MiamiDolfan85 Miami Mock(first 4 rounds)

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by MiamiDolfan85, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. MiamiDolfan85

    MiamiDolfan85 DA M.I.A IS WHERE I STAY

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    1.)Sam Montgomery, DE out of LSU(6'6",262)
    [​IMG]
    [Outside of Cam Wake, we have absolutely no pass rush. I mean, its evident Jared Odrick is playing way out of position in this 43. He needs to be moved inside, where I think he'd be much more effective. Montgomery, IMO, is the most athletic linemen coming out next to Mingo. Werner I fear will be gone the time the 'Phins select, but their really 1.a, 1.b. The drop off isn't much at all.

    Montgomery has everything you look for in a 43 DE. He has size, strength, gerth, and speed. He has a decent bull rush but a lethal speed rush in his arsenal. Sort of looks like the type of DE the Giants covet in their 43. The only problem is that he can work on his consistency. His motor is apparant but he can make more of a presence throughout the whole game. But he is solid against the run. Very discipline, good I.Q, and seems to have a genuine love for the game. The label "future Pro Bowler" could and should be applied to Montgomery. As I think he could step in and duplicate the same rookie season Aldon Smith had.]


    2.)Robert Lester, S out of Alabama(6'2",212)
    [​IMG]
    [The overhaul in the secondary begins with this guy. Lester possesses good ball skills and shows good range. Should make for a good safety tandem with Reshad Jones. He can play deep, come in the box, blitz, play at linebacker, cover TE's. I mean, there isn't one thing he does great besides tackle, but he's good at just about everything else. Should have no problem coming in as a starter as a rookie.]

    2b.)Logan Ryan, CB out of Rutgers(6'0",192)
    [​IMG]
    [Ryan is probably the most fluid corner coming out of this draft... Led his team with 14 pass deflections, and had 4 picks on the season. Ryan follows a long line of good corners from Rutgers football program(McCourty brothers for example). Logan at worst is a decent no. 2. I think he has the talent to be a very good starter in the league.]

    3.)Stedman Bailey, WR out of West Virginia(5'10",195)
    [​IMG]
    [Stedman Bailey is about as explosive as it gets at his position. Just a natural playmaker. Not very big, but he more than makes up for that with his fearless play. Kind of reminds me of a smaller Desean Jackson(if possible). Could offer something in the return game aswell as carrying the rock a few times. Very versatile player who can do numerous things]

    3b.)Ricky Wagner, RT out of Wisconsin(6'6",318)
    [​IMG]
    [Really good right tackle. I'm kind of expecting Miami to let go of Jake Long in the off season, move Martin to LT and groom him. Bring in Wagner on the right side, and try and sign a good LG to replace Incognito(at least I'm hoping so). Wagner looks the part, I just personally hope they make him shed about 10 lbs. in OTA's.]

    4.)Chris Harper, WR out of Kansas St(6'1",228)
    [​IMG]
    [Chris Harper brings a lot to your football team. He catches of course, but he is an above average blocker for a wide out. From a body frame standpoint, he's huge. Skill set comparable of Anquan Boldin or James Jones. Runs crisp routes consistenly. Not a burner in the least, but he is more than fast enough to be effective. Should be a solid no. 3 or 4
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2012
  2. MiamiDolfan85

    MiamiDolfan85 DA M.I.A IS WHERE I STAY

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    the offensive talent in this draft is just not very good....We'd be making a mistake taking some of these players on offense, when theres even better players available on defense that are also needs. Might as well load up on the BPA at all our early picks.
     
  3. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    I think this draft should be defense heavy . . . I know that sounds crazy, but outside of drafting a WR the first 2 days . . . I'd stack up on defense. I'd hope Werner fell in our laps over Montgomery but I do like the Lester pick if we aren't moving Marshall to FS.
     
  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    When I look at Sam Montgomery, I see Ray Edwards. But worse.
     
  5. MiamiDolfan85

    MiamiDolfan85 DA M.I.A IS WHERE I STAY

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    no one in this draft is that bad....
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    It's not popular but I wonder if corner is just such a glaring weakness that we may just have to come to grips with Dee Milliner being potentially the most likely choice at #11 or #13 or wherever we pick (assuming we get to 6-10). Taking a corner is never really popular for fans because it's more of a preventative decision...but it might be the most likely choice. Richard Marshall was not very good when he played, and then he got hurt, and he's only got I believe one more year left under contract anyway. Nolan Carroll is in the doghouse. R.J. Stanford isn't exactly the answer. Jimmy Wilson has been mostly a liability as a corner.

    And in the end the mile-high view of it just makes sense. The Dolphins struck out on Vontae Davis, were forced to jettison him, so now they've got to replace him.

    I haven't seen too many (read: none whatsoever) fan mocks that begin with Dee Milliner at #11 or #13 overall, but it may be a possibility that needs exploring.
     
  7. dolfin530

    dolfin530 Student of the Game

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    Don't like the Sam Montgomery pick. Physically gifted but that's it. Can't seem to get of blocks well at all.
     
  8. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    Well that's just it, one of the overlooked things about getting rid of Vontae was losing a physical speciman at CB that had 2 cheap years left under contract and not having to force yourself into a CB come round 1 in the 2013 draft when we could use a Keenan Allen or a Bjorn Werner. Now Dee Milner becomes a very realistic possibility in this draft and you pretty much have to resign Sean Smith, whether you wanted to or not.

    I'd actually think come draft time he'll be a favorite along with one of the WR's as the first round pick. I seriously could see us resigning Starks and keeping Odrick at DE and taking MIlner, rather than drafting a DE and moving Odrick inside and rolling with Sean Smith, Nolan Carroll, Richard Marshall, Jimmy Wilson and a 2nd/3rd round pick.
     
  9. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i don't think montgomery is even on the level pass rusher of ray edwards...although i do see a lot of similarities in their game...lester in the top 50...heck no...like the bailey pick...no to dee milliner with the top pick also...although he has played very well

    i don't get the carroll in the doghouse stuff but he was out a lot the other day replaced by stanford i believe...i think miami would be smart to lock carroll up on the cheap now...like a tyrone culver extension years ago...3 years $5 mil type stuff...
     
  10. MiamiDolfan85

    MiamiDolfan85 DA M.I.A IS WHERE I STAY

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    its wishful thinking that Milliner will make it out of the top 10....he's among just about everybodies top 7 picks in recent mocks.
     
  11. MiamiDolfan85

    MiamiDolfan85 DA M.I.A IS WHERE I STAY

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    Some of the same things some have said about Sam Montgomery are the same things they said about Jason Pierre-Paul when he came out....


    but we'll see a few years down the line...
     
  12. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    I like taking the corner in round one. The pass D is not good and next year's sked has much better passers on the slate.

    I am not sure what will be left behind in the form of a pass rusher at 12ish.

    Cordarrelle Patterson interests me as well. I think he can be a big time target.
     
  13. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    Patterson obviously has to come out.
     
  14. 2413fanphins

    2413fanphins A True Fan

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    Im not at all in favor of milliner in round one. Give me and edge rusher or wide receiver all day long in round one and ill grab
    trufant or hawthorne with one of my next two picks.

    Even if we beat jax, there is a real possibility we lose to buf and pats putting us right back in the werner
    discussion.
     
  15. Canadi-Phin

    Canadi-Phin I hate everyone else in the AFC East

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    Interesting you think there is better next year. Other than Clowney who else do you like next year. Patterson really interests me. I love the way he moves in the open field. I like his wiggle more than anyone else.
     
  16. Kevlared

    Kevlared Well-Known Member

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    i dont understand the love affair for bailey that many on this board. i think he will be a solid SLOT receiver. something that we already have. we need a big athlete who can make plays on the outside at the wr position. (Allen, Hunter, Patterson, Williams)
     
  17. Pinkboy

    Pinkboy A True Fan

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    Hate the pick. Montgomery is another Derrick Morgan (who I hated in that draft if you remember while a lot of people here liked him)


    You don't invest your 1st rounders on Derrick Morgan types. And that's what Montgomery is, and will be.
     
  18. Canadi-Phin

    Canadi-Phin I hate everyone else in the AFC East

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    No he's a slot on speed. Bess does not have that. Bess is a nice player but we can do better. Bailey could be like Cruz just shorter. Playmaker.
     
  19. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    Bess is a serviceable slot WR but in today's game you need an explosive slot WR. If lacking on the outside wasn't such a big glaring hole I definitely would want to upgrade Davone Bess in the slot. Bailey definitely reminds me of Steve Smith.
     
  20. Birdmond

    Birdmond FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    This man knows. As much as I admire Bess , his lack of speed just kills Miami's offense. The guy must be replaced.
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I could see it either way. It will depend on the signs Miami is giving off. I could see Miami doing a pretty decent sell job that after re-signing Sean Smith and combining him with Richard Marshall, they're essentially taken care of at the position, and that the problem for 2012 was just that Richard Marshall got hurt. It seems under-recognized how bad Marshall was really playing as a perimeter corner before he got hurt, and so I think a lot of people could end up forgetting that.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    The Carroll-for-Stanford thing has been happening for three games. Carroll was playing nearly all snaps in a game right up until that 4 penalty abortion of a performance against the Bills. Starting with the Cincinnati game he got 416 out of 438 possible snaps (95%). Since the Buffalo disaster he's taken 109 of a possible 199 snaps (55%) and R.J. Stanford has been the primary beneficiary.

    The sense I get is that they're frustrated with him and he's on the outs, and the only reason he's still in on 55% of the snaps is because the only other options are Jimmy Wilson (whom they can't decide whether should be a safety or nickel corner) and R.J. Stanford (whom they picked up off waivers mid-year).
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Well I'm with ya on not liking Montgomery, but do you realize that Derrick Morgan is actually playing really well in Tennessee? He's the best pass rusher in arguably the best pass rushing unit in the NFL.

    ---------- Post added at 01:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:46 PM ----------

    If I'm trying to see "it" on Sam Montgomery it would obviously be:

    1) He's cut from stone for the position, like straight out of central casting

    2) He's a pretty strong guy

    3) Impressive second gear

    But outside of that I'm not seeing it.
     
  24. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    I think if you're the type that favors speed and athleticism over consistency and ability to get the job done on a down-to-down basis, you're not going to be particularly fond of Montgomery. Naturally, you're going to be drawn more towards kids like Mingo or Dion Jordan. What I like about Montgomery is that when physical, NFL style games along the line of scrimmage break out in the SEC, Montgomery is the guy that's able to handle it. He's the one making plays in these type of games for LSU's defensive line. LSU was in a battle with Auburn in a game where Auburn played over their head, and the game was going to be won or lost at the line of scrimmage... LSU won by 2... Montgomery caused that safety at the point of attack. Against an offensive line like Alabama, Montgomery was the only guy who could hang in there physically and make plays with a key sack and TFL while some of his raw teammates are invisible. Again, I think it goes back to analyzing guys who are able to accumulate "college sacks" versus guys who can physically stand up in trench warfare.
     
  25. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i'd rather roll with carroll on the boundary any day than with richard marshall...i don't get why carrolls in the doghouse...he got called for some ticky tack stuff against buffalo...didn't get away with anything...

    for my money he's the one boundary corner on this roster who's future i would be encouraged about...

    i don't even remember seeing wilson on the field against san fran...guess he was out with injury...anyways he's definitely showing like a tweener
     
  26. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i don't think sam montgomery will ever rush the passer with any consistency at the next level...i'm not a in love with woerner guy but if i had to choose between the two i believe i n woerners rush talents a whole lot more than i do montgomerys...i see montys pass rush upside as that of maybe 5 sacks per year...not worth the pick investment for me...i see a lot of wasted 3rd downs with him on the field
     
  27. MiamiDolfan85

    MiamiDolfan85 DA M.I.A IS WHERE I STAY

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    I'd be willing to bet anything he'll have 5 sacks his rookie season by week 5(assuming hes starting)

    and you can quote me on that
     
  28. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    There's no way to accurately determine a sack ceiling on a prospect, it depends on how they're used. Chavis' defense is a contain defense that funnels the play towards the linebackers as opposed to a spill. The DE's are required to maintain leverage on the football and play within a certain standard of discipline... which is why Mingo is a part time player and Lavar Edwards is the starter in certain packages (4-2-5 for example). The DE's read and react to the block by the offensive line. If the offensive lineman base blocks for example, the DE is required to engage and undercut the block.. maintaining leverage. They'll only use their speed to squeeze down into the tackle's hip and run down the LOS, especially if they're unblocked (Mingo vs. the zone read, etc.) The linebackers read the triangle (guard-to-guard-to-back) as their keys... if a guard pulls, they scrape over the top and follow. The linebackers are the one's required to spill the play outside with the safeties filling the allies. The run fits are first and foremost if you're going to play defense in the SEC. I remember an extremely athletic DE/LB that played under Chavis when he was the defensive coordinator at Tennessee back in the 90's by the name of Leonard Little.... which is essentially who Mingo reminds me of in Chavis' defense. Difference being Mingo is much more raw at playing defense and football in general. It took Little a few years in the NFL to put on the required weight in order to function effectively as a defender in the NFL, which is what Mingo will be required to do. Little was a force once he was able to do that, and I think Mingo has similar upside.
     
  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I saw Montgomery's game against Alabama and I wasn't impressed. Consistently slow off the snap (as per usual), had trouble getting off blocks except for one or two occasions, not active with his hands, was successfully blocked by tackles, guards on the pull, guards in pass pro when he lined up at tackle, even tight ends. Had trouble retracing without getting caught up in trash. The one sack he did get looked pretty fortuitous to me, as the left tackle didn't even realize he'd have help with a chip block on Montgomery's outside shoulder and so the tackle turned his pads perpendicular to the line of scrimmage and got himself tangled in the chip block that was supposed to help him.

    He just always ends up looking like a guy that "can play in this league" but not one that's going to be an impact player. If he's worthy of a top 10 type of pick as a defensive end (and maybe he is, who knows) then Cyrus Kouandjio is the next Willie Roaf and Michael Williams is the next Jason Peters.

    Of course it can be difficult to tell sometimes because he lines up a yard off the ball like a CFL player.
     
  30. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    as long as i can quote you on that jpp stuff...of which tools and athletically wise montgomery can't sniff

    b/t guys that left tackle for bama cyrus whatever his name is that kid looks special to me down the line...i really like him...might be the best player on that line already...
     
  31. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Cyrus Kouandjio is one of the elite left tackles in college football. We moved an All-American left tackle to Center in order to get Kouandjio there despite only being a sophomore. One area Fluker tends to struggle is pass protection and owns Mingo. Damontre Moore is a kid that I view as a legitimate top 10 prospect, where as Montgomery is a kid that's as good of a player as any of the DE's that may go in the 1st round in my estimation.
     
  32. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    that left tackle that wr amare cooper and the rb yelton all special talents for bama...all top 10 picks imo...
     
  33. MarshallFin1

    MarshallFin1 A True Fan

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    just watched some tape on montgomery, im not impressed at all.
     
  34. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Evidently I wouldn't have to worry about very many taking this kid out from under me.... he'd fall to me in the 4th round. I'll take it.
     
  35. finsfanjay13

    finsfanjay13 Rookie Donator

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    May have already been said (I didn't read the whole thread), but how do you consider Stedman Bailey a *smaller* DeSean Jackson? He's bigger than DeSean Jackson is. Tavon Austin is the one who reminds me of a smaller DeSean Jackson, but from what I've seen, DeSean Jackson may just be a poor man's Tavon Austin.
     
  36. finsfanjay13

    finsfanjay13 Rookie Donator

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    I definitely think a corner is needed, but just don't know if there's that Claiborne/Peterson type guy out there that would make fans salivate. Granted, he probably wouldn't be available at #11 or #13 if there was.

    Personally, I like Jordan Poyer and think he may be available in Round 2. If not, then another CB will be.

    Honestly, I've had trouble pin pointing exactly who I'd want in the first with the players whom will most likely be available. But the best DE, CB, WR, or if a stud like Te'o falls, then I'll be okay. I just don't want another lineman. I recognize the possibility is there for that, unfortunately.
     
  37. MiamiDolfan85

    MiamiDolfan85 DA M.I.A IS WHERE I STAY

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    I read it was Barrett Jones, not Cyrus who contained Montgomery but who cares, it was one game. I remember a year ago Patriot fans were jawing about how Nate Solder shut down Cam Wake the whole game. It's not like Dolphins nation was like, "oh, Cam is losing it" or he's garbage or whatever. No. Solder just had one good game against him, so what. Wake has a body of work(All Pro, 1 time Pro Bowl selection;on pace for another), just like Montgomery(only DE on the team last year to earn First Team All-SEC w/ 13.5 sacks). Trust me, they just down hand those out to scrubs. Name 2 more tackles in the country that's had that kind of sucess against Montgomery.



    ....I'll wait
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2012
  38. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i suggest you get your hands on the a & m lsu tape and the matchup against ots luke joeckel and jake matthews...who were dominant...
     
  39. MiamiDolfan85

    MiamiDolfan85 DA M.I.A IS WHERE I STAY

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    I'll give you Joeckel, because he primarily matched up against him but give me tape where Matthews dominated cause Im not seeing it
     
  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    If it's a corner then for my money the best one in the Draft is probably Dee Milliner. Best combination of pure movement skills, ball skills, physicality and aggressiveness, etc. Has good size too. Not shutdown but then, who is? Biggest problem for me isn't "shutdown", it's actually lack of discipline in tackling support angles.
     
  41. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    It wasn't Barrett Jones who contained Montgomery in that game, it was definitely Kouandjio. Except for one play where Cyrus seemed to not realize he'd have the help of a back chipping on Montgomery's outside shoulder. Montgomery took advantage of the tangle by spinning back to the inside.

    Kouandjio looked great to me and I'm sure he'll be a high quality tackle prospect. But it wasn't just Cyrus that got the better of Sam that day. Michael Williams the tight end did as well. As did pulling guards, or guards when they had Montgomery in straight one on one when Sam lined up at DT.

    Hey a bad day can be a bad day, no big deal. But I studied a lot of Sam Montgomery in 2011 and came away equally frustrated and underwhelmed.
     
  42. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    I've always subscribed to Saban's theory when it comes to the "shutdown" label on a corner.... there's no such thing. A perfect throw beats perfect coverage. If a CB is shutting down one side of the field, it's because of you not him. It's your choice to avoid that side of the field and not throw at him.
     
  43. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i don't know darrelle revis was pretty dang shut down for a while there...

    i also agree with the tackling angles in support with milliner can be suspect at times...i think he can be a little suspect in off man also...and i'm not sure i see great ball awareness and ball skills...i don't to date at least see a top 5 worthy pick corner anywhere in this class...not like in years past
     
  44. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    If you don't take a WR round 1/early 2nd I don't see how you can pass up Swope in round 3.


    Even if we take a top WR id still want Swope. We wont get him but its a nice idea.
     
  45. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i think you can get swope in round 3...i'd feel pretty confident about it actually...but i guess you'd be rolling with 2 primarily slots in your wr core with swope and bess...not sure how smart i think that is...

    but i do like swope...and he would fit this o very well...very smart football player knows how to read coverage and run routes accordingly and i think faster than people think...maybe late 4.5's range

    not as quick twitch though as many other slots in the league though...
     
  46. Austin Tatious

    Austin Tatious Starter

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    I just don't see Swope as filling a need, he feels like more of the same. Tannehill needs to be more comfortable in the middle of the field, and I would do that with a huge TE target or a receiver who can really separate and give him bigger windows. At receiver, I think they need a stretch the field burner AND a tall red zone threat. That's three receiving weapons I see as needs, and Swope doesn't fill any of the voids to me. Not saying he is a bad player.
     
  47. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    Yea I get that with Bess on the roster it would be a bit of a luxury pick. I dunno though (I hesitate to say this due to the "white receiver image) but I kind of see him in a Welker role. Not super fast or super strong but just making a tonne of catches all over the place, the fact he is literally our quarterbacks best friend is a big factor in why I want him as well, chemistry never hurts!


    Just think with this offense we need several ultra dependable guys like Bess as much as we need a superstar stud. I guess the fact he is a slot receiver may be enough to pass on him though.
     
  48. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    What Milliner has in the way of ball skills is the ability to get his head around and find the ball while maintaining position on the run. He can do it when it's not easy. If you have that ability I think you have the makings of making some plays on the football.
     
  49. SR 7

    SR 7 A True Fan

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    If u have a top 10 pick u make sure u get Te'o u don't go for just CB need. He will be an instant impact. Id love him at1 if not Elam than go with Rodgers in rd 2 and eritz TD 2. I'd take Wallace in FA with grimes and draft a T and CB in round 3. But then again we have Ireland so I expect 99% opposite such as FA WR that's in tier 2-3 like ogletree and a T in rd 2
     

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