Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by BAMAPHIN 22, Jul 23, 2008.
As much as I love Jason Taylor and Thomas, those other guys brought us to and/or won us a super bowl. Taylor and Thomas did not.
Good Read, Thanks. Can't argue with the article.
I don't know if I agree with Jason Taylor being 2nd on that list but I think Jake Scott was more accomplished than **** Anderson.
The fact that Taylor played so many games with the Dolphins at such a high level i think has to put him in the conversation for second behind Marino. But i've always considered the second greatest Dolphin to be Larry Csonka, as good as guys like Larry Little and Bob Griese were. I think my list would be something like:
1. Dan Marino
2. Larry Csonka (arguably the greatest FB to ever play he has to be here)
3. Jason Taylor
4. Zach Thomas
5. Larry Little (one of the greatest guards to ever play)
6. Bob Griese
7. Mark Clayton (our greatest receiver)
8. Nick Buoniconti
9. Bob Kuechenberg
10. Richmond Webb
When you start with all time great Miami Dolphins players, it has to start with the three guys who have had their jerseys retired by the team. Then you can fill in the blanks.
1. Dan Marino
2. Bob Griese
3. Larry Csonka
4. Zach Thomas
5. Jason Taylor
6. Bob Kuechenberg
7. Mark Clayton
8. Richmond Webb
9. Larry Little
10. Jake Scott
so tear down Marino then too.
Most of those other guys had eachother when they won their titles....Little, Czonka, Griese, Anderson, Kuech, Buoniconti. That's 6 of the best 10 right there.....so they made a great team and the team won championships. That's not even counting others who deserve consideration (M.Morris, P.Warfield, J.Scott, M.Fernandez)
Of the other 4 Marino and Clayton had eachother, and Zach and JT had eachother....but not much else in terms of all-time great Phins. And if you counted up the next tier.....Marino had more to work with than JT.
Marino brought us to a super bowl...
oh...need to work on my reading comprehension.
well, I stand by the remainder of my post...even Marino and Clayton had more help than ZT and JT.
Greatest Phins to play with Marino and Clayton: Duper, Nat Moore, D.Stephenson, Offerdahl, L.Oliver, R.Webb, K.Simms, Tony Nathan, Reggie Roby
JT and Zach: Madison, Surtain, Bowens, McMichael, Chambers
number one definitely has to be jamar fletcher!!
I would say 1. Marino 2. Csonka 3. Taylor... the rest is real debatable.
Zach Thomas has lead the league in tackles for how many seasons? Or is in at least the top 3 otherwise except last season? I have no idea how anyone can make a serious list that could ever have Taylor ahead of Thomas.
This JT love fest has just gotten to a sickening place.
BOTH were great players for Miami and BOTH may one day be in the Hall of Fame. As for the "love fest" you speak of, I feel the same way about the JT hatred. The guy has more sacks than ANYONE in the NFL since the 2000 season. That means he has been the most productive defensive end for the better part of a decade. He won the DPOY. Accept how great he has been and move on.
I don't agree, of course I lived thru the great years also.
Just for starters, hall of famers Bob Griese, Larry Csonka were greater Dolphins than Jason Taylor.
And how about perhaps the greatest center ever, Dwight Stephenson? Not to mention hall of fame center Jim Langer.
We all love Jason Taylor, and he is a great Dolphin, but lets not get carried away.
Exactly, he just happens to be the most recent Superstar. Great player, but not 2nd all time for the Phins.
Plus with the way the game is played now, and statistics and all that it's really hard to say. I mean, how would some of those greats faired now a days? How would Jason Taylor have faired back in 72. My opinion is he would have been dominated. But inthe same light, the 72 guys probably wouldn't be as good now-a-days.
So in an age with inflated stats it's really difficult to judge by looking at stats. Which is why I always say stats don't tell the whole story.
Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are great QB'S. But they are living in an era where all the rules help the WR'S and QB'S. If you breathe on Brady you get a 15 yard penalty. Back in the day you would get hit an hour after you passed the ball, slammed to the ground, get your helmet stepped on and then laughed at if you didn't get up right away. I know I overexaggerate.
But the point is, different times, different rules, different outcomes.
Taylor never lead us to a SB barely sniffen an AFC Championship game.
There is no way I put him #2. Maybe he does make top 10, I won't argue that, but to put him #2 is almost disrespecting many of the greats who have played.
How about Keith Simms?
I couldn't put Taylor at two. We had the best center of all time.
Zach Thomas to me is the #2 Miami Dolphin of all-time. Marino #1.
Whatever... moved way on when twinkle toes was on DWTS. Never said Taylor wasn't great.. but No.2 Not before Thomas. And Im sure there are other players in the history of the organization that may have a place in there.
I would rank Zach at number two just because of his preparation and he didn't cause the same drama that JT did towards the end there. How come Mark Duper isn't on anyone's top 10? One Marx brother without the other just doesn't look right to me.
Cote needs to be stuck in a resuscitation chamber for leaving out Dwight Stevenson completely.
I thought I was going out of my mind when it took 7 posts for Stephenson to be mentioned.
There was a greater gap from Stephenson to the #2 center in the league than any similar relationship in Dolphin history.
Bill Stanfill hasn't been nominated. Big shock. I must have been watching a different sport. He was dominant off the edge in Miami's true glory years and at his peak in the Super Bowl years. Much bigger natural frame than Taylor, particularly considering the typical size of players in that era.
Stanfill is so far clear as most underrated player it team history it's like he should be 1-10 in that category all by himself.
Taylor belongs high on a Miami franchise team. So do Marino, and Madison/Surtain at their position. I'm less certain about Zach.
But I still have no idea how the early '70s guys don't practically monopolize the list -- Griese, Csonka, Warfield, Little, Keuchenberg, Stanfill, Anderson, Scott, Langer, Buoniconti, Morris.
Sorry, but winning vital games in January is warp speed more significant than tossing the ball around in September and October. This forum seems to have odd priority level, like Ronnie Brown asserted as a top 5 running back based on a stretch we didn't win a single game. I'll look forward to the next truly great Dolphin stretch, when team history will naturally assume clear focus.
Just a few Dolphins to consider without any real thought - Larry Csonka, Dan Marino, Larry Little, Manny Fernandez, Bob Langer, Dwight Stephenson, Zach Thomas, **** Anderson, Nick Buoniconti and Bob Kuechenberg. I wouldn't belittle Jason's contribution but you need to put his contribution into the context of the franchise!
I hang my head in shame for forgetting Bill Stanfill. A well-done to Awsi Dooger for picking him up.
I can. Great players play great in big games.
As much as I rooted for JT and ZT ,realistically neither one ever played great in a meaningful game. They had great stats, but no real results.
AJ Duhe was a much better player than JT. He single handedly won a playoff game against the Jets.
Dwight Stephenson dominated the opposition, often taking out 2-3 defenders in one play.
JT was invisible when he lined up against the elite LT's i.e Ogden, Pace and Boselli
I cannot beleive what I am reading. i cant see Jason as the number 2 player in team history . for God's sakes people Bob Greise and Mercury Morris and Richmond Webb were all more instrumental in getting us to a playoff game then taylor ever thought about . the fact is Jason is way overrated but he is still a good player but I can name 15 to 20 players more deserving of being number 2 then jason.
I would put best players like this.
#1 Dan Marino
#2 Larry Csonka
#3 Paul Warfield
#4 Duriel Harris
#5 Bob Greise
#6 Mercury Morris
#7 Jim Langer
#8 Dwight Stephenson
#9 Keith Jackson
#10 Ricky Williams
jason always folds in in big games so i could honestly put Sam Madison and Randy Mcmichael because these two genious had more plays in big games then jason did. ( just my opinion)
Yeah, that's who I meant LOL. My mistake. Though Keith Simms was very good Richmond Webb was phnomial. Possibly our best Tackle ever.
He should easily be on out top 10.
Warfield not being on that list also is interesting.
But the serious question, or statement, I threw the credibilty of this top 10 away the moment I didn't see Ray Lucas on there.
I have tried before to tell people about AJ Duhe the man was one of the best at his position.And I promise we will not miss JT like we did Dwight Stevenson.That game agianest the Jet's in the play-offs no linebacker has ever took over like AJ did.He made todd change his religon.And there running back forgot his name.By the way where's the love for Kuch
I am glad someone else came to Dwight Stephenson's defense, the fact that he is not on some lists shows either youth or something else. Many of the other selections are debatable, but Stephenson, and Marino HAVE to be there, no debate.
If I am not mistaken, even Dan points out that Dwight was the best he ever played with, and Howie Long stated, he was the ONLY individual offensive lineman they ever game planned for......he was good.
hard to believe that any dolphins fan would make a top 10 list that doesn't include Stevenson...sorry but JT imo is not the 2nd greatest dolphin ever.......I'd put Stevenson,little and Larry Z and Paul Warfield in fron of him....so my list would be,
JT and Zach are pretty even imo and then you have Duper and Clayton and Griese and Kuechenburg...I loved JT but 2nd all time? I don't think so
Duhe often gets overlooked, and I can never understand why.
Zach Thomas trumps Jason Taylor. Outside of Marino, I don't know of another player (in my time) that I will miss more. Zach was the Marino of our defense.
For some reason, I don't have an attachment to Taylor.
Lots of great Dolphins however I have a hard time rating Jason and Zach ahead of some of our other greats simply because that defense always seemed to cave when the going got tough. I even saw Jay Fiedler bail it out on a number of occasions.
Srry Man Love Taylor But Little & Czonka Were better
He's only overlooked by those younger than 35 because they never saw him play.
I'd take him over JT any day of the week.
Zach Thomas was a better Dolphin than JT hands down. I MAY put JT at 5 but no higher. Even fifth is pushing it.
I am so much more of a Zack fan than JT. specially since he left like such a bitcc!!
There's no way Jason taylor is #2 behind Marino. taylor was a really good player but this is a guy who played in 6 playof games and never registered a sack. he always disaapeared in big games and was the leader of a D that always disappeared in big games. I can think of tons of guys off the top of my head that should rank higher.
Good list!,but #9 and # 10 I can't agree with. With that said Zach at 9 and JT at 10 looks pretty good.:hi5:If we would of at least went to a SB with them two, I would have them in my top 7. As far as Rw and RM!!!!!!!
You had me until Keith Jackson and Ricky Williams. Keith jackson only played 3 years in Miami and Ricky has done more to hurt the dolphins than help them.
Based on sheer talent and God given skills at there position Ricky Williams is right up there with Marino..
Sheer talent? Ricky on par with Marino.. not a chance. If you said Stevenson on sheer talent on par with Marino I'd be inclined to listen.. But c'mon. The more I think of it. Stevenson may just be #2 overall. As a truly dominant player at his position over his career.
Taylor is in no way better then Little, Csonka, or any of the other 72 Fins... I agree that Marino is number 1, but after that should be the entire 72 squad including the water boy and towel girl, then Clayton, Duper, Killer Bees, the Mascot, Ray Finkle, then JT and ZT...
Must appease the great angry Marino Gawd...
I always find it puzzling when people attempt to tear someone down in order to build others up. How about feeling fortunate to have all these great players donning Dolphins unis throughout our history?
He would have been dominated by 260 pound linemen? Yeah, that makes sense. If JT played in the early 70s he would have been kicked out the league for disrupting EVERY single snap.
For you rival fans w/ strong opinions number one, this is a family matter so who cares what you think? And two, can you even count on one hand the number of your great players?
I'm as big a Marino fan as you Canadianfishfan and I think Marino is the best QB of all time, but I consider Ricky to be one of the best if not thee best talent wise RB's of all time.
what about these guys ?
Unfortunately for Ricky there's alot more to this game than just having talent. talent wise he's on a HOF level but he just didn't get it done on the field outside of 2002.
Dwight Stephenson was a total BEAST! I was a kid when he was injured and I cried my eyes out. Still in mourning for that one...
JT was not better then him or Czonka. Other than that, I am open to arguments, but there are many good players that have legit claims ahead of JT.
In terms of great players by position, what about Reggie Roby? I suppose a punter will never be considered top 10 greatest though.