Our defense

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by rustydowell, Nov 27, 2013.

  1. rustydowell

    rustydowell Active Member

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    I look at our defense, and at every position, why isn't this group dominating offenses?
     
  2. MartinTheSNAKE

    MartinTheSNAKE Seasoned Veteran Donator

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    Because we cant stop the run. Our linebackers are a weak spot.
     
  3. rustydowell

    rustydowell Active Member

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    So you are saying all of our line backers are no good, all three.
     
  4. gofins60

    gofins60 A True Fan

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    Miami was able to stop the run before, and then Coyle changed the Front 7 scheme and Ireland swapped out two LBs. Now, they struggle against the run. The same thing happened on offense; Philbin and Sherman changed the blocking schemes, and Ireland went with Miller over Bush. And again, now the o-line is bad and there is no running game. This is why I don't like Philbin and his offensive and defensive schemes. If the pre-Philbin team had received upgrades at certain positions, they would be a lot better than this current team.

    I understand that bringing in a new offense/defense requires time to replace all of the players with skillsets that don't fit the new system, but this will takes YEARS. I don't want to wait 4 or 5 more years to see results. This regime has had two years, and all they can do is look good for maybe 30 minutes per game since they can't make adjustments in the second half. Why give them any more time? Am I the only one who thinks that Philbin and company are bad for this team? They're not improving with time and additional talent; they're regressing!
     
  5. TannehillRules

    TannehillRules Banned Hammered

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    Because players like randy starks are getting old, our lbs arent good and chris clemmons sucks.More good players wasted just like jason taylor,pat surtain,zach thomas, etc.
     
  6. MartinTheSNAKE

    MartinTheSNAKE Seasoned Veteran Donator

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    Im saying Wheeler is bad. Ellerbe has underperformed, and Koa Misi isnt good.

    So basically... yes.
     
  7. MiZFiT

    MiZFiT FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    If you think Misi isn't good you're misinformed. He's not flashy but playing the strong side the backer rarely is. He is very good at what he does. Especially in comparison to wheeler.
     
  8. Ruckus45

    Ruckus45 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Or D isn't playing with a lead as much as they need to be. They are a really good squad and playing well, but playing from behind causes more risks to be taken to try to get off the field.

    In Pts allowed per game, the only thing that really matters, we are tenth. The Ds above us are

    Carolina
    KC
    Seattle
    San Fran
    NO
    Cincy
    Baltimore
    AZ
    New England

    Pretty solid company. Amazingly they are doing this is done with spending the 4th most amount of time on the field.

    Don't freak about our D....they are playing well. Freak about our run game and 2nd half scoring.
     
  9. WVDolphan

    WVDolphan Banned Hammered

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    I wonder how much higher on that list our D would be if [STRIKE]Tannehill[/STRIKE].... I mean our offense, didnt turn the ball over so much. I wonder what the average amount of turnovers on offense the teams ahead of us on this list have as compared to what ours is.

    This is one of the best defenses in the league. They could be better at stopping the run, but all in all its a solid group. Too bad our offense is one of the worst in the league. We could be a legit championship contender if we had a good[STRIKE] QB[/STRIKE].... I mean good offense.
     
  10. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    Misi as strong is a solid 2 down backer ellerbe is get by able at mike with a better wolb next to him...wheeler is awful

    This d would be getting people off the field more if the damn lb play vs the run especially the clean to the ball flow laterally and fill wolb wasn't such a disaster...

    Either your mike or your wolb needs to have solid instincts...wheelers are as bad as gets unless you insert our depth at the position
     
  11. JJM_7

    JJM_7 A True Fan

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    The reality is we haven't been able to finish games on offense this year, but we have finished some games on defense, so that's good. Our run defense has been terrible at times though, so that is a concern, definitely. And we've given up too many 3rd and longs. That's also been frustrating.

    Obviously our defense is not perfect, but the main problem this year has been on the offensive side. We'd probably be 7-4 or better if our offense could finish games this season. You score more points in the second half after gaining a lead in the first, and you win those games. Unfortunately, we haven't.
     
  12. MiamiDolphin618

    MiamiDolphin618 A True Fan

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    LB is probably just as much of a pressing need as OT at this point. Its awful watching these guys.

    The defense has been solid. My problems with the D so far has been:
    1. Underutilize Jordan. He played more last week so hoping thats a good sign...he can play
    2. Terrible LB play- Thus we cant get off the field on 3rd and long
    3. Patterson cant stay healthy and while other guys have played okay at times...its a big drop off
    4. Run D hasnt been dominant

    My biggest complaint is probably the issue with how out of sync our O and D are. Offense scores Defense gives points right back. Defense gets a stop then the offense can't score. We can never get ANY momentum which is why so many of our games are so close at the end.
     
  13. DANTODUPER

    DANTODUPER Scout Team

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    Ellerbe is not the problem, Wheeler, Misi, Clemons, Starks and Soliai are. Hopefully we let both (Starks and Soliai go next year) and substitute them with cheaper same quality players until we hit one solid DT on the draft. I believe on Ofense we only need a power running back and a good RT. But on defense we need lots of help; SS, 2OLB, 2DT and a healthy CB.
     
  14. vagrantprodigy

    vagrantprodigy A True Fan

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    Our LB's are in large part the reason we are struggling vs the run. Misi is ok. Ellerbe has been below average, but may be salvagable. If we benched Wheeler tomorrow, and had Jordan and Jenkins split time at his position, I don't think we'd be any worse, and would possibly be better. You have to keep in mind that we wanted blitzing linebackers, and as a result, we've sacrificed instincts, coverage ability, and tackling.

    The idea behind making the switch was that it would help against Brady, and maybe it does. But it hurts us in too many other games.

    The other big issue we've got is in the secondary. Our draft picks aren't playing at corner, and so we've got Carroll on the field, when he really should be a dime back/ST only. Jones is under performing, and Clemons is the average complimentary player we though he was.
     
  15. Atila

    Atila Atila - the freshmaker. Finheaven VIP

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    This thread is so off base... our defense has been pretty damn solid this season. We are CONSTANTLY playing from behind and CONSTANTLY having to attack on the defensive side of the ball. Imagine if we even had 1-2 games where our offense was getting a nice lead and the defense was allowed to pin their ears back?

    Every single game we are putting pressure on our D to have to make a big stop instead of getting anything done on offense. Just look at last week... in the first half the defense set up our offense on Carolina's side of the 50 THREE times... and we got 6 total points from it... that game shouldn't have come down to the final drive, our defense had given up 13 points all game AND put our offense in a position to score a lot of points...

    This defense has been causing turnovers, been great against the pass, and strong up front. If we had even an average offense, you'd see how much better our defense would look.
     
  16. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko, El Bravo 47 - the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

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    I seem to recall that CK immediately flagged his concerns re Wheeler's coverage skills, upon his top $ signing as a free agent. After 11 games, we look perplexed and hope that he will get better, but this looks like a major preventable bust. Ireland had some FA wins in Grimes and Gibson, but he should be accountable for the expensive busts as well. It would be interesting to know how much Philbin/Coyle were involved in stating what they wanted from the LBs. If they lobbied hard for blitzing LBs like Wheeler, Ireland may have a scapegoat, that he was trying to get what the Defensive Coordinator said he needed. At any rate, if CK knew they likely issue, Ireland should have known it as well.

    BTW - we agree to disagree re Koa Misi. I see a player who has steadily improved. I don't think he's a problem.
     
  17. NorthernFin

    NorthernFin Scout Team

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    Seriously ???? Let both go? We have two interior lineman that 85% of the league would kill for, and you think we should let them go. These guys are not the problem, they are studs. They are starting to get up there in years, but probably have two to three years left. Guys like this do not "grow on trees". They don't get the big stat lines, but we have two of the better ones in the league.
     
  18. Atila

    Atila Atila - the freshmaker. Finheaven VIP

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    It's post like this and the OP that remind me that most people don't have a clue about what they see on the field.
     
  19. Buddy

    Buddy Right Wing Nut Job Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    I would have to agree with you pretty much entirely. Good post.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
     
  20. cullenbigcstill

    cullenbigcstill FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    This defense would be close to elite if the offense could sustain a drive. The D gets worn out from being on the field and in the second half we get ran on bad.

    Wheeler is terrible but we don't have anyone who's better. Those of you who don't see Misi as a strong LBer need to reevaluate that or need to educate yourself. He's not a quick twitch athlete, but he is strong, very good tackler, sheds blocks, can read and react.

    If the offense could sustain drives in the second half, the defense would be capable if performing into the fourth quarter. Our red zone defense has been putrid because of this as well as 4 th quarter defense. Have we stopped any game winning drives in the last month?
     
  21. cullenbigcstill

    cullenbigcstill FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    First 3 quarters the defense have been physical and fierce. There have been a few games where they were capable of performing through the game. This defense is very good our poor offense had held us back, yet again, causing this unit to be stuck on an underachieving unit as a whole yet again. Sustain drives and score TDs this team is an 8 or 9 win team at this moment with how great that defense is.

    I'd take another Misi or Burnett over Wheeler any day and twice on Sundays!
     
  22. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    FWIW, I watched Burnett yesterday vs Dallas. He was good vs the run, no pass rush, was thrown at 3 times for 3 completions, 30 yds, 20 YAC and 2 missed tackles. For the year, Wheeler is better in coverage and pass rush but worse vs the run. Wheeler has 16 missed tackles, Burnett has 15 with one more game. The same was true last season.

    NOT saying that Wheeler is playing well at all but, we got what we made the move for in what they each do better than the other. Also there are not many good 4-3 OLB out there. I do expect to see improvement next year to where Wheeler was in Oakland, which was better than what he has shown us. JMO
     
  23. vagrantprodigy

    vagrantprodigy A True Fan

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    Don't forget that Burnett has 2.5 sacks, Wheeler has .5. Burnett has 3 FF, Wheeler has 0.
     
  24. Patrick_Bateman

    Patrick_Bateman Rookie

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    I think he's saying we cut our two best LBs and clearly downgraded them with FA acquisitions.
     
  25. Phinsfan93

    Phinsfan93 A True Fan

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    Anybody else thinks Jenkins is better than Wheeler/Ellerbe?

    He looked better imo with the little playing time they gave him.
     
  26. Travis34

    Travis34 chea Finheaven VIP Donator

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    What a joke of a post
     
  27. artdnj

    artdnj Time is Now Finheaven VIP

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    If we let both of them go we will be screwed in 2014. Btw, who's playing on the OL if we get 6 new guys on D.
     
  28. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Not even remotely close.
     
  29. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Burnett has 3 sacks, 3 hits, and 12 hurries, ranked #12 on pass rush. Wheeler has 1-4 and 17, ranked #3. Last year, Burnett had 2-6 and 7, ranked #8, Wheeler had 3- 14 and 13, ranked #2. PFF does not give half sacks.

    Also interesting to note is that in the first 4 games Gave up 22 catches of 26 throws for 239 yards and 2 TD's. In the last 7 games, he gave up 14 of 21 for 115 yards and 0 TD's. In addition, he had 6 missed tackles in game #3. He has improved.
     
  30. Ruckus45

    Ruckus45 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    No, but I like his athleticism and upside. I like it when they bring him in on obvious passing situations, although that's rare.
     
  31. MartinTheSNAKE

    MartinTheSNAKE Seasoned Veteran Donator

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    Misi is what he is. He is an OK player who is a pretty good tackler. Hes not Bad (like Wheeler) And isnt good Either. He is just OK. Hes not the problem, but he also isnt replaceable by any means. I dont mind him on a cheap deal. I actually said i think we should switch him to MLB because i think he is a much better tackler and has better instincts.
     
  32. HoneyB

    HoneyB A True Fan

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    Well, they'll likely get another year. Then if nothing happens, they'll be canned. I agree that there's been a lot of swapping out of players with no results. It's embarrassing that we can't get even a couple of yards on some plays, and on the defensive side of the ball teams run right up our gut and we can't stop them. We always did before.

    But I'm not concerned about the defense. The offense isn't pulling their weight. The D gets turnovers, gives them the ball in great field position and we do nothing with it, we punt or maybe get a FG. Can you imagine how discouraging that has to be, for them?
     
  33. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase

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    Our defense is good, but they would be better if our offense could consistently stay on the field and score points..
     
  34. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    This is just another point that shows the flaw in the way PFF grades. They seem to place equal emphasis on a sack and a hurry and no they are not the same. A sack kills the play and creates a loss, alot of things can happen on a hurry or even a hit but a sack is almost always much better.
     
  35. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Their pass rush grades are not based on sacks, hits, or hurries. They are based on what each player does on every play. A sack is only one play receiving a high grade. A hurry is another receiving a different grade. Then there is a missed tackle getting a negative grade or being blocked getting a different grade.
     
  36. vagrantprodigy

    vagrantprodigy A True Fan

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    Generally I like PFF's stats, but I think they are overvalueing what Wheeler does. He gets hurries so much because we blitz him alot, and when he gets pressure, other guys are usually applying pressure at the same time.
     

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