LeBron James...PROOF that Loyalty DOESN'T MATTER...

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by JCane, Jul 21, 2010.

  1. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Well this is certainly interesting lol. And it supports everything that I've been saying in recent weeks about how loyalty doesn't matter and that he made the right decision. All of this "legacy" crap you dudes are spewing is hot garbage.

    Harris Interactive Poll conducts professional polls with market research on a variety of topics. They research politics, entertainment, sports; you name it. These are polls that YOU answer.

    So Harris Interactive conducts a poll on the most popular athletes of today. The newest poll was conducted from June 14 - 21 (please remember these dates). There are FOUR names that stick out here. Tiger Woods, Kobe Bryant, Brett Favre, and LeBron James. Below is where they rank today and the number in parentheses is the previous years ranking.

    1. Tiger Woods (1)
    1. Kobe Bryant (4)
    4. Brett Favre (9)
    6. LeBron James (3)

    Well, that's certainly interesting wouldn't you say? Tiger Woods, after all of the cheating and the messy divorce remains on top tied with Kobe Bryant, who also had his image tarnished by a rape scandal that turned fairly messy. Both of these guys are on top of their respective sports.

    Look at the jump Brett Favre made. Brett jumps FIVE spots after going to a division rival and dragging everyone kicking and screaming thru his own version of "The Decision." We all hate Brett Favre right? We're sick of hearing about this clown, right? Apparently not. Talk about "disloyal." According to many of you, he's the epitome of disloyal. He holds the fans, team, and media hostage with his Hamlet-like decision making skills. But somehow he jumped five spots to #4. How is this possible when we all hate him? Maybe we don't hate Brett Favre like we think we do.

    Now, LeBron James fell a few spots to #6. Why? Well, this poll was taken in the middle of June so it can't be because he was "disloyal" and left Cleveland. He was still in Cleveland. This poll was conducted shortly after Cleveland was bounced from the playoffs by Boston.

    "But LeBron was going to leave Cleveland so that affected people's opinion of him and THAT is why he dropped."

    Nope. Try again. It was largely believed that he was going to stay in Cleveland.

    Didn't Kobe quit on the Lakers a couple of times? Remember that game against the Suns where he took one shot in the first half? Threatened to leave Los Angeles before they acquired Gasol? Didn't Kobe do the same thing LeBron did? Only in the end LeBron left and Kobe stayed. But then again we're talking about the city of Los Angeles v. the city of Cleveland.

    The point of all of this, if loyalty mattered Brett Favre wouldn't be flying up this list. Winning cures all and people look at you differently. LeBron did the right thing. LeBron was loyal to LeBron and that's what matters in the end.

    http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=sbd.main&ArticleID=140845
     
  2. Ferretsquig

    Ferretsquig Perennial All-Pro

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    The majority of people aren't sports fans. Popular athletes are those that transcend sports and make their way into the general public's consciousness. It doesn't have much to do with what they do in the arena, more the image they build outside it.
     
  3. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Doesn't matter if they're sports fans or not. Point is, the individuals polled KNOW who these people are. The fact that the poll was conducted in mid-June BEFORE LeBron left Cleveland leads to one conclusion: the individuals polled understand that he hasn't won anything of significance. Everyone KNOWS about Tiger Woods and KNOWS about his infidelity and his divorce. There's no way you can't know about it.

    So if people aren't bothered by cheating and messy divorces, then what matters must be winning, correct?

    Tiger Woods: WINNER
    Kobe Bryant: WINNER
    Derek Jeter: WINNER
    Brett Favre: WINNER
    LeBron James: ...
     
  4. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    All of these names are favorites among frontrunners, not fans. Basketball has the most frontrunner "fans" of any sport, by far. Baseball comes second. Tiger Woods is named because he's the only golfer most can name and he has the Nike factor. They follow winning teams only, or follow individual players.

    Loyalty absolutely matters among team fans. Of course, that doesn't mean anything to individual players, especially basketball players.
     
  5. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Fact is, more people care about winners than guys who stick around and lose. Of course loyalty matters to team fans. But fans themselves are blindly loyal and sell their souls.
     
  6. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    What sucks for me as a fan of the sport (but definitely not the NBA as a whole) is that you can never add WINNER next to name like the others if the Heat do it. It will read more like:

    LeBron James: WINNER* (with help)
    or
    LeBron James: WINNER* (on Wade's team)

    As far as I've seen, he hasn't shown he can LEAD a team to a championship like the others on that list, except Tiger of course, and now it looks like he never will. That's a failure, given all the hype, IMO.
     
  7. Ferretsquig

    Ferretsquig Perennial All-Pro

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    No doubt winning does impact popularity in some ways......Brees without the superbowl win isn't known by many. I just think other things are far more important. Brady has one of his worst seasons record wise and is more popular this year than last. I'm guessing it has more to do with the supermodels and talk shows than football. Earnhardt was fortunate enough to inherit a nice name and face. Most of the female athletes are better known by males for what they did with their shirts off than on. The iconic moment in Mia Hamm's career was ripping off her shirt and displaying her lovely nike sports bra. How many people know or care who she was playing against and whether they won or lost the game?
     
  8. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    LeBron has proven he can do it. He carried that scrub team on his back all the way to the Finals one year. Pretty impressive when you look at that Cleveland roster. It's pitiful. I never thought LeBron would even sniff the Finals in Cleveland because he was never going to get help.

    LeBron James*? Come on.

    Jordan had Pippen. Magic Johnson inherited Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and James Worthy and the rest of their DREAM TEAM. Bird got to run with McHale and Parrish. Kobe had Shaq and Shaq had Kobe. Wade had Shaq. What has Wade accomplished since Shaq left? After Shaq left Los Angeles Kobe got LESS done than LeBron did in Cleveland and Kobe had better players around him than LeBron ever did in Cleveland.

    Charles Barkley spent his entire career alone. Never won ****. I bet Barkley wishes he would have jumped ship in Philadelphia years before he did. Same for Allen Iverson. I love how Magic Johnson is criticizing LeBron James but LOVED it when Karl Malone ran to the Lakers lol. You can't win alone. You need another superstar or A-type player to help you. And people can't say that Kobe didn't have a GREAT supporting cast around him after Shaq. Kobe shot 6 - 24 AT HOME in game seven this season against the Boston Celtics with the "Big Three." Without Gasol, Kobe isn't winning ****. Kobe needed Artest to win this season.

    Why is LeBron James the only player who HAS to win alone to be vindicated? Why? Anytime we speak of Charles Barkley or Allen Iverson or God forbid I mention Dan Marino here, these guys get a pass because they didn't have any help. Dan Gilber COULD NOT bring help to Cleveland. He never did and he never would have...well, he would have had the talent been willing to go play in Cleveland. LeBron knew it wasn't going to happen and it's better to get out now rather than to waste another five years in Cleveland and then hit the market as a 32 year-old free agent coming down the back nine of your career trying to validate your place in the league.
     
  9. PhinsPhan11

    PhinsPhan11 Phins & Philly Sports

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    You're right, Lebron will always be remembered like that if he wins a championship. It'll be he won, but he had help.
     
  10. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    Tiger Woods: WINNER
    Kobe Bryant: WINNER
    Derek Jeter: WINNER
    Brett Favre: WINNER
    LeBron James: LOSER

    :D
     
  11. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Go thru the past NBA champions and bring me the one guy who didn't have a lot of help surrounding him. Bring me the one guy who won a title with a similar team to LeBron's. Show me.
     
  12. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    Michael and Chi 1991-1993, Duncan and SA 1999, Hakeem and Hou 1994, Kobe and LA last year, ...
     
  13. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Scottie Pippen. Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli. Kobe had Gasol who was an All-Star without Kobe. Hakeem is about the only legitimate one you can really point to BUT that Houston team had an extremely deep bench. Sam Cassell was the sixth man for Christ's sake. And Otis Thorpe was beasting on dudes back then. This was also before the hand-check rule so the big men were still dominating. So Hakeem and Thorpe were just BRUTAL on teams. Not to mention Jordan was no where to be found.

    Of the ones you mentioned, Jordan is one with the most help.
     
  14. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    By the way, you're saying that the Bulls of Jordan's time, the Spurs, the Lakers and Rockets were similar to the Cavs lol. So with all of those teams there was one superstar with a bunch of scrubs lol.
     
  15. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    Early Pippen was considered soft and he didn't have much else outside of Pippen.

    Parker and Ginoboli were not on that '99 SA team. he had an old, declinging David Robinson, Sean Elliott, Avery Johnson, Mario Elie, etc...

    Cassell was a rookie who played 17 mins a game. It was hakeem and a bunch of role players. Otis Thorpe was nothing more than an average player.
     
  16. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    Yeah. One superstar and some good role players around them. Considering the NBA hasn't seen a trulyt great team in a long time a team w/ Lebron in his prime and the collection of players around him should have been able to win a title.
     
  17. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    The Jordan teams were great. As were the Spurs. You can't say that they aren't great because those were dynasties. A dynasty is greatness. The Lakers are on the verge of another one. Yes, they are great teams. You can't call Scottie Pippen, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli role players when they've all been all-stars multiple times.

    It's time to find your way back now lol...

    http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
     
  18. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    The Jordan Bulls were a dynasty b/c of Jordan. The 2nd 3-peat they had alot more talent but the 1st 3-peat did not but he was at his peak and no one could stop him or that team b/c of him/

    The Spurs in '99 had marginal talent and a superstar in Duncan. That team would win again until 2003 so that was not a dynasty team.


    This Laker team is turning itno a dynasty- more b/c of how bad the rest of the league is. This is NOT a great team.
     
  19. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    But Cleveland IS a great team right lol? I mean with Jamario Moon and Mo Williams and all of those other stars.

    The Spurs won four titles in under ten years. That's pretty dynasty-esque. Same coach, same superstars for the most part. That David Robinson guy was just marginal I guess lol. He was on that list of 50 greats as well. Marginal. Gotcha.
     
  20. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    Cleveland will be a playoff team.

    From '03-'07 the Spurs had a dynasty, '99 isn't included. you cannot go 4 years btw titles and claim a dynasty.

    David Robinson was not a great player by the time 1999 rolled around. he was as much a star as Shaq was for Cle last year.
     
  21. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I really hope you're drunk this morning.

    :lol:

    You're saying Cleveland will be a playoff team this season without LeBron James?
     
  22. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    David Robinson averaged 15 and 10 in 1999 lmao. That's better than average. 2.5 blocks a game? Dude...he played three more years after that. Hell, he could come back TODAY and be more effective than Shaq was this past season.
     
  23. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    I don't drink and yes I expect Cle will be a playoff team. We'll see what moves they make but as of today I think they'll compete for a playoff spot.

    15 and 10 is a top 50 player season? Shaq averaged 12 and 7 this past season, that's not much different and considering Shaq played 8 mins less per game it can be argued he had as good of a season. Robinson averaged 2 pts per min played as did Shaq(Robinson was % pts higher). Robinson averaged 3.2 rebs per min, Shaq 3.5.


    He could come back today and be more effective? In david's final season he averaged 8.5 pts and 8 rebs averaging 3 more mins than Shaq this year who averaged 12 and 7.
     
  24. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Cleveland isn't making the playoffs. You and I are on.

    And yeah, Robinson was named one of the NBA's 50 greatest of all-time. Is that really hard to believe? Shaq was as well. Robinson was still a very good player in 1999. He was every bit as good as Shaq in 2006. Shaq was lazy as **** when he was in Miami.
     
  25. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    W/o Shaq ansd the refs treating Wade better than they ever treated Jordan Miami doesn't win that title in '06 and Robinson '99 was not anywhere close to Shaq '06.
     
  26. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Here we go.

    Anothe "blame the ref" guy.

    Classic.

    :lol:
     
  27. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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  28. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    That was some of the worst officiating I have ever seen. They out Wade on the FT line if you came w/in 5 feet of him. It made duke games look fairly officiated.
     
  29. PhinsPhan11

    PhinsPhan11 Phins & Philly Sports

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    If Cleveland makes the playoffs without Lebron this year, I would be really surprised.
     
  30. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    WHY?? They're such a good team though according to all of you! LeBron couldn't carry them to the promised land so obviously the rest of those guys had a lot to do with the best record in the league right?

    :lol:

    You guys make up those minds of yours.
     
  31. PhinsPhan11

    PhinsPhan11 Phins & Philly Sports

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    They were a good team only because of Lebron. Without him they will struggle this year. Lebron was the Cavs so they will be bad.
     
  32. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    So then we all agree that no matter what, LeBron had no chance of ever winning **** in Cleveland.
     
  33. PhinsPhan11

    PhinsPhan11 Phins & Philly Sports

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    Exactly, he had no chance of winning anything in Cleveland.
     
  34. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Now if we could only get nyjunc to see the light.

    :lol:
     
  35. Can we win a SB

    Can we win a SB Pro Bowler

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    The way I see it, CLE may have tried to bring "talent" in to supposedly help LBJ. If you look back they brought in Moe Williams, West, Jamison, and Varejao. However, these moves didn't pan out how the front office envisioned. Was it sole decisions made by the front office or did James have a part in who to bring me. If it's just front office they are most to blame. Those moves and deals they gave out were horrendous, $55-60 million to Varejao?! That is stupid. Those types of deals might have forced LBJ out because they were only about6-8 million dollars under the cap without resigning James, so obviously they couldn't have brought in true talent. Would we be even here if Dan Gilbert listened to LBJ and those reports of trading for Stoudemire and not Jamison? I don't think he would have left. He did what was right for him. For god sakes he has averaged about 28-29 ppg for his career, he carried his team and city.
     
  36. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    It's like I said, Cleveland is a BAD sports town and it's not an attractive place for millionaires to live. If I hand you a million dollars, start making a list of cities you're going to buy a home in and rank them and let me know where Cleveland falls. Mo Williams, Delonte West, Antwan Jamison, etc., you gotta consider the number of guys who wanted to come to Cleveland and my guess is that the list is very short. Even if Cleveland trades for Amar'e instead of Jamison, Amar'e still probably leaves Cleveland for New York. He goes to a major market with a former coach.
     
  37. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    If he played like a superstar when it mattered he'd have a ring by now.
     
  38. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Just gonna leave this here so that we can see what LeBron was working with in Cleveland.

    Zero first team All-Rookie Selections
    Two All-Star game appearances (Mo Williams, Zydrunas llgauskas)
    Zero All-NBA first team selection
    Zero All-NBA second team selections
    Zero All-Defensive first team selections
    One All-Defensive second team selection (Anderson Vareajo)
    Zero MVP Awards


    And here's what Magic got to work with.

    Two first team All-Rookie selections (Byron Scott, James Worthy)
    11 All-Star appearances (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar seven times, Norm Nixon twice, Worthy, Jamaal Wilkes)
    Four All-NBA first team selections (Abdul-Jabbar)
    Two All-NBA second team selections (Abdul-Jabbar)
    Five All-Defensive first team selections (Michael Cooper three times, Abdul-Jabbar twice)
    Four All-Defensive second team selections (Cooper three times, Abdul-Jabbar once)
    One MVP Award (Abdul-Jabbar)
    In addition, Abdul-Jabbar, Worthy, Wilkes, Nixon, and Cooper all got votes for MVP at one point in time or the other during Magic's first seven years, and Cooper won defensive player of the year in Johnson's eighth year.
     
  39. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    Antawn Jamison has made multiple AS games and obviously Shaq is a future HOFer.

    Ilgauskas was a 1st team all rookie selection

    Moon was 2nd team all rookie

    Anthony Parker is 4th in active 3P shooting %

    Varejao was 2nd team all defense once

    This was just this year's team.




    Who is comparing this Cle team to what magic had? and back then there were legitimately great teams, where have those teams been in recent years? he lost to an aging Celtic team that has one championship and a year ago he lost to orlando who has never won a title. Again, we haven't seen truly great teams win championships for a long time now and he has had teams more than good enough to at the very least get to the Finals the last 2 years(and I think good enough to win it all if he played liked he was capable).
     
  40. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    Let's compare the talent of this past Cle team w/ the '91 Bulls:

    '10 Cle besides Lebron:
    20 AS game apps(even taking out Shaq they have 5 former AS game apps)
    1 future HOFer
    4 players on all rookie teams
    2 former all D members
    1 former NBA MVP


    '91 Bulls besides Jordan:
    2 All Star Games
    2 Rookie team members
    1 all D
     

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