Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by BAMAPHIN 22, Jul 20, 2011.
Yeah I just saw Clayton's article on possible salary cap casualities and he has every team's salary cap info.
I don't see how we're going to be big players in the free agent market if this is accurate. I know if we sign Solai to a long term deal then that will help. Any players with big contracts that might become expendable in people's opinion?? Carey, Polite, Crowder???
Carey would probably be the biggest. He signed a fat contract not to long ago. Remember, Crowder almost didn't resign with us because we weren't going to pay him much. Took having lunch with Zach Thomas to convince him to stay. Man, i wish that lunch never happened...
Also worth noting, teams will have 72 hours to resign their own players before free agency begins. Say we use as much money as possible to keep Wake and Solai, then throw the rest at Ahmad Bradshaw.
Part of the issue with Crowder is that he didn't feel like anyone else was going to give him more than that, and in the mean time, we could have signed someone else to replace him.
I thought we were like 20 mil under cap???
13 million? Thats it.. Who is this "capologist" we hired again... A self proclaimed capologist?
We've been a very aggressive team in spending the last few years. Brandon Marshall and Karlos Dansby got huge deals last year. Solai just got a 12 million dollar franchise tag. Carey signed a huge contract after this regime's first year plus you have Jake Long who became the highest paid Tackle in football after he was drafted number 1.
We're going to have to cut a decent player or two if we want to make a splash in free agency. The 13.6 will probably go down to 7 after we sign our rookies.
I think Carey is a big possibility to get cut. Murtha already said the coaches told him he was going to compete for the starting RT spot. He's got a huge contract and he's been an average RT the last couple of seasons.
Polite and Crowder are options to get cut not because their salary is out of control but because we have capable replacements that are cheaper already on board. We just drafted Clay so I think Polite is expendable. Dobbins is just average but not a huge drop off from Crowder, plus we get Edds coming back from injury this year.
Culver should be cut as well and if we sign Solai to a long term contract than we should have tons of cap room to sign a couple of solid players.
I thought we had more than 13.6. This comes as a surprise to me.
Murtha is going to get blown out of the water in that competition, even by an average Vernon
Wake is not a free agent..
There isn't anyone on this team that deserves a new contract more then Cameron Wake. Next year he will be in the third year of a 4 year deal. We need to lock him down and give him what he has earned.
It appears Free Agency for both Free Agents & Undrafted Rookies will be a bit of chaos, like an After Christmas sale ... with folks lined up early for a wild session of "Let's Make a Deal."
Although the Dolphins have a few Positions (QB & RB) and Current Players they need to lock up ... I think this scramble benefits the Dolphins (& other ave. & lower teams).
Outside of 15 or so solid players ... the Dolphins have the flexibility to upgrade many players if a "Deal" pops up.
Deals will be made, surprises will occur (upgrades or spending alot of $$$) which leads to cutting players ... who then become available ... as everyone tries to upgrade.
May be a decent amount of churning as upgrades are made!!! Heck, we may churn some ave. players with high cap numbers!!
tyron culver, benny sapp, channing crowder, vernon carey, and polite will get cut. that will save us around 15 million.. so, we should have around 25 to spend
I like your list.
We're too thin to "cut" most of them ... but we could "upgrade" them!! Let the churning begin!!
Yup lots can happen. I wouldn't be surprised if they make some trades either.
First of all, Carey's contract wasn't that huge. The year he got the contract, profootballfocus.com had him top 3 amongst RT's in the NFL. 5 million for a guy who plays at a high level and just missed his first few games last year isn't high at all for top tier OL.
If Carey is healthy and at a decent weight there is no reason to even think about moving him. On the other hand, if his knee appears weak and he shows up to camp 30lbs. overweight, you might have to think about it.
I'm quite sure that Vernon, his agent, his family, his friends,and his S&C coaches are all aware that it may be possible that he is released. With that in mind, I think Vernon is going to show up in great shape and play his heart out this year. If he gets cut at his age he isn't going to a another contract close to the one he now has.
The Dolphins don't need to cut their solid RT to have cap room. There are plenty of other guys to cut.
Crowder,Culver,Sapp,Berger,Dobbins,McQuistan, should all be cut IMO. That would create about 10 mil in room.
With the outstanding play of Amaya and Jones, and the decent play of Carroll and Ness, and the return of Will Allen, Sapp and Culver are totally obsolete. Crowder and Dobbins really suck! they must be replaced. Dolphins could move Misi inside and Edds returns healthy, and Spitler and Rivera are a couple of big athletic youngsters with upside as well.
Berger should be tradable. With Pouncey starting and Incognito available to slide over and Garner available in a pinch, Berger is expendable, and he should bring a decent pick. He is a lot better than this site gives him credit for. He wasn't ranked in the top ten last year, but he wasn't ranked in the bottom ten either. I'd guess somewhere between 4th-6th, depending on circumstance. Example: If Sendlien leaves AZ during free agency they are up the crick in a big way. They would be desperate as there is nothing much available as far as centers in free agency and this year's draft class was a joke. Dolphins could get a 4th in those circumstances IMO.
I doubt Polite could replaced for less. Polite will stay another year. Polite has converted 20 of 20 third and fourth down short yardage 1st downs. That is phenomenal.
The cap will be more like 130 mil and I am very confident Soliai will be signed to a long term deal that is more cap friendly.
Dolphins will be huge players in the market for a RB and 2 or even 3 outside LB's depending on if they make an offer to Moses or not.
They will have the cap space to bring in D.Williams, Manny Lawson and Mathias Kiwanuka. That would be enough to make me a believer in a playoff experience.
We are in pretty good shape fellas...teams like Dallas and the Jets are the ones who are hurting.
WOW its hard to belive we are in good shape i cant remember when we had capspace to sign FA players its been a long time sice we had cap space to play with lol
L.Polite's most important job is to run block for whoever is the feature back and he struggled at it last year. I realize the conversions were impressive but not enough to keep him, I'd much rather bring in V.Leach for more money and see the results in our run game. I believe Polite's struggles to run block were as big a factor in our poor run game as was the poor play of the injured oline.
If were gonna really help Henne out with a strong run game then a real FB is a smart upgrade and not a real expensive move either.
I would like for miami to restructure Carey, sign mankins to solidify our o line. Then henne won't have any excuses. I think they can cut crowder or restructure him as well. Please cut sapp, do not sign Ricky or Ronnie. Bradshaw or Williams will be great. I like we were smart during an uncapped year and don't forget, roster cuts will increase our spending. The jets are screwed
Hold on, I thought our FO were a bunch of incompetent a$$holes. This can't be accurate.
Man are you dreaming. Leach is the premiere FB in the NFL these days. PFF had him ranked 6th amongst FA RB's and FB's. He was the only FB on the list. And you think he will be inexpensive????
He will end up returning to Houston or signing with one of these teams that are forced to spend more money to get up to the cap spending floor. Polite may get beaten out by Clay or Hilliard, if they even use them at FB this year, but I would be shocked if they tried to sign Leach. They may very well bring in a rookie free agent to compete, or to just put on the PS, but I doubt Polite loses his position this year.
why is it when we talk about cutting people.. carey is first on their list?
I can't speak for others
But, for me, he doesn't play well enough to even come close to justifying his pay. He has had physical issues the last few years right?
The main thing for me though, is his attitude. When Long was possibly gonna miss a game he pretty much refused to move to LT if they needed him to.
Inflated contract, medical issues and not willing to do what it takes to help the team.... That equates to cya later for me.
Right tackles have to be really good to be worth a lot of money because it's not difficult to replace them and still get mediocre play at the position.
Someone I know in coaching (high school) disagrees with me but I also think that Carey is not best suited for the kinds of run plays that Daboll will install. Not that I think he'll be BAD in those plays, they're just not the kinds of plays where he can be great, and so it limits his value.
I don't know that you have an accurate account of what Vernon Carey said about the possibility of moving to left tackle in place of Jake Long. I know that Carey has been reluctant to move around after how his career started, but I don't think he would or did flat out refuse anyone.
I think that whether we think it's a good thing or not, the Dolphins are thinking about it. There was a lot of language coming out from people like Dan Henning and whatnot (whose opinion I'm sure was shared) that expressed frustration with Carey's inconsistency. When a guy is making like $6 million or $7 million a year, and you start hearing coaches talk about "When he's on, he's good, but..." then you know the guy is in danger. So that I think is why we fans keep ending up talking about him...because we sense the Dolphins are thinking about it.
I don't know how accurate Clayton's number is or whatever, but as I understand it there are complicating factors in the form of cap credits and whatnot, and so the truth of how much space they have is probably known only to the Dolphins. I don't think you'd ever see the Dolphins acquire more than two big names in an off season so I just kind of take it like that, they have enough room to be doing what they normally would want to be doing. I imagine they'd take up a DeAngelo Williams, Ahmad Bradshaw or (unfortunately) Reggie Bush, and then still try and make their push for Carson Palmer, Kyle Orton or Donovan McNabb. I still have a tough time reasoning that they'd go for Vince Young, just seems really out of character for them as far as the whole leadership/work ethic thing is concerned. With whatever they have left over I'd expect they show interest in a pass rusher. I'm still hoping Antwan Barnes. Seems like a good value pick. Can help with 3rd down rush.
I'm not sure if these are totally accurate but these are what spotrac shows for player contract cap #'s for 2011.
Carey $5.85 million
Crowder $ 2.5 million
Sapp $ 1.7 million
Dobbins $1.7 million
Culver $1.25 million
Polite $1.24 million
Berger $800 K
Moore $ 490 K
Pruitt $415 K
Carey's cap number is pretty high this year (but not for a top 5 RT). I just don't see him being cut if he shows up to camp in shape. He will only be 30 years old this year so he could have a lot of good years left in this league. He's got to know he won't ever see money like the one he got in his recent contract so one would think he would come to camp prepared. Maybe though it can be restructured.
Crowder really isn't that big of a cap hit either. Until some other linebacker on the roster proves they are a better replacement he isn't going anywhere.
As for the rest I would be very worried about being cut.
Polite could replaced by Clay at FB/H-Back
Sapp could be replaced by Allen/Carroll at the nickel.
Culver could be replaced by Amaya/Jones/Wilson on ST's and 6 DB packages.
Dobbins could be replaced by Edds.
Berger could be replaced by Pouncey.
More and Pruitt could be replaced by Gates.
Those cuts right there would provide the team with an extra $7.5 million in cap space. Couple that in with signing Soliai to a long/term restructured deal and we could easily be $20 million under the cap before free-agency starts. This would give us plenty of money to sign a high priced RB to compliment Daniels, a QB to compete with Henne, and OLB to compliment Wake.
The only guys among them that I could see being cut would be Carey and Sapp. Otherwise it doesn't make enough sense to cut those other guys.
I guess I am one of the few who likes Carey. No he's not a Jake Long or even in the top 5 to 7 of RT's but he is in the top 15 IMO. When healthy, he is more than capable of holding down the right side of the line. Perhaps his money is too large to deal with but it would be hard, not impossible, to find a RT as good as he is. But what do I know I'm just a fan.
I do agree it's time for Crowder to go and we have Dobbins and Edds to step in his place. Perhaps even Misi if the FO wants to go after a big time pass rusher to put opposite Wake. This is going to be like a Christmas for football fans when it all starts!
The Reason that we will have Cap Space is because we have finally been able to find cheaper FA signings and effectively Draft Starters!!! Wanny ruined this team by giving away picks for bums and picking based on need, instead of best player available. Eddie Moore and Seth Mckinney were terrible and desperate reaches!!! Jamar Fletcher???? Drew Brees was the best player available and also a need but Wanny thought we needed a 1st rd nickle back!!! You win Super Bowls through the Draft. The Steelers, Green Bay, Colts, and Saints built their teams through the Draft and use FA to supplement their needs. Thats how you balance the Cap, by paying rookie salaries instead of filling the roster with average players that make 3 million a year!!! This Regime takes a lot of heat for wasted draft picks and not producing a Winner, and rightfully so. They rarely get credit for good drafts and making this roster 10 times better than it was when they took over the Team. The only difference between the talent of our team and the the talent of the last 5 teams to win the Super Bowl is a Franchise QB....... Thats it!!! I just hope Henne can turn it around and become the QB we thought he was capable of becoming after the 09 season.
if it wasnt for the uncapped year we would have still been screwed :hclap:
just seen in the proposal that the salary cap if agreed upon by the players is going to be 142.4 mil for each club i hope this is one that holds up it will help us alot more if so
I'm in the camp that feels that V. Carey is a very good RT that should be an elite, HOF RT. However, the talk of cutting him makes my head spin. Our line was pathetic last year and the tackles were the only bright spot.
If you cut salary on the line in order to add at the RB position, good luck. History has shown this works out well. Please name an effective runner with a sh&# Oline outside of Barry Sanders and W. Payton. E. Smith is the all-time rushing champ because of O-line. Look at J. Bettis stats with the Rams Oline vs Steelers Oline. Paying $ for a FA RB is unwise as history can backp up.
It hurts me to say it but I completely agree that Lousaka Polite will be gone
It's only going to be 120 million, but there's also going to be two provisions allowing an extra 6.5 million of cap space although 3 million of it would been borrowed from a future year.
There are 10 teams with over $30M in cap space, so we really aren't in that good shape. With Long, Marshall, Dansby, and Soliai, we have 4 guys that are at the top of the pay scales for their positions. It's hard to commit that much in money to 4 players and be in great salary cap shape. As for cutting Carey, he got a $12M signing bonus, spread out over the life of the contract (6 years). We cut him now, we take an $8M hit on the remaining part of his signing bonus that hasn't been counted against the cap yet. We'd save $6M on his cap number this year, but the net effect would be an additional hit of $2M. So, he won't be cut until next year at the earliest.
This is what I would do.
Derrick Locke RB Kentucky
Wesley Saunders TE South Carolina
Mark Herzlich LB Boston College
Vernon Carey O-Line
Lou Polite FB
Tyron Culver S
Benny Sapp CB
Ahmad Bradshaw or Deangleo Williams
Marshall Yanda or Logan Mankins if he is a free agent
Donovan Mcnabb but first try and trade for Carson
Antwan Barnes if we have left over money
People may disagree with McNabb but he seemed to have one bad year on a terrible team and everyone thinks he is done. Sign him cheap and give him a shot because we can provide him help.
I think your on fantasy island
i agree 100% with you bro if we cant get palmer get mcnabb on the cheap and roll the dice
---------- Post added at 03:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:55 PM ----------
why you think that ?
We need to sign Bradshaw and a QB, hopefully Orton first. Then a solid guard. Defensively we just need a LB, and we can even bring JT back at the vet minimum for depth. So RB, QB, LG, LB would be my order. We can't cut Carey because he is solid. He's not great by any means, but he gets the job done. He does however have to restructure, which I think he will. If Crowder doesn't restructure we should cut him too. Get another starting caliber LB. Ross wants to build a winner, he want to create a buzz around the team. I'm pretty confident we will be big players in FA and we will get Bradshaw and either Orton or Young.
I'd take McNabb
How is that? McNabb and Barnes is cheap. After the Cuts we will have plenty of money to give a RB and a Lineman a good contract.
Number one, keep in mind that the $13.6M below the cap doesn't include any of our draft picks or our own free agents. It's going to take approximately $6M to sign the draft picks, and then another couple million to re-sign Nate Garner, Lex Hilliard, Kory Sheets, and likely at least one of Lydon Murtha or Pat McQuistan. That leaves maybe $6M for free agency.
As for the suggested cuts, cutting Vernon Carey would actually reduce our room under the cap by $2M. Because we'd have to accelerate $8M of his signing bonus on to this year's cap, cutting him costs us $2M. That brings us to $4M under the cap. Cutting Sapp, Culver, and Polite saves about $3M. Again, their signing bonuses have to be factored in, so the savings aren't as much as they may look when you just look at their salaries. That brings us to $7M under the cap.
The market for Logan Mankins alone is around $10M per season. Carson Palmer has a $12M salary. Yanda can expect to get a deal worth about $5M per season. Bradshaw and Williams can each probably expect deals worth at least $5M per season, maybe more.
Heck, we offered Tyler Thigpen a $1.9M tender to come back, and he's going to test the open market. Any sort of decent backup QB is going to cost at least $2M per season. And that's for the Matt Moore type of backup QB.
Soliai will get a long term deal and bring it right back to $14M.. There likely will be more restructuring with other players bringing in more cap room. And possibly another cut or two that we don't foresee.
It's very unlikely that any of the biggest targets this off-season might come cheap, so you're right.
Having in mind that unless something weird happens, Donovan McNabb will ask something close to $14 million for 2011, signing bonus included, with our current salary cap, it's almost impossible to consider him as an option for Miami.
Then as Carson Palmer is jaded of Bengals FO his price tag is a matter for fortune tellers, as it might be varying from $910,000 (veteran minimum) to something above $11.5 million (his current contract salary for 2011) for the season plus signing bonus.
But the biggest cost on him is linked to draft picks, as Cincinnati is playing hard about him looking decided to let him retire before trading him, so a cheap trade looks almost impossible. Think on a pair of first rounders to make it happen, nothing close to our FO ideas.
I think it's just going to be hard for us to get any big names this offseason. We're not that far under the cap, plus with the minimum salary floor back into effect, there are going to be a lot of teams that are far below the cap that need to spend money just to get within that.
Thank goodness FOOTBALL BACK
NOW I CAN POST...........
Actually, I think the number speculated by Clayton already included a deduction for the rookie pool to pay our draft picks. If it didn't, it doesn't make sense.
So again, If Soliai gets a long term contract, and Berger is traded, and Crowder,Mcquistan,Sapp,Culver,and perhaos one other veteran is traded or cut, the Dolphins will be looking at 25 to 30 mil with the exemption.
That is plenty of money to extend Langford and Wake, and to sign D.Williams,Manny Lawson , Mathias Kiwanuka, and 6-10 rookie free agents like Marc Schiechl,Blaine Sumner,Derrick Locke,Nic Grigsby,Mike Huey, Mario Harvey.
Armando Salguero broke it down in his blog last week, too. The Fins have $109.5M in committed salary. The cap is $120M with a $3M exception added in for this year. So, there you have it, $13.6M under the cap. And that does not include the draft picks or our own free agents. The draft picks are going to amount to about $6M in signings, and resigning Hilliard, Sheets, Garner, and one of McQuistan/Murtha is going to add a little over $2M. That's going to leave roughly $6M for free agency.
get paul a new deal and extend guys and we are good