More analysis that Matt Ryan, not Jake Long, should’ve been the pick in 2008

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by BAMAPHIN 22, Apr 12, 2012.

  1. BAMAPHIN 22

    BAMAPHIN 22 FinHeaven Elite

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    This kind of feels like beating a dead horse at this point, but NFL Films executive producer Greg Cosell has a great column out today about the most valuable positions in today’s NFL.Cosell writes that quarterback, pass rusher and cornerback are the three most important positions, and that a good quarterback can mask the inefficiencies of his offensive line. The Dolphins, of course, took Long over Ryan, and while Long has been named to four straight Pro Bowls, the Dolphins are just 31-33 in his four seasons with only one playoff berth. Ryan, meanwhile, has led the Falcons to the playoffs in three of his four seasons.As Cosell writes:Think about this: the past four Super Bowl-winning left tackles were David Diehl (a former fifth-round pick at guard), Chad Clifton (second round), Jermon Bushrod (fourth round) and Max Starks (third round). The quarterbacks on those championship teams were Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees and Ben Roethlisberger, each likely on anyone’s short list of the top quarterbacks in the NFL.We can debate how well those tackles played in those given seasons, but there’s a larger context. Is there a correlation between the quarterback position and the left tackle position? Can the argument be made that left tackle decreases in relative importance the better the quarterback, and is therefore less of a priority? Last season, Marshall Newhouse, a fifth-round pick in 2010, started 10 games at left tackle for the Packers. He struggled individually much of the season. It had little impact on Rodgers’ efficiency, or the overall performance of Green Bay’s offense.The elite quarterbacks camouflage and compensate for offensive line deficiencies in many ways. They do it before the snap of the ball with their understanding of defensive pressure schemes and the pass protection adjustments that must then result. They do it after the snap with their decision making, their advanced sense of timing and anticipation, and their ability to move in the pocket to minimize and negate the pass rushhttp://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedailydolphin/2012/04/12/miami-dolphins-notebook-cameron-wake-continues-to-sit-out-while-dolphins-check-out-small-school-players/
     
  2. The Omen

    The Omen Well-Known Member

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    Highndsight is 20/20

    Jamarcus Russell was the #1 pick while Joe Thomas was the #3 in 07', want to ask the Raiders who'd they'd rather have today? Besides, Cosell said it himself, Long is a 4 time pro-bowler. This article screams "stupid"

    The Dolphins followed a 1-15 season by winning the Division the next after the Long pick...

    Why aren't there articles out there for the Rams not taking Matt Ryan over Chris Long, that seems like to be the bigger miss then the Dolphins taking Jake.

    **** these talking heads!
     
  3. Roman529

    Roman529 Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew

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    This story is like the chewing gum that gets stuck on your shoe in the parking lot, and it just won't go away. Matty "Ice" Ryan has won as many playoff games as I have....NONE. This guy wilts in big games. I would rather have a guy who has gone to four straight pro bowls in four seasons and is on his way to a Hall of Fame career....Jake Long.
     
  4. Miamifinz

    Miamifinz Philbin is an idiot Donator

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    Jake Long was a great pick, and it's really difficult to say whether or not Matt Ryan would be doing as well here as he is (during the regular season) in ATL. If Ryan was a Dolphin, and he could have the same statistical success as a Falcon, then he should have been the pick. But could Sparano and company really develop a franchise QB?
     
  5. kloud_9

    kloud_9 Well-Known Member

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    Talk to me when he wins somethin after the regular season...
     
  6. rob19

    rob19 Soul Rebel Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Here we go...
     
  7. Tunaphish429

    Tunaphish429 1st Ballot Hall of Famer Donator

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    Haha...gotta love this debate..I am not in any way upset that Miami didnt draft Matt Ryan...When Miami took Jake Long and Penny fell into our laps our Front office looked like gods...after Penny got hurt it was all on Chad Henne to make something of the Dolphins..we all know how that ended...Miami knew that Ryan was not worth the #1 pick and he is still not... Ryan was looking to cash in as the #1 pick...He didnt want to be a Dolphin, as others have pointed out Ryan has not won a playoff game and has looked pretty awful when playing in them.
     
  8. bryan

    bryan Scout Team

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    All this says to me is something most of already know or should. Passing the ball and defending the pass via pass rushers and cornerbacks is what matters in today's NFL.

    The best quarterbacks are typically the division winners and eventual super bowl champs. These guys are throwing for 400 yards a game at unheard of completion percentages. Richardson, Reiff or Decastro are not the answer in the upcoming draft.
     
  9. HarryBagpipe

    HarryBagpipe Archibald Meatpants Super Donator Donator

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    I used to be okay with the jake long pick over Ryan but as time has moved on I realize more and more what a mistake it was
     
  10. foozool13

    foozool13 #12 #13 #23 #29 #54 #99 Donator

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  11. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    On the basis of actual accomplishments in season AND post season, possession of the obvious winner's mindset and clutch gene, etc., it's clear that a do-over based on the 20/20 hindsight, would have us take Joe Flacco. If we could have picked up another pick by trading down far enough to still be in front of the Ravens, all the better, but even if not, he's been the best 2008 pick and as such an argument can be made from the rear view mirror, worthy of the #1 pick.
     
  12. NY8123

    NY8123 Sophisticated Redneck Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    I would have taken Chris Long.
     
  13. Twitches Brew

    Twitches Brew A True Fan

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    Matt Ryan is the most overrated QB in the the NFL. The best QB to come out of that draft was Flacco. I'd still take Jake (/Jerod Mayo/Aqib Talib/Clady).

    Matt Ryan is not in the (hindsight) best 20 players of that draft. He might not even crack 30. I don't understand why people still think Matt Ryan can play QB. Watch some Falcons games.
     
  14. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko Alonso - El Bravo 47 the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

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    Parcells and co wanted to play it safe. Big Jake is a high quality LT and at the time seemed the safest bet. Parcells had had the luck to find Tony Romo from nowhere and probably expected to be able to replicate that sort success.
    Finding a long term QB has been a total failure for over 12 years. Hindsight now tells us that Matty Ice was probably the better pick. However, we still got a top class player, who is set for many good years if we can afford to keep him.
     
  15. utahphinsfan

    utahphinsfan Puck Fitzburgh

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    This hindsight bias was mind-numbingly tedious years ago.

    So, unless you can hitch a ride w/ Mr Peabody, Stop Whining!
     
  16. 4THand10

    4THand10 A True Fan

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    For the 864,213 posts about this topic can we just let this topic die? :deadhorse:
     
  17. taldolfin

    taldolfin Starter

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    4 years ago so can't we just move on..........we miss out on Brady,Montana and trading up for Manning......It's done and over. I think we missed out on Aaron Rodgers too last time I looked.
     
  18. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus 1/7/14 Finheaven VIP

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    In other news, it appears that the Allies have defeated the Axis in World War 2, that Lindsay Lohan is more riddled with disease than a rotting horse, and that Breaking Bad is a pretty awesome show.
     
  19. tay0365

    tay0365 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    :bobdole: Wow!!! This debate is never going to end, is it? Can't wait for Miami to win a SB before the Falcons already, so this debate can finally be over. :lol:
     
  20. hab321

    hab321 Well-Known Member

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    At some point this needs to be let go.....don't forget we also didn't draft Terry Bradshaw, Ken Stabler, Joe Montana, Troy Aikman, Steve Young and the miriad of other Super Bowl winning QBs.
     
  21. petefins

    petefins Go DOLPHINS

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    who freakin' cares. What's done is done. get over your damn ex already.
     
  22. CallMeDaddy

    CallMeDaddy CMD Finheaven VIP

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    It's more than beating a dead horse , their beating off that dead horse now, it's quite disgusting actually.
     
  23. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    Neither of the two
    Calvin Johnson
     
  24. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    I actually would have liked Flaaco at the time but what I see today - I say no freakin way.............. His game is disguised by a strong run game and a devastating D - he wilts in big the big games like Ryan

    Long has a lot of game left
     
  25. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    If you dont think Ryan is one of the best 20 players in that draft you should drug test yourself.

    ---------- Post added at 07:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 PM ----------

    we should have traded up for Mark Snchez with the theories about how Ryan has donw in playoffs. Sanchez is 4-2 in the playoffs I mean those are the only games that count, who cares if you win regular season games. Dan Marino sucked too since he could not win a superbowl lol
     
  26. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    debates will never end.....that's what I love about Metal and hard rock......no doubt on who the best has always been.

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  27. fishbanger

    fishbanger Phin fan since 1970!

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    In a sense it matters as we still need a QB and we still have the same GM. If he picks Reiff it will be deja vu all over again.
     
  28. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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  29. DphinBillkiller

    DphinBillkiller Touchdown

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    Hindsight is always 20/20. Long was the safe pick and has been a good consistent player.
     
  30. nosleep

    nosleep Resident GIF Maker

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  31. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero Donator

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    So tired of hearing about Matt Ryan. Its like Duke told Apollo, "Let it go... Let it go"...
     
  32. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    I still laugh at these threads, when it was much clearer that the biggest whiff was on Drew Brees late in round 1 of the 2001 draft . . . followed by missing on Rodgers in 2005.

    Sure in hindsight we know that passing up on a potential franchise QB is a big no no when you don't have one . . . but we got a hell of a LT in Jake Long and Matty Ice melting in big games down here would probably have fans pretty loco right now.
     
  33. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus 1/7/14 Finheaven VIP

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    Without a quarterback at least as good as Matt Ryan you don't play any big games. That's kind of the point.
     
  34. fishbanger

    fishbanger Phin fan since 1970!

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    Thats sad if MAtt ryan does not play in a big games. Maybe our 6-10 record will result in bigger games that the Falcons. Are we playing Atlanta next year?
     
  35. realdolphin

    realdolphin Starter

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    zzzz zzzzzz zzzzzzzz zzz zzzzzzzzz zzzz zzzzzzz
     
  36. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Only on finheaven is Matt Ryan not a very good qb lol
     
  37. WSE

    WSE Starter

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    I love Long. Really good player

    great pick though? No. Makes way to much money and there were playmakers available. You need the qb and take the lineman first. Sounds like a Parcells 80's move, which it was, but you dont do that in today's NFL. It was a huge mistake.
     
  38. J Tes

    J Tes next generation

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    In hindsight, yeah, Miami probably should have taken Ryan but its not as if Ryan was some highly touted lock. He had a lot of skeptics and threw a lot of picks his final year. Some of you make it sound as if this is the Colts taking Kalil over Luck. Its not. Ryan turned out to be a very good starter but it was far from a lock. Hindsight is always 20/20
     
  39. DisturbedShifty

    DisturbedShifty Wort-wort-wort!!! Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    Can we PLEASE start locking threads like this? I mean it is one thing to analyze last years draft. But the draft form four years ago? Come on, get over it already. Move on. Yesh.
     
  40. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

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    Bill Parcells wasn't going to pick Matt Ryan, not first. It would have violated numerous principals that Parcells properly believes in. Ryan was hardly a dynamic prospect, pegged for stardom for years. He split time as a sophomore. Fringe first round grade entering his senior year. Moderate arm. Limited physical upside. Impressive intangibles.

    That's fine. It's not 1/10, as in overwhelming odds-on favorite, the range you need atop the draft, particularly at 2008 purse level. Parcells is a horse guy. He lives in Saratoga. I've seen him at the track several times during August. When horse racing was more in vogue the type of perspective that Parcells applies was commonly ingrained, and transported. You don't take anything at face value in racing. It's hardly matter of popping in the tape and saying wow look at that nice horsey. Was it down in class? Off a layoff? Try to outrun the pedigree and you'll collapse in the final furlong almost without exception. One or two recent races isn't sufficient to vault to odds-on favoritism in a legit field, unless the talent level is extra, extra special, a so-called freak.

    That type of handicapping was standard when I first started following the draft. Now that racing has all but disappeared it's as if the lessons were lost, or never learned. Consequently we're giddy to vault modest talent far higher than they deserve, particularly at quarterback. Parcells may second guess the pick now but anyone who followed his career realized he'd never stray from his long held beliefs. This is the same guy who has a quarterback formula that Ryan flunked, not enough years started or games won. As soon as you want to dismiss it, it isolates Andy Dalton last year. Similarly, I remember when terrific but undersized linebackers were presented for evaluation when Parcells was in his heyday at the Giants. Parcells would check the height/weight and refuse to look at the tape, scoffing at the scout. Keep in mind this was simultaneous to the Dolphins and the bulk of the AFC loading up on receivers and defensive backs and an overall finesse lightweight approach. Pathetic. It's fashionable for the younger crowd to rip Parcells, or Al Davis, since they don't remember those trophy presentations and all the astute decisions that went into them. Granted, we got Parcells at 65, within a changing league he may not have fully grasped. I can't exactly envision Pat White drafted by those '80s Giants.

    IMO, Ryan is a franchise quarterback only if you water down that term like late afternoon Miami August showers. What would it take for him to threaten a title, other than group NFC injuries at the quarterback position, or for Atlanta to somehow forge a line of scrimmage, smarts and intensity edge comparable to the '72 Dolphins?

    Key the Green Bay games the past two years. That's the devastating tipoff. The Falcons were 13-3 yet embarrassed at home by the Packers. Rodgers entered with 8.2 yards per attempt to 6.5 for Ryan. Yet somehow Atlanta was favored. Last season Atlanta hosted Green Bay early season on Sunday night, a high profile quick revenge spot that on the surface was immensely favorable. Sure enough, Atlanta jumped to a quick 14-0 lead. I was already extremely worried about Green Bay's potential for undefeated, in a league that coddles truly great passers. But when Atlanta carried a 14-6 edge into halftime and the adjusted betting line equated to Green Bay getting points, you had to laugh more than evaluate. Rodgers plus points against Ryan? Can I have that every day?

    Atlanta never scored another point. It's one thing to isolate Ryan for failing to dent the scoreboard at the Giants in an elimination game. He went scoreless in crunch time and put up only 156 yards passing against a Packer secondary that was shredded all season, especially on the road where they otherwise allowed at least 217 in every game.

    Ryan with the rookie Jones bumped to 7.4 YPA overall in 2011 with the new interpretation of defense. Decent jump but Eli soared all the way to 8.4. Rodgers was 9.2.

    I think I'd want to cry if my team were stuck with him for another half decade or more. Others will disagree. I'd prefer to gamble on getting it right somewhere along the line, and not forced to pay a borderline second tier guy the money that Ryan will demand. One arm or shoulder injury of any note and he's already forfeited more margin for error than he owns.

    Anyway, I'm more and more convinced we'll have our own reach soon enough on a quarterback who doesn't fit the dosage index, and this topic will be largely shelved. Jeff Ireland is a tough guy in his mind only. He knows the ridicule and the vultures are real this time, closer to his head. He can't fend off the inevitable for much longer minus a distracting tool. In this league at current video game erosion, that means new quarterback only. Ozzie Guillen didn't want to apologize for the Castro remarks. He'd have preferred to rant like Nathan R. Jessup. But Ozzie understood he was stuck. Even if he's not thrilled with quarterbacks 3 and lower, Ireland is similarly stuck, and with no prospect of a comparable general manager position elsewhere, perhaps for the bulk of his career, given the personality issues and how well known they've become.
     

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