Nick Saban: Daunte Still a Prime Time Player (Post-Game Presser)

[fishypete]

EXACTLY!

It is the Joey/Daunte double standard at work once again.

Joey gets a free pass, week after week for things that Daunte gets torn to shreds for, I don't understand it.

You've made great points about the perception people have. People percieved us as a Super Bowl contender when C-Pep was playing and were stringing him up when he was playing below his established level of play and the team was playing poorly. Now the SAME people are seeing how flawed this football team and blaming everyone BUT the quarterback.

There are people on this board that are so obsessed with their hate towards Culpepper that they have wanted him to fail from day one...something I don't understand. I'm a Dolphins fan, something that a LOT of people here can not say.

UT...I don't hate Culpepper....but I've said right from the start that I didn't think he was as good as his stat's appear. With or without his knee....his holding onto the football way too long has always been his problem....his sack stat's in his career prove that....in less than 7 full years....he has 249 sacks....I believe Marino only had 235 in 16 years.
Culpepper's saving grace was his movement....now he doesn't have that to back him up....so he is what he is...a QB that holds onto the football to long...and one that takes too long to make a decision....not a good combination.

 

[adamprez2003]

EXACTLY!

It is the Joey/Daunte double standard at work once again.

Joey gets a free pass, week after week for things that Daunte gets torn to shreds for, I don't understand it.

I dont think that's true. I think they get ripped for completely different flaws in their game.

With Daunte its his slow decision making process and his lack of mobility.
With Harrigton its his long range accuracy and his interceptions.

The arguments are valid for both. I think when choosing between these two it has more to do with what flaws you're willing to live with from the QB position.

 

[LoneWulF]

i believe ricky williams and daunte culpepper are the best offensive players the dolphins have, and dont have. when healthy daunte will benefit from ricky. ronnie is not a star player

 

[ckparrothead]

I dont think that's true. I think they get ripped for completely different flaws in their game.

With Daunte its his slow decision making process and his lack of mobility.
With Harrigton its his long range accuracy and his interceptions.

The arguments are valid for both. I think when choosing between these two it has more to do with what flaws you're willing to live with from the QB position.

And for a fan base that got use to winning games with Jay Fiedler at the helm I guess I should be able to see why they'd go with the familiar demon in Harrington over the unfamiliar chance in Culpepper.

But the fact of the matter is Harrington's given us no reason to believe his flaws will ever change and he's shown us everything he showed in Oregon and in Detroit.

Meanwhile Daunte's pattern of play has clearly been affected by his knee injury, which by all means should get better over time.

And Daunte has shown that his "slow decision making process" is good enough to have one of the best seasons a QB has ever had, even without much help from a gimpy Randy Moss who only played for 2/3rds of the season.

 

[fishypete]

And for a fan base that got use to winning games with Jay Fiedler at the helm I guess I should be able to see why they'd go with the familiar demon in Harrington over the unfamiliar chance in Culpepper.

But the fact of the matter is Harrington's given us no reason to believe his flaws will ever change and he's shown us everything he showed in Oregon and in Detroit.

Meanwhile Daunte's pattern of play has clearly been affected by his knee injury, which by all means should get better over time.

And Daunte has shown that his "slow decision making process" is good enough to have one of the best seasons a QB has ever had, even without much help from a gimpy Randy Moss who only played for 2/3rds of the season.

CK....You forget the important items like no talented players on the team...with the exception of Taylor today....the team played an average game....what more can you really expect....receivers dropping so many catches....shame it hit them for the most part on the hands....their hands must be sore. How about our coaching....you pick Ronnie with the 2nd pick in the draft....but only use him again...15 times as a runner....what a shame and a sad joke. How about the cowardly Lion we have as a headcoach....how many times did he chose to go for a fieldgoal...when they were in Green Bays side of the 50...I counted at least 4 times....and the most they needed was 7 yds....once it was just 2 yds.....2 yards and you are afraid to use Ronnie or a QB sneak....spread the defense with 4 receivers and let Harrington run a lousy 2 yds....but NO....the scared Lion....just goes for fieldgoals....then how will you ever teach the players that winning is everything....if your coach to lose. Lets not forget that the Dolphins are 1-5 during this game....did the Packers who were 1-4 play scared? Or did they play to win? Saban is suppose to be a secondary coach....hate to see if he didn't have that going for him...again....our secondary was beaten like a drum. Well now we're 1-6....and again I say...ALL's well....because we shouldn't complain....we shouldn't be mad that we're no better off now...than two year ago...and it isn't going to get any better....we still have the Bears, Colts, Pats....heck even the Lions may give us a loss....and thats the way it is....Monday 23rd 2006.

 

[adamprez2003]

And for a fan base that got use to winning games with Jay Fiedler at the helm I guess I should be able to see why they'd go with the familiar demon in Harrington over the unfamiliar chance in Culpepper.

But the fact of the matter is Harrington's given us no reason to believe his flaws will ever change and he's shown us everything he showed in Oregon and in Detroit.

Meanwhile Daunte's pattern of play has clearly been affected by his knee injury, which by all means should get better over time.

And Daunte has shown that his "slow decision making process" is good enough to have one of the best seasons a QB has ever had, even without much help from a gimpy Randy Moss who only played for 2/3rds of the season.

Statistically it was impressive but when you watched it, it wasnt as impressive. the receivers were wide open and he had a good line in front of him. He's slower now (obviously) but he's gonna remain slower. He's never going to get back the quick twitch nerves in that leg. What we have now in Daunte is Mark Brunell after his injuries robbed him of his mobility. Do you want us to become a Washington Redskins offense. What we have in Harrington is a cheap man's Jake Delhomme without the deep accuracy and Steve Smith. The ints can be coached out of joey but he's not taking us to the promised land either. Defenses will just play tighter and dare him to beat em deep.
We shouldve drafted a QB last year. That draft was flooded with prospects whereas this one has Brohm and Quinn. After that I dont think I'd take anyone. We're probably gonna miss out on Brohm and Quinn but if one of them is available we have to take one (Brohm is my preference). As for 2007, at this stage I dont care who starts. Neither one is the long term answer it seems. We have to get rid of one. My preference is Daunte because of his contract but if its Joey I'm fine with that. To me Joey is better than a backup but only to the point of being a lower echelon starter. Daunte is in the same class unless he can prove he's not Kurt Warner back there

 

[fishypete]

Hence Saban's explanation that after the week they spent of heavy rehab on his knee, his knee got really sore and his patellar tendon got inflamed and really he made the decision himself that his knee was in no condition to be able to play today under any circumstances, even emergency ones.

Nice try though. Saban just clearly pointed to Daunte as one of our prime time players, implying strongly that we miss him as a difference maker, and this comes in addition to numerous statements to the effect of a healthy Daunte is our long term starting quarterback.

But go on taking every opportunity to defend Joey and attack Daunte. It has quite literally become your only activity on this message board (with well over 70% of your posts discussing Joey Harrington). It is truly the *only* reason you are here, on this message board. Just like Joey Harrington's presence on the Lions roster was the *only* reason you hung around Lions message boards defending Joey constantly.

Or just maybe Culpepper scamed the coaches and doctors....and he'll never be the same player he was in 2004....well he only has to go back one year....he's sure the same player he was in 2005. If I was looking towards the future....I'd say nice things about Culpepper also....just like Saban said nice things about Ricky....and were did that get us?

 

[cltchperf]

What I think is that fresh off the knee surgery, a mediocre stint surrounded by a pathetic team is hardly anything to start concluding things.

You judge Daunte by what happened from 1999 to 2005, a heck of a lot more than you judge Daunte on those four games in 2006. That's what I am saying right now.

We will not be drafting a QB high, unless Daunte comes back in this year and does a heck of a lot more damage to his name. I'm not discounting that possibility...but I do not find it likely either.

Saban wants us to get players that help this team become overachievers. If we pick REALLY high, I expect him to be really high on Calvin Johnson.

Our receivers group is good, they get open and they are capable of making plays, but they are not consistent and that is really led by Chambers who is most inconsistent of them all.

If Derek Hagan has shown anything this year, in his rookie year, it is that he IS what we thought he might be coming out of the draft. He's big, and he's fast, he's a hard worker and god help him that boy can get open. BUT, he drops the ball. Not every ball, but he does drop some of them. I think teams allowed that to drop him into a 3rd round pick because, in the end, he'll never reach above the level of a guy like Eddie Kennison so long as he drops balls. Eddie Kennison, btw, is no Marvin Harrison or Torry Holt.

Miami got a great deal though, Hagan in the 3rd. That's a good deal because he's going to be a solid player that gets open a lot for a long time, and he works hard too.

And of course if you had a bunch of Wes Welkers you'd be ok.

But Marty Booker is not long for Miami...injuries, age, salary just pretty much ensure that much.

And truthfully, Chris Chambers is still too inconsistent. You need prime time difference makers...and if you're depending on Chambers to be a prime time difference maker every game you're going to be disappointed 60% of the time.

That's why you diffuse the responsibility as much as possible and add the best playmaker possible to the team and if we draft #1 or #2, to me that is Calvin Johnson. Period.

And if not, then a Joe Thomas or Sam Baker for the OL.

And if not, then an Adam Carriker, Marcus Thomas, Justin Harrell, etc for the defense.

Yeah, I saw an article about Calvin Johnson in my SI magazine. Judging from the reading he seems to be a phenominal WR. The problem is that even though I would love Miami to get him if they have a top pick, I would also be nervous, because he will most likely be a top 5 pick. There are a lot of good first round WRs, but it seems like the ones that go in the top five are alright or they are busts. The best and top wideouts in the NFL have come in the second and third rds. Steve Smith was drafted in the third round, T.O was drafted in the third round, I believe, Chad Johnson was drafted in the second round, and Anquan Boldin was drafted in the second round. We all know about David Terrell, and Keyshawn has been alright but not of the caliber of a 1st overall pick. Fitzgerald was a top 5 pick though, but I thought there were quite a bit Wrs that were either alright or busts that were drafted in the top, maybe I'm wrong, though. I just don't know if WR would be the best thing if Miami had a top WR with what I just stated and they could get a top defensinve player instead. But he would probably be the best player availavle also, and you wouldn't want to miss that either. I read where Calvin Johnson is one WR that has the vertical that can match Chambers, but he has good hands, and is big, and fast. This might not exactly be true, but in Johnson's measurable, his vertical leap measured 47''.

 

[Finole]

You forget the important items like no talented players on the team

Booker had a great game.
Ronnie had a great game.
Crowder had a great game.
Hagan had a good game.

....what more can you really expect....receivers dropping so many catches....shame it hit them for the most part on the hands....their hands must be sore.

Yeah, right. Three feet above their head. Below their knees. Behind them. Too far in front of them. Did you see any of those throws?

Harrington went 33 for 62. Are you telling me the WRs dropped 29 passes today?!

Harrington's completion percentage was 53%. He threw for 414 yards but his QB rating was only 64.8

Harrington did a lot of things right. But he did more things wrong.

How about our coaching....you pick Ronnie with the 2nd pick in the draft....but only use him again...15 times as a runner....what a shame and a sad joke.

2nd and 10, R. Brown rushed to the right for no gain
1st and 10, R. Brown rushed up the middle for 2 yard loss

You mean run the ball like that, right?

I suppose you would like the coaches to run the ball on 3rd and 10, 3rd and 8, 2nd and 20, 3rd and 14, 3rd and 10, 3rd and 9, 3rd and 21, 2nd and 19. Any of these down and distances sound familiar? They should. That's what the Fins were faced with against GB.

Ronnie had 15 carries for 59 yards.
And 5 receptions for 63 yards.
That's 122 total yards.

Would you prefer 20 carries for 79 yards?

How about the cowardly Lion we have as a headcoach....how many times did he chose to go for a fieldgoal...when they were in Green Bays side of the 50...I counted at least 4 times....and the most they needed was 7 yds....once it was just 2 yds.....2 yards and you are afraid to use Ronnie or a QB sneak....spread the defense with 4 receivers and let Harrington run a lousy 2 yds....but NO....the scared Lion....just goes for fieldgoals....

Right, because our offensive line is so dominant. We went for it on 4th down a few times last week. Remember how well we did?

Saban is suppose to be a secondary coach....hate to see if he didn't have that going for him...again....our secondary was beaten like a drum.

Yeah, the fact that we tipped Brett Favre's pass, and our safety was right there, but the TE still somehow caught a touchdown... man, Saban sucks.

And the fact that Driver was covered by two guys, but the ball doesn't hit the ground and luckily ends up in Driver's hands... what the hell is wrong with Saban?!!!

Well now we're 1-6....and again I say...ALL's well....because we shouldn't complain....we shouldn't be mad that we're no better off now...than two year ago...and it isn't going to get any better....we still have the Bears, Colts, Pats....heck even the Lions may give us a loss....and thats the way it is....Monday 23rd 2006.

We're no better off now than two years ago? Yeah, we were so much better off with Wannabe. I love having the leading rusher in the NFL and not even making the playoffs.

 

[cltchperf]

quote by Finole:
2nd and 10, R. Brown rushed to the right for no gain
1st and 10, R. Brown rushed up the middle for 2 yard loss

You mean run the ball like that, right?

I suppose you would like the coaches to run the ball on 3rd and 10, 3rd and 8, 2nd and 20, 3rd and 14, 3rd and 10, 3rd and 9, 3rd and 21, 2nd and 19. Any of these down and distances sound familiar? They should. That's what the Fins were faced with against GB.

Ronnie had 15 carries for 59 yards.
And 5 receptions for 63 yards.
That's 122 total yards.

Would you prefer 20 carries for 79 yards?


This is why it is important to to look at the facts overall and not just what you want to look at. Yeah, Ronnie Brown had hardly any blocking and started off slow, but the football game is 60 minutes. You don't give up on the ground game, espeically when the team is only down by a few points and theres plenty of time. Ronnie Brown only gets better the more carries he gets. I'll even start out before half to prove why Miami should have given Brown the ball more. Miami has the ball with 5:32 left before half. What do have? A fifteen yard gain from Ronnie on the first play. Ok so he gets one yard next, but then how about 8 yards. Ok the next drive only had two plasy, 3 yards not good, but not bad, move a little forward, but then Joey throws an int. Well it;s the next possession for Miami in the third quarter, (the second half). So what happens, Ronnie gets a nice 5 yard gain. From the rest on is primarliy passes, except for one Sammy morries run. Hey what do know, Ronnie gets another big gain for 9 yards, 5:30 left in the third quarter. With another rare opportunity for Brown he gets 5 yards. Then on the same possession he would have had 18 yards if it wasn't for holding on Jeno James. So what do you know, Ronnie just starts to get going, and Miami passes every play even though they had plenty of time and were only down by a few points until the very end. A person who makes a good debate looks at everything thoroughly. Here's the link: you can check for yourself. From 5:32 left from the 2nd quarted an onward. His ypc average was not good in the beginning, but from there on it raised considerably. Continue that momentum and it could end up being good. You don't give up on the ground game and become one dimensional, because it makes the defenses job a lot easier. Especially when there is plenty of time left and the team is only down by a few points.

There are more times than you think where a good rb starts of, not too good with a low ypc for the first half, but then gets going, and before you know it he ends up having a good game and the ypc increases from big runs and now its a pretty good. Just as the opposite happens where a rb starts off on fire, but byt the second half or later he can't gain any yards,a nd his good performance changes to a bad one, and his good ypc drops to a bad one. Of course, you would want a rb to play well through the whole game, but this is the NFL ,a dn that is not always going to happend especially if the ol is awful blocking for the run. What I'm saying is Ronnie should have had the chance, because he was just starting to get momentum and run well, and then Miami decides to stop running the ball even though there's plenty of time, and only a small deficit. Ronnie gains 9 yards on one situation, so what is the play calling? All pass plays, when all they had to do was gaing one stinking yard, which is more important. It's kinda of helpful to get the first down, before you try scoring.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay/NFL_20061022_GB@MIA

 

[CD13]

I can guarantee one thing though. When Joey Harrington is traded or cut from the Dolphins, Mr. Ducks Fan will leave FinHeaven, never to be seen again...just as he left the Lions message boards when Joey was traded to Miami.

Maybe Mr. Ducks fan is Joey.

 

[bluehaze]

So our coach is seeing a psychiatrist for advice on coaching this team and all we can talk about is Daunte Culpepper? Anyone fixated on the QB after todays pathetic performance by our whole team clearly has some agenda because there is so much wrong with this team that it's absurd to even begin arguing QB's.

Anyways since it is the emphasis of this thread. For an unbiased point of view look to Deion Sanders and Steve Mariuci. Mooch hates Joey he benched him in Detroit causing much controversy and he himself said after tonights performance Joey is playing very well and will most likely keep the Job at QB. Deion said he can't believe he's saying this but he agrees with Mooch and Joey Harrington is playing better than Daunte Culpepper.

 

[flintsilver7]

I have no obsession with Saban. Truth is that I'm not completely in support of him or against him. There are some things that trouble me that I've seen and heard. There are also some things that I see that give me hope Saban will be just fine. It's still up in the air. I am just a smart enough guy to know that anyone calling a new coach taking over a team with a number of holes a bust after his first year is absurd.

I didn't call him a bust. I was excited (perhaps guarded optimism would be a better description) when he first came in, but his personnel moves were fairly odd. His seeming dismissal of off-field issues bugs me because it would be nice to have a team you can like as people. (We have plenty of those, but too many aren't good guys.) Nobody listened to me when I said that Linehan's "system" was meant for Culpepper and not Frerotte and also that it makes more sense to tailor an offensive system to your player's strengths rather than the other way around. Well, Frerotte wasn't the answer. Now we've traded for Culpepper, a guy who's seemingly smaller and less mobile since the injury while his decision making has not improved. Oh, and we don't have Linehan anymore. Mularkey's patented Pop Warner Offensive Strategy has never made a single person look good, so I'm not surprised the team is struggling. Had we maybe kept Linehan and let him work with Culpepper we might have seen a different result. Who knows.

As for an obsession with you....
There you go again with this obsession stuff.
Are you lonely? Do you need to feel someone is "obsessed" with you? Fact is that you are always the one leading the charge in these threads about Saban being a bust. I'm clearly against this "well thought out viewpoint" and counter this argument. If that equates to someone being a personal stalker to you.... what ever blows your skirt up.

You seem to respond to every single one of my posts about Saban and his coaching. I call that whatever I want. You don't have to like it. The fact is I am not a Saban basher nor a Wannstedt supporter. Initially, I wanted Jim Bates to stay. Bates got more out of less than Saban has done and certainly Wannstedt did.

The point being is that he didn't have an option at RB when he took this team over nor did he have an option at QB nor did he have many options on the OL, etc.

The offensive line was very good in 2005 and not a single one of those players was a Saban acquisition. With the line mostly back to the way they were last year, the line is doing fairly well again. I don't think the line needed much work this year and it was the tinkering combined with Culpepper's insistence on holding the ball that made the line look good. Brown has actually done fairly well considering his near-total lack of use. While you are right that he didn't have a viable option to begin with at RB, he did have the #2 pick in a well-stocked RB draft class. There were better options at QB - last year and this year. You may remember that Drew Brees really wanted to play here.

That's the whole point. He had to and still has to fill a number of positions on this team. Building a team's core of youth back isn't something that can happen overnight.

Youth doesn't win in professional sports. A talented and balanced team does. We've got a younger team full of "role players," which is simply a nice way of saying they don't have that much talent.

 

[HybridPHIN 23]

William of Ockham would be rolling over in his grave if he ever listened to Saban's press conferences.

Saban is an idiot. He does not know how to coach at the professional level. Any analyst with any amount of sense has said that nearly all of personnel decisions were risky and to date next to none of them have paid off. Saban's now the proud owner of a 10-13 record as a head coach.

Yes, in theory, ALL plays can be blamed on the players. Saban can say that this particular individual should have covered this part of the field when the fact remains that that particular individual simply may not have the talent. You can't fault the #8 hitter for striking out on a triple-digit fastball because that's simply not what he's supposed to do. We have guys on the defense who aren't supposed to be anything special - "role players" as they are called by people who can't understand that they aren't talented - and they aren't really getting it done. We have an offense coached by somebody who fashions himself an autistic savant and all that talent is horribly misutilized. Then we sit here and wonder why the offense can't get anything done. Why they aren't catching the ball or clicking or what have you.

We need a new coach.

right and who do you have in mind ?? Anyone else ??

 

[flintsilver7]

right and who do you have in mind ?? Anyone else ??

Try reading past the first page. I've already said I have no answers other than Jim Bates.