Merged: Ask Boomer (No B.S. Wanted) | Page 35 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Merged: Ask Boomer (No B.S. Wanted)

tmny99 said:
Boomer and CK,
Let me start by saying that this has to be one of the best threads I've ever read. I like the insight and anaylsis that you guys provide. Now, for my question. What do you guys REALLY think of Leinart's arm. The reason that I ask this is that there have been things that have occurred that have seriously caused me to question ML's arm strength. Here are some reasons:

1) The final play in the National Championship game - USC had the ball on the TX 43 yard line. Why didn't they throw a hail mary. If there was ever a time for a hail mary, that was it. Why didn't they just throw the ball up and pray that someone comes up to it. Moreover, Dewayne Jarrett is a tall receiver (he's listed at 6'5" meaning he's probably a little shorter than that), why not throw it up and let him try to come up with one. I think the hail mary was not thrown (or even called for that matter) because of Leinart's weak arm.

2) Leinart's decision to not play in the Senior Bowl - the Senior Bowl has been a platform for guys like David Carr and Carson Palmer to show off their talent and solidify their draft positions. These players were in the same position where going to the Senior Bowl could've only hurt their stock; however, they made the trip to Mobile and silenced any critics. I think Leinart had an opportunity to do the same thing, but he blew the opportunity. Leinart would've been right at home working with Norm Chow on the North squad. We all know that the practices of the Senior Bowl are so heavily scrutinized that it becomes a mini combine. I think that Leinart's not playing is directly linked to not wanting to lower his draft status because everyone would've gotten a close look at his arm.

3) Leinart's decision to not throw at the Combine - personally I feel that a QB not throwing at the combine is like a running back deciding not to do any of the running drills or a receiver saying he'll decline to catch passes. Why is he not throwing??? I question Vince Young's decision to not throw as well. I think VY's decision is similar to Leinart's in that he didn't want to hurt his draft status because seeing his side arm delivery in person may cost him some $. I know both of these guys are planning on having their own sessions later when they'll pass (Leinart won't be passing until April--possibly working on his arm strength in the time being IMO), but one must wonder what is the real reason behind not throwing at the combine. I think it has to deal with his arm. I have no questions about his ability to lead a team or his other attributes, but specifically his arm strength. What do you guys think?


Glad you like it mate.

I have no qualms about Matt's arm strength. I think it's significantly overplayed by the media. Essentially this is a kid who has been at the top of the college tree for 2 years. He's clearly got great footballing talent, a sharp brain, he's good looking, the King of the LA party scene, gorgeous women trailing after him, he's studying ballroom dancing at USC, one of the premier campuses in the US......who wouldn't be jealous? So, he gets knocked down a peg or two about the arm. I'd say his arm is comparable to Tom Brady's to Trent Green's, in that region,. He's never going to be Kerry Collins in terms of throwing a nailed on deep ball, but it's plenty good enough.

The Hail Mary thing.......I just don't see it. If Matt wanted to get it down there, he would have done.

The Senior Bowl thing.....again, not an issue in my mind. I think perhaps it was exacerbated this year by the amount of high 1st round talent that showed up and played - Ferguson, Hali, DeAngelo Williams, Greenway, etc. But like CK says, one hit in a meaningless game like that and God knows what could have happened. For every Carr and Palmer who went, history is littered with QB's who didn't go. A top end QB, likely 1,2,3 overall pick has nothing to prove in Mobile. It's more for the later rounders or guys like Patrick Ramsey and JP Losman who can use the week to improve their draft status.

The one area of the process that irks me, apart from the time scale of the draft - essentially January to May - is that kids don't work out at the Combine. To my mind that should be mandatory. It's not like you don't get another opportunity to do so. But it's Leinart's right not to work out there. He's not the first and he certainly won't be the last I have much more of an issue with an unproven passer like Vince Young skipping the Indy workouts than I do with Leinart. I know Matt can make the throws. I don't know that Vince can. And remember, Jay Cutler IS working out. As top ended QB's go, Jay has much the stronger arm, which we all know. Why bother putting yourself up against a superior strength arm when you don't need to? Why not control the situation and workout on your patch with your receivers catching the ball. Scouts have 40 Leinart games to watch at USC if they want to study an 18 yard dig, his deep post, etc etc etc.

And remember finally, it isn't JUST about arm strength. Tom Brady is a 3 time Superbowl winner and a 1st ballot Hall of Famer. He has Leinart arm strength. What they both possess is a winning mentality, leadership, field vision, accuracy and above all, touch. Leinart's touch is as good as I have scouted in a decade on a QB. You can't teach that.
 
I appreciate you guys helping your fellow fans out.

What can you tell me about Anwar Phillips?
 
Boomer said:
I'm not as high on McNeal as CK is.

CK, -

Watching NFL Network, Corey Chavous and Mike Mayock have ranked there Top 10 Prospects in the draft. The video is on NFL.com.

Any way, did you see Chavous surprised everyone with his views that QB Reggie McNeal is his #1 prospect and athlete in the entire draft. He picked him ahead of R. Bush, V. Davis, M. Williams, V. Young. He said he may not be selected in 1st or 2nd round but he is the best one in the draft.

If we grab a FA QB prior to as you suspect, could you see Miami taking him in the 3rd if he was still there?

Or is Chavous just so far out there you dismiss it entirely? BPA, Best Athlete Available logic could make him hard to pass up or would it be a wasted pick?
 
Draft Guru's:

Not trying to go to far off topic regarding someone not in the upcoming draft, but wondering if Brady Quinn would have declared where would you have slotted him this year?
 
Dolphins_SR66 said:
CK, -

Watching NFL Network, Corey Chavous and Mike Mayock have ranked there Top 10 Prospects in the draft. The video is on NFL.com.

Any way, did you see Chavous surprised everyone with his views that QB Reggie McNeal is his #1 prospect and athlete in the entire draft. He picked him ahead of R. Bush, V. Davis, M. Williams, V. Young. He said he may not be selected in 1st or 2nd round but he is the best one in the draft.

If we grab a FA QB prior to as you suspect, could you see Miami taking him in the 3rd if he was still there?

Or is Chavous just so far out there you dismiss it entirely? BPA, Best Athlete Available logic could make him hard to pass up or would it be a wasted pick?

I thought the Reggie McNeal interview was very telling on why Corey Chavous considers him so good.

If he runs a 4.3 then a lot of teams are going to move him to WR...and it's not because he can't be a quarterback.

Don't get me wrong...I think he could be a VERY good QB, he's got very very good potential at that position because his arm is incredible, he throws really well scrambling to either side of the field, he has great touch on his deep balls, and he doesn't quite have that runner's mentality that Vince Young has. I've seen him go out there and put on an absolute clinic as a quarterback. At the Shrine Game was his first opportunity to go from the shotgun offense to a dropback offense, and he did extremely well...looked very natural. As he says in the interviews dropping back isn't a problem because he's got wonderful feet anyway. In the Shrine Game he went through progressions, showed an awareness of where everyone was on the field, had good vision, excellent ball placement, looked off the safety, and most importanty he threw the deep ball accurately and with excellent touch. That shows me this guy can be a QB.

BUT! At 6'2" tall, if he runs a 4.3, with the kind of athleticism and feet he has shown, teams are going to want him at WR. This draft is not very good on high athleticism high concentration wide receivers with good size. Reggie says he recently ran a 4.28, and hopes to run a 4.3 at he Combine. If he does that, then you may have to just move him to WR because he's got the potential to be a pro bowler at that position whereas at QB he would be a little more of a work in progress trying to get him to be consistent.

In other words I really don't think you can go wrong with McNeal and this is what Chavous senses. Imagine the feet of Vick with a full 2 more inches of height, as a WR. As a WR I might like him better than any other WR in the draft (particularly because I don't like any of the WRs in this draft).
 
Dolphins_SR66 said:
Draft Guru's:

Not trying to go to far off topic regarding someone not in the upcoming draft, but wondering if Brady Quinn would have declared where would you have slotted him this year?

Impossible to say. The pre-draft period is extremely important in deciding a guy's worth. Brady hasn't gone through any of that.
 
ckparrothead said:
I thought the Reggie McNeal interview was very telling on why Corey Chavous considers him so good.

[snip]

... At 6'2" tall, if he runs a 4.3, with the kind of athleticism and feet he has shown, teams are going to want him at WR. This draft is not very good on high athleticism high concentration wide receivers with good size. Reggie says he recently ran a 4.28, and hopes to run a 4.3 at he Combine. If he does that, then you may have to just move him to WR because he's got the potential to be a pro bowler at that position whereas at QB he would be a little more of a work in progress trying to get him to be consistent.

In other words I really don't think you can go wrong with McNeal and this is what Chavous senses. Imagine the feet of Vick with a full 2 more inches of height, as a WR. As a WR I might like him better than any other WR in the draft (particularly because I don't like any of the WRs in this draft).
I've been saying for months since I first saw the guys' scouting report that he could be the sleeper steal of the draft if someone takes him in the 3rd or 4th round -- as a WR.
 
Boomer and Parrothead,

I love your guys passion and knowledge but I live in St. Louis and there is NO WAY Vince Young will end up here. This team has such an insane lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball that there will be a revolt in this town if they take a qb.
It's just not going to happen guys.
 
All this Mike Williams talk made me think of another Mike Williams. I remeber being real high on him before the draft last year. I thought he would be the best WR. I wouldnt have minded if the Dolphins had traded down and picked him.
This year though he had just 29 receptions. Reading an article on CNNSI a few months ago Peter King said he was far too slow and that the Lions should trade him now if they could get a 3rd for him. Whats your opinion on him? Is he really too slow to ever make it? Why didnt teams see that in the combine?
 
Boomer I was just wondering what you thought of Brandon Johnson from louisville. This kid is big (6'5") with a around a 6.5 to a 6.55 40 time i heard. I think that he migh tfit pretty good if we use a 3-4 defense because he could play many different positions. I have heard some but not a whole lot on this kid so i was wondering what you thought. do you think we could get him in the third or fourth round and do ou think he would be worth it there.
 
Dolphin$ said:
This kid is big (6'5") with a around a 6.5 to a 6.55 40 time i heard.
Im guessing you mean 4.5 :wink:
 
Becks7 said:
Boomer and Parrothead,

I love your guys passion and knowledge but I live in St. Louis and there is NO WAY Vince Young will end up here. This team has such an insane lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball that there will be a revolt in this town if they take a qb.
It's just not going to happen guys.

It really depends on how much a mandate Scott Linehan receives. I've always gotten the sense that the marriage between Marc Bulger and Mike Martz as well as the St. Louis FO staff has not been perfect and I know Scott is not going to prefer Bulger there.

Scott just had a meeting with Vince Young at the Combine and Vince came away very optimistic about that meeting. He says that Scott Linehan openly called him a "phenom" during the meeting.

You have to remember the Rams have always gotten where they've gotten utilizing that "greatest show on turf" and getting a fast high scoring offense going with an opportunistic, high-pressure, high-turnover defense. In the end, who did they hire as head coach? A defensive specialist? No, they hired an offensive guy that will keep the show going on O. You have to let Scott lay down the groundwork for the offense he wants to run there...and Scott may end up convinced that Vince is THE best way to do that...especially if guys like Michael Huff, AJ Hawk, Mario Williams, Haloti Ngata, and Vernon Davis are off the board. They're not going to go RB, there certainly are no WRs worthy of that selection...they don't need OL. Does Tamba Hali represent great value over Vince Young? Not really. Gabe Watson? Another underachieving DT on a team that's busted out on like 3 different underachieving first round DTs in the last half decade? Jimmy Williams? Chad Greenway? Maybe one of those two, but I think Jimmy's stock will fall before then.

IMO it may come down to Chad Greenway or Vince Young and I KNOW who Scott Linehan will be begging for.
 
Boomer or CK

Well with reports that Vince Young scored a 6 on his Wonderlic test im wondering how much stock do you put into it?

I find the test very stupid as it doesnt measure what you do or how much football knowledge you have on the field, but Id like to know how much you guys put into it?

In lamest terms do you think the test is stupid
 
Hey Boomer, another qb for ya. Is Brett Elliott worth a late second day flier?
 
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