Our Talent Laden Dolphin teams of the past

[MDFINFAN]

4 years.

I've read numberous posts on how talented our teams have been under Wanny. I've read how they've been coached to under achieve. I've read how it's the coaches fault they can't be the talented them they are. I've read we're too conservative and too predictable and that's why we can't make it over the hump. I've read that it's Fielder's fault. We can't get to the big one with him at QB. We get excited over a skilled player we acquirer and that's the answer to woes. We get mad when we don't get a targeted player. We hindsight everyone, after June when other QB's were avaiable, people jumped on the bandwagon we acted too fast to get AJ..In March eveyone was in love with AJ...then mini camps.

I now look back at our teams the last 4 years and with hindsight realize we were as talented as people thought. I asked a question on one thread that asked how how many pro bowl offensive players have we had since Wanny's been Head coach. The same defensive players go to the pro bowl, even Brock and you guys know he did nothing last year that should have gotten him to the pro bowl.

Our D in 2002 had 2 opportunities to get us to the playoffs, actually 3 when you throw in the buffalo game where Ricky ran for 200 yards. If the D is good as you guys think, why didn't we get to the playoffs that year. We had a 21-7 half time lead on Buf. In Minn..the O played great and NE.

Last year the OL completely went south, I don't know how we got to 10 wins and don't tell me D..philly, Tenn, Houston, and Washington games come to mind. If a starting player gets hurt the last few years, we completely nose drive at that position. Especially QB, MLB, CB, WR, and OL.

Actually since 2002, Jay has only been avg. The first 6 games of 2002 he was playing great football..then injury and he finish that year pretty good except for the missed pass to Knight. Our WR play has only been marginal, no 1000 yard receiver, partly Jay, partly the WR's. Back to no depth, ie, starter goes out, team takes a beating, no depth, that my friends is not a talent laden team. A talent team as I stated before can't lose a starter and keep on ticking because it has quality depth. this year's team is the first in 4 years I've seen that may have some depth, but we still have questionable starters on D and of course the OL, the QB position, while our WR's seem good on paper, they haven't done a thing on the field yet to warrant such high escolates as been thrusted upon them....We have a team in the making through which good coaching and preparation has kept them in ball games and winning.

Some say we have JJ d personel to thank, we only have 4 from his time for the last 2 years. This is Wanny's D. and they're still growing. We have not been the team some think. This year's team is the first I've seen with real potential, the only question I have is OL, can they get it done. I really feel the skill positions will play good, given the chance. But again, we have not had talented teams, that's why we couldn't be aggressive, the personnel just wasn't there to pull it off. We may be able to play aggressive this year and have backup if someone goes down, please don't be a LB, then again, we may have some gems in Jenkins, Moore, Abyandua, and Bua, only time will tell..we're still short in the WR spot too. I actually think Henry can take Ricky's spot and we don't miss a beat. Well my semi rant is over.

 

[VJ1252]

The 2002 team was the most talented of Wanny's tenure and probably the most balanced team we have had in a long time. On D we had the sack leader, Surtain had a great year too, and Marion had 5 picks in his last good season with the dolphins. A pro bowl RB in Ricky, Nails would have been a pro bowler had he not gotten hurt, and Fiedler had his best season as a phin with an 85.2 QB rating.

I think the LB spot could be real trouble this year if Zach gets hurt. I think its asking a lot of Eddie Moore to take his spot if he gets hurt. Another spot that worries me is DT because if Chester or TimBo goes down Zgoniani will start and I dont know if he is big enough to keep blockers off Zach.

 

[Y-TownPhinVet]

Good post :) Good (semi rant) as well. Your thoughts are correct in my book as far as Wanny goes. If he wasn't a good coach, the Fins might have been 8-8 or less last year. I see (from a fantasy standpoint as well) alot of improvement on offense, and the defense might be what Wanny says "the best in franchise history". I hope he's right. Heck, hope your right too! :D

 

[BSQX4]

If Rickey goes down and Leonard Henry comes in we miss a very BIG beat. Trust me on that one.

 

[BlueFin]

4 years.

I've read numberous posts on how talented our teams have been under Wanny. I've read how they've been coached to under achieve. I've read how it's the coaches fault they can't be the talented them they are. I've read we're too conservative and too predictable and that's why we can't make it over the hump. I've read that it's Fielder's fault. We can't get to the big one with him at QB. We get excited over a skilled player we acquirer and that's the answer to woes. We get mad when we don't get a targeted player. We hindsight everyone, after June when other QB's were avaiable, people jumped on the bandwagon we acted too fast to get AJ..In March eveyone was in love with AJ...then mini camps.

I now look back at our teams the last 4 years and with hindsight realize we were as talented as people thought. I asked a question on one thread that asked how how many pro bowl offensive players have we had since Wanny's been Head coach. The same defensive players go to the pro bowl, even Brock and you guys know he did nothing last year that should have gotten him to the pro bowl.

Our D in 2002 had 2 opportunities to get us to the playoffs, actually 3 when you throw in the buffalo game where Ricky ran for 200 yards. If the D is good as you guys think, why didn't we get to the playoffs that year. We had a 21-7 half time lead on Buf. In Minn..the O played great and NE.

Last year the OL completely went south, I don't know how we got to 10 wins and don't tell me D..philly, Tenn, Houston, and Washington games come to mind. If a starting player gets hurt the last few years, we completely nose drive at that position. Especially QB, MLB, CB, WR, and OL.

Actually since 2002, Jay has only been avg. The first 6 games of 2002 he was playing great football..then injury and he finish that year pretty good except for the missed pass to Knight. Our WR play has only been marginal, no 1000 yard receiver, partly Jay, partly the WR's. Back to no depth, ie, starter goes out, team takes a beating, no depth, that my friends is not a talent laden team. A talent team as I stated before can't lose a starter and keep on ticking because it has quality depth. this year's team is the first in 4 years I've seen that may have some depth, but we still have questionable starters on D and of course the OL, the QB position, while our WR's seem good on paper, they haven't done a thing on the field yet to warrant such high escolates as been thrusted upon them....We have a team in the making through which good coaching and preparation has kept them in ball games and winning.

Some say we have JJ d personel to thank, we only have 4 from his time for the last 2 years. This is Wanny's D. and they're still growing. We have not been the team some think. This year's team is the first I've seen with real potential, the only question I have is OL, can they get it done. I really feel the skill positions will play good, given the chance. But again, we have not had talented teams, that's why we couldn't be aggressive, the personnel just wasn't there to pull it off. We may be able to play aggressive this year and have backup if someone goes down, please don't be a LB, then again, we may have some gems in Jenkins, Moore, Abyandua, and Bua, only time will tell..we're still short in the WR spot too. I actually think Henry can take Ricky's spot and we don't miss a beat. Well my semi rant is over.

What was it, 7 or 8 Pro Bowlers in 2002(including alternates)?

"Actually since 2002, Jay has only been avg. The first 6 games of 2002 he was playing great football.."

No, Sorry, Jay has never played consistently great foorball, great football is what Warner did in 1999 for example, Jay was good /avg in the first six games of 2002, since then he has been below avg.

"Last year the OL completely went south, I don't know how we got to 10 wins and don't tell me D."

The D, only a person ignorant to football would not realize the defense for the most part kept us in the games with those 9 teams that finished 6-10 or worse allowing us to overcome those powerhouses.

"Our D in 2002 had 2 opportunities to get us to the playoffs, actually 3 when you throw in the buffalo game where Ricky ran for 200 yards. If the D is good as you guys think, why didn't we get to the playoffs that year. We had a 21-7 half time lead on Buf. In Minn..the O played great and NE."

Perception is a funny thing, in Minnesota we faced a team with a high powered offense(ranked 2nd in the league) and a weak defense, one would expect by the rankings that Minn. will not get shut out by our Defense, especially at home, that they will probably score a few points.....they scored 20, the task of our offense was to score at least 21, against the 27th ranked defense in the league...they could only score 17, they squandered all of the second quarter and part of the first with drives ending in like this......punt, punt, interception, fumble.

EDIT: By the way, the 20 points our defense allowed in Minnesota to that 2nd ranked offense was the 2nd lowest total any defense allowed that year to Minnesota in Minnesota, meanwhile, our Offense posted the second lowest points scored of any team against Minnesota's 27th ranked defense in Minnesota, seems clear to me where the majority of blame is due.

At New England the next week, in the most important game of the year, with everything on the line in the second half, yes our defense gave up a few points, so did both Superbowl teams last year, some games the offenses score some points, when that happens you expect you offense to rise up and stay in the game, what type of second half did Jay Fiedler turn in? 4-13 for 24 yards? Are you kidding me? This guy still has a job in the NFL?

"Some say we have JJ d personel to thank, we only have 4 from his time for the last 2 years. This is Wanny's D. and they're still growing. We have not been the team some think. "

Ahem, lets at least try to be accurate, Zach, JT, Surtain, Madison, and Brock Marion were all here the last two years, throw in one(Bowens) from Shula and thats six that have been here the last several years that are not Wanny's. With the lone exception of Ogun last year all the Pro Bowls have come from this group drafted or brought here by Jimmy and Shula, the remaining players brought here by Wannstedt other than Ogun have to varying degrees been disapointments........Morlon Greenwood? please...Arturo Freeman?disapointment...Larry Chester? Way overweight last year, were not talking about Pro Bowlers here......if were gonna be honest with ourselves we have to admit the core and backbone of this defense is the Pro Bowl talent Wannstedt inherited.

 

[MDFINFAN]

What was it, 7 or 8 Pro Bowlers in 2002(including alternates)?

All D, the same one that' wouldn't stop Buff 2nd half, couldn't stop Minn on 4th and 3, and couldn't make a 11 point lead last for less than 5 minutes..Only 1 O pro bowler, and nails may have been a pro bowler, that's speculation by us and some media.

"Actually since 2002, Jay has only been avg. The first 6 games of 2002 he was playing great football.."

No, Sorry, Jay has never played consistently great foorball, great football is what Warner did in 1999 for example, Jay was good /avg in the first six games of 2002, since then he has been below avg.

He was playing great imho, even so that we were avg more than 20 points and we undefeated.

"Last year the OL completely went south, I don't know how we got to 10 wins and don't tell me D."

The D, only a person ignorant to football would not realize the defense for the most part kept us in the games with those 9 teams that finished 6-10 or worse allowing us to overcome those powerhouses.

I may be ignorant to football, :D But I know a great D would have won 1 or 2 more games if they were all that. I've seen great D's over my time, the phins D are no great d, but they are good. If it wasn't for the O, we would have lost to Washington, He lost to Houston, great D there, Tenn, umm, we do agree, our D has more talent than our O.

"Our D in 2002 had 2 opportunities to get us to the playoffs, actually 3 when you throw in the buffalo game where Ricky ran for 200 yards. If the D is good as you guys think, why didn't we get to the playoffs that year. We had a 21-7 half time lead on Buf. In Minn..the O played great and NE."

Perception is a funny thing, in Minnesota we faced a team with a high powered offense(ranked 2nd in the league) and a weak defense, one would expect by the rankings that Minn. will not get shut out by our Defense, especially at home, that they will probably score a few points.....they scored 20, the task of our offense was to score at least 21, against the 27th ranked defense in the league...they could only score 17, they squandered all of the second quarter and part of the first with drives ending in like this......punt, punt, interception, fumble.

Our O was barely on the field in the Minn game in the 2nd half, Cris dropped a TD, the O didn't get stopped the 2nd half until it stopped itself with chris dropping the TD, it just didn't get opportunties because the D couldn't get off the field. Good come back if you talk about the 1st half only, but it's complete game that makes it a game.

At New England the next week, in the most important game of the year, with everything on the line in the second half, yes our defense gave up a few points, so did both Superbowl teams last year, some games the offenses score some points, when that happens you expect you offense to rise up and stay in the game, what type of second half did Jay Fiedler turn in? 4-13 for 24 yards? Are you kidding me? This guy still has a job in the NFL?
No, we're talking about your great D, not sb teams, and your D could stop a 11 point comeback with less than 5 minuter left. Period


"Some say we have JJ d personel to thank, we only have 4 from his time for the last 2 years. This is Wanny's D. and they're still growing. We have not been the team some think. "

Ahem, lets at least try to be accurate, Zach, JT, Surtain, Madison, and Brock Marion were all here the last two years, throw in one(Bowens) from Shula and thats six that have been here the last several years that are not Wanny's. With the lone exception of Ogun last year all the Pro Bowls have come from this group drafted or brought here by Jimmy and Shula, the remaining players brought here by Wannstedt other than Ogun have to varying degrees been disapointments........Morlon Greenwood? please...Arturo Freeman?disapointment...Larry Chester? Way overweight last year, were not talking about Pro Bowlers here......if were gonna be honest with ourselves we have to admit the core and backbone of this defense is the Pro Bowl talent Wannstedt inherited.

Okay 5 for jj, and 5 for wanny, 1 for shula, JJ's people have been here the longest and get more recognition even when they something don't deserve, I can't remember the last time IN A BIG GAME, they rose and made a play that got us the win. Greenwood played his best ball last year, Chester was defintely part of a DL, 1 jj, 1 shula's, 2 Wanny's, with Wanny's making the pro bowl, that shut down the run, no 100 yard rushers. And where does everything start for both the O and D, in the trenches, Wanny had 2 there. This is Wanny's D. This year it's 6 for Wanny, 4 for JJ, 1 for shula, and now the proclamation that it might be the best in franchise is made..and you agree. The Depth is all Wanny and now Rick's, if they're talent laden it will be because of Wanny and Rick..

 

[BlueFin]

I may be ignorant to football, :D But I know a great D would have won 1 or 2 more games if they were all that. I've seen great D's over my time, the phins D are no great d, but they are good. If it wasn't for the O, we would have lost to Washington, He lost to Houston, great D there, Tenn, umm, we do agree, our D has more talent than our O.

Never said this was a great defense, I've said it has been consistently a top 5, top 10 defense that has primarily been responsible for the 40 wins in the last four years, certainly the D has had bad games, most do, but I could also point out the second New England game where the D allowed only 3 points to the champs and the offense was shutout, to make matters worse the Offense gave up 9 points to the Pats defense.


Our O was barely on the field in the Minn game in the 2nd half, Cris dropped a TD, the O didn't get stopped the 2nd half until it stopped itself with chris dropping the TD, it just didn't get opportunties because the D couldn't get off the field. Good come back if you talk about the 1st half only, but it's complete game that makes it a game.

Exactly, and taken as an entire game, we held Minnesota's 2nd ranked offense to the second lowest total of any Defense all year in Minnesota, where our offense squandered to many early chances and posted the second lowest point total of any offense against Minnesota's 27th ranked defense in minnesota, its the complete game that makes it a game.



Okay 5 for jj, and 5 for wanny, 1 for shula, JJ's people have been here the longest and get more recognition even when they something don't deserve, I can't remember the last time IN A BIG GAME, they rose and made a play that got us the win. Greenwood played his best ball last year, Chester was defintely part of a DL, 1 jj, 1 shula's, 2 Wanny's, with Wanny's making the pro bowl, that shut down the run, no 100 yard rushers. And where does everything start for both the O and D, in the trenches, Wanny had 2 there. This is Wanny's D. This year it's 6 for Wanny, 4 for JJ, 1 for shula, and now the proclamation that it might be the best in franchise is made..and you agree. The Depth is all Wanny and now Rick's, if they're talent laden it will be because of Wanny and Rick..

Are you denying that Jason Taylor doesn't consistently apply the most pressure to opposing quarterbacks?, and has for several years, despite a two sack difference between him and Ogun JT faced the left tackle(normally a superior blocker to the right tackle) and faced more double teams. Are you denying that Bowens hasn't been the best tackle and run stopper we've had for years?Are you denying that Zach has not been the heart of this defense and primary tackler? Is there not a major difference when Zach is out injured? Are you denying that Surtain and Madison providing the coverage they do has been one of the primary strengths of this defense and allowed extra sacks? Any proclamation by Wanny about how good this defense will be is purely speculation and coming from the lips of Wanny must be taken with a grain of salt considering his past proclamations.
One of the biggest weaknesses of this defense has been its safety play, which Wanny has yet to improve upon in four years.

 

[MDFINFAN]

Bluefin, I could come and answer your opinions with my own, but we would go forever, can we agree to disagree, I just don't think we were as talented as you think, if we lose a starter we were in trouble, My thing is a talented team has depth, ie. NE last year, lost starters and kept on ticking, if we lost that many starters the last couple of years, we wouldn't have won as many games. I think we may have stacked up enough potential talent this year to get us though any major bumps with injuries. I'm still concern with the LB spot and OL depth,,of course I'm also concern about the starting Right side of the OL...and even Wade Smith. I can't for the life of me say we're home clear with our O right now, and I for one don't expect a SB this year, But if the we gel and can play around our potential weaknesses we may have a chance. If the changes work out and I'm hoping they do, this team could be special. It's a young team, wow, isn't that great to say after everyone has been talking about how old some of the D players are and we need to win before they leave. Other than Seau, Zach is the next oldest at 30, boy do we have a old D. LOL..any way if not this year, I think next for year. It all depends on our OL, if they play great and we score a lot, we won't have to rely on a nonplaying, when it counts, D to bail us out.