Merged: Advice given to Dolphins/ Ron Wolf says.....rebuild now

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Nublar7, Oct 7, 2004.

  1. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    SJMN: Advice given to Dolphins- start rebuilding now

    http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/9854127.htm
    I really don't want this staff to rebuild. I want the new regime to take over.
     
  2. MountainPhin

    MountainPhin Dudeman

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    i agree, dont let wanny and rick screw with this team anymore than they already have, wait till we have a guy in here that'll be here for the next 5 years or so
     
  3. FinsNYanksFan13

    FinsNYanksFan13 Banned on Points Hammered

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    We have to rebuild our coaching staff and our offense. Bates and the defense are allowed to stay!
     
  4. darkmistress

    darkmistress d'Artiste

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    I find it amusing that anyone could expect Wanny to be able to "rebuild" a team when he couldn't even be successful with a team that was already great...If we're going to rebuild (which I feel is inevitable) we have got to start with a new coaching staff or at least HC...
     
  5. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    What I meant was I don't want Wanny to TRY to rebuild because I know he will screw it up. I want the next coaching staff to take care of the rebuilding process.
     
  6. darkmistress

    darkmistress d'Artiste

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    yeah me too...I didn't mean to imply you thought that...lol
     
  7. Predaphin

    Predaphin Predator in the Water

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    no more taking away from our defense, that is the strong point in Miami, we need to change regimes instead.
     
  8. BuffBillsMan90

    BuffBillsMan90 is Clumpalicious!!

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    Can't trade Madsion right now........bonus amortization acceleration would bust the 2004 cap. However, Surtain could be traded because he only has 2 yrs (2004 & 2005) remaining. His cap number wouldn't change much because Miami would save cap space of remaining salary but replace it with bonus amortization from 2005. Madison has a vets minimum salary in 2004. Besides, return on Surtain likely to be much greater AND he's looking for big money extension. Madison, Howard, and Poole are all already signed long term
     
  9. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime FinHeaven Elite

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    Rebuild Now ! - Wolf Says

    ''Every week, you want to win, no matter how bad the situation,'' former Green Bay Packers general manager Ron Wolf said. ``But if you're that far down, making some trades is something you have to consider.''


    The Dolphins have at least two players -- cornerbacks Sam Madison and Patrick Surtain -- other teams would like to have. If Miami decides to rebuild, the two might not be around for the long haul.

    http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/9854872.htm

    The article talks about the possibility of trading some of our defensive stars THIS YEAR !!! to patch up existing holes :crazy: .We have seen enough of that.

    IMO this may be inevitable but do we really want "Jump the Gun" "Poker-Face" RS making those decisions.I hope not.We will wind up trading superstars ala Ogun for 3rd string backups.Lets wait until next year please.Discuss:gossip:
     
  10. FinsNYanksFan13

    FinsNYanksFan13 Banned on Points Hammered

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    I know we need to rebuild.......................................OUR OFFENSE!!
     
  11. phunwin

    phunwin The name's Bond...James Bond.

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    Madison's cap hit makes him nearly impossible to trade, even if he does look much better than last year. No, the rebuilding will come in the offseason. Slash the dead weight from the roster, thus saving around $18 million, get as much as possible for Ricky Williams and trade down from our likely top 5 pick and stockpile a bunch of draft picks.
    Dallas might end up with a top 5 pick from Buffalo. They'd probably pay a big price to draft a pair of top 5 guys. Get their #1 (their own, not the one from Buffalo), #2, #3 and a future #1.
     
  12. ChambOfCommerce

    ChambOfCommerce Banned Hammered

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    For the people who always bring up Dallas in RW trade ideas....HE AINT GOING THERE! Parcells is in love with Julius Jones, and I gotta say the guy does look good even though he is injured now. I think he could be their full-time starter NOW. In addition, Parcells isn't going to give much, or anything, for a pot smoking PITA like RW.

    2 best places for RW = Oakland & Philly

    I brought it up in a thread on another board and people thought I was clowning. But I think we should seriously consider the fact Philly could offer us our 2nd round pick BACK to us for RW that we gave up for Feeley. They still have a 2nd then, get there guy, we have our high 2nd back, and can move on.
     
  13. phunwin

    phunwin The name's Bond...James Bond.

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    Um, I never mentioned Ricky Williams going to Dallas. I mentioned the possibility of our top 5 draft pick going to Dallas. I'm well aware of the presence of Julius Jones in the Cowboys backfield.
     
  14. dolfanrodney

    dolfanrodney Finhead4life

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    I just don't see us getting rid of Surtain.
     
  15. LOCAL SCUM!

    LOCAL SCUM! Banned Hammered

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    Yeah, but in order to build a strong offense, you need to get rid of certain guys on defense in order to either make a good deal for anoffensive guy, or to get some good picks for this next draft.
     
  16. phunwin

    phunwin The name's Bond...James Bond.

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    I missed this before. What makes you think Philly would do that trade? At this point, they'd be moving a top 40 pick for a backup QB. If we decided to trade Feeley (and I doubt that will happen, but let's assume for the moment that we did), I think we'd be lucky to get a 4th rounder at this point. He's done nothing but hurt his trade value.
     
  17. musphinzfan

    musphinzfan Pro Bowler

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    Hello,Miami is already in this faze.Miami has 4 new lineman,1wr(1 on IR too),RB,QB,DT,Nickle back,Dime Back,and FS.

    Indy didnt go after Mike cause he is a Man cover and not a Cover 2 CB.Also the FACT that he is a head ache in the locker room.

    GB made a smart move to get a 2nd and J.T Sullivan who will be a starter someday for A OVERATED Mckenzie.**** Miami would get a 1st for EITHER 1 of our CB's.They are playing very solid,
     
  18. ChambOfCommerce

    ChambOfCommerce Banned Hammered

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    I didn't follow your first post well.

    But, no way Dallas trades all that just to jump up and have a second pick in the top 7-8. It would make no sense to give up all that just to move up 6-9 slots (estimating the Cowboys won't make the playoffs this year).
     
  19. phunwin

    phunwin The name's Bond...James Bond.

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    See, I think there's a good chance they make the playoffs. They're 2-1 and play in a weak conference. So I'm thinking that the Cowboys would be looking to trade up from around #22-24 to around #3-7. The price I mentioned is right around normal for that sort of jump. With two top picks like that, they could add a pair of tremendous playmakers.

    Obviously, Dallas isn't the only possibility, they just came to my mind as a team that might like two high picks.
     
  20. finphan

    finphan Starter

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    Did you ever see us getting rid of Troy Vincent?
     
  21. Justasportsfan

    Justasportsfan FinHeaven Elite Hammered

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    You guys still want to listen to the guy who recommended Feely?
     
  22. KyPhinfan13

    KyPhinfan13 Well-Known Member

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    If the Dolphins get a Top-5 pick, I don't see them trading down very far unless they get a deal they can't refuse. We need to draft a top-tier OT or grab a can't miss QB or RB. No more John Avery's, Yatil Green's or Billy Milner's.

    Personnaly, I think we should spend all of our picks on offensive line and that way we'd be sure to get at least two guys who know that their job is to keep gentlemen with different colored jerseys away from the gentlemen that have the same colored jerseys who possess the weird shaped brown thingy. :goof:
     
  23. Pink_Dove

    Pink_Dove Animus facit nobilem

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    :lol: Justa you beat me 2 it !!!! Ron Wolf is a good talent evaluator but he definately missed the boat on Feeley...
    Also how in the world can anyone say Philly might be interested in Ricky ?
    Have you seen Westbrook run? Since taking over for Duce, he's averged about 5 yds per carry...That offense is firing on all cylinders, bringing Ricky in makes no sense...
     
  24. Shouright

    Shouright Banned Hammered

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    I think Surtain is the only one we should trade from the D. Madison is untradeable due to his contract, and Surtain is gonna be asking for a TON during or after next season. Anybody think we could get Philly's #1 for him before this year's trade deadline? Philly is a shut-down corner away from being better than New England. And if we had Philly's #1 it would be like getting our #2 back from them, only a little better. If McKenzie (from GB) is worth a #2 and a QB, Surtain is certainly worth a #1.
     
  25. DOC33

    DOC33 Scout Team

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    I would have to disagree with RW. This team has some spare parts way beyond their two CB's and their needs are not that numerous. Although they are at probably the most important positions on the team. Obviously a new coaching staff needs to be put in place. However, many things need to be determined this year that will be critical to the future of this team.

    This year

    On Defense.........
    1)Can any of the young LB's be starters in this league.......I think it is a given that SEAU will be gone after this year, can BUA, POPE, or MOORE fill in. Also is Greenwood worth signing long term?

    2) Can Y. Bell or can W Poole function as a third Safety/ Starter. They need to give Them some meaningful mins. If they can Freeman could become expendable and he is a spare part with some trade value. This assumes that we can resign Edwards, but without question this team is overloaded in the defensive backfield the way that it stands right now and there is some good value backtheir that can be traded for picks.

    3) Draft priorities DT is probably the number one need on the team and I would expect the Fins to take one with one of their top two picks. DE is another high priority and I would not be surprised to to see a top 4 pick used on a DE. Depending on the losses in the DB I would think that a late round flyer would be used on a Saftey/ ST player.

    Offense
    1) OL Yes it is in shambles but the only real position of need is at OLT. The most important position on the team other than QB has been ignored by both JJ and Wanny. Almost all great teams have great highly drafted OLT's. It is time MIA spends ahigh first or second on a proven talented OLT. Number one offseaon priority. The rest of the OL falls into place IMO with as new OLT. I would look for Hadnot to compete at ORG and possibly consider moving J James to ORG and allowing W Smith and D Mcintosh to compete at OLG. Carey and St Clair will be fine at ORT.

    2) MIA will have spare parts at WR as well assuming Boston and Newsom come back healthy from their injuries MIA is very deep at WR and I would not be surprised if they dont move either Boston or Booker for picks. Gilmore looks at if he is the perfect 4-5 WR on this team. Newsom looked the part of a 3-4 WR before he was hurt and then Chambers and either Booker or Boston ( Both of their contracts are cap freiendly so they can be traded) along with Thompson and or Wesley and the WR position has some trade bait.

    3) I dont think that MIA will draft a RB high in the draft. I could see them bringing in a VET and trying to work them into the mix with Gordon, and Henry. Minor might stick @ from his ability on ST as much as anything. If E James becomes available I could see MIA making a play for him, but it should be done cautionsly and I would not overspend on a RB. They can be found. Low priority.

    4) QB The team absolutely must find out what they have in Feeley and Sage this year. Feeley needs to start 8-10 games and Sage should play some meaningful mins as well. They both need to be given the opportunity to get into a comfort zone without the threat of Wanny's cautious nature hanging over them. Either way a proven vet/mentor should be brought in whether they draft a QB or not and the ties with Feidler obviously need to be cut for the 4th offseason in a row.
     
  26. Bowl_Bound

    Bowl_Bound A True Fan

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    I would love to trade Booker perhaps even (and i hate to say this) surtain.
    If we could get a 1st for Pat and and 2nd for Booker that would be outstanding. If so I would pick
    1) LT
    1a) RB
    2)DT
    I would also consider
    1)QB
    1a)LT
    2)RB
    3)DT
    If a killer QB was there at our pick. A DT can be found in FA or later in the draft as all we need is a bid body not one that gets in on the QB. Got JT for that ;)
     
  27. KB21

    KB21 A True Fan

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    All great points, as usual.

    If you want to trim some salary from the defense, Junior Seau's $3+ million is a good place to start. I said it before the season began. They should have released Seau to make room to resign Ogunleye. Sammy Knight can be considered a spare part. Safety is not a difficult position to play, and the team has some young, cheap guys who could step in next season. As far as the linebackers go, Miami has themselves a future starting middle linebacker in Derrick Pope. I've been extremely impressed with him, and he stuck his head into the action more than any other linebacker that has had to replace Zach during the course of the game. I also feel Tony Bua can eventually be a starter at linebacker for Miami.

    Cornerback is a different story. I've always stated that the core players should be kept, and I considered the core players Jason Taylor, Adewale Ogunleye, Patrick Surtain, and Sam Madison. I'm not changing my mind on that. I feel those four should have been kept together, because the most important positions for this defense are the DEs and CBs, with the DTs coming in very close behind those.

    The offense is already in the rebuilding mode. You have to stick those young players out there and let them make mistakes. The only way they will learn to play in this league is to be allowed to make mistakes. This team has some young linemen in Seth McKinney, Rex Hadnot, Vernon Carey, Wade Smith, and Taylor Whitley. They have a guy I really like on the practice squad in Tony Pape. You have to give these guys an opportunity.

    AJ Feeley should be playing quarterback with Sage Rosenfels as the #2. You have to find out what you have in these guys. Jay Fiedler should be demoted to third string, because he has no future with this team nor any other team, IMO.

    You have two good tight ends in Randy McMichael and Donald Lee. Stick them out there and use some max protection sets to give AJ time to throw the ball.
     
  28. JCfinfan

    JCfinfan FinHeaven VIP

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    I still think its amusing when I hear the word rebuild for this team. There is a heck of alot of talent on this team, and with the proper coaching we would be contenders. Get a new coaching staff, a #1 RB, 2 O-linemen, and let Feeley see what he can do. If he cant cut it then pick up a vet QB early in the year (FA). Trust me, with the right coaching and a few players, we will be hard to beat.
     
  29. Drfletcherdc

    Drfletcherdc A True Fan

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    I hate the fact that everyone assumes Ricky won't play for the Dolphins again. I think with a new GM and DWand Jay gone, a couple of heart felt apologies to the players and fans from Ricky and a new OC, we would have a serious contending team. I don't want to draft a qb and wait for him to develope. A good LT and a good DT should be our priorities this off season, that is if we don't make the playoffs.
     
  30. dodge

    dodge Starter

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    many of you have very valid thoughts on this teams players. trading surtain would help garner picks to add to the offense, also playing the younger guys to give them experience and to see if they can or can't be a player for us. but the thing is its not going to happen unless wanny is fired by mid season. here is why, he is still trying to save his job and if he trades away great players on defense for extra picks next year the team plays worse, or if he plays the young backups the team will probably play worse either way he looks worse because of it and stands a greater chance of being fired. now if he really does plan to go to u of pitt next year then he doesn't care about building for next year either and would rather stick with status quo and hope they can win a couple more games that way to make his last year not as bad.
     
  31. NaboCane

    NaboCane I'm on my comma

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    Amen sister.

    I hate to say it; I supported Wannstedt right up to the moment he named Fiedler the starter again this season. It's unfortunate, because the man has the tools to be a great coach, but he is stubborn as a damn mule, and he can't judge NFL talent to save his life. Or his job...

    I said this in another post - after we beat the Pats this week, I'd like to see us trade everyone worth anything at all away; thank Wannstedt and Spielman for their service and show them out; then play the young guys - Feeley, Rosenfels, Poole, Bua, Hadnot - throw them in the fire and temper them, see what they've got. Then draft size and speed in '05, and sign a strong veteran QB.

    Reload.
     
  32. Dphins4me

    Dphins4me A True Fan

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    Yeap, Parcells loves guys who are always out with injuries. Whatever affection he might have felt for Jones died a long time ago with his multiple injuries.
     
  33. taylorj99

    taylorj99 Starter

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    Seriously, this guy may be well respected all around the league. And we wanted him as an advisor/talent scout. But he turned down the job because he didn't feel he could dedicate enough time to the Dolphins, so screw him and his opinion.
     
  34. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    We just need to draft better and evaluate free agents better no need to trade any good players. All we need is a line and that can be attained thru good scouting.
     

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