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OLB's / Pass Rushers

Branch is probably all over the place because he's only had one year of legitimate production. He doesn't have an explosive first step whatsoever, slow to get off the snap. Furthermore, I think people have become weary of Clemson defensive ends. Gaines Adams, Phillip Merling, Ricky Sapp, DaQuan Bowers, and now Andre Branch were all overrated. Branch is still raw in technique, but I actually like him better than I did any of the Clemson DE's that came before him... I didn't like any of them.

As for Coples, I don't know why a team would try to project him as an OLB, but he could probably play a little bit from a 2-point stance. He's done it at UNC. The concern with Coples is that he doesn't play up to the "freakish" attributes he possesses. Also concerns that he's not a team player and only cares about his draft stock. UNC tried to get him to move back inside so they could get more explosive pass rushers on the field at DE (Donta Paige-Moss) but Coples refused because he was worried it would hinder his draft stock.

Coples is one of those guys who is impossible to predict in the NFL. If he wants to, he'll dominate and be a pro-bowler. If he doesn't, he'll fizzle out. Nobody knows how bad he wants it other than him. All you can go on is what you see on the tape.... and on the tape he's not quite as dominant as he's supposed to be.
 
hooshoops said:
kroy bierman has got some pass rush talent...he's underrated imo...not sure i like him though as a 34 olb but i do think he could help us in 4 man pass rush fronts...
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He played OLB in college at Montana and had a great career. He should be a natural in the 3-4.
 
I'd take a look at Brandon Lindsey from Pitt. Been a starter at LB, but last year moved to DE for a season when Greg Romeus got hurt and put together a very good season.
 
I went back and watched some more of several of these guys last night with this particular thread in mind. Jake Bequette is a guy that I've mentioned literally dozens of times as one of the most underrated players in the country at his position, and I believe CKParrothead is rather fond of him also. However, he's strictly a 4-3 DE. Very stiff and doesn't at all project as a standup linebacker in my opinion. Bequette and Malik Jackson are two DE's that I think are pretty underrated.

Moving on, I watched more of Andre Branch (specifically his game against South Carolina where Clemson's defense got drilled... which is why I chose that game.) One of his sacks came on a play where he was completely unblocked at the LOS, and South Carolina tried to block him with a freshman tailback, Brandon Wilds.

His other sack was actually more of a 'clean-up' sack. The actual play was made by Malliciah Goodman in the backfield by destroying his blocker, Branch just happened to be in the right spot to clean it up and get credit for the sack. Other than these two plays, Branch got no real pressure on Connor Shaw, and didn't flat out beat his offensive lineman on a single play throughout the whole game.



I also watched some of Sammy Brown. The positive for Sammy Brown is that he obviously already plays from a 2-point stance in Houston's 3-4 defense. His TFL's are a little inflated due to being the over-hanging weakside defender where all he does is tee off in the backfield on every single snap. He likes to chase the play down from the backside when unblocked on zone running plays. He's not required to play "honest" by dropping into coverage, scraping backs out of the backfield, or setting the edge. He's strictly a weakside linebacker in the NFL.

He has a decent first step, although his best move is an inside counter to beat the tackle's post leg. Doesn't look very physical and can stay blocked and get washed out in the run game. Joseph Fauria had little trouble blocking him in the run game. Probably a situational pass rusher right now who could help out in nickel situations. Would be a more effective pass rusher on 3rd downs than Koa Misi currently is, although he's not as complete of a player.

Reminds me a little bit of the Chris Carter kid CK was gushing over last year coming out of Fresno St.
 
Cam Johnson is a kid who I actually get more impressed by the more I watch him. He absolutely tortured Brandon Washington when UVA played Miami.

He's a beautiful looking specimen of a DE/OLB hybrid. Well proportioned throughout his entire body.... looks the part. Re-directs better than you think because of instincts, and is always in control of his feet.

Average 1st step. Not great. Not bad.

The only thing is I haven't seen him play from a 2-point stance, he plays with his hand on the ground. Linebacker drills are going to tell the story with Cam Johnson as to how well he projects as an OLB. Although I did see him drop into coverage once in the Miami game on a zone blitz when Miami was in the red zone... the ball went right by him for a touchdown.

He has natural power in his hands, he just needs to learn how to use them better to shed blocks quicker.

Needs to add a spin move or some sort of counter and he'd have more sacks. He's not going to bend the arc and beat tackles with speed by lowering his shoulder and getting underneath them the way Brian Orakpo or Cam Wake can. He's not that type of player. I think if he shows well in linebacker drills, he'll be looked at as a potential strongside candidate as a standup OLB.
 
Bruce Irvin is easily the best pure athlete I've seen of all the potential 'hybrid' candidates. Re-directs and changes direction as quickly and easily as Von Miller did.... Irvin is that caliber of athlete. Amazing agility.... and can cover ground like a safety. Terrific motor and is always hustling and chasing until the whistle.

Dynamite 1st step and initial quickness off the snap.

However, he hasn't yet learned how to convert his speed into power on initial contact with his blocker. Nothing in terms of a bullrush, and doesn't have the lead in his pants to anchor effectively.... strictly a rush 3-4 'backer.

Still very raw as a defender. Gets by mostly on athletic ability and doesn't yet understand what leverage and discipline on defense is all about. Although outside of the SEC, those things really aren't stressed by coaches in college football anyway. They teach just enough to get them by due to restraints on practice time.

Plenty of upside with Bruce Irvin.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Bruce Irvin is easily the best pure athlete I've seen of all the potential 'hybrid' candidates. Re-directs and changes direction as quickly and easily as Von Miller did.... Irvin is that caliber of athlete. Amazing agility.... and can cover ground like a safety. Terrific motor and is always hustling and chasing until the whistle.

Dynamite 1st step and initial quickness off the snap.

However, he hasn't yet learned how to convert his speed into power on initial contact with his blocker. Nothing in terms of a bullrush, and doesn't have the lead in his pants to anchor effectively.... strictly a rush 3-4 'backer.

Still very raw as a defender. Gets by mostly on athletic ability and doesn't yet understand what leverage and discipline on defense is all about. Although outside of the SEC, those things really aren't stressed by coaches in college football anyway. They teach just enough to get them by due to restraints on practice time.

Plenty of upside with Bruce Irvin.
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Hey Ted, I haven`t seen you promoting C.Upshaw as our pick or in general as a prospect, is there any red flags with him or what`s up there?
 
I feel like I've got a good handle on Coples. Even better handle on him after that bowl game. I'm not backing away from him, I'm sprinting toward him. Dominant player. Would you put him at 3-4 OLB? Ideally no but I wouldn't shy away from it either. It would depend on what else you have, what other resources and how you feel you have to best leverage them.

Cam Johnson is IMO a very interesting player. He looks like a linebacker in proportioning and even in some of his movements, but a jumbo sized linebacker. It's like how you don't realize some point guards or two guards are 6'6" until you stand them next to another normal/athletically proportioned human that is 6'0". That's how it strikes me when Cam stands next to his fellow teammate linebackers. Not unlike Allen Bailey, come to think on it.

I like players that break the mold a little. I'd like to see Cam stay at DE because I feel like he has the potential to make plays vs run and pass as a guy that can attack and shed, and get after the passer. Those dual threats are a little more rare than you'd think nowadays.

But, if you get him into LB drills and he kills it, I suppose I could be convinced to put him in space.
 
3rdandinches said:
Hey Ted, I haven`t seen you promoting C.Upshaw as our pick or in general as a prospect, is there any red flags with him or what`s up there?
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None. I have zero doubt that Courtney Upshaw is the most dominant defensive player I've seen in college football this year, and most of last year too, behind only Marcell Dareus and Von Miller. He's the #2 defensive player in the draft behind Morris Claiborne in my opinion. He's a legitimate plug-and-play... and will compete for DROY honors as a rookie. Same as Von Miller and Clay Matthews. He instantly makes whatever defense he goes to better.

His physicality borders on brutality. He'll literally hurt people.

I've mentioned prior somewhere around here that I'd take Upshaw in the top 10 before I would Coples. I think Upshaw is a better player.... and I like Coples.
 
ckparrothead said:
I feel like I've got a good handle on Coples. Even better handle on him after that bowl game. I'm not backing away from him, I'm sprinting toward him. Dominant player. Would you put him at 3-4 OLB? Ideally no but I wouldn't shy away from it either. It would depend on what else you have, what other resources and how you feel you have to best leverage them.

Cam Johnson is IMO a very interesting player. He looks like a linebacker in proportioning and even in some of his movements, but a jumbo sized linebacker. It's like how you don't realize some point guards or two guards are 6'6" until you stand them next to another normal/athletically proportioned human that is 6'0". That's how it strikes me when Cam stands next to his fellow teammate linebackers. Not unlike Allen Bailey, come to think on it.

I like players that break the mold a little. I'd like to see Cam stay at DE because I feel like he has the potential to make plays vs run and pass as a guy that can attack and shed, and get after the passer. Those dual threats are a little more rare than you'd think nowadays.

But, if you get him into LB drills and he kills it, I suppose I could be convinced to put him in space.
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Cam Johnson reminds me a lot of Jarret Johnson when he was at Bama. I think Cam is a very similar prospect, and makes a similar pro.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
None. I have zero doubt that Courtney Upshaw is the most dominant defensive player I've seen in college football this year, and most of last year too, behind only Marcell Dareus and Von Miller. He's the #2 defensive player in the draft behind Morris Claiborne in my opinion. He's a legitimate plug-and-play... and will compete for DROY honors as a rookie. Same as Von Miller and Clay Matthews. He instantly makes whatever defense he goes to better.

His physicality borders on brutality. He'll literally hurt people.

I've mentioned prior somewhere around here that I'd take Upshaw in the top 10 before I would Coples. I think Upshaw is a better player.... and I like Coples.
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Outside of trading up for A.Luck wouldn`t it, by a far margin, be our smartest move to draft him over any other player?
 
3rdandinches said:
Outside of trading up for A.Luck wouldn`t it, by a far margin, be our smartest move to draft him over any other player?
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I really like Upshaw, and I hear Seattle loves him to (want him as the elephant backer position CLay Matthews played at USC). I think come draft time he might get less press than he deserves depending on what underclassmen declare.

Other guys worth looking at in rounds 2 or 3 are Stanford's CHase Thomas, Boise's Shea McClellin, and Lindsey from Pitt I mentioned earlier.

In the late round (partly cause I know him) take a look at Adrian Robinson from Temple. Nice guy but dumber than a bunch of rocks.

Actually... this draft is nicer than I thought at OLB
 
3rdandinches said:
Outside of trading up for A.Luck wouldn`t it, by a far margin, be our smartest move to draft him over any other player?
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Completely agree. I think anytime you can get your hands on an elite pass rusher, you should just about always take him. Especially one as versatile as Upshaw.

Being able to affect the opposing team's quarterback is just as important as when the opposing team is able to affect yours. Upshaw isn't just a pass rusher though, he's a play maker. He's going to cause turnovers by forcing fumbles, and cause quarterbacks to make mistakes even when he doesn't quite register the sack.

He plays through pain. He plays hurt. I've seen his ankle so sprained he could barely even walk to the sidelines after forcing a 3-and-out, and still bringing it down after down getting after the quarterback.

Andrew Luck, Trent Richardson, and Morris Claiborne are really the only 3 players I would take over Upshaw.
 
I would be happy with Upshaw if the Dolphins can't get Luck (outside chance, of course).
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Completely agree. I think anytime you can get your hands on an elite pass rusher, you should just about always take him. Especially one as versatile as Upshaw.

Being able to affect the opposing team's quarterback is just as important as when the opposing team is able to affect yours. Upshaw isn't just a pass rusher though, he's a play maker. He's going to cause turnovers by forcing fumbles, and cause quarterbacks to make mistakes even when he doesn't quite register the sack.

He plays through pain. He plays hurt. I've seen his ankle so sprained he could barely even walk to the sidelines after forcing a 3-and-out, and still bringing it down after down getting after the quarterback.

Andrew Luck, Trent Richardson, and Morris Claiborne are really the only 3 players I would take over Upshaw.
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You think T.Richardson is that much more valuable in a pass happy league and we have Bush and Thomas already? He's that much of a difference maker.
 
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