Let Starks walk, move Odrick inside, sign or draft pass rushing DE

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by phinatic1399, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. phinatic1399

    phinatic1399 Diehard Phinatic!

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    I know I'm going to catch a lot of flack for this but I think its the smartest thing to do. Starks started off the season on fire but has cooled off a bit lately. We could easily move Odrick inside where he belongs and still have depth with randall, shelby, and vernon, and we could resign mcdaniel to a minimal deal. I dont think we would see much of a dropoff rolling with Odrick over starks. We would still have two 300+ DT's to clog the run and Wake is much improved at stopping the run as well. All I know is we desperately need to add a passrusher on the other side of wake, we cant ask him to do it all alone. I havent seen enough from vernon to go into next season with him and wake our primary pass rushers. I just dont know any other option unless we cut odrick and resign starks but dont we owe odrick a decent amount of $ from his rookie salary? What if we signed somebody like cliff avril? Would u like a Dline consisting of wake, solai, odrick, and avril? And we could rotate mcdaniel or randel on running downs. Here is a list of unrestricted pass rushing DE's.

    Cliff Avril: 9.5 sacks
    Michael Bennett: 9 sacks
    Chris Clemons: 7.5 sacks
    Israel Idonije: 5 sacks
    Juqua Parker: 5 sacks
    Osi Umenyiora: 6 sacks
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2012
  2. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    I think that will happen. I do not have a problem with it.
     
  3. 2413fanphins

    2413fanphins A True Fan

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    Dont have a problem with that at all bro. Ive been lobbying fir drafting an edge rusher (or two) for weeks now
     
  4. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    I would draft the DE though...Vernon needs to develop as well.
     
  5. MarshallFin1

    MarshallFin1 A True Fan

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    lol, starks has a few slow weeks n now ppl are callin for his head. no loyalty from this fanbase. there is no way i would let go of starks, he is one of the few playmakers on this defense.
     
  6. Geordie

    Geordie A True Fan

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    If Starks was in his 30's I could see the sense in this but I believe he's on 28 (could be wrong) and not likely too expensive to resign. But we have a lot of other more pressing holes to fill right now and if we don't get a WR in FA then that has to become our #1 target for the draft. If we do, and solidfy the oline and secondary then picking a pash rusher in the 1st and letting starks walk is a good call because there appears to be a lot of quality at DE in this draft.
     
  7. mrhankey81701

    mrhankey81701 A True Fan

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    The only thing I think is that Starks is going to command a lot of money. If we can get him for a Paul Soliai like deal than absolutely resign him, if we can't get him for cheap then let him walk. We don't have to throw too much money at him when we have a capable replacement in Odrick already on the roster.
     
  8. MRojas4

    MRojas4 The Cheese Connoisseur Finheaven VIP

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    Re-sign Starks. Let McDaniels walk. Move Odrick back inside and sit Soliai on 3rd downs. Draft a pass rush DE or let Vernon develop.

    You don't just let the anchor of your Defense and D-line walk out of town.
     
  9. MadDog 88

    MadDog 88 TANNERECTION!!!! Donator

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    The DL is a strength and I could buy into letting Starks walk. Odrick is out of position as a DE and kicking him inside is not a big drop off. Additionally, that gives them more money to get an edge rusher.
     
  10. phinatic1399

    phinatic1399 Diehard Phinatic!

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    tough decisions have to be made
     
  11. AFCMiamiEast

    AFCMiamiEast A True Fan

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    Yes, we all know that the wide receivers and the offense is producing so much more than our defensive line. You do realize our d-line is widely know to be in the top 8 while our WR core in the bottom 3? Either CB or WR in round 1.
     
  12. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    I have been saying this for a while now. There is nothing against Randy Starks, he and Paul form a great team inside, and Randy is having a Pro Bowl type of year inside. But the Miami Dolphins need to play to whatever strengths they have. They have a guy in Jared Odrick who's best position would be as a DT in our 4-3. He has 2 years at a cheap number. You also could probably resign Tony Mcdaniel as a solid depth guy for a cheap price and you have Randall in the mix as well. You also have a GM in Jeff Ireland is has shown time and time again that his biggest strength is finding talent at DT. Hell we let go of some guys in preseason because we were loaded at the position.

    It's not about Randy Starks having less stats by his name the past few weeks, its about doing whats best for your team . . . and if you can allocate money from a strength and not lose much and put that money towards a weakness, that could be the best option. You could also resign Starks and let Soliai walk after next season . . . but I prefer having big Paul over Randy.

    We do need a DE this offseason, preferably in the draft in round 1. In fact, I am a big fan of focusing on defense in the first 3 rounds of the draft . . . going defense with 4 of our first 5 picks (WR with the other one) and looking at Free Agency for a guy like Jared Cook at TE and maybe Greg Jennings or Mike Wallace and also address RT in Free Agency (assuming we let Jake Walk). On day 3 of the draft I wanna find 2 offensive ZBS guards to compete with Jerry and Incogs, and more depth on defense.
     
  13. finjim

    finjim A True Fan

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    I put Starks in the same camp as Long.

    If we can sign them for a reasonable price, keep them. If not, see what happens in FA.
     
  14. SQuinn17

    SQuinn17 League Dominator

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    Starks is the only FA we have that's worth signing IMO. He's one of the most consistent players on the team.
     
  15. phinatic1399

    phinatic1399 Diehard Phinatic!

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    reggie bush needs to be resigned
     
  16. finjim

    finjim A True Fan

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    Not unless they are going to use him right. He needs 5-7 catches a game.
     
  17. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    I don't want us to give Starks a hugh contract but I'm hoping we can keep him. Odrick has only been average since OIreland made the mistake of drafting him and while he might be better at a DT, we don't know that for a fact. Starks is one of the best DT's in the NFL and will not be so easy to replace as some of you guys seem to think.If we can't fit him in under the cap I can understand going with plan B. But to make plan A letting him go is not a good idea imo.

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  18. SQuinn17

    SQuinn17 League Dominator

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    Why, so we can still use him wrong?
     
  19. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    Starks is very consistent, but he plays a position that we have guys and have proven to find guys to provide solid depth. You pass up talent like Earl Thomas and Dez Bryant (say what you want about him the kid has plenty of talent at a skill spot) in that draft for Jared Odrick you need to get this kid in a position to succeed and that is Randy Starks position. The GM that is most likely staying has shown where he can locate solid Defensive tackle depth. I don't know what Starks is going to command but I think it is going to be more than people believe. He is scheme versatile and he's still young. Miami needs playmakers at the skill positions.
     
  20. flynryan15

    flynryan15 A True Fan Donator

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    I would let Odrick walk and keep Starks
     
  21. phinatic1399

    phinatic1399 Diehard Phinatic!

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    If we used him right he is still a serious weapon. We need to keep the weapons on offense we have and add more. Getting rid of reggie bush is a mistake his body is fresh he was not a starting running back with the saints so he didnt take a beating. He can probably go another 3-4 years at a high level.
     
  22. MRojas4

    MRojas4 The Cheese Connoisseur Finheaven VIP

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    Very true, but you are going to let a top tier DT walk in hopes Odrick is a capable replacement? Odrick has shown flashes but not enough to convince me he is capable of walking in and taking over for Starks.

    You let McDaniels walk who is getting a $3 mill this year. Odicks contact is reasonable at 5 year $13 mill. Keep a DT rotation of Soliai, Starks, and Odrick with Starks and Odrick playing primary passing downs (Soliai has not shown much on pass rush). Wake at DE and Vernon or FA/Draft at the other end.

    Keep Odrick and Starks would also allow us to run heavier run defense packages. With Wake, Soliai, Starks, Odrick at the line like we have now.
     
  23. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    Nah man, Odrick is a for sure 4-3 DT who hasn't had a chance to play that position yet. Thats like saying lets see if Randy Starks can play DE opposite of Wake the last 3 games and lets put Odrick on the inside next to Big Paul. Odrick is playing 4-3 DE out of need, just like Starks was destined to play 3-4 NT and wasn't great at it either . . . just serviceable, like Odrick is now at end.

    Plus Odrick is cheap man, 700,000 this year and the next year? Randy is going to get about 8 million a year I'd guess.
     
  24. flynryan15

    flynryan15 A True Fan Donator

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    if Odrick was that big of force at DT he would be playing it, guy is odd man out. I don't care about cost I care about getting better.
     
  25. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    We don't know if he is the "big force" because we have a hole at 4-3 DE that needed filling and when you have a great player in Starks at that DT spot why force Odrick there? Odrick is a versatile dlineman that can play inside or outside but is much better suited as a DT in our 4-3. The fact that he is playing 4-3 end shows his versatility

    I think we could get better if we take the money we would use on Randy Starks, get a big play WR with it, draft a pass rushing DE in the first round and move Odrick inside to his more natural position. That's just how I feel about it.
     
  26. Etuoo33

    Etuoo33 Seasoned Veteran

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    I might switch Odrick (DT)and Starks (DE) if he can be re-signed at a reasonable rate, hopefully he will not want to break the bank. I think McDaniels is the odd man out...too expensive for what we get. Try to re-sign Hartline, Busch, and Smith if it can be done at a reasonable rate, if any one of them wants to 'break the bank' seeya. Odrick has 2 years left on his contract, why would we let him walk?
     
  27. MRojas4

    MRojas4 The Cheese Connoisseur Finheaven VIP

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    In addition, you let Starks walk your left with what rotation.

    Soliai, Odrick and... McCheeseburger Daniels?
     
  28. SQuinn17

    SQuinn17 League Dominator

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    I think it's going to be tougher to fill his shoes than everyone thinks. Jared Odrick isn't a lock to succeed in his role, Odrick really hasn't done too much since he's been here. I know it'll be a cost saving move, but I'm not so sure it'll work out.
     
  29. silverfin

    silverfin FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Dependshow much money Starks is going to command.
     
  30. phinatic1399

    phinatic1399 Diehard Phinatic!

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    I agree 100%. Your not gonna see that much of a drop off if Odrick takes over at DT. Then we can use the $ saved on skill players like we need! Enough of this philosophy of being obsessed with offensive and defensive lineman. The Giants could care less about stopping the run all they care about is rushing the passer they know its a passing league now and its gotten them two superbowls. We have to break away from this big, plodding, slow style of football and start focusing on pass rushers and skill players. We've ranked in the top 5 all season stopping the run but where has that gotten us? 5-8 and out of the playoffs again.
     
  31. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    He was hurt in 2010. Played DE both in 2011 and 2012. All I am saying is do you remember when we moved Randy Starks to NT? He wasn't great either, but it had to be done out of necessity. It is not a coincedence that he is flourishing at his more natural position next to a guy like Paul Soliai and I would expect similar results if we moved Odrick inside. Is it a guarantee, no it isn't, but you have a cap to manage, and a GM who if he knows anything, he knows how to find DT tackle . . . you have to play to your strengths. This team needs playmakers at the skill positions. We can keep loading up on the DLine but we see it doesn't make a difference. Invest some money into some guys who can put points on the board and trust your GM to find the proper talent to replace a guy like Starks . . . talent that is probably already on the team.
     
  32. SQuinn17

    SQuinn17 League Dominator

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    What good is a gun if you don't know how to shoot it?
     
  33. Etuoo33

    Etuoo33 Seasoned Veteran

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    I also think you have one of our young guy's come in in pass rush situations and put Odrick on the sideline... maybe Starks too, depending on how the youngsters do. That's not counting my choice as first round pass rusher, that is just status quo.
     
  34. Asicswrg85

    Asicswrg85 A True Fan

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    I kinda like this idea actually because Odrick is never going to be a premiere pass rusher and we do need a DE opposite of Wake. This is the only way it makes sense unless Vernon / Shelby prove that they can be that premiere pass rusher. Honestly, I would like to see more of those guys over the next few weeks for simple "Talent evaluation" purposes.
     
  35. SQuinn17

    SQuinn17 League Dominator

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    I feel what your saying, but If I remember correctly, Randy Starks played multiple position early in his time with us and not just NT.
     
  36. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    Yea man, that's why I understand not resigning Long as well. If Joe Philbin is here to change the philosophy, it needs to be done this offseason with the cap room and draft picks. I fully expect to see a competitive product on the field next season or he can go to. No excuses man. Put some points on the board . . . you have your handpicked QB and the resources.
     
  37. phinatic1399

    phinatic1399 Diehard Phinatic!

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    [QUOTEWhat good is a gun if you don't know how to shoot it? ][/QUOTE]

    I agree, still think he needs to be resigned

    ---------- Post added at 12:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 PM ----------

    I agree, its time to load up with weapons on offense and add some pass rushers and CB's on defense.
     
  38. flynryan15

    flynryan15 A True Fan Donator

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    Gonna need that first rd pick for a cb or wr not sure i would bank on a wr in FA.
     
  39. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    Randy is versatile . . . lets not kid ourselves . . . I really LIKE Randy Starks. All I'm saying is Miami needs to play to it's strengths . . . and I'd rather use the money from Starks on a playmaker at WR and have Mcdaniel/Randall as depth than keep Starks and have Odrick/Randall as depth. We are discounting a first round pick who hasn't had the opportunity to play his natural position. If we are keeping Jeff Ireland, you have to trust in his ability to find Defensive Tackle talent. I don't trust him with much, but I do trust that our Defensive tackles will be fine, with or without Randy Starks.
     
  40. OyeDale305

    OyeDale305 MIA#1

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    starks can get interceptions we need him lmao
     
  41. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    Yea its a tough decision . . . especially at CB. I think WR we will be fine (the outcry by the fans and the options and draft/FA are solid reasons why I'm sure the position will be addressed well this offseason). Green Bay has a gauntlet of 2nd and 3rd round WR and there will be good value at WR in this draft in those rounds . . . we have 4 picks. I'm thinking DE with that first pick . . . . resigning Sean Smith and taking a CB in round 2. Move Marshall over to FS. I just don't know if we are getting a better talent by taking CB in round 1 over a DE. Still early and things change but I feel like we would be reaching for a CB with this group if we took one in the top 15.

    I still wish we had Vontae though . . . just makes resigning Smith less of a priority . . . I don't know if I want to enter a weak CB FA class, not resign Sean Smith and be forced into a CB early in the draft. Sean Smith almost certainly needs to be resigned.
     
  42. flynryan15

    flynryan15 A True Fan Donator

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    They cut Marshall, just because Greenbay finds WR in the second ad third round doesn't mean we can. A lot is to be determined by who is out GM, if it is Ireland then I'm sure we will draft de in the first round. Not sure I bring Smith back he just isn't that good and he will want top dollar.
     
  43. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    I thought Marshall was just on IR? He's still a Dolphin come next season, right?

    If Smith wants top dollar you actually might have to franchise him for a year and get your rookie CB's up to speed. I don't know if I trust MIami to go into the season with Carroll, Wilson, Stanford and 2 rookies. Sean Smith is going to probably be one of the best if not the best CB's on the market.
     
  44. Etuoo33

    Etuoo33 Seasoned Veteran

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    Vonte at 85% of his huge potential would have been great, but the true Vonte to this point was closer to 50%, ant that just was not enough... from a team standpoint where you are trying to max potential on every man on the roster. Slackers like Vonte and Marshall were a cancer to the guy's who want to succede. I could live with a stud lock down corner but I think at #12 the best will be gone.
     
  45. flynryan15

    flynryan15 A True Fan Donator

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    I'm pretty sure the cut him from IR I might be wrong though. Well they went with Davis and Smith as rookies so anything is possible but no way you tag smith with what it cost for a cb!
     
  46. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    Certainly sounds good in theory, but when you see Brandon Marshall getting ready to march into the playoffs and putting up a huge season and the Dolphins being almost forced to resign Sean Smith (not saying we wouldn't of anyways) because we have such limited CB depth due to the Vontae trade . . . I just wish our GM would of had more foresight and drafted better at these skill positions.

    Truth is, we have alot of cap room . . . but we need to hit on this draft more than anything else.
     
  47. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i could see them using the top pick on a 3 down de and letting starks walk and moving odrick inside to dt which is his best position anyways...starks probably commands $8 mil per this offseason he'll get more money than kendall langford got from st louis no doubt about that...

    probably have no choice but to keep sean smith just so you don't have so much turnover in the back end on d only good thing about that is since the first quarter of the season he's killed his market free agency wise there was a time i didn't think $10 mil per would get it done the first quarter of the year but he's now probably in the $6 mil per range and despite his poor play of late i think miami has to bite the bullet on that one...we should be proactive and lock up carroll on the cheap now before the price goes up could probably get him inked to a 3 year $5 mil deal which would be a bargain and if he did fall off the table you have very little money invested cap wise to worry about...use a top 2 round pick one of our top 3 picks on a cb they go fast you better not wait around on corners or you'll be left empty handed

    in free agency priority number uno should be getting a high end level wr...5 years $50 mil something in that range...one of mike wallace dwayne bowe or greg jennings needs to be a dolphin...we need guys ready now...still i'd use a top 2 round top 3 pick of ours on a wr also to add to the talent at the position which is lacking...if you add mike wallace you add a much needed speed element that must be respected you add bowe you add a win wr at the los and off press and a run after the catch provider who can win in the red zone and plays to his size...something this core needs desperately...jennings gives you the smarts for this system and the jack of all trades ability and he understands db leverage and runs the best back shoulder route in the game...no excuses miami must land a difference making wr in free agency

    offer jake long 2 years and $12 mil if he balks let him walk...can always kick martin over to the left side and use a mid round pick on a right tackle or a veteran signing on the relative cheap...

    lose reggie bush mr terrible fit for the zone inside running game way too much east and west for this o...give the keys to lamar miller for the starting job but cover yourself by adding a veteran on the cheap that runs downhill and angry like a chris ivory...you can find guys like that very cheap and they'll outproduce their pay...ivory probably less than $1 million...

    on the fence about fasano but he's the only guy that can play in line and block...egnews never gonna block anyone clays not gonna win in line off tackle so fasano probably needs to stick...

    shocker signing for me that i would make is chris clemons...yep mr stiff hips and no ball skills and playmaking ability at free safety...he hasn't made any plays on the ball this year and probably never will but he's been pretty solid all told and miamis got too many other big needs to let him walk when they can sign him cheap...i'm thinking 1 year $3 mil...enough that he won't go elsewhere and he allows you another year to by time before you make free safety a priority if you need to...

    pretty easy and simple plan for the offseason...i might be more inclined to sign starks though provided i can maybe talk him into 3 years and $20 mil just so i don't kill my depth at dt...but odrick will play a high end 43 dt for you so tough one to call...

    sign hartline nothing more than $6 mil per...he's earned a new contract with the team and he can make some plays against #2 cbs and nickle guys etc while our alpha wr opposite him takes on the top level corner on each team...
     
  48. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    Tagging him at 10 million for one year is better than giving him 7 or 8 million a year over 5 years if he's not a guy you think will ever put it all together. I haven't really looked into who will be available at CB next year but I'm guessing Sean Smith is one of the top CB's on that list.
     
  49. damanref10

    damanref10 Little Lebowski Urban Achiever

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    dont disagree with much here but i can tell you one thing... if we sign dwayne bowe to a 10 mil per year deal, when people actually get a chance to watch how he plays and bad his hands are, they are gonna forget all about how many balls Brandon Marshall dropped. gonna be some serious buyers remorse on that one.

    IMO its Greg Jennings all day. will probably be cheaper, and a healthy greg is still a better receiver than either of those guys. we all know mike wallace has all world speed, but the more i watch him the less i see him truly being able to make that next step into being a truly elite receiver. It kind of reminds me of Desean Jackson (not in regards to his height) but in regards to how his game progressed from purely a deep threat into an elite deep threat with moderate ability in other areas for about a year... and then just regressed and never has been able to get over the hump. Mike Wallace has the benefit of a qb who will relentlessly attempt to get him the ball, and I'm just not sold that Mike will take the next step.

    I'd rather sign greg, draft a WR or two, and use the extra 2 million by not spending max dollars on wallace or bowe to continue to address other holes. you cant fix all the holes this offseason and lord knows we already have enough as is... still need 2 more guys in the secondary, another pass rusher, possibly 2 OG, possibly a RT if jake walks and we slide martin over, still need a WR or 2, a modern day receiving tight end.... not to mention we need depth at positions other than DT.

    gonna be an interesting off season... thats for sure
     
  50. Etuoo33

    Etuoo33 Seasoned Veteran

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    Hoopshoops is more on track with my way of thinking. Good post!
     

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