Over the last 5 years, Dolphins ranked number 2 in drafting.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Wildbill3, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    Well this should be a fun conversation.

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Whos-been-doing-the-best-job-of-drafting.html

     
  2. Anvil35

    Anvil35 Leave Users Titles Alone!! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I guess this puts a monkey wrench in the narrative of most of the fire Ireland experts here...I have always stated that Ireland has drafted well when it was HIS drafts. This more than proves it. Now those good drafts must turn into wins over the course of next two - three years...
     
  3. Crazysimon

    Crazysimon Scout Team

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    Misleading. Just because a player starts doesn't make him good. It's not successful unless you're winning games.
     
  4. Locke

    Locke They looked like strong hands.

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    :snack:
     
  5. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    misleading statement is misleading. Are you actually trying to shoot this down by penalizing Ireland/parcells for drafting guys who did start for us? Isn't that the whole point of the draft is to draft players who can start for you?
     
  6. Locke

    Locke They looked like strong hands.

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    Seriously? Is this a real post? Starting for an NFL team, something only 264 people per year in the entire world get to say, doesn't make him good? Rationality has left this forum...
     
  7. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    more like objectivity. but who's reasoning?
     
  8. Crazysimon

    Crazysimon Scout Team

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    I'm not penelazing them for drafting players... I'm penelazing them for not winning games. Shouldn't the 2nd best drafting team win games?

    ---------- Post added at 06:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:24 PM ----------

    No it's a figment of your imagination.
     
  9. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    I don't know. who was our head coaches during the last five years?
     
  10. Crazysimon

    Crazysimon Scout Team

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    Tony Sparano
     
  11. Locke

    Locke They looked like strong hands.

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    Not when you don't draft a QB. It doesn't matter what the rest of your team looks like if you don't draft the right positions. It doesn't matter how good Ireland is at finding linemen and linebackers, running backs, and whatever else he drafted. He is obviously a damn good talent evaluator. If you came to this thread and said, "it doesn't matter because he is drafting the wrong positions", I could respect your opinion. But no, you said this nonsense about "just because they start doesn't make them good." That's weak. You don't like Ireland and you can't be objective. It's as simple as that.

    And that isn't me defending Ireland. The guy can spot talent, but he seems to have no idea what positions to draft for the modern NFL. He didn't grab a QB for 4 years, and that was pretty much because Ross mandated it. He seems to undervalue drafting playmakers. That doesn't mean he can't spot them, because we don't know if he can or not. That means for whatever *** backwards reason, he values the trenches and front 7 more than other positions. Maybe having Philbin and Sherman in the mix can help straighten him out, who knows. But whining about Ireland in every thread like a little girl on her first period is beyond obnoxious at this point...
     
  12. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    you can buy the best ingredients in the world, but if your chef can't cook, it's going to taste like ****.
     
  13. foozool13

    foozool13 #12 #13 #23 #29 #54 #99 Donator

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    The NFL has and always will be a coaches league. Talent matters yes, but is a coaches league. When you have 50 moving parts, its more than players. Scheme's and game planning are CRITICAL.
     
  14. dolfin530

    dolfin530 Student of the Game

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    The drafts were good when you think about it. We just haven't drafted players that will win games like QB or a dynamic play maker. This all won't matter after FA and the draft. We have a chance to erase the woes of the past with this off season.
     
  15. DeathStar

    DeathStar Hall Of Famer

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    What a flawed study. Not taking into accounts wins.

    The top 5 of this terrible study...Chiefs, Dolphins, Cardinals, Browns, Eagles...

    All 5 have sucked in the winning department.

    Chiefs got the number 1 in the draft this upcoming April...

    LOL.

    If you suck, chances are you are going to have a lot of turnover and replace veterans with cheap draft picks...As you continue to suck, more draft picks will play as the existing veterans get booted...And check out the top 5...Teams that still stink, which means the draft picks aren't any good.

    So they start alot of games, but suck...Hooray!
     
  16. DeathStar

    DeathStar Hall Of Famer

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    Ravens are 21st and 49ers are 24th...Teams that don't need to start draft picks as their veterans are ok..So this crappy study says they suck at drafting?

    I'm sorry, this is the worst thing I've seen since that bogus QBR thing ESPN still tries to push on us.
     
  17. Crazysimon

    Crazysimon Scout Team

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    Chiefs being number is all I need to see to know it has no merit.
     
  18. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase

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    Question answered. Reason why we have and had failing players. Dude was horrible.
     
  19. rvz1020

    rvz1020 Well-Known Member

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    You are 100% right We could start the worst players at every position and just because Ireland drafted them and they are starting doesn't make him a good gm. If your draft picks start and u win then this would be true. They can start a high school caliber team for 5 yrs what does that prove? It proves we don't know what good talent is
     
  20. Austin Tatious

    Austin Tatious Starter

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    I remand the study back to the National Football Post to re-do it and take out the fallacies. It's easier for a draftee to start on a bad team because the bad team does not have good veterans and because to some degree the bad team is willing to go with youth to develop. The Dolphins have started a number of guys since Jeff Ireland began as the GM who picked up starts but really set the franchise back because we blew the opportunity cost to develop a much better player.

    In their re-do, National Football Post should create a weighted average factoring in wins, pro bowl appearances by the draftees, and whether the players signed a new contract after the rookie deal expired. If you keep turning around the players you drafted, you are not doing a good job drafting players who fit your program, or you are changing your program haphazardly. In baseball, they use "quality starts" for pitchers (6 + innings, 3 or less earned runs). Something like that could be added if they wanted to do a serious study, not the amateurish drivel they threw out for public consumption.

    I am willing to go along with the fact that I think Ireland will do fine this off-season. The Dolphins' big problems are easily solved this offseason, and Ireland has smarter coaches who can identify talent better than the last idiot. But let's not pretend that Miami has been the second best drafting team the past 5 years. That's blatantly false. The Dolphins have largely drafted players who sucked (Merling, Henne, P Turner, P White, Murphy, Egnew, Gates et al) or were not or likely will not be retained past their rookie deals (Langford, Long, Davis, S Smith, Hartline). How many of the draftees the past 5 years have been in the Pro Bowl? Long? How many wins did they account for? How many got a second contract?

    In all the real measures for success of draftees, Miami has failed miserably. Now, will it get corrected this offseason? I say yes. It would be darn near impossible not to. Not when there is plenty of talent at the positions Miami needs.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2013
  21. SkapePhin

    SkapePhin Rump Shaker Finheaven VIP Donator

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  22. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    LOLOL @ You getting no thanked for this post.

    Some people are comical around here.
     
  23. ThrowDaTD

    ThrowDaTD Rookie

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    Drafted players can become starters by default because of lack of better options in front of them.
     
  24. UCF Nation

    UCF Nation Well-Known Member

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    Well, now.
     
  25. tylerdolphin

    tylerdolphin More Smug than Birthday Dog Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    Five years of being the #2 drafting team in football and yet we havent made the playoff since 08. Color me skeptical.

    We havent been awful, but even the biggest homer has to know that article is a tad misleading.
     
  26. SkapePhin

    SkapePhin Rump Shaker Finheaven VIP Donator

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    You can have a lambo sitting in your driveway, but if you don't have an engine to drive it off the lot, its worthless. A QB is the engine...

    Let's hope that our new engine is supercharged.
     
  27. Twitches Brew

    Twitches Brew A True Fan

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    Why was this study even published? I don't care if they did the research; when the results make so little sense (KC, MIA, AZ, CLE, PHI), don't make it public. The criteria is badly flawed.
     
  28. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Yeah, I don't buy it.

    San Francisco 49ers. Go look at their draft classes.

    I'll take what they have.

    Thanks.
     
  29. SuperMarksBros.

    SuperMarksBros. Formerly Fiedler for MVP

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    No room for logic here. I mean, studs like Chris Clemons, Chad Henne, Brian Hartline, and Koa Misi would start on every NFL team, wouldn't they?
     
  30. SkapePhin

    SkapePhin Rump Shaker Finheaven VIP Donator

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    You know what the data tells me? It's ALL about the QB. Take the Chiefs for instance, they have 6 Pro Bowlers, but the #1 overall pick? Why? Because their QB was garbage. If you put Russel Wilson on that team in 2012, that same team is in the playoffs.

    The reason the top 5 best drafting teams over the past 5 years all have poor records is because they failed at drafting the MOST IMPORTANT position. Put a good QB on those squads, and they are instant playoff teams.

    EDIT:

    That being said, I also think that coaching does play a part in it, as evidenced by the 49ers situation.
     
  31. flynryan15

    flynryan15 A True Fan Donator

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    So the good drafting teams are bad on the field and the bad drafting teams are good on the field? Brilliant!
     
  32. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit A True Fan

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    Seriously it took the third page for someone to say this. Wow.

    Guys we have Odrick starting, who by the way, is a mediocre defensive end and may be better off inside.

    We have Sean Smith starting, who by the way, is a mediocre cornerback. And we have no better options here.

    We have had Jake Long starting, who by the way, is a mediocre offensive tackle.

    The only players we have drafted who are worth a **** is Pouncey, Hartline and Reshad Jones over the last five years. So that's three good ones in 5 years and hopefully Tannehill and Miller is on the list next year.
     
  33. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    Ridiculous premise, the GM is in full control of who is on the team so the GM is in control of who starts. Its absolutely STUPID to measure his success solely based on something he controls. Example: if Chad Henne and Pat White are the only QBs on the roster Ireland gets credit for drafting a starting QB. RIDICULOUS!!
     
  34. flynryan15

    flynryan15 A True Fan Donator

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    In the last year all 5 of the top drafting teams have had Head Coaching changes and 3 of the 5 have has front office changes! This is SubOmar journalism!
     
  35. Casas9425

    Casas9425 A True Fan

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    Absolutely ridiculous.
     
  36. GCD960

    GCD960 A True Fan

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    Yea - it's serious. The point is, just bc you start for one team, doesn't mean that the player would start on every other team. Nolan Carrol was a starter, how many teams does he start for other then the fins.

    That's the point.
     
  37. tylerdolphin

    tylerdolphin More Smug than Birthday Dog Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    Seven of this years playoff teams are in the bottom half of that list. Five playoff teams are in the bottom third, including this years two Super Bowl teams.

    I feel like Im being trolled.
     
  38. z926538

    z926538 Rookie

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    Yes, but if your purchasing agent replaces the rotted rancid six year old spoiled ingredients with rotten rancid one year old spoiled ingredients, it doesn't matter how good the chef is. The dish may be better but it still tastes like ****. And if the chef and the purchasing agent both suck, then you are going to be left with multiple consecutive losing seasons and continued mediocrity that drains all hope out of the fan base.

    Let's be honest here. The majority of our draft picks during the Wannstedt-Saban-Cameron era were awful. Absolutely awful Awful to the point that a blindfolded monkey throwing darts could have done better. And that history of failed draft picks led to a decline in the team that culminated in our 1-15 season. Given that our starters at the beginning of the Ireland GM era were so bad, our dart throwing monkey could have done equally as well as Ireland on many of those metrics. If you replace awful players with players that are only bad you have may have scored in some artificial metrics, but you haven't left the team as anything other than being consistently mediocre. And it doesn't make you the number 2 drafting team in the league.
     
  39. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus 1/7/14 Finheaven VIP

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    The Dolphins are and have been recently a mediocre team, which means young guys get a chance to start over veterans who aren't that good. The Dolphins also don't resign their own draft picks. No one brings it up but no one Jeff Ireland has drafted has been resigned by the team, which means newer rookies are regularly getting shots to play.

    Also, we do a terrible job signing unrestricted free agents. Most of them don't get big free agent deals but they also don't make the team or play much. Which means, hey... more draft picks.

    Any study that places equal weight on starts and doesn't factor in the quality of the player starting is just playing with their own poop, imo. It's like saying every major college program does an equally good job of recruiting if an equal percentage of their recruits end up playing. Sorry, but my little scorecard says Alabama is better than you, Rutgers.
     
  40. Dick Pepperwood

    Dick Pepperwood A True Fan

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    Who Cares Dude? 4 Losing Seasons in a Row. Blah Blah Blah we draft Good. That's Awesome!
     

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