Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by DKphin, Jan 26, 2012.
I hope Csonka does not read this:
The Marks Bros (collectively)
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You guys are on drugs.
#11. The one and only. Other than Dan, the greatest Dolphin in my book.
Followed closely by Zonk and Stanfill
from what ive seen, 1981-2011:
1.Rob Konrad 2.Marlon Greenwood 3.Arturo Freeman 4.Wade Smith at left tackle 5.Shayne Graham
I was Geeked when we signed Konrad. I thought that guy would be a difference maker.
Marino, Stevenson, Larry Zonk,Little, Langer....they're all in the HOF so how can anyone pick guys that are not even there yet
Because football is passion.
Jim Jensen defines football for me. I give a crap about the HoF.
heh, now that I think of it, you never did use this sig I made for you before your "hiatus" eh?
Didn't remember ever getting that one.
I was in a different place though.
Jim Jensen always has defined football for me.
ETA; And Dannica Patrick defines sexy.
Other than Mrs Goon.
ETA2; I love the card with him with his helmet tilted back and the beard.
the guy always seemed to have a handle on the entire game of football.
Ricky Williams recently topped the 10,000 yard mark for rushing yards. Had he stayed on track, miami would have never drafted brown, and williams would easily post 1200 yards seasons in 04',05',06',07'....... (he wound up accumulating 758 yards in that PRIME 4 season span, making appearances in two of them.) Just hanging around posting average YPC would have catapulted him to the 15000 yard club, the HOF, and maybe even #2 on this list !
Marino, Thomas, Csonka, Griese, Little.
If you're so inclined, you're still welcome to grab/use it considering I made it expressly for you. It's just sitting there in the back of the archives gathering dust. :idk:
And what's this about Danica? I thought Alyssa Milano was your ultimate squeeze?
Two words; Threesome.
Dwight. ( best center ever )
Zonk. ( best fb ever).
Ricky individually meant more for his team than any anyone other than Marino. It's hard to put him on because all the issues but its hard to keep him off too.
Not enough love for the hall of fame fullback that was MVP of Super Bowl 8 in the first few posts. For shame.
Left out the dancing queen for quitting on us, Zach Thomas because it's hard to put him ahead of hall of famers, Shula because he's not a player, and Warfield because his best years were with Cleveland, and they were mostly a running team during his time.
Ricky quit on the team, and kept getting suspended. He's not now, nor will he ever be in the hall of fame, so it's VERY easy to keep him off the list.
marino, zonk, griese
No love for Richmond Webb??
2. Larry Zonka
3. Jim Langer
4. Killer Bee's
5. Marks Brothers
Some of my favorite "Non HOF" candidates
1. John Offerdahl
2. AJ Duhe
3. Jason Taylor
4. Manny Fernandez
5. Keith Jackson
IMO, there has only been one meaningful period in franchise history -- the wondrous early '70s -- so no chance I'm picking anyone outside that era.
Those were the 5 best players during our championship run, with apologies to Anderson and Scott and Fernandez and Buoniconti and Langer and Keuchenberg, all terrific in their own right.
That group of players was so dedicated that losses were not tolerated, and in the rare occasions they happened the post game radio show was all but silent on WIOD. Henry Barrow would be hard pressed to find anyone speaking above a whisper in the locker room. I'll never forget it. Contrast to these days, with Sean Smith celebrating a fluke interception while down 24-7, or Vontae Davis taking over the mindless grin role from Ronnie Brown. Jason Taylor would have fit well on the early '70s teams but otherwise its been difficult to find anyone equally passionate as that group, or as pained upon failure. One of the reasons I supported the Reggie Bush acquisition was because he's that type of team oriented guy, witnessed by shoving Matt Leinart into the end zone against Notre Dame in 2005. Not exactly surprising he smashed his helmet to the ground on the sideline late during an agonizing defeat.
Marino was undeniably talented but those years were an insult after experiencing the '70s teams. As a stats guy I could look at a handful of numbers and realize we were masochistically eliminating ourselves by finesse and imbalance, since too much passing naturally softens your own defense and team identity. Shula somehow gets credit for adapting to personnel when all he really did was forfeit a dozen or more years by pretending he was playing under rules and application that wouldn't be adopted for another 25 years. The defining moment was the San Diego game 1984, when we dropped our rushing attempts by severe amount, never to return. The 1983 team maintained a stubborn hold on a physical approach but by playoffs 1984 we were a pantyhose passing team, doomed to be crushed. Other than isolated spots to dependably bet against the Dolphins, the Marino years were an incomparable waste. Luckily the Canes surge was parallel. When in doubt, bet against the Dolphins and with the Canes. It was incredible how often that simple two-team parlay worked during those years.
1. Cecil "The Diesel" Collins
2. JJ Johnson
3. Rob Konrad
4. Orande Gadsden
5. John Avery
My real list since I started watching in 1995
3. Zach Thomas
4. Patrick Surtain/Sam Madison
5. Jake Long (too soon?)
I've always wondered if Ricky never retired to live in a tent, who would we have drafted in that 2004? draft. My money would have been on Aaron Rodgers or Braylon Edwards. His decision to retire may have had franchise-changing implications that most people don't fully realize. Remember, Rodgers was expected to go very high in that draft, some people even saying he could be number one overall. Although, we did just sign AJ Feeley, so I'm sure Spielman thought we had that position covered...
Shula was always impressed by Coryell and Dan Fouts. They could score at will against anyone. The game was changing. In the playoff game against the Chargers, we fell behind 24-0(if my memory is correct) and we had to abandon the running attack game plan led by David Woodley. Enter Don Strock, and 410 passing yards later, a near miracle comeback was ruined by 2 missed field goals by Uwe Von Schamen. Shula had seen the light. In the next draft Dan Marino fell to us and there was no going back to the ground and pound.
Regarding the best center ever
You might want to check out Mike Webster
Stephenson only started 87 games ...8 years
Webster started 217 games...17 years
His career ended after the 1990 season, with a total of 245 games played at center.
"Iron Mike" anchored the Steeler's offensive line during much of their run of four Super Bowl victories from 1974 to 1979 and is considered the best center in NFL history.
Webster was proven to have been disabled before retiring from the NFL. After retirement Webster suffered from amnesia, dementia, depression, and acute bone and muscle pain. He lived out of his pickup truck or train stations between Wisconsin and Pittsburgh, even though his friends and former teammates were willing to rent apartments for him. In his last years Webster lived with his youngest son, Garrett, who though only a teenager at the time, had to act as the parent to his own father. Webster's wife divorced him six months before his death in 2002. He was only 50 years old.
After death, Mike Webster was diagnosed with chronic traumatic encephalopathy, a neuro degenerative disease.[SUP][/SUP] It has been speculated that Webster's ailments were due to wear and tear sustained over his playing career; some doctors estimated he had been in the equivalent of "25,000 automobile crashes" in over 25 years of playing football
This is precisely why it is not advisable to trade 1st round draft picks. If we trade up and mortgage the future on a player that is not a slam dunk HOF (impossible to know) player, it isn't worth the risk.
Very good point.
I agree about Webster. You can't beat his excellence and longevity.
Stephenson might have had a similar career if not for the cut block by the Jets Joe Klecko. It ended his career.
At the time of his injury, Stephenson was playing the center position better than Webster or anyone.
Just another good reason to hate the Jets.
2. Dwight Stephenson
3. Jake Scott
4. Zach Thomas
5. Jason Taylor
My Top 10 1-Marino 2- Zonk 3-Stephenson 4-Paul Warfield 5-Jason Taylor 6-Bob Greise 7-Zach Thomas 8-Bob kuchenberg 9- Richmond Webb 10- Ricky Williams
Those Chargers scored at will against everyone and never advanced to the Super Bowl. One of my most confident bets of my lifetime was taking the Raiders +7 in the 1980 AFC Championship Game. Oakland was better in every significant category but the bar stool pass happy crowd decided San Diego needed to be giving 7 points. The Raiders won by a touchdown and it should have been more decisive than that.
Everybody loves to focus on the 1981 Chargers/Dolphins game while ignoring the playoff rematch a year later, when Woodley and the Dolphins destroyed San Diego despite public prognosticators picking San Diego to win more comfortably than a year earlier. Bob Trumpy and Bob Costas during the pre game show didn't think it would be a competitive game.
Shula saw a light that wasn't there and he tossed aside any chance to win another title. The NFC in the '80s was stocking up on brutes while the AFC panicked after the 1983 draft and decided they needed cornerbacks to cover their dainty wide receivers, and so forth. The Super Bowl consequently was one refreshing NFC massacre after another for a full decade, thank you very much. Not until Denver showed up with Terrell Davis and out rushed the Packers 39 attempts to 20 in the 1997 season Super Bowl was the AFC's long embarrassing drought ended.
I'm not impressed with conventional wisdom when it's nonsense.
And BTW, Mike Webster never approached Dwight Stephenson's level of performance. It's like one girl who is astonishing for a decade and another who is nice looking for twice as long. You'll remember astonishing.
Absolutely NO way that 3 of the top 5 should be Dan MArino,Bob Griese,and Larry Csonka !! Final !!
For the other 2 spots everyone can debate,but theres no doubt about Marino,and shouldnt be at all about Csonk and Griese ! Without those 2,there are no Miami Super Bowls,no undefeated seaon !! So argue over the final 2 spots all you want,nobody in here,or anyone else will ever convince me these 3 should not be in the top 5 !!!!!!!!!
1. Ray Lucas
2. Mark Columbo
3. Cleo Lemon
4. Joey Harrington
Dolphins in the Hall of Fame.
The greatest Center of all-time was Jim Otto, who played for 15 years and was an all-pro 13 times and 13 time pro bowler. I would rank Dwight Stephenson second, Mel Hein third, Jay Hilgenberg 4th, Jim Ringo 5th and Webster 6th. Nick Mangold is the only current player I would have in my top-ten.
Again people are listing Taylor and Thomas and leaving out Csonka and Griese,or rating them above Griese and Csonka. And I believe alot of it has to do with the younger generation and maybe many of you not seeing Csonk and Griese play. Those guys led us to 3 straight Super Bowls,2 wins in them and an undefeated season. I love Zack and Jason,but no way do they go on my list,or any list above the Csonk and Griese !
And for that matter,Langer was indeed an outstanding center,the guy was flat out a player who controlled his position. And if we are including coaches then Don Shula has to be on the list,and I could even venture into ownership and Joe Robbie in those glory days we played in the ornge bowl especially.
Trust it from this older guy who was around to watch Csonk and Griese,those guys were good,Griese was as an intelligent QB that ever lined up behind center,and threw the ball very good as well, while Csonk was a mean,bad *** who loved to run over people,AND DID !!!! Without those 2 there are no 3 Super Bowls in a row,winning 2 of them,and no undefeated season. I put those 3 on my list,and then Shula as well,and a multi tie for 5th after that with the Mark brothers,Joe Robbie,Jason and Zack and Dwight Stepheson. I know,I know,thats about 10,but the tie for 5th is so many greats I cant leave off and just have to put them all in a tie...lol
Marino, Stephenson, Little, Griese, JT. Csonka and Ricky both quit the team....both great but I think the contributions of the 5 I listed are greater
1A & 1B Csonka/Marino or Marino/Csonka.
These two are at the top with some separation to spot 3. 3-10 are hard to seperate, so you can't really stop at 5 in my book.
1. Dan Marino, 2. Dwight Stephenson, 3. Larry Csonka, 4. Larry Little, 5. Jason Taylor
Nice reply, but I disagree with your revisionist history. Woodley was an inconsistent player that had issues. Why waste Marino's ability by running the ball? The better explanation would be that the AFC could not field a decent defense during those years. I do not want to derail the thread so I will leave it at that.
BTW, regarding Stephenson, he was the best center in the game until he was cut down by Klecko.
Shame on you for leaving out Charles Jordan and Larry Shannon
Csonka didnt just quit the team,it was a huge contract dispute and he felt he was'nt being offered what he deserved,cant blame someone for trying to better there position,just as ALL NFL players did this year. Csonka would have been at Miami for a long time had they done him right,and I hated it when he left,but he did what he had to do to make the money he felt he deserved.
None the less,that doesnt diminish what he did for the team and the hell of a bruising back he was when he was here. The man was like a dam battering ram who didnt run around people,he ran over and through them. He was Earl Cambell before Earl Cambell !! He was one bad *** running back who also was a great blocker and could catch and run the ball out of the backfield. Again,no list is complete without the Csonk on it,just a shame the younger generation doesnt realize how really great and instumental to our Championships this man was ! I love Zach Thomas,and absolutely great guy,but he won 0 championships,same for Jason Taylor. And Im telling you,without Larry Csonka and his bruising running from the backfield,we dont win the 2 championships we did. When he did leave,our championships stopped ! I think it was the very next year in the Sea of Hands loss to the Raiders if Im not mistaken.
The list of bad players over the years is definitely much easier.
Shut up you.
That's another over done thread.