:rolleyes2: I get that you guys will make excuses for Lebron now that he is on the Heat but thefacts are he had more than enough talent around him to make a run w/ no great teams in this league. he wasn't facing the 80s lakers, Celtics, Sixers or Pistons.
LeBron James...PROOF that Loyalty DOESN'T MATTER...
- Thread starter JCane
- Start date
:rolleyes2: I get that you guys will make excuses for Lebron now that he is on the Heat but thefacts are he had more than enough talent around him to make a run w/ no great teams in this league. he wasn't facing the 80s lakers, Celtics, Sixers or Pistons.
Ferretsquig
Perennial All-Pro
I thought he had a pretty miserable supporting cast and am pretty sure I'll be proven right when I see that cast try to make it on its own this season. And I think I'm with the vast majority on that one, but we'll see.
I saw a pretty good team play in Chicago after Jordan bailed for the first time......I wasn't watching basketball that much when Magic left but that supporting cast was pretty good as well. This season I expect a 20 win team in Cleveland.....seeing them try to play without Lebron last year was a painful sight. Granted they'll be better with an offseason to learn how to play together....still its hard to see them winning.
That's why they play the games.....we'll know soon enough.
I saw a pretty good team play in Chicago after Jordan bailed for the first time......I wasn't watching basketball that much when Magic left but that supporting cast was pretty good as well. This season I expect a 20 win team in Cleveland.....seeing them try to play without Lebron last year was a painful sight. Granted they'll be better with an offseason to learn how to play together....still its hard to see them winning.
That's why they play the games.....we'll know soon enough.
We'll see, I think that miserable supporting cast will be in the hunt for the postseason.
That Chi team had come off 3 championships and knew how to win, in 1995 before Jordan came back they were MUCH worse than they were in 1994(plus they did get Kukoc for '94 and he wasn't on the titile teams). The cast they had in Chi for the first 3 peat was not great, the 2nd 3 peat they had alot more talent but the first one they did not.
I know the cast wasn't great around Lebron but it wasn't as bad as people are making it out to be. If Lebron steps up they win, it's as simple as that.
You keep saying role players role players...where were LeBron's role players? He never had any.
Houston was stacked 1 - 12. Olajuwon and Thorpe was one hell of a 1 - 2 punch. No one could stop them down low. Everyone knew they were getting to the Finals and would probably win without Jordan in the league to stop them. Houston beat New York that year who had a loaded team and a solid starting five.
And it wasn't that I was comparing LeBron and Magic. That came from the article. Magic said he disagreed with LeBron for wanting to go and play with other superstars when he said he wanted to play for the Lakers because he wanted to play with Kareem and company. The Bulls and Lakers flipped a coin in 1979 and Magic stated that had the Bulls won, he would have gone back to college lol. They're all hypocrites. LeBron James is the only guy in league history that is expected to win by myself with 11 scrubs. Otherwise his "legacy" is tarnished.
Houston was stacked 1 - 12. Olajuwon and Thorpe was one hell of a 1 - 2 punch. No one could stop them down low. Everyone knew they were getting to the Finals and would probably win without Jordan in the league to stop them. Houston beat New York that year who had a loaded team and a solid starting five.
And it wasn't that I was comparing LeBron and Magic. That came from the article. Magic said he disagreed with LeBron for wanting to go and play with other superstars when he said he wanted to play for the Lakers because he wanted to play with Kareem and company. The Bulls and Lakers flipped a coin in 1979 and Magic stated that had the Bulls won, he would have gone back to college lol. They're all hypocrites. LeBron James is the only guy in league history that is expected to win by myself with 11 scrubs. Otherwise his "legacy" is tarnished.
Williams, West, Hickson, Parker. he had plenty of role players.
Houston was not stacked 1-12, they had Olajuwon and a bunch of average players. I love kenny Smith but he was nothing more than average in the NBA, Vernon maxwell average, Horry was a 2nd year player, Cassell a rookie, ... That team was not loaded. They would have been smoked by Chi if Michael was playing.
Of course they would have been smoked. The Knicks would have gotten pounded as well. What proves that this was an elite Houston team is that they won back to back titles the following year with essentially the same roster. The only major addition was Clyde Drexler. I guess you're gonna say Drexler wasn't a superstar either though right? Even though Scottie Pippen isn't a superstar and was better than Drexler.
I don't know if Scottie was better than Drexler but the '95 Rockets were not the same team as the '94 Rockets and them winning proves nothing about 1994.
This is getting asinine lol. The Houston Rockets had ELEVEN players from the 1993 - 1994 Houston Rockets team. It was essentially the same team. They added Clyde Drexler and that was it. 1993 - 1994 Houston Rockets were 16 - 8 in the playoffs. 1994 - 1995 Houston Rockets were 16 - 7 and had an easier opponent in the Finals lol. 1993 - 1994 Houston Rockets won 58 games. 1994 - 1995 Houston Rockets won 47. The first Rockets team was A LOT better defensively as well. They were deep and physical. It was a GREAT team. How are you arguing this?
This is getting asinine lol. The Houston Rockets had ELEVEN players from the 1993 - 1994 Houston Rockets team. It was essentially the same team. They added Clyde Drexler and that was it. 1993 - 1994 Houston Rockets were 16 - 8 in the playoffs. 1994 - 1995 Houston Rockets were 16 - 7 and had an easier opponent in the Finals lol. 1993 - 1994 Houston Rockets won 58 games. 1994 - 1995 Houston Rockets won 47. The first Rockets team was A LOT better defensively as well. They were deep and physical. It was a GREAT team. How are you arguing this?
Players do develop and get better. Not only did they add an all-star but guys like Horry and Cassell became vets- that's a big difference PLUS the team now knew had to win. They were known as choke City prior to winning that title.
Neither Rocket team was great but the '95 team was better. Either one would was not as good as any of the teams the Bulls beat in the Finals w/ the exception of the '91 Lakers.
How was the 1995 team better when they won less games? And one more year turns a guy into a veteran? Point is, either Rockets team would have beaten the immortal hell out of ANY of LeBron's teams. It would have been UGLY.
Wheh teams learn how to win the record becomes meaningless. The '73 dolphins were better than '72 even though they lost 2 games.
The '4 Rockets went to 7 games twice, the '95 squad just once and they swept in the Finals compared to going 7 in '94.
Those teams would have beaten Lebron's Cavs b/c the star on that team played like a star. The '94 or '95 Rockets would not have won a title if you switched Lebron for Hakeem.
They played Orlando in the Finals lol.
But you're exactly right, when a team learns how to win, their record does become meaningless. That's exactly what I was trying to say when you were pimping Cleveland's best record. They had no clue how to win close games. Boston had it figured out. They knew how to win and proved that they did. Took the 4th seed in the East, coasted at the end of the season, got healthy, and then flipped the switch in the playoffs.
Same thing goes for Hakeem though. You take Hakeem, Jordan, or Kobe and put them with the 2010 Cavaliers...they aren't winning anything either. A superstar can carry a team but he can't win it all alone.
But you're exactly right, when a team learns how to win, their record does become meaningless. That's exactly what I was trying to say when you were pimping Cleveland's best record. They had no clue how to win close games. Boston had it figured out. They knew how to win and proved that they did. Took the 4th seed in the East, coasted at the end of the season, got healthy, and then flipped the switch in the playoffs.
Same thing goes for Hakeem though. You take Hakeem, Jordan, or Kobe and put them with the 2010 Cavaliers...they aren't winning anything either. A superstar can carry a team but he can't win it all alone.
Penny was 1st team all NBA and Shaq was 2nd team. That team was more talented than the Knicks team Hou beat a year ago, they just weren't as experienced.
You said Boston didn't care about winning b/c they knew they could win on the road. They know how to win but they really struggled on the raod in postseason in '08 and '09.
You put Jordan on the 2010 Cavs and they EASILY win the title. I think Kobe at least gets them to the Finals, Hakeem I'm not so sure.
Dude...you're talking about 2008 and 2009. What kind of debate are we having here lol?
That Orlando team had Penny and Shaq. That was about it. Shaq was YOUNG too. He was definitely outmatched by Olajuwon. At least Ewing was some tough competition. And that Knicks team would have beaten the hell out of the Magic. Ewing, Oakley, Starks, Mason...those were some mean dudes.
And for the record, the 1995 Houston Rockets were a SIX seed lolololol.
That Orlando team had Penny and Shaq. That was about it. Shaq was YOUNG too. He was definitely outmatched by Olajuwon. At least Ewing was some tough competition. And that Knicks team would have beaten the hell out of the Magic. Ewing, Oakley, Starks, Mason...those were some mean dudes.
And for the record, the 1995 Houston Rockets were a SIX seed lolololol.
'08 and '09, the only postseasons those Celtic teams played in where they were terrible on the road in postseason.
Ewing was not any competition, the Knicks had Anthony Mason guarding Olajuwon alot in that series b/c Ewing couldn't handle him. Shaq and Penny were a better combo than Ewing and Derek Harper or Starks.
That Magic team had no one- wasn't Horace Grant starting for that team? Isn't that one of the great players you credit for helping Jordan?
Dennis Scott was also on that team and he was a better shooter than anyone the Knicks had. The oralndo team was much more talented than the '94 Knicks.
The '95 Rockets leqrned how to win the year before and ha da better POSTSEASON than the '94 Rockets culminating w/ a SWEEP in the Finals instead of a 7 game series.
The '95 magic beat the Bulls(Jordan wasn't himself yet but they were 13-4 w/ him in the reg season) and beat the Pacers who beat the Knicks.
I did say neither Rocket team was great and they weren't. They took advantage of a Jordan-less 2 seasons behind a superstar that led a team that had no business being in the Finals to TWO titles much like Lebron should have been able to do in this weak era w/ no great teams.