Merged: The John Beck Value Thread | Page 8 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Merged: The John Beck Value Thread

What is John Beck's trade value?

  • 1st rounder

    Votes: 12 4.4%
  • 2nd rounder

    Votes: 6 2.2%
  • 3rd rounder

    Votes: 19 7.0%
  • 4th rounder

    Votes: 54 19.8%
  • 5th rounder

    Votes: 62 22.7%
  • 6th rounder

    Votes: 63 23.1%
  • 7th rounder

    Votes: 35 12.8%
  • no trade value at all

    Votes: 22 8.1%

  • Total voters
    273
I'm not confusing you with anyone, you and WV have quite a history of talking about how bad Beck is.


well show the proof please. I have had opinions but please show me where I wnet out of my way especially in this thread. I expect basically to see nothing from you though because you are making things up.
 
well show the proof please. I have had opinions but please show me where I wnet out of my way especially in this thread. I expect basically to see nothing from you though because you are making things up.

I tried, I can only go back 20 pages and that only gets me to the middle of January, you and WV were quite a tandom back when Henne was drafted and all the Beck bashing took place. If I can get back to the posts that were made right after last years draft I will have no problem posting your bias hate for everyone to read, trust me.

However! This was your opening statement in this thread,


I say he has a value of a 7th round pick just based on his lack of success and his being a third string qb.

Here's where you admit Becks value is low based on his 5 games. It's not hard to come to the conlusion your opinion is based on his 5 games played. Like I said, there isn't one GM, HC or scout that would agree with your opinion here., but it doesn't stop you from saying it.

I just love how you're not in position to even from an opinion based on those facts, but you do it anyways. That tells me you don't give a damn about Becks circumstances, infact you never even say a wrod about Becks circustances just "HIS" lack of success.

As I've stated since day one in this Beck debate, I don't care if we keep trade or relase Beck, I have nothing invested in his success or failure personally. I have a real problem with posts like yours that come to conclusions based on so little. I hope Beck succeeds, I hope he has a healthy NFL career, cause he's the type of person that cares, works hard and does the right things. I don't come to a conlusion on ANY player based on so little and I feel circumstances play a big roll is success or failure, therefore I won't judge too quickly, it's a shame you can't say the same.

I answered your damn question.
 
No, it would take a good preseason & training camp for Beck or a very bad one for Henne or maybe an injury.
In reality both are #2's in the draft & behind Pennington.
I see very little difference in quality or potential between the two.
Let them compete. Competiton is the Elixir of Success!
 
I voted 6th rounder, worse case scenario. I can see Trifecta pulling off a 5th rounder later in the preseason as injuries start piling up around the league.

But if I was a betting man, I would say "if"he was traded he would propably be part of some package of players and or draft picks.
Chubbs
 
I tried, I can only go back 20 pages and that only gets me to the middle of January, you and WV were quite a tandom back when Henne was drafted and all the Beck bashing took place. If I can get back to the posts that were made right after last years draft I will have no problem posting your bias hate for everyone to read, trust me.

However! This was your opening statement in this thread,




Here's where you admit Becks value is low based on his 5 games. It's not hard to come to the conlusion your opinion is based on his 5 games played. Like I said, there isn't one GM, HC or scout that would agree with your opinion here., but it doesn't stop you from saying it.

I just love how you're not in position to even from an opinion based on those facts, but you do it anyways. That tells me you don't give a damn about Becks circumstances, infact you never even say a wrod about Becks circustances just "HIS" lack of success.

As I've stated since day one in this Beck debate, I don't care if we keep trade or relase Beck, I have nothing invested in his success or failure personally. I have a real problem with posts like yours that come to conclusions based on so little. I hope Beck succeeds, I hope he has a healthy NFL career, cause he's the type of person that cares, works hard and does the right things. I don't come to a conlusion on ANY player based on so little and I feel circumstances play a big roll is success or failure, therefore I won't judge too quickly, it's a shame you can't say the same.

I answered your damn question.


You did not give a very good answer. My statement was with his lack of of success. Is there anything that you can say about what Beck has done to this point that would make anyone say he has been a successful qb. You are really way off base. He also is a third string qb, is there any doubt that Henne is the backup. Once again more propaganda from you. So once again show proof of wht you accuse me of. Truth does not represent hate.

He has not been successful in the NFL and he is a third string qb.
 
With the QB class so weak this year, demand is much higher than supply (thanks feelthepain). That can get a choice at least one round possibly 2 higher than you would normally get. I see no reason why the Phins can't get a 3rd or 4th for him. Many teams (Lions, 49ers, Jets, Bills, etc...)are looking for a young QB to groom and Beck fits in to that catagory. Other teams are looking for a backup. This is the year to move him based on lack of availibity in the draft.
 
You did not give a very good answer. My statement was with his lack of of success. Is there anything that you can say about what Beck has done to this point that would make anyone say he has been a successful qb. You are really way off base. He also is a third string qb, is there any doubt that Henne is the backup. Once again more propaganda from you. So once again show proof of wht you accuse me of. Truth does not represent hate.

He has not been successful in the NFL and he is a third string qb.

Maybe you can remind all of us what team Beck played for during his 5 starts, remind us where that team ranked offensively, defensively, overall and what was the final record was of that team and while you're at it remind us again where the HC of the Dolphins at that time is now.

I seem to remember Troy Aikman going 1-15 as a starter and JJ started to put SB talent around him, how'd Troy's career turn out? I'll bet Troy was happy he didn't get trahsed and treated like he was worthless after 5 loses much less 15 in just his first season.

The NFL is full of QB's who had an awful start to their careers but they got other chances and had success. But hey John Beck didn't throw for 500 yards a game and 20 TD's so that must mean he has no ability to play in the NFL. I guess that explains why you're not coaching, scouting or being a GM somewhere.
 
A lot of folks also overlook the fact that his first start was in Philly instead of at home, in Pittsburgh where he battled not only a solid defense but atrocious weather conditions as well. It was a recipe for disaster and no matter who started, they would not succeed on last years team. Especially towards the end of the season with all the injuries.

I am no fan of Beck but I am wise enough to know that starting 5 games on arguably one of the worst teams the NFL has ever seen is not a fair evaluation of his capabilities. To even suggest it is ridiculous.
 
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A lot of folks also overlook the fact that his first start was in Philly instead of at home, in Pittsburgh where he battled not only a solid defense but atrocious weather conditions as well. It was a recipe for disaster and no matter who started, they would not succeed on last years team. Especially towards the end of the season with all the injuries.

I am no fan of Beck but I am wise enough to know that starting 5 games on arguably one of the worst teams the NFL has ever seen is not a fair evaluation of his capabilities. To even suggest it is ridiculous.

And yet there are some here convinced Beck has no value based on that handful of games on that god awful team. We gave up a second round pick for the guy gave him just 5 starts on that awful team and suddenly he's worthless? I can't for the life of me understand the logic?
 
Well everything's relative when it comes to player valuation. Let's compare 2 unproven QBs, Beck and QB "X"


Beck: partial 1 year starting experience
QB X: partial 1 year starting experience

Beck: 6'2", 218 lbs, will be 28 in August
QB X: 6'3", 235 lbs, will be 25 in October

Beck: college: 2nd tier conference competition, won bowl game, 141.2 rating, 74TDs, 79TDs, 62.4% completion 3yr stats, no offensive teammates drafted that year
QB X: college: 1.5t caliber conference, lost all bowl games, 134.5 rating, 58% completion, 95TDs, 4 yr stats, 1 All American receiver throwing to

Beck: Pros: 0 Wins, 5 games, 4 starts, 62% rating, 56% completion rating, 559 yds, 1 TD, 3 Ints, 5.2YPA, no all pro lineman, now learning from one of the smartest QBs in the league
QB X: Pros: 0 Wins, 3 games, 3 starts, 67% rating, 51% completions, 518 yards, 2TDs, 2 Ints, 5.8YPA, did not earn starting job, starting due to injury, protected by probowl caliber OLman among others, no accomplished QB to learn from or emulate

Beck and QB X: drafted within 20 positions of each other

So if one's younger, drafted 20 picks higher, is an inch taller, comes from a more competitive conference with similar stats, but on the other hand, in college has lesser stats, never was able to win a big game, is not learning from or observing a mentor like Pennington, and has very similar unimpressive pro stats...

....the question becomes how much more valuable is QB X than Beck?? 1 draft round, 2, or 3? I can't see him being any more valuable that that based on objective and impartial measurements.

So I guess the answer is: if you think Brady Quinn's still worth a 1st, then Beck's gotta be worth a 4th at worst. If Quinn, more realistically today is worth a second, then at worst Beck commands a 5th. .. and so on. If you think Beck's worth a 7th, then in the hard evaluative glare of the NFL, then Quinn's gotta be worth at best a 4th, right?

So I 'll leave that up to you..but maintain that whatever your answer, Beck is at worst worth 3 less picks to the league.
 
Well everything's relative when it comes to player valuation. Let's compare 2 unproven QBs, Beck and QB "X"


Beck: partial 1 year starting experience
QB X: partial 1 year starting experience

Beck: 6'2", 218 lbs, will be 28 in August
QB X: 6'3", 235 lbs, will be 25 in October

Beck: college: 2nd tier conference competition, won bowl game, 141.2 rating, 74TDs, 79TDs, 62.4% completion 3yr stats, no offensive teammates drafted that year
QB X: college: 1.5t caliber conference, lost all bowl games, 134.5 rating, 58% completion, 95TDs, 4 yr stats, 1 All American receiver throwing to

Beck: Pros: 0 Wins, 5 games, 4 starts, 62% rating, 56% completion rating, 559 yds, 1 TD, 3 Ints, 5.2YPA, no all pro lineman, now learning from one of the smartest QBs in the league
QB X: Pros: 0 Wins, 3 games, 3 starts, 67% rating, 51% completions, 518 yards, 2TDs, 2 Ints, 5.8YPA, did not earn starting job, starting due to injury, protected by probowl caliber OLman among others, no accomplished QB to learn from or emulate

Beck and QB X: drafted within 20 positions of each other

So if one's younger, drafted 20 picks higher, is an inch taller, comes from a more competitive conference with similar stats, but on the other hand, in college has lesser stats, never was able to win a big game, is not learning from or observing a mentor like Pennington, and has very similar unimpressive pro stats...

....the question becomes how much more valuable is QB X than Beck?? 1 draft round, 2, or 3? I can't see him being any more valuable that that based on objective and impartial measurements.

So I guess the answer is: if you think Brady Quinn's still worth a 1st, then Beck's gotta be worth a 4th at worst. If Quinn, more realistically today is worth a second, then at worst Beck commands a 5th. .. and so on. If you think Beck's worth a 7th, then in the hard evaluative glare of the NFL, then Quinn's gotta be worth at best a 4th, right?

So I 'll leave that up to you..but maintain that whatever your answer, Beck is at worst worth 3 less picks to the league.


Nice wrok Vaark, but the school a player plays at is really irrelevant. I know you were trying to come to the most logical conclusion, but that's a stat that really has little value. It's interesting you bring up Brady Quinn, I wonder what the Beck haters think of him. I mean he was drafted almost a full round sooner and has done nothing to this point in time.
 
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