Kiper Releases Initial Big Board for 2014

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by SMadison29, May 8, 2013.

  1. SMadison29

    SMadison29 What Sherman aspires to be

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    01 - DE Jadeveon Clowney, South Carolina
    02 - QB Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville
    03 - WR Marqise Lee, USC
    04 - LT Cyrus Kouandjio, Alabama
    05 - OLB Anthony Barr, UCLA
    06 - LT Jake Matthews, Texas A&M
    07 - NT Louis Nix, Notre Dame
    08 - LT Taylor Lewan, Michigan
    09 - CB Bradley Roby, Ohio St
    10 - CB Loucheiz Purifoy, Florida
    11 - LT Anthonio Richardson, Tennessee
    12 - OLB Adrian Hubbard, Alabama
    13 - DT Stephon Tuitt, Notre Dame
    14 - CB Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, Oregon
    15 - DT Timmy Jernigan, Florida St
    16 - WR Sammy Watkins, Clemson
    17 - OLB CJ Mosley, Alabama
    18 - WR Mike Evans, Texas A&M
    19 - LT Cameron Erving, Florida St
    20 - DE Aaron Lynch, USF
    21 - QB Tajh Boyd, Clemson
    22 - DT Anthony Johnson, LSU
    23 - OLB Kyle Van Noy, BYU
    24 - TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins, Washington
    25 - QB Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M

    This year he gives us an additional 25:
    26 - OLB Ryan Shazier, Ohio St
    27 - WR Brandon Coleman, Rutgers
    28 - Ath De'Anthony Thomas, Oregon
    29 - G David Yankey, Stanford
    30 - FS Ha'Sean Clinton-Dix, Alabama
    31 - DE Scott Crichton, Oregon St
    32 - OLB Christian Jones, Florida St
    33 - QB Marcus Mariota, Oregon
    34 - RB Lache Seastrunk, Baylor
    35 - OLB Jeremiah Attaochu, Georgia Tech
    36 - CB Aaron Colvin, Oklahoma
    37 - RB Ka'Deem Carey, Arizona
    38 - DE Jackson Jeffcoat, Texas
    39 - ILB Trey DePriest, Alabama
    40 - FS Ed Reynolds, Stanford
    41 - QB AJ McCarron, Alabama
    42 - DE Morgan Breslin, USC
    43 - NT Daniel McCuller, Tennessee
    44 - CB Jason Verrett, TCU
    45 - ILB Yawin Smallwood, UConn
    46 - DT Deandre Coleman, Cal
    47 - CB Quandre Diggs, Texas
    48 - WR Jordan Matthews, Vanderbilt
    49 - G Gabe Jackson, Mississippi St
    50 - ILB AJ Johnson, Tennessee

    ---------- Post added at 11:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 PM ----------

    Last year's initial Big Board only featured seven players that were drafted in the top 25 & one (Johnny Adams) that was not drafted. Which player in the initial 2014 Big Board above is most likely to go undrafted (& not because they returned to school)?

    01 - QB Matt Barkley, USC
    02 - OLB Jarvis Jones, Georgia
    03 - OLB Barkevious Mingo, LSU
    04 - QB Logan Thomas, Virginia Tech
    05 - DE Sam Montgomery, LSU
    06 - RT DJ Fluker, Alabama
    07 - WR Robert Woods, USC
    08 - CB David Amerson, NC State
    09 - DT Star Lotulelei, Utah
    10 - ILB Manti Te'o, Notre Dame
    11 - DT Johnathan Hankins, Ohio St
    12 - LT Taylor Lewan, Michigan
    13 - QB Tyler Wilson, Arkansas
    14 - CB Johnny Adams, Michigan St
    15 - DT Kawann Short, Purdue
    16 - LT Luke Joeckel, Texas A&M
    17 - DE William Gholston, Michigan St
    18 - WR Keenan Allen, Cal
    19 - RB Marcus Lattimore, South Carolina
    20 - CB Xavier Rhodes, Florida St
    21 - RB Le'Veon Bell, Michigan St
    22 - CB Johnthan Banks, Mississippi St
    23 - DE Corey Lemonier, Auburn
    24 - RT Ricky Wagner, Wisconsin
    25 - TE Tyler Eifert, Notre Dame
     
  2. EJay

    EJay Scout Team

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    There are several among his top 10 that I will be shocked if they aren't actually drafted there come next April. Clowney, Lee and Matthews chief among them. If they are accepting bets in Vegas already regarding next year's #1 pick, I'd more than confidently throw a nice chunk of change down on Clowney. Barring injury or unexpectedly deciding not to declare for the draft, I don't see any way that guy doesn't go #1
     
  3. LouPhinFan

    LouPhinFan It's ok to say "I don't know". Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Unless a team sits at #1 that needs a franchise passer and then Bridgewater would be the pick. I would sprint that card up to the podium to make that selection if I were that team.
     
  4. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Daniel McCullers is not going that high. I'll guarantee it. He's a 370+ pound defensive tackle with no pass rush ability whatsoever.

    Attaochu isn't an elite enough athlete to go that high. One of the plays that has always stuck out in my mind for Attaochu is the one during his sophomore season where he couldn't get Logan Thomas on the ground and started throwing punches. I think he might be better off at ILB anyway.

    Ekpre-Olomu is a 5'9" corner that might be better off at safety, but he's easily the best prospect out of these three. I have him as a 2nd/3rd rounder right now if he were to come out.

    I pointed out in one of the pass rusher threads in here about a year ago to watch out for Adrian Hubbard in the future. He's a lot like Mingo except bigger.
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    There's something still missing in Aaron Lynch's game that makes me think being top 20 heading into the 2014 Draft is premature. The big problem I saw in Notre Dame was how he got off the ball. He gets too upright. At the spring game he still had the same problem except now he added an annoying jack start to his issues. He's also lost a lot of weight (it looks like, to me) and he no longer has that outside/inside flexibility he had at Notre Dame. Now he's more of an outside up/down guy. We'll see on him. I was hoping to see more than what I ended up seeing at the spring game.
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I see Mel has Mike Evans right up there with Marquise Lee and Sammy Watkins. That's deserved. The big question on Evans is going to be pure speed. If he's a 4.50 guy then he's fast enough. But if he's more of a 4.60 guy then he's not. We all can see the athleticism, the ups, the ability to move, etc. And of course he's a physically strong beast with really good hands, like a Brandon Marshall that way. What remains to be seen is whether he can work on his speed. He's trying to work on it. That was one of his goals this off season, to work on his speed. On tape he ran away from some guys but those guys run in the 4.6's and 4.7's. He needs to run away from guys that run in the 4.5's.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I would also rank Jake Matthews above Cyrus Kouandjio for the moment. I like Kouandjio a lot and you can't watch Alabama tape without noticing that big guy dominating at left tackle. But he's got to work on his physical shape and mobility. You can't dominate the next level at LEFT tackle the way he's dominating this level, if you don't end up becoming an athlete and not just a people mover. Just ask Jeff Otah.

    There are times I really love Christian Jones and there are times I really think he's overrated.

    I still consider Jackson Jeffcoat to be very overrated. But we'll see how he progresses in his final year. Coming off the injury, I can't imagine he ends up impressing me a whole lot more.

    Will Sutton is conspicuous in his absence. Mel must not be a fan of his size.

    If he dings Sutton on size, it's also understandable to ding Aaron Donald on size. But mark me on this, Aaron Donald is going to be a very good NFL player. I've been waiting for a guy that ACTUALLY reminds me of Geno Atkins, whom I really loved coming out in 2010 and I thought should've been a 1st rounder. Every year since then (because it was obvious what a great pick Atkins was going to be, as early as his first preseason), I keep looking for a guy that reminds me of him. I think Aaron Donald might be that guy.
     
  8. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Aaron Donald has been a good football player for a long time. I started putting him in my underrated underclassman thread in this forum right after his sophomore season. I think he'd have already declared if he had more prototypical size. He probably doesn't get high grades by the committee because they can't really project him anywhere at 6'0", 275 pounds. Geno Atkins at 6'1", 295 was easier to project as a 3-technique at the very least.

    Donald is in the same boat with a kid like Roosevelt Nix who I've also been extremely high on since his freshman season when he absolutely dominated as a true freshman at Kent St. He lines up at DT at 5'11", 245 pounds and it's just difficult to project him to a position despite his dominance on the field. I watched him destroy Bama's offensive line as a sophomore in a game where Kent St. was getting blown out of the stadium. I don't care what game you watch of him, he cannot be blocked. Period.

    This kid has racked up 50 TFL's, 19.5 sacks, and forced 10 fumbles over the past 3 seasons despite all the attention being put squarely on him. Nix and Donald are two of the premier cases of players getting overlooked due to measurables. The league can't project you accurately if you don't fit the prototype.
     
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  9. Dogbone34

    Dogbone34 cowboy surfer

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    Marqise Lee is insane

    I would throw away draft picks to get him in Miami
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Geno Atkins may have showed up to the Combine weighing 293 lbs but I can guarantee he didn't play at that. I thought he had to be 285 max, and I could've swore I'd actually seen listings at 275 before. His Georgia Track & Field media guide listing was 282 lbs. His 2009 football roster listing said 287 lbs. He initially showed up at Georgia listed at 270 lbs. When he came out, pre-Combine his draft profiles said 286 lbs and Pro Football Reference still lists that as his weight.

    I don't think there's a grocery bag's worth of difference between Atkins and Donald in terms of size. Maybe an inch shorter (6013 vs. 6003?) and maybe 5 or 10 lbs lighter. Donald was listed at 275 in 2012 but who knows how he'll be listed in 2013. Could be 285 at that point. I expect by the time he works out at the Combine he'll be up to the 290 range just like Atkins was.

    I wouldn't quite put Roosevelt Nix in the same boat. I understand he's also undersized and good, but to me putting Aaron Donald in the same boat as 5'11" and 245 lbs Roosevelt Nix is like putting Ray Rice as an undersized tailback in the same boat as Darren Sproles.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 9, 2013
  11. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    He's in the same boat in terms of being overlooked due to size. Whether you're willing to put him there or not... they're both in it.
     
  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    And it's the same boat that Geno Atkins was in, one big reason (the other is sickle cell) he went 4th round instead of 1st round. That's what I'm saying. If Roosevelt Nix and Aaron Donald (and Will Sutton) are sharing a boat together, Geno Atkins is keeping them company.
     
  13. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    I think Nix would probably be playing a more coventional DE's role if he played in a major conference where bigger kids would automatically get the nod along the interior. He reminds of Elvis Dumerville coming out of Louisville... another kid that was overlooked due to size (5'11", 250). Dumerville was at least afforded the opportunity to avoid having to line up at defensive tackle.
     
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I hope Roosevelt Nix gets a lot more time at defensive end. When he lines up at tackle he's only making plays one way, and when he's unable to do that he's getting blasted off the planet. When he lines up on the wing, he does some interesting things that make me wonder if he could translate at that position.

    With him I worry that the puzzle pieces just don't fit together. He's got natural advantages owing to his size when he lines up on the interior. He's 50 or 60 lbs lighter and 5 inches shorter than all these interior offensive linemen, who are generally the worst athletes in college football. Of course he's going to be quicker than them and if in the scheme you don't mind your defensive tackle taking himself out of the gap defense on a consistent basis, he's going to be able to get in the backfield and make plays. Because of some unique qualities that he possesses, but mostly because of the level of competition, these poor athletes aren't able to consistently use their size and strength advantage in order to nullify his speed advantage. But the next level is going to be a different landscape. If those guys are athletic enough to allow their size/strength advantages to nullify his speed advantage, he's toast. Not even rosterable as an interior player. Very slippery slope that way, IMO.

    So then you get to the question whether he can be a defensive end. If you took all his tape and sliced out 90 percent of it (making up these numbers as I go, btw), and kept just the 10 percent where he's lined up out on the edge...is that the tape of a compelling defensive end prospect a la Elvis Dumervil? You probably recall that Elvis may have been short, but he had really long arms and a good frame. And all those TFLs he had (I remember he had something like 23+ in his final year), they came from End. Point is, if you just straight up cut out every play he's ever made on the interior, and not even looked at it...is this a player that looks interesting at End?
     
  15. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    It's the fact that he plays beyond what's asked of him that reminds me of Dumerville. The sign of a player that plays beyond what's asked of him is found in the number of turnovers they force. Dumerville's most unique quality at Louisville was that he forced an enormous amount of fumbles once he got in the backfield. It's the sign of a finisher. This is what Nix does.

    I see guys all the time that can't do this, even when most of the work has already been done for 'em. They'd rather stand around and watch.

    The DE spot for Nix is a complete projection since that's not what he's asked to do. However, it's what he's going to have to do. He's obviously not going to play DT in the NFL at 245 pounds.

    I completely disagree with your evaluation that he only makes plays one way. As a matter of fact, if your insinuation is that Aaron Donald is even more talented, I'll take that bet every time.

    Nix has already stood up against Bama's offensive line. He dominated it by himself as a sophomore. I watched him plug a goalline stand against Kentucky's offensive line.... a guy named Larry Warford. Nix stands out the most when he's faced against the better competition.

    Yeah, he's a rosterable player.
     
  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I undersold Dumervil. He did indeed have 23 TFLs as I recalled, but 21 of them were Sacks. I'd forgotten about that. Incredible. And indeed I believe he had 11 forced fumbles. That's a pretty good ratio (2:1). Normal ratio of sacks to fumbles is about 4:1.

    I said that if you're plugging Roosevelt Nix in at defensive TACKLE there's a good chance he's unrosterable. Defensive end is a question mark. A "complete projection" as you put it.

    And if your insinuation is that Roosevelt Nix is more valuable than Aaron Donald, I'll take that bet every time.
     
  17. Buddy

    Buddy Right Wing Nut Job Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    What are your thoughts on Sammy Watkins? Does he fit our system? I really like him and liked De Andre Hopkins as well.
     
  18. SMadison29

    SMadison29 What Sherman aspires to be

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    Wouldn't they all be better served as being strong side DEs or 3-4 DEs? I see lack of height as a hindrance for a DT pushing the pocket trying to clog the passing lanes.
     
  19. SMadison29

    SMadison29 What Sherman aspires to be

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    I'm gonna go with Johnny Manziel. He's nowhere near an NFL QB or even a good prospect at this point in his career.

    Negatives:
    - below average arm strength
    - poor footwork - doesn't step into his throws in the pocket, throws flat footed, front foot isn't pointed in the direction he's throwing
    - doesn't/can't throw downfield
    - questionable pocket awareness - sometimes he looks like he has good pocket awareness but the majority of the time he gets happy feet & bails out too early
    - accuracy issues - throws behind his receivers running slants & floats high passes to receivers on the edges
    - plays strictly out of the shotgun
    - through his actions he comes off as entitled & a premadonna
    - the Tim Tebow effect - the cult following which will only get bigger but probably not as big as Tebow's will cause teams to shy away because they don't want to deal with the headache from the media & fans

    Positives:
    - great improvisation skills
    - keeps his eyes downfield when he's running around in the backfield
    - his elusiveness.

    Great college player but he's about reached his ceiling.
     
  20. CO-Gator

    CO-Gator They all float down here.

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    Hey Louchiez Purifoy. Good athlete. Guy could very well end up being the return guy we all hoped Andre Debose would be before he flopped. If he can polish his game at CB he could absolutely be a 1st round talent. He plays a little offense too. He's a little bit like Devin Hester was at Miami.
     
  21. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase

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    Sammy Watkins needs to be a Phin.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Geno Atkins is one of the three best performing defensive players in all of football. I think he's fine where he is.

    You could make an argument that Donald should go out to a Closed End or 5-Technique position on base downs. I think he might be special enough to play on the inside on base downs though.
     
  23. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    I'm a bit shocked Oregon TE Colt Lyerla isn't in there. I rate him as a late 1st when it's all said and done.
     
  24. Fin_Frenzy_84

    Fin_Frenzy_84 Starter

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    I want another receiver next year. Give me Coleman,Evans,Lee,Watkins, or Matthews
     
  25. Fin_Frenzy_84

    Fin_Frenzy_84 Starter

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    I cant stand cyrus because of what he done to Auburn on NSD but he is a monster
     
  26. Fin_Frenzy_84

    Fin_Frenzy_84 Starter

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    Barr and Tuitt would be nice also. Barr if we let Misi walk or Tuitt if one of Starks or Soliai walks
     
  27. utahphinsfan

    utahphinsfan Puck Fitzburgh

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    I don't disagree w/ the top 3.

    The only name I don't see is Yeldon the RB from Bama.

    Yeldon IMO has the potential to be better than Richardson, Ingram, & Lacy.
     
  28. utahphinsfan

    utahphinsfan Puck Fitzburgh

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    I'm Ducks WR Josh Huff isn't on the list.

    I'd prefer Huff. Keep an eye on Dres Anderson from the real U here in SLC.
     
  29. SMadison29

    SMadison29 What Sherman aspires to be

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    Yeldon isn't on the list because he's not draft eligible.
     
  30. Fin_Frenzy_84

    Fin_Frenzy_84 Starter

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    Yeldon will be a sophomore this coming up season
     
  31. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    In what way? Nix is more valuable to his team's success without a doubt. Kent St. was a top 10 defense his freshman season because he was that dominant of a player. They're not a top 20 defense 2 of the last 3 years without Roosevelt Nix.

    Aaron Donald has a tremendous impact for his team defensively, although Nix's impact for his team is simply more significant. Kent St. can't recruit like Pittsburgh.

    Khalil Mack is the only other defender in the MAC who has that type of impact for his team.
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    You just put Aaron Donald in your Tier 1 of defensive tackles while Roosevelt Nix remains in your Tier 2. What exactly are you disagreeing with here? Or are you being disagreeable for its own sake?
     
  33. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    You have to provide something for me to disagree with first. I just asked you what you meant by Donald being more valuable. That has several different potential meanings... I picked the one that made the most sense. If that's not how you meant it, then clarify.

    Furthermore, value to your team doesn't necessarily mean more talented, nor does it automatically mean less talented. Jordan Rodgers was more valuable to his team's success than Justin Hunter was to his.... but I graded Hunter as a better prospect. Obviously.

    The point is that I have Donald and Nix graded fairly closely in terms of prospects than you do. Just let it be. We'll find out.
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    For the record I meant valuable as in he carries more value for the NFL. I do consider that a proxy for 'talented'.
     
  35. Roman529

    Roman529 Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew

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    Louis Nix would be a nice addition especially if Starks leaves.

    [video=youtube;9Xgv6-G8SUk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xgv6-G8SUk[/video]
     
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  36. PaFinFan1306

    PaFinFan1306 Rookie

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    Kiper is an idiot
     
  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    This is relevant in here.

    http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...y-excited-about-the-maturation-of-aaron-lynch

    Willie Taggart is selling Aaron Lynch pretty hard. I'd accuse him of just looking out for his own, but Willie's getting a reputation here for being a pretty straight shooter. He didn't have to turn this entire Q&A into one big Aaron Lynch commercial. He chose to do that.

    He alludes to many of the same things I've noted about Lynch. At Notre Dame, the reputation off the field wasn't good. It also wasn't good here at USF in 2012 with the mandated year off. Taggart heard all about that. But he seems to have gotten through to the kid a little bit.

    As I said, he looked to me like he'd lost a ton of weight. He went from 270 lbs at Notre Dame on the film there to this spring playing at around 235 lbs. That's a big difference and it's a testament to his lack of focus during his year off. At Notre Dame he was a guy that was outside/inside flexible. So far from what I've seen at South Florida he looks more like a guy that is up/down flexible but I haven't seen the inside use yet. Perhaps they're waiting for him to get back up to between 250 and 260 lbs to start using him inside a little more.

    At Notre Dame I didn't like the consistency in how he came off the ball, got too upright a lot. I still saw that problem during spring ball. They also rushed him from an up position and it seemed like he was kind of jack-starting a little from an up position. He needs to improve these things and generally play with better pad level.

    But the fact that Taggart is selling him so hard off the field from a character and work ethic standpoint is a great sign. If he keeps it up, it would remove probably the largest overhang on his draft stock.
     
  38. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Taggart is one of the most underrated coaches in the country. I talked about this some last year. I even mentioned him as the guy that Kentucky should've gone after. He's an SEC caliber coach on the rise. He stresses the fundamentals and is extremely detail oriented. His teams play a disciplined and physical brand of football. He'll have USF winning Big-East titles in 2 years. Falls in line with a Charlie Strong type.

    I actually read some of his notes from coach's meetings he had with his staff in preperation for the Alabama game last year. I was extremely impressed with his ability to diagnose the weaknesses on film regarding some of the talent on our offensive line. It's not a coincidence that Quanterus Smith had 3 sacks vs. Fluker. A lot of that is credited to Coach Taggart, and I'll leave it at that.

    As for Lynch, he'll be a top 15 pick if he declares early. If he declares, it's because he had a tremendous season to begin with. If he had a tremendous season, he's going to be drafted high based purely on his immense talent. Maturing a little bit between the ears typically goes a long ways for kids this talented. He's in my 2nd tier of underclassman pass rushers even with the off-field issues... .and that's not really a knock. Clowney is just that special. Lynch is a freak, and was a good player early for Notre Dame. There ain't many like him that I see in college football.
     
  39. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Just for reference, get ready for a kid from Missouri by the name of Kony Ealy. He's one of the few that I see in Aaron Lynch's class in terms of size, length, speed, explosiveness, and insane athletic ability. The college football world doesn't know who this kid is yet, but they will in about 5 months. This is a kid that looks like he's ready to explode the way I figured Carradine would last year.

    Just watch some film if you get a chance. I think you'll like what you see.
     
  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I've actually been looking pretty hard for as much as I can of Kony specifically because of some things I'd heard. I've got several games on the way. Thanks for the heads up.
     

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