Our 2012 Draft Class Talent vs. The Rest of The League

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by rayfinkle5, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. rayfinkle5

    rayfinkle5 Starter

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    I’ve been reading a lot lately about our lack of performance on offense and I am wondering who is more to blame, our scouts and GM or our coaches? Looking at the 2012 draft class and how some players have performed on other teams as compared to our draft picks reveals our picks are underperforming in my opinion. Did we pick worse talent or are we doing a worse job of coaching up our guys? Take a look at the following stats…

    QB’s:
    Tannehill (8): 2559 yards, 57.9% completions, 7 TD/12 INT, 72.3 QB rating
    Weeden (22): 2820 yards, 57% completions, 13 TD/15 INT, 72.3 QB rating
    Wilson (75): 2344 yards, 63.4% completions, 19 TD/8 INT, 95.2 QB rating
    Foles (88): 793 yards, 60.9% completions, 2 TD/3 INT, 73.3 QB rating

    We currently rank 23[SUP]rd[/SUP] in the NFL in passing and Tannehill ranks near the bottom of all QB's in QB rating. I am a fan of Tannehill and I believe he was the right pick but how can we expect him to carry this offense unless he has a legitimate threat at WR to throw to? We had plenty of opportunities to sign, trade for or draft a #1 WR last offseason and failed to do so. I put this deficiency on Ireland. Didn't he claim during a Hard Knocks episode that our receiving core would look far different on opening day? What happened with that?

    RB’s:
    Miller (97): 27 carries, 145 yards (5.4 ypc), 1 TD
    Turbin (106): 45 carries, 182 yards (4.0 ypc), 0 TD
    Rainey (159): 21 carries, 79 yards (3.8 ypc), 2 TD
    Ballard (170): 127 carries, 468 yards (3.7 ypc), 1 TD
    Morris (173): 230 carries, 1106 yards (4.8 ypc), 6 TD
    Brown (229): 75 carries, 488 yards (6.5 ypc), 4 TD’s

    The RB position blows me away! I could not be more confident in Lamar Miller's ability and believe he is more talented then all of the RB’s drafted behind him (including Morris and Brown). Why aren’t we using him more? The responses I hear most frequently are his lack in ability to pass protect and that he is struggling to learn the offense. Really? How are other teams able to get their 6[SUP]th[/SUP] and 7[SUP]th[/SUP] round selections up to speed and find productive ways to use them? Certainly, being drafted 2-3 rounds behind our guy suggests these players had deficiencies of their own entering the draft. We currently rank 17[SUP]th[/SUP] in the NFL in rushing which isn't horrible but, it isn’t productive enough to keep a talent like Miller on the bench. Once considered the #2 RB in the draft behind Richardson, Miller sits on a shiny 5.4 yards per carry average while D. Thomas continues to get ample opportunity to prove he's only worth a 3.5 yard gain (one of the lowest ypc averages in the league). I think the coaches get the blame on this one. Quit talking about how excited you are about Miller's ability. Instead, coach him up and insert him in the lineup!

    TE’s:
    Fleener (34): 22 catches, 248 yards, 1 TD
    Allen (64): 36 catches, 435 yards, 2 TD
    Egnew (78) 0 catches, 0 yards, 0 TD’s

    I understand that Fleener and Allen were both drafted ahead of Egnew but as the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] TE selected in the draft is it too much to expect that we get a guy we could at least activate during the year? As one of the weakest teams at the TE position and the 24[SUP]th[/SUP] ranked receiving team you would think a 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] round TE talent would be able to contribute in some way. I blame everyone for this one, including (and especially) Egnew himself.

     
  2. Twitches Brew

    Twitches Brew A True Fan

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    Yea it's all kinda sad.
    Tannehill was a project/gamble, we knew that; it's just a shame he hasn't played as well as guys picked way behind him like Wilson, who was also a risk.

    Just as a rule I give any TEs, WRs, and DBs (not picked in 1st rd) two nfl seasons to get it together; the game is really different at those positions.

    The RB bit bothers me the most - i just don't get how we pick Miller where we did (for his talent) and then not play him.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2012
  3. Geforce

    Geforce FinHeaven VIP

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    The GM and our coaches. The GM for drafting the players he did and the coaches for not finding roles for the players to excel in.
     
  4. ANUFan

    ANUFan A True Fan Donator

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    Is this another bash Ireland, Philbin fire them all Thread? Geez!
     
  5. tay0365

    tay0365 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Wilson does have better talent around him, and eventually his lack of height will catch up to him, while Tannehill will get better talent to help him...unlike coaching staffs, this coaching staff wants to succeed with the pass, not shy away from it.
     
  6. Geforce

    Geforce FinHeaven VIP

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    I'm not so sure that it will. Wilson seems to have learned from Drew Brees on how to manipulate the pocket to find that necessary passing window needed to complete passes.
     
  7. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    I'm pleased with this draft. I must admit that I didn't expect Egnew to be invisible, but other than that I'm pleased with the draft. Vernon has shown flashes. Miller has looked good, so as long as he learns to block and stays healthy, he's a good pick. Decent draft overall.

    Tannehill has exceeded my and most analysts' expectations. He shows all of the high ceiling we expected and less of the flaws ... you couldn't really ask more of a kid with 19 collegiate starts at QB, a weak OL and a very bad WR corps. His accuracy is very very good and more consistent mechanics than expected. I expected a lot of tunnel-vision picks, but that hasn't been a big problem. Few of his picks were innacurate throws or bad decisions, which is really rare. Most were batted passe or WR's who gifted defenders the ball. If he had better red zone targets I think his TD's would go up dramatically.

    The other players are important, no doubt, but its Tannehill that makes or breaks this draft class. Thus far, I'm pleasantly surprised and thing we may have found our QB for the next decade and a half.
     
  8. Twitches Brew

    Twitches Brew A True Fan

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    I do think Vernon, Martin, and Tanny make this a solid draft at this point. the invisible skill players is frustrating, but hopefully they come around (i suspect miller and egnew will...soon).
     
  9. dolfin530

    dolfin530 Student of the Game

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    Tannehill's stats are terrible but no doubt he is the Franchise QB. RB wise Miller is behind Bush and Thomas but if reggie walks Miller will get his carries and potentially be our starter. Fleener and Allen's stats are not outrageous. Fasano and Clay have been solid. I am a little disappointed Egnew hasn't even been active. It's funny the positions we drafted have decent veteran guys hitting FA. Long, Bush, and Fasano.
     
  10. rayfinkle5

    rayfinkle5 Starter

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    Where do you get that? I'm just looking at other rookie talent impacting their teams and trying to figure out why our recent draft picks aren't having a similar impact. Did we draft our guys too high or are we not coaching them up as well? Perhaps there is another reason. I never mentioned firing anyone and I am quite happy with our current regime... at least the coaches anyway. And although I am not a huge supporter of Ireland I do think this draft class was one of our best in recent memory.
     
  11. Mogwai

    Mogwai Seasoned Veteran

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    I think we all wish we'd gotten more production from this year's draft class, but even saying that, this was still Ireland's best. Vernon's a player and Martin's held his own. I'd easily take Tannehill over Weeden and Foles. On potential, the Miller pick can be put up against any of those except for Morris in that Shanny offense. Egnew is just a disaster. Hilton or Givens instead of wasting that pick on Egnew would have made a big difference.
     
  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Olivier Vernon looks to me like another run stopping OLB which isn't all that valuable in this league. Another backup who "can play in this league" but isn't really a play maker. Kheeston Randall looks like a solid backup but doesn't look like he has any more potential than that.

    Michael Egnew is a total question mark. As is Rishard Matthews.

    We will see on Jonathan Martin.

    B.J. Cunningham and Josh Kaddu are already on the outs.

    The class is going to come back to Ryan Tannehill. If he's successful it's a successful draft. If not, it's potentially a disastrous draft.
     
  13. Sirspud

    Sirspud Pro Bowler

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    Really? Because the guy has shown that its practically a non-issue and it's not something like lack of arm strength or mobility that truly limits what he can do.

    I don't see how anyone could look at Drew Brees and think that a guy who is playing successful QB in the NFL will fail eventually because of height.
     
  14. Birdmond

    Birdmond FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I call BS. If he is finding passing lanes now he will continue to find them. He is a baller. Get over it.
     
  15. rayfinkle5

    rayfinkle5 Starter

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    CK, anything to add about Miller and why they aren't using him much?
     
  16. dol-phan007

    dol-phan007 Money is Power

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    What about Charles Clay, he was drafted in the sixth round. Jimmy Wilson was drafted in the seventh round, Reshad Jones drafted in the fifth, Cameron Wake picked up from the Canadian laegue, Brian Hartline fourth round, Jorvorskie Lane not drafted. Believe me I am not on the Ireland bandwagon but for guys that you say he has missed on, he has also hit on a few also. Its easy to say we should have drafted Russle Wilson after the fact but if he would have drafted him with the 8th overall pick EVERYONE would have said fire him NOW. If you put some of those guys on this team this year their stats would not look the same, you can bet on that. Give it some time, this was one of our best draft classes in a long long time.
     
  17. Adam Strange

    Adam Strange Question Authority Finheaven VIP

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    Passing on T.Y. Hilton to pick up Egnew in the 3rd was a mistake. The offense would be much better with Hilton, both this season and into the future especially.
     
  18. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    Cunningham is gone, but Kaddu is on the Dolphins 53.
     
  19. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    You lost me on Vernon as a run stopper. He has flashed well as a pass rusher, as well as in coverage. Are we watching the same player?

    Agree on the jury being out on Egnew, and Martin. You left Miller out, who is gonna be a stud.
     
  20. EvilDylan

    EvilDylan A True Fan Donator

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    personally I don't think Miller is fully recovered from his shoulder injury. I don't think the coaches want to force him in there when he's not a hundred percent. I don't know if you've noticed but he has a huge wrap under his pads on his shoulder.
     
  21. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    VG point, and completely agree. That was the reason he fell to us. We shall see but, I could care less if he plays again this year IF it is because of giving his shoulder time to heal. He has shown us enough.

    I HATE the fact that we have very limited info on players injuries. We pick on players like Dansby and Fasano not knowing that they are playing hurt. That has to bother the hell out of players in seeing Phans taking shots at their play without knowing what they are dealing with.
     
  22. EvilDylan

    EvilDylan A True Fan Donator

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    That's why I'll never say a player sucks unless they do it on a yearly basis. You never know what they are dealing with. I've competed at a very high level of sports and sometimes I didn't perform my best. It wasn't because I sucked, it was just due to factors outside my control. Things happen.
     
  23. allsilverdreams

    allsilverdreams Starter Finheaven VIP Donator

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    i havent seen Vernon do anything in the last few games .has he been hurt or demoted.i really like this kid and it would be great to see a U player ball
     
  24. Pinkboy

    Pinkboy Banned Hammered

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    Wrong. It was because you sucked.
     
  25. iambanned

    iambanned Banned Hammered

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    The TD stat is misleading; the vast majority of our TD drives seem to end with runs into the endzone, which is kind-of a good thing because, in theory, it's a safer play. When you can run it in you somewhat punch a hole in the D's ego for a moment. Tanny could have, in all likelihood, about the same # of passing tds as INTS but we ran it in.
     
  26. silverfin

    silverfin FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    In all fairness Darrell Bevell has done a fantastic job in Seattle. Wilson is really benefiting from his play calling. Seattle also have a solid run game which certainly helps.
     
  27. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    I love the RT pick, and believe he is gonna be VG. We can make many reasons/excuses on why he only has 7 TD's, like the OL and surrounding talent, which is fair. However, I am a bit disappointed in his not making plays when he had the opportunity to do so. Hopefully, this will come next year or, maybe even in the next 4 games.
     
  28. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    tannehill and martin have been solid vernons got potential as a pass rusher but i don't know that he'll be consistent enough with it miller needs to be a major contributor next year and maybe win the starting job in camp or i'm gonna label that pick egnew well all i can say is thank god charles clay has developed his game this season otherwise we'd have nothing...kaddu looks like a career specials guy i see no every down lb upside there randall looks like a rotational dt and a last guy on the 53 i've seen nothing to think he has all that much upside going forward...

    pretty much a class of tannehill martin miller mathews and vernon showing as the only guys who's upside i'd be all that excited about...i bet miller has the staff pulling their hair out over how slow he's picked things up...

    i believe mathews can play in this league and i expect him to contribute in 2013...if not the last few weeks of this season
     
  29. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

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    That's what irked me. Even I can pick that one. I was posting in the draft forum when we took Egnew and bemoaned that we left TY Hilton on the board.

    Hilton was a sure thing. Egnew might develop but you've got to be careful about getting carried away with college tight ends who benefit from a favorable system. I've noted that for more than 30 years. College defenses simply don't cover the middle of the field in the 10-20 yard range. Very few exceptions, particularly outside the cream of the SEC. It's one of the glaring differences in college and pro football.

    That's one of the reasons I'm annoyed the Canes have neglected the tight end under Fisch, until late this season when Walford got some action. The Canes for more than two decades exploited the center field weakness in college football by running aggressive darts over the middle, off I formation play action. It felt like stealing then we got away from it.

    I've been wrong about plenty of college tight ends, beginning with Tony Hunter who I thought would be a potential Hall of Fame player. Not until I looked at some tapes of college center field alongside pro center field did I begin to doubt some of the fringe collegiate tight ends.
     
  30. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    There are 32 GM's, with hundreds of others helping them, who do this for a living for many a year who cannot say any player is a "sure thing." Can we be serious?
     

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