My take on the Vontae Davis trade

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by SCLSU Mud Dogs, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs foos-ball is the devil! Donator

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    Some of you like the move. Others want to picket outside of the team's facilities to show their angst.

    As Hard Knocks highlighted, Vontae has continued to struggle with the day-in and day-out, typical duties of an NFL player. He has shown no morsel of growing maturity since he has been drafted, and despite his athletic gifts, he has done nothing for himself to cement himself into any kind of starting role - whether that be in Miami or anywhere else. Call it whatever you want - laziness, failing to live up to potential, having his head up his ***... Vontae was not benefiting himself or other players around him.

    The situation was actually worse than I thought with Vontae. Here's a guy that gave the perception that he wanted things handed to him without working hard or putting in 100% effort. Last season, when Smith and Davis pledged to be the best cornerback duo in the NFL...that promise failed not because of any lack of talent, but because of a lack of work ethic. It's been a long time since we had a coach that preached accountability and actually followed through with action when a player didn't buy in or live up to the expectations of the team and organization. Actually, I can't remember at any point in my lifetime where a head coach demanded more from players instead of settling for less.

    I have more and more respect for Philbin every day. He continually tries to better this organization and even though in his short time here it seems like we have gotten worse, we are embarking on a change of culture in Miami Dolphins football. We have a receiver in Brandon Marshall who throws teammates under the bus, causes a raucous in the lockerroom and has many off-field issues. We trade him. We have another receiver in Chad Johnson who has three strikes before his fate is sealed. He messes up not one, not two, but three times in a short period of time. We release him. We have a corner in Vontae Davis who is letting his teammates down, failing to show them that he cares enough to get his act straight. We trade him.

    I will say that the Marshall trade wasn't as fair to us as it was for Chicago, but we still got some value for a guy that the organization obviously wanted nowhere near this team.

    Tell me honestly that if you were another team, and your team gave up a second-round pick for Vontae, that you would be happy. I know I wouldn't. Vontae turned into a project player for us. He is a good player. That has shown up on the field. But how in the hell are you going to be an NFL player, and the supposed best player at your position on the team, and show up to camp out of shape while looking completely lost on the field? I'm honestly surprised we got such good value from Vontae. If the Colts can help him get his head out of his ***, they got a good player. If not, and the inconsistencies continue to show throughout his career as a Colts player, then we got the better end of the trade.

    Even if he goes on to have a good career, the value we got for him (likely a pick in the 30's) was good for a player in his situation.

    The only qualm I have with this trade doesn't actually involve the trade itself. I wish Vontae would have figured it out while he was here. He was one of my favorite up and coming players and I thought this was going to be the year he finally put it together. His lack of maturity, motivation and work ethic sealed his fate here. That isn't the kind of player you want around other players. We need players that are going to set good examples for their teammates, not dog it and half-*** it down the field.
     
  2. dolfanattic5

    dolfanattic5 you got chambered

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    Well said. Agree with basically everything.
     
  3. MiZFiT

    MiZFiT FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Someone with a brain stem!
     
  4. Valandui

    Valandui Lumberjack Batman Donator

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    49ers are pretty happy they didn't give up on his brother after three years.
     
  5. ojmcduffy

    ojmcduffy Seasoned Veteran

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    well i don't think we are hiring singletary as a coach to jerk his head out of his butt for him.
     
  6. Fin Thirteen

    Fin Thirteen FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    None of what you said is wrong, in my opinion anyway.

    But you can't ignore the fact that we keep bringing in players who don't live up to expectation. We then have to trade them out for a net loss. I have a hard time clapping Ireland on the back for making the loss smaller than it might have been.

    Ireland struggles at the "marquee" end of the player market, whether than is the draft or FA. I hope somebody in the coaching team can help him with that, if Ross keeps him on board.

    I also hope that Sherman can step in and fill a little of the charisma void that Philbin has (much as I like him). A rallying point is going to be needed during a time when "quality" players are cut with no clear replacement for them and the season opener only a couple of weeks away. We need Philbin, Coyle and Sherman to really show their worth in the next fortnight and hopefully Ireland can redeem himself with a good FA trade for a WR.
     
  7. LouPhinFan

    LouPhinFan It's ok to say "I don't know". Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Everyone is focusing on the backside of this deal. Who brought Marshall and Davis to this team? As the poster above me said, Ireland struggles with finding usable elite level talent. Giving him another 2nd round pick is like loading a gun with blanks.

    I'm willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt but I think I'm done with Jeff Ireland. He can kick rocks now.
     
  8. BringBackDan13

    BringBackDan13 Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree with everything you said. Would i've loved to see Vontae become the player we expected every year? Sure. But there's only so many opportunities you can give a guy. He's been out of shape the past two seasons. Worse is that he was in terrible shape last season, got injured as a result and learnt nothing from it going into this year. There's no doubting he has pro-bowl type abilities but he's just never fulfilled them. He's had quality games and terrible ones. Just really lacked the consistency you need from a first round pick. We've had three years out of him and maybe his value depreciates by only 10 picks from where we drafted him. That's not bad. Plus a sixth rounder as well. I applaud Ireland for getting this kind of value for a player that's promised so much and realistically delivered so little. A second round pick for a player that can't beat out Sean Smith and Richard Marshall...that says it all. If he works out good for the Colts. But it's not worth passing up great value that we'd never get elsewhere. It's a stong possibility we head into next season with 3 picks in the top 40 and 5 in the first 3 rounds. Don't get me wrong...i'd much rather have Vontae than draft picks...but a Vontae that shows up in shape, plays to his ability and works for his team rather than himslf. We just haven't had that so i think we did the right thing. We're building a new culture and need reliable guys that are consistent and we can count on week in week out. But with Vontae we don't have that.
     
  9. DolfanJay

    DolfanJay Active Member

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    This was a terrible trade. Vontae is the best corner we've had since Madison. He is a star cornerback in this league. We had a great secondary now we have to pray no one gets hurt or we are lining up sucky Nolan Carrol.

    Yeah he was kind of lazy but he wasn't embarrassing the team. On game day he is easily our best DB. I blame this stupid hard knocks show they caught him saying that he was tired and was gonna act like he was good. Then nfl network made a huge deal out of it for two days. Now those same guys on NFL Network are calling him the shutdown corner the Colts need.

    I agree you need high character guys but you also need talent. A good coach can handle different types of personalities on his team.

    The team is now worse and I'm a little upset about it.
     
  10. Dmarino110

    Dmarino110 Starter

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    he has shown what most of the fins picks have shown over the years...small glimpses that they have potential...THATS IT!!!

    he has never lived up to being picked in the 1st round and to get a 2nd out of him is IMO a good job by the front office...if this was what he needed to light a fire under his @$$ and he gets better because of it well then good luck to him and the colts
     
  11. Dmarino110

    Dmarino110 Starter

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    okay? tell us about all the picks hes had since he's come into the league...tell us how hes won us games since hes been drafted because madison and surtain WON US GAMES...vonte was a fantastic looking specimine of a cornerback but HE NEVER MADE ANY PLAYS...

    Id rather have traded smith because smith doesnt like contact IMO but vonte has done nothing for this team...
     
  12. eric1317

    eric1317 Rookie

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    This hurts our secondary depth but overall I don't have a problem with getting rid of Davis. I respect their decision that the player was not the kind of person they wanted on their team. What concerns me about this trade is all the talk of using picks to trade for a WR. It smells of desperation, and I'm sure we won't get good value when trading for a WR because of that. My worst fear is that we will give up a potential top 5 pick for someone like Wallace. I have got to believe that our front office and coaching staff knew that it could not address all our needs in one offseason. Now it seems that when confronted with how bad the team appears to be that it will abandon it's plan and morgage the future to be a little better today. I'd like to see one or two more draft with our full complement of picks before we get rid of Ireland. Overall I like the players we picked in this years draft and am not ready to giveup on them. Patience is a virtue
     
  13. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    and buyers remorse will soon set in like obama in 2009.
     
  14. joeylats

    joeylats Well-Known Member

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    davis is over rated underachieving,low character,lazy excuse for a cb.He doesnt fit our new system and im glad we got what we did for him.I think Jimmy Wilson moves back to cb and Russel makes team,Coyle turned Bengals secondary into a asset with less talent than we have.Give it time and be patient!
     
  15. andyahs

    andyahs Bahamian Redneck Donator

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    What does that have to do with Vontae? Because they are brothers does not mean Vontae will get anything turned around.
     
  16. Heinegrabber

    Heinegrabber Since 84 Finheaven VIP

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    Remember this post when we are 4 and 12. :crazy:
     
  17. Rodney1505

    Rodney1505 Active Member

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    bring this back out when the pro bowl selection comes out this year and Vontae is on it i think he is a pro bowler this year obviously the colts do too some new db coach didnt like his technique and prob had some discussions with Philbin and Ireland and next thing you know one of the best man coverage cb in the league is gone
     
  18. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    :bobdole:
     
  19. Viggen

    Viggen Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree that it is good to get rid of poor performers or bad seeds. For Philbin to win me over in any way, the team needs to get better!

    Wait and see, again...
     
  20. MiZFiT

    MiZFiT FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Would it be any different if vontae was still here? He's no Revis.
     
  21. 72 silky

    72 silky Well-Known Member

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    A star? How may probowls has he made. He's not even in the top 5 of db is he good yes a star no. How many games has he won for us
     
  22. pblove33

    pblove33 Rookie

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    I have no problem with the trade. I just don't want Ireland here next year wasting all of 2nd and 3rd rounders on bums. Hire a new GM.
     
  23. Heinegrabber

    Heinegrabber Since 84 Finheaven VIP

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    I forgot it was Davis that offenses go after not Smith or Bell. Now those are two shutdown defenders!!!!!!!!!
     
  24. HarryBagpipe

    HarryBagpipe Archibald Meatpants Super Donator Donator

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    As inconsistent as Davis has been, he's had a lot more succesful picks than Ireland. With Ireland's track record, to me we gave up Davis for free. What has Ireland done to give me faith he can even turn that pick into a productive player? So unless someone else is our gm, that 2 nd rounder is pretty much useless
     
  25. mike_vee

    mike_vee Seasoned Veteran

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    with al due respect, Ireland really only had 2 drafts to call his own, we all know that the first 2 or 3 were run by Parcels, so lets take a look at what Ireland has done so far;

    2010- 1st - odrick - starter
    2nd - misi - starter
    3rd - jerry - questionable - but talented
    5th - carroll- starter
    5th - jones - stater

    2011 - 1st - pouncy - starter
    2nd - thomas - 2nd sting rb
    4th - gates - jury still out
    6th - clay - big time potential

    2012 - 1st - Tannehill - starting qb
    2nd - martin - starter
    3rd - vernon - big time potential
    3rd - egnew - needs to screw head on right but potential is there
    4th - miller - major contributer

    so as i look at it Ireland has done a hell of good job and i think he'll continue to do a good job i think in time we'll be up there with the big boys of the NFL.
     
  26. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    Excellent post!
     
  27. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase

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    Why does everybody expect Vontae to be like Vernon?

    He wont be. Vonate has been the same since College. Nothing special.
     
  28. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    I agree, I kept hoping the talent would translate to a mature Pro Bowler...but it never happened, and it was NEVER going to happen with Vontae's attitude and work ethic.

    Just look at the disturbing actions of this immature kid this training camp?

    I'm am all for getting players on this team with a champions heart and work ethic.
     
  29. gdiaz0358

    gdiaz0358 Rookie

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    I have to agree 100%. Davis had the talent to become one of the best, but not the mindset and dedication. The fact that he has shown up countless times to practice drunk/hungover alone tells you his immaturity will never change. He never improved from his rookie season and a lot of that can be to blame on our previous coaches, but the fact that even this season he shows up out of shape and not ready to step it up means a lot. Smith is pushing himself to be better but lacks the talent that Davis had naturally. All Philbin/Ireland are doing is riding themselve of the head aches and players taken earlier to build a solid team. At first I was pissed at this trade, but the simple fact that Davis got beat out by Marshall alone tells a lot. Davis is the classic case of too much talent, and no desire to be great. Id take 53 Devone Bess over 1 V.Davis, who can be better than Revis but just refuses to work hard. On top of the fact that he would have eventually held out and asked for a huge contract and then we would not have gotten anything in return for him, so this is a good trade and I hope Ireland does not mess up the draft pick.
     
  30. EmperorPhin

    EmperorPhin Scout Team

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    I agree and if Jerry starts at RG then thats 8 out of 22 starters are from the past 3 drafts. Thats pretty impressive
     
  31. HarryBagpipe

    HarryBagpipe Archibald Meatpants Super Donator Donator

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    I guess u and me have a different opinion on "hell of a good job". That list looks like a bunch of mediocre to bad players to me and just because u put starter next to their name doesnt make them good. In those three years of drafting his best pick so far was a center who was drafted in the teens. If you think those players constitute a "hell of a job" my guess is that no matter who they drafted you would somehow justify it in order to defend Ireland.
     
  32. Twitches Brew

    Twitches Brew A True Fan

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    My take on OP starting own thread for a post that easily could have been added to an existing topic: stop.

    I don't like trading a 24 year-old starting #1 corner, gifted athlete, best cb on the team for 3 years.
     
  33. dolfan91

    dolfan91 Starter Donator

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    No doubting Vontae's talent and skill level, but after 3 seasons and the beginning of his 4th, he still hadn't shown the maturity level and professionalism needed to harness his enormous potential into consistency. It's 1 thing to show flashes, but another to do it every day. Vontae will always be an enigma due to his lazy attitude towards the sport. He just doesn't seem to get it. He is the kind of player, who seems to have several instances per season that cause him to get into a coaches dog house. As a fan you tend to want to over look his short coming off the field in hopes that he plays masterfully on the field. To me Vontae Davis wasn't worth the risk anymore. IF he plays masterfully in Indy, than so be it and congratulations to Chuck Pagano to be able to get Vontae straightened out. I feel as an organization you sometimes need to take a stand whether it be about a player or coach or both. It's apparent now, that Ross wants to rid himself of potential headaches within the organization. There was no way that Miami would have been able to secure a player of equal talent in return or a higher draft pick. I'm not a Colts fan and think they over paid for a player, who STILL HASN'T lived up to his potential. Miami IMHO got lucky in receiving that 2nd round pick. Let Davis be Davis!!! And Let Coyle do is thing with Miami's secondary. I'm not a fan of losing Vontae, hell I even bought his jersey, but I'm no dummy, he wasn't cutting here in Miami. Too many question marks remain with Vontae.
     
  34. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    I feel very encouraged by Philibin as well. He's demanding that his players do it the right way and if they don't they are gone. It means in the future we are going to be putting a high emphasis on character and work ethic in bringing players to Miami. In the short-run, though, the Dolphins look like a 2-5 win team and maybe that isn't all bad. A top 5 pick in next years' draft and the ammunition to trade up for an elite prospect if Ireland takes that route. I also agree with you on Davis. I thought he had the potential to be an elite player and he did flash that at times. Maybe this is what he needs to realize his full potential.
     
  35. joeylats

    joeylats Well-Known Member

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    we took Davis with 25th pick we are probably getting pick 35-38 next year plus a sixth in return for a 4th yr guy who doesnt fit our system or play to his potential and is immature! Great trade send Dansby out next who has mysterious leg injury since his meeting with Philbin get on board or get out, i think org. is finally headed in right direction!
     
  36. Dolphin Dave

    Dolphin Dave Scout Team

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    This. We got to test drive Vonte for 3 years and got a pick in return that will most likely be only about 10 spots lower + a 6th. That isn't bad. Especially when you consider that he has shown up to work drunk and out of shape. If we have to endure another losing season, I would rather clean out all the bad apples before they spoil all the new apples.
     
  37. PogiRo

    PogiRo Starter

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    What I don't get is why fans continue to hold Vontae to the 1st round pick standard... He was picked. He was a part of the team. He was a good player. Who cares if he was picked in the 1st round or 7th? He filled a need. And now we traded him for a 2nd round pick. I will say, yes, that's good value. But now we have a pick and now we have to HOPE that the pick will prove to be more valuable than keeping Vontae. That's what it comes down to. I don't like our chances. Not with Ireland making the calls. You can pretty much count the impact players that Ireland selected in the draft on one hand. Vontae was one of them. I don't know how you guys can be so optimistic that the player we select will be as valuable as Vontae. Because that's the only factor that truly says whether this trade is good or bad. And judging from Ireland's draft history, I have doubts that the pick will work out that way.
     
  38. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs foos-ball is the devil! Donator

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    How much better was this team as a whole with Vontae on the roster as opposed to without him? It's really not much of a difference.
     
  39. Valandui

    Valandui Lumberjack Batman Donator

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    Because Vernon acted the same way before Singletary got him to pull his head out of his ***. Now he's the best TE in the league.
     
  40. WadeCounty1231

    WadeCounty1231 Well-Known Member

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    my take is a head coach needs to learn to work with players he doesnt mesh with attitude wise instead of shipping them out

    trading our most talented players on offense and defense for in Marshall's case mediocre picks and in this case 1 decent pick does not work for me. Have your mantra Philbin, but f'n learn to work with talent instead of just shipping it out.
     

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