Official Date For Supplemental Draft, July 13 And Miami Is Intrigued For Ahmad Brooks

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by postermaster, May 28, 2006.

  1. postermaster

    postermaster Finsavior

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  2. studsatele

    studsatele Starter Super Donator Donator

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    well hows that sound to you all? would he start?
     
  3. footballer

    footballer Pro Bowler

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    not off the bat, he may still be feeling effects of the injury... he would be a good pick up, but a 3 is too high....
     
  4. jason8er

    jason8er Shark Bait

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    I would love to see this. What is he, 6-4 260 with huge abilities? He has Saban written all over him.
     
  5. BLITZKRIEG

    BLITZKRIEG ~LACUNA LEGIONS~

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    As much as I'd like to have a player like A. Brooks, I don't want Saban giving up any more picks to do it. He needs to keep his hands out of the cookie jar, and stop using up all of our picks like he's been doing lately....

    I have nothing against using "supp picks" on players who are worth adding, but at some point you have to look at the big picture{the real NFL draft}, and realize what's best for the future of the franchise. Taking risks on "Sup players" is fine when they have talent, but waiting it out until the entire crop of players is available to you on draft day, is the best way to get the most out of your pick. There's so much more available to you....

    Maybe I'm overreacting some based on this years draft, but I don't want to go into the 2007 draft with no picks again. This year was a waste of time after our first two picks were off the board, and we need a draft where we've got picks in every round, where Saban can really work his magic....

    So in my opinion, I say no to using any more picks. We need them, and using them up now only leaves us less to work with come draft day. Keep the picks...

    PHINZ RULE!!!!
     
  6. postermaster

    postermaster Finsavior

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    Thats why I love Saban, he is a bluffer, he says he would give a 3rd, so no one will target him and at the time, no one gives nothing for him and Saban gives a 5th...
     
  7. postermaster

    postermaster Finsavior

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    Yes, having a lot of picks is good, but trading a second for Culpepper is seen once in a decade with only one team per decade, giving a 5th round for a guy that could cost us a 2nd is priceless, so I say, GIVE ALL THE DAMN PICKS IF WE ARE GOING TO STILL DOING WHAT WE ARE DOING!!!
     
  8. Dmancari23

    Dmancari23 Well-Known Member

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    Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds? He is using a pick on a player.. It's not like the picks are just being sent down the shoot with no return, this is an early part of our 2007 draft.. That's how it should be looked at.
     
  9. postermaster

    postermaster Finsavior

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    Totally agreed! :wink:
     
  10. studsatele

    studsatele Starter Super Donator Donator

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    is he worth the 3rd? forget all this stop spending picks crap. if this man was in next years draft, is he worth a 3rd? if he is spend it if not dont. if hes ray lewis jr. how could anyone say dont spend pick on him?
     
  11. jason8er

    jason8er Shark Bait

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    Do you realize you could potentially get a 2007 1st rounder and give up only a 3rd-5th instead if we just do it this summer?
     
  12. postermaster

    postermaster Finsavior

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    I say maximum a 4th, nothing higher to spend on him, but if he is going I say give a damn 3rd...

    He will be a great player with a great trade bait value...
     
  13. phinfan77

    phinfan77 Just being friendly

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    people say he's a top ten talent when healthy, when are we going to pick in the top ten again?
    the second for culpepper was a miracle. I know it sucked watching all those players slide but not one of them would have been a 3 time pro bowler already.
    blitz, i understand what your saying about draft pick value only being fully realized at the draft itself, but in some cases the risk/reward would be better in the supplemental or through trade. If manny wright had stayed in college he probaly would have been a 1-3 round pick next year, instead we got him for a 5th and have two years to condition and train him. brooks may be a top ten pick, spending a second or third round pick for a top ten player would be the steal of the draft wouldn't it?
     
  14. BrazForPhins

    BrazForPhins Perennial All-Pro

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    what's the problem? we're getting a player the same way...actually cheaper than he should be
    I know draft day brings lots of valuable options, but If you're getting value other way, why not use it? For the sake of having all the picks come draft day?
     
  15. BLITZKRIEG

    BLITZKRIEG ~LACUNA LEGIONS~

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    No. The Supplemental Draft is for players who, for whatever reason, were not eligible for the college draft. Therefore, there are usually only a select few who are worth considering. The amount of talent the NFL Draft consists of, in comparance to the Sup Draft, is very large....

    The point I'm making is that the NFL draft is the best way to get the most for your pick, basically because there's alot more talent to choose from. It's not ridiculous to keep those picks, and use them wisely on draft day, instead of rolling the dice on one player in the supplemental draft....

    One more thing, we got lucky getting DT M. Wright last year. Any of you who think that just because we hit it off getting Manny for a 5th, doesn't mean we'll automatically hit the mark again with Brooks. These kinds of cases, where a sup-player becomes a mainstay on the roster, is rare. Many sup-players never even make it in this league.....

    Either way it's just my opinion, ridiculous or not....

    PHINZ RULE!!!!
     
  16. jmorgan6977

    jmorgan6977 Puck the Fats

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    How dare we use a draft pick to draft a guy :shakeno:
     
  17. postermaster

    postermaster Finsavior

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    Thats right and you have all the rights to make your opinions...

    But, if we get him, he would be better than Wilkinson, Edwards, Jason Babin or Peter Boulware?
     
  18. BLITZKRIEG

    BLITZKRIEG ~LACUNA LEGIONS~

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    It's not about using the pick in itself, it's about getting the most value out of that pick. If Brooks is worth the pick, then by all means use it....

    Just remember that on draft day, when a "group of more talented players" are sitting right where we would have been drafting, you can't have that pick back...

    PHINZ RULE!!!!
     
  19. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Seasoned Veteran

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    Doubtfull that SABAN would use a 1st day pick on a supplemental player ... remember, Manny had the same ballywho last year ...

    I have no problem offering a 5 for a supp player ... it's a stretch at 4 ...

    Manny was well worth the pick last year ...
     
  20. Never say die

    Never say die A Porpoise Driven Life....

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    I think the trap you are falling into my friend is that you are attempting to evaluate a single talent against a whole pool of talent, and are using the wrong pool. By this I mean; if you were to look at Ahmad by NFL standards and rate him as an "NFL calibre LB" it should then be considered a no-brainer in giving up a 3rd round pick for this type of player. The trap of considering the rest of the pool as your measuring stick is that the whole pool can be lacking as NFL caliber. In which case he may be the best LB available per that years draft, but he's being measured against inferior players by NFL standards.
    I think, you have to keep a consistent rating of players on a stand-alone basis year-to-year by NFL standards; first. As Saban would say: "It's relative to the NFL's overall talent by which we evaluate players coming out regardless of which draft they come out in" (that's my rendition of Saban -using the word "relative"):wink: And then apply the best talent available philosophy or best at his position philosophy per pool of players available from there.

    It's not so much an either/or choice; as it is a prioritization thing.

    To prove the point all one has to do is recall the number of times you've heard commentators mention that while a current player in the conventional draft is projected as a first round pick - in a previous draft he would have been a later round pick. It's relative to the talent around him at the time he comes out. And since he's being considered to being brought into the NFL, the prioritization should be how he compares to NFL talent at his position and what one team can reasonably expect to pay for such talent.

    My final assessment: Ahmad is worthy of a 3rd round pick by NFL standards regardless of the means of entry.
     
  21. Alex44

    Alex44 Chicago Bears GM

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    As long as you get a quality player with your pick it doesnt matter whether its in the Sup. Draft, The Real Draft or a Trade

    Brooks is a top 10 talent and you can get him with a 3, you DO IT
     
  22. Tigers2003

    Tigers2003 FinHeaven VIP

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    Based on pure talent and potentail Ahmad Brooks is worth consideration. For a 4th or 5th yes. A 3rd is stretching. How does he compare to others who are considered 'cant misses'? How can he be compared to others like say a Ray Lewis or Boulware when he hasn't even played a down yet in the NFL?

    Not being argumentive but supp draft picks are like all picks when it is all boiled down; cost / value vs. risk / rewards. Other questions are; does the guy have a history of bouncing back from injuries? Is he injury prone or are we talking about an isolated event? Does the coaching staff think he can be 'coached up' to meet his potential? What are his relative strengths vs. weaknesses graded out in comparison to players who would be targeted in next year's regular draft?

    All of these need to be considered regardless of who is being targeted. Gut instinct points toward taking a chance but not giving up anything higher than 4th round.
     
  23. SR 7

    SR 7 A True Fan

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    best news I've heard in over 3 weeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  24. SR 7

    SR 7 A True Fan

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    ey bro i have been having problems with Prosportsdaily all week long. have you? it just doesnt load. the site says the name but the entier page is blank.
     
  25. zodiak

    zodiak Starter

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    I see both points of view here and usually I would agree 100% with blitz, however two things are in play here where I say go for it!

    1 LB is a need, I know Saban has added 2 FA pick ups and many feel David Bowens can be the other rush backer and maybe so.
    However if the reports are correct about Brooks talent then you have to IMO try and add him to your roster(now I freely admitt I am not familiar with Brooks so I have no personal feel for his talent)
    2 value I think that if you consider you can get a player in the Supp. Draft with a lower rnd pick then he would go in the spring Draft you are ahead of the game.
     
  26. BLITZKRIEG

    BLITZKRIEG ~LACUNA LEGIONS~

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    I'll admit I don't know much about A. Brooks, but he sounds like a decent player when he's healthy. I'm not sure if he's worth using a 3rd round pick on, but if we could get him for a 4th or 5th, why not??....

    I'm not trying to cause a debate here, but you have to look at both sides of the coin. If we're going to use a pick for Brooks, that's one less pick we have come draft day, I can only hope that Brooks is all he's being hyped up to be, and worth the gamble in the end....

    We'll see where this goes, but seeing how much respect Brooks is being given in some of these articles, I'm sure Miami wont be the only team bidding for his services come the sup-draft. That may drive up the offer as well....

    PHINZ RULE!!!
     
  27. derek

    derek FinHeaven VIP

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    You're entitled to your opinion, but I think that using a 3rd round pick on a guy with a 1st round grade is getting the most value out of the pick.

    Unless you think he wouldn't have carried better than a 3rd round grade had he kept his nose clean and entered the draft. That's definitely debatable given his conditioning and record.
     
  28. Show Me Your TDs

    Show Me Your TDs My head's on Fire!

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    I know people have quoted NE with interest in Brooks. Here is another article from today about their interest

    http://www.milforddailynews.com/sportsColumnists/view.bg?articleid=92662

    Interesting point in the article....
     
  29. Show Me Your TDs

    Show Me Your TDs My head's on Fire!

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    Also look for interest to spark up when Brooks holds his pro day workout on June 22.
     
  30. Fresh

    Fresh A True Fan

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    As long as we have our 1st & 2nd round pick next year, then I'm good with it.

    Are you guys trying to tell me that we have a shot at getting better potential at the LB spot in the 3rd or 4th round next year? Sorry, but not a chance in hell. If we've got a shot at Ahmad Brooks and we'd still have our top 2 picks, then you take it.

    How does the supplemental draft go anyways? How do you know where you're picking?
     
  31. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    People stop trying to use Saban's philosophy of "value" to judge certain things. First of all, how can u give a guy a "first round" grade with all the character issues he has, I mean its ridiculous . . . look at Claude Wroten . . he had a first round grade as well and he fell to the 3rd round I believe, and this guy has more character issues than him, not to mention he has been out of football shape from what i have read. I mean I guess I need to see a little more out of this guy (recent stuff), of course throwing a late round pick would be a definite, but its hard to justify anything higher than a 4th, because your talking about losing out on the oppurtunity to get a polished college star next year in the draft on the first day with little to no character issues. Hey Ricky Williams is a superstar RB, but he does us no good if he can't play for us, same thing applies . . first round talents are guys who can be depended on to deliver for the franchise in the present and future . . you cant say that about Brooks with all his character issues. If we can get him for a 5th, I say jump, maybe even a fourth but he has to look good. If we give up a third, I really hope the man has his act together in his workouts to justify that. 1st and 2nd out of the question.
     
  32. postermaster

    postermaster Finsavior

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    No, it works perfectly fine for me..., maybe you should try to open that page in other computer...
     
  33. postermaster

    postermaster Finsavior

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    Which would be our greatest OLB addition?

    *Donnie Edwards
    *Wilkinson
    *Peter Boulware
    *Jason Babin
    *Ahamd Brooks
     
  34. miadfins

    miadfins Scout Team

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    if saban used a 5th on manny, i doubt he sees a problem with using a 3rd for brooks if he in shape and saban has the same opinion of his talents as most scouts. Manny was a talented inconsistent underachiever that never produced at the level brooks has played over the last 2 seasons. i really doubt saban values all supp. players the same as you are suggesting.
     
  35. OneHondo

    OneHondo Lifetime Contract

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    You could be right but what if ???
    Brooks does become a force as a Pro linebacker, he does become a player who would have been worth a top ten pick in the regular draft. What if he becomes a top linebacker in the NFL? That is not a decision you can take back, not a supplemental pick you can retake or do over.
    If, as we hope, the Dolphins record improves each year, the Dolphins draft picks will come later and later in the draft. As the picks come later in each round, there is less chance to get the best talent. I trust in Saban to harvest the best talent available with our pick but that doesn't change the fact that the premium talent will be harder to find. That is JMO.
     
  36. TampaFinsFan01

    TampaFinsFan01 A True Fan

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    Great post. I think because these fans get bored on draft day, they don't want us to trade picks. If you can get a guy on your team this year, and get him in a lower round than you could get him next year, its foolish NOT to take him. Sorry it makes draft day a little less exciting for some fans. I am sure Nick Saban is really concerned about draft weekend being boring because we don't have a fourth and sixth round pick. :shakeno:
     
  37. GoonBoss

    GoonBoss Finheaven Templar Super Donator Donator

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    :lol:

    No kidding.

    This season is looking good becasue of the "terrible" draft this year since we only got Many Wright, Daunte Culpepper...etc......Terrible.

    Oh well.

    All will be forgoten if we win....That's the deal.
     
  38. HybridPHIN 23

    HybridPHIN 23 the N E W Dolphilbins

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    I think you try to get as much value out of your picks as you can, whether you use them in the draft or trade them. C'mon a 2nd for Duante, a third for Brooks. You can't get get that kinda value in the actual draft.
     
  39. KTOWNFINFAN

    KTOWNFINFAN Seasoned Veteran

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    Yes I totally see what you are saying. We have to keep all our picks for next years draft, even if it means passing on getting a highly talented player at a discounted price, so you get to enjoy us getting to pick in every round. God forbid you would have to suffer through another horrible day of watching next years draft knowing you have to wait through a WHOLE round without seeing us make a pick. I mean it is just not worth us becoming a better team if we have to put you through so much mental torment. :shakeno:
     
  40. Phinja

    Phinja You Can't See Me...

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    I think a third on a guy who can be a "Julius Peppers" type pass-rusher (Gil Brandt's words, not mine) is WELL worth the investment.

    If he pans out to be a Pro Bowler, great. If not, we used a third round pick on a player that didn't pan out. WooptyFreakinDoo. It wouldn't be the first time a third round pick didn't cut the mustard.
     
  41. Phinja

    Phinja You Can't See Me...

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    Exactly. Does anyone honestly even watch the draft past the first round? I mean the first round alone is like 5 hours long! I usualy wont watch past our pick to be honest...
     
  42. yboord028

    yboord028 Scout Team

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    For the Future:Ahmad Brooks

    For Now:Edwards or Boulware
     
  43. yboord028

    yboord028 Scout Team

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    This is a player at the inside linebacker position that is a absolute terror
    He has the type of size, speed and agility combination you look for at the position, he somewhat resembles current NFL linebacker "Ray Lewis", but he is a both taller and bigger and he is similar in his approach to the game, he has a fire and intensity that is rare getting to the ball carrier, he is a no nonsense type of player that once he arrives to the ball he explodes through the tackle and gives no extra yards after contact
    He is the type of player that flings his body all around the field unconsciously, gives relentless effort on every play, along with a motor that is restless, his pursuit to the ball is unmatched, and is a very instinctive player as well, he is quite often used in blitz packages for his teams defense, and is pretty effective at collapsing the pocket
    This is the type of player that does not except defeat, and will be a leader for any defense he competes on, he is the only player comparable to Ray Lewis I have ever seen, he is just bigger! http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=498

    Heres a profile of him

    Hes also failed a drug test so we might have another ricky on our hand
     
  44. DefensiveEnd#76

    DefensiveEnd#76 Football Guru

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    His weight was around 280 pounds recently as a linebacker and ran only in the 5.0 second range in the 40. That combined with the fact that there are major character issues with the guy. I wouldn't want him.
     
  45. KingCrowder

    KingCrowder Perennial All-Pro

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    That makes no sense at all. if a team wants him and they believe Saban will give up a 3rd. than they will offer a 3rd if theres is higher or maybe even a 2nd. I'm sorry but it would not work the way you said it.
     
  46. djphinfan

    djphinfan Perennial All-Pro

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    I do understand your point BK. i myself have thought about that, but i have a gut feeling that Jason Allen,Derek Hagan,Joe Toledo, and Roderick Wright are going to be future starters for us. that right there is an unbelieveable draft without having a full arsenal of draft picks, add it to the first year and i don't care how or when he drafts just keep doing it baby.
     
  47. Redneck Friend

    Redneck Friend minuteman

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    OH MAN!!! we are gonna give up another pic for
    and injured player?

    isn't there any healthy players nick likes?
     
  48. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    I know its scary right, we pick up Jason Allen comming off of a MAJOR injury, alot of people don't realize how big of an injury he had. Then Rod Wright has a torn rotator cuff. Manny Wright is showing up to camp out of shape, now we wanna get Brooks who is also out of shape. Plus lets throw Vick in there for character purposes lol, I think we are trying to become the East's version of the Oakland Raiders. He should of just got Wroten instead of Hagan, that would have been the icing on the cake.
     
  49. Mike13

    Mike13 I am a golden god

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    Thats good if we use a 5th rounder pick on him. But I don't see us spending more than a 4th round pick.
     
  50. Geforce

    Geforce FinHeaven VIP

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    Where did you get your information from?
     

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