Overrated & Underrated Dolphins?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by So Be, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    From players, to coaches, to front office personnel, who is overrated or underrated this year?

    I'm gonna start this with some forgotten men, who seldom get any credit from Phans.

    Darren Rizzi, ST's coach- He has done a fabulous job the last two years.

    Darren Krein, Strength & conditioning- He took some heat for last year but, has shown what he can do without a lockout.

    Jim Turner, OL coach- Great job with what he has had to work with this year in zone blocking.

    Zac Taylor, Assistant QB coach- Sherman get the credit but, he works with RT every day.

    Chris Grier & Chris Shea, Director & Assistant of college scouting- The young talent we have was not picked out of a hat. They have done well, as we are now seeing with coaches to develop who they recommend.

    For myself, I am eliminating Ireland from this thread, as he is only a part of what this is about. I DO NOT want to see him take this over in yet another lengthy debate, forgetting everyone else.
     
  2. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    I'll keep it to just players because I don't know enough about what coaches/personnel and others do and I agree leaving Ireland out of this is for the best. There are enough threads on him already.


    Underrated

    Pat Devlin -
    Just Reading threads from the Matt Moore trade speculation, there is some people who think Devlin is just some kind of fill in 3rd stringer that is far less capable than Matt Moore. Pat Devlin is a west coast QB by design. Quick release, Accurate, mobile enough . . . he needed the right system and the right coaching to get the most out of him and he is getting that now. 3rd stringers in preseason or not, you saw some of the command that he had of this offense in those games and that wasn't a fluke. I can understand being apprehensive about if Tannehill goes down Devlin won't be ready and the experienced Matt Moore is the obvious choice . . . but I truly believe come next year he is going to be a solid backup to Tannehill.

    Anthony Fasano - Really a complete TE. Sure he isn't the best blocking TE in the league, but he's a solid blocking TE . . .and obviously he isn't the best receiving TE, but he can get the job done when called upon. As much as we cry for upgrades at TE and to even suggest "cutting" Fasano because he plays bad against the Falcons . . . he is clearly our best TE and we should be looking to find a compliment ala David Martin 2008 instead of trying to replace him. He's looking like a definite resign if you ask me.

    Cameron Wake - Well I don't have to tell Dolfans this, but Cameron Wake is the best pass rusher in the NFL. He may not lead the league in sacks but he has graded out since last year as the most effective pass rusher factoring in sacks, pressures, holding calls and QB hits. When I can see people make polls on Mario Williams or Cam Wake, and people say Mario Williams . . . . there is no doubt they don't understand the force Cam Wake is. Jeff Ireland (I had to bring his name up . . . doh) got this one right . . . in fact, it's his shining star on his resume if you ask me (though Tannehill could challenge that soon). From his first contract to his second contract . . . excellent deals . . . and I don't even like Jeff :lol: Kudos to JI.

    Jonathan Martin - He was god awful in preseason and considered a disappointment from the first preseason game . . . but this kid has made HUGE strides as the season keeps progressing. Solid feet and a solid pass protector and we are even running tough behind him and Jerry on that right side. I think many of us felt he was a year away from being solid, but he is doing well right now and I'll tell you what, if Jake Long doesn't get resigned . . . Jonathan Martin will be the biggest reason why. Sure he's not Jake Long but he fits this scheme better than Jake and he's going to be a solid pass protector in this league.

    Overrated

    Lamar Miller - Not his fault really but it truly isn't fair to think that this guy can take over for Reggie Bush. Hell Daniel Thomas was out and we barely saw the kid . . . when Thomas is in, he gets plenty of burn . . . why is that? I dunno, when I watched him at the U, I saw a guy who would go down easy, get constant gains of 1 yard and then out of nowhere hit the homerun. He struggles in pass protection and maybe he isn't picking things up as quick as he needs to, to be a guy who can spell your starting RB. He has alot of potential but when I see threads like "Lamar Miller > Trent Richardson" . . . I have to snicker a bit.

    Jake Long
    - Hard to be overrated when you are a top 5 LT in the game. We still have not seen him at his fullest potential as a run blocker and he can struggle with the elite speed rushers. He'll probably command the highest contract ever given to a LT in league history, or somewhere in that neighborhood and he truly has been average this year. He's a notoriously slow starter and I thought he played well in the Rams game so I expect him to turn it on barring injury.

    Matt Moore - He was brilliant at times last year but I don't think this new offense fits him at all. He looked awful in preseason, and despite the positive comments on Hard Knocks about his leadership . . . David Garrard clearly was ahead of him prior to getting injured and Tannehill just marched right on by him as well. Hell it wouldn't surprise me if Pat Devlin was ahead of him in the coaches mind (not on the depth chart for the public to see tho).

    Ritchie Incognito - Love his intensity and for a guy who had no business being placed as the LG from day one (injury issues and lack of confidence in other players) he probably has performed better than anybody could have expected him to. However for this new ZBS we are running, I think it is about time to start finding a better replacement for Ritchie. He's sluggish, his feet are meh and he's just not a good fit. I've been saying this for years, or atleast attempt to move him to RG . . . but Ritchie finds a way to keep sticking. We should dominate running left, especially in short yardage situations and we just have not been able to do that. In fantasy world if we could move Pouncey over to LG and bring over his brother to play center . . . that line would be dominate in this system.


    Mixed Feelings

    Brian Hartline and Davone Bess - Before coming into this season you really had to stress how "underrated" Miami's first options at WR were. The notion everywhere is that Miami had "nothing" at WR and that simply wasn't true. They may not have legitimate #1 guys, but they had guys who can help move the offense down the field. Bess is one of the most dependable guys in the league, especially on 3rd downs, great route runner and has been extremely consistent his entire tenure in the NFL. Hartline is a guy that deceives alot of folks, solid hands, solid route runner, pretty good speed and makes tough catches. Where my feelings become mixed are when I watch a guy like Victor Cruz add that "explosiveness" from the slot WR position . . . something that Davone Bess just doesn't have. In today's NFL, you almost require your slot WR to be a guy who can put up #1 numbers as QB's will exploit that nickel CB and having a guy that can ake a 5 or 10 yard route the distance after the catch is crucial. It's not a coincedence that the 2 best slot WR's in the game met up in the Super Bowl last year. With Hartline you really see how limited he can be as a #1 when teams actually pay attention to him. He's a very average WR, which is fine, but truly is out of his element and needs that #1 type of WR opposite of him to relive him of some of that pressure so he can continue to make plays as a #2 or #3 or even #4 option in the offense. This is why this upcomming draft is so crucial in regards to skill players . . . you don't need to just fill holes, you need to improve the overall talent of your skill players on offense . . . because even though guys like Bess and Hartline are very likeable and our best options at WR right now, they are limited in their capabilities and having a plethora of options to choose from to help make this offense go will only aid in making this team an eventual and consistent Super Bowl contender and make Ryan Tannehill a top tier QB.
     
    Gonzo likes this.
  3. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    From a player's standpoint, I would say Fasano, who will not get any overall respect until we throw his the ball more. I don't know if Tanny would still be on the field if not for his blocking.

    Misi is mostly forgotten but, has played really well, and Hartline is Rodney Dangerfield in still looking for a little respect.
     
  4. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Great post and run down. WELL DONE!!!
     
  5. cullenbigcstill

    cullenbigcstill FinHeaven VIP

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    I agree great post KDAWG!

    SouthBeach2 is Chis Grier and Chris Shea are they from Philbin and Co or are they holdovers from the Cowboys regime?
     
  6. Thumper1016

    Thumper1016 A True Fan

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    I would have to say Fasano. I have openly flamed him on performance in past games but he is making me eat my words and changing my outlook on him as a over all solid TE.
     
  7. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    Pretty much nailed it I can't think of anything to add at the moment. Well done!
     
  8. dabeastdabone

    dabeastdabone Seasoned Veteran

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    Honestly I'm confused. Who underrates Wake? Devlin is 100% assumption, has he even played a real game snap? As for overrated calling Long top five then putting him in the overrated group, not to mention wasn't he just rated as the what...40th something rated offensive lineman somewhere (sorry I just recall a link here). Moore is a backup and always has been, where does overrating come into play there. Who rates Miller as more than maybe a second stringer. Perhaps I'm off but don't the vast majority of people thing Incognito isn't all that good?
     
  9. BG12DM13CP10

    BG12DM13CP10 Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill = Overated
     
  10. CallMeDaddy

    CallMeDaddy CMD Finheaven VIP

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    I'd put Charles Clay as overrated if he probably wasn't so lowly "rated" in the first place.
     
  11. moley

    moley Well-Known Member

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    just 1 i would add to underrated = brandon fields , year on year he has improved and imo should of been the pro bowl punter last year
    i know there is shane lechler of the raiders in the afc who seems booked into the probowl spot before the season kicks off
    but for me there is more to punting than booming the ball into orbit , fields out plays lechler in directional punting and keeping teams backed up
    against there own goal line

    but saying that fields has added like 2 yards per punt onto his average this year to be above 50yards a punt
    how many times have we said fields has kept us in the game by pinning opponents on there goal line or has swung field position our way
    for me he is afc pro bowl punter!
     
  12. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero Donator

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    Nice post however IMO Cameron Wake isnt underrated and is very much well known by offenses. I also wouldnt put long anywhere near the top 5 best LT in the league. I wouldnt even put him in the top ten. I dont think we have seen enough out of Lamar Miller to call him either overrated or underrated. Remember, he is averaging almost 6 YPC
     
  13. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter

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    Just out of curiosity who are your top 10 LTs? I agree that I don't think Long is top 5 but I'm not sure how he isn't top 10.
     
  14. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    In a sense the whole team is underrated. Nobody expected us to do anything this year and yet we're two FG from being 5 and 1 and alone in first place. Carpenter who at one point seemed a he was going to be a very good kicker for us is not overrated and should probably have been cut already. Long is there too as he's not playing as a top 5 LT at this point.

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  15. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Grier is in his 12th season with Miami, and his 4th as Director of scouting. This is also Shea's 4th year with the Dolphins.

    http://204.88.29.222/content/chris-shea
     
  16. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    I believe that Wake has been underrated by the national media and fans, as well as some locally, who only are looking at sacks. I think the poster was referring to Long having been top 5 rated, and he did mention him being average so far this year. Cog is good but, not in Philbin's system.

    Devlin is assumption but, Philbin really likes him, and has said so. Many called Moore a VG QB after last year but, he really wasn't. JMO
     
  17. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    Anyone who thinks Tannehill is overrated simply either hasn't been closely watching, or doesn't understand what they are looking at....period!

    Despite a limited number of starts in college, this kid gets better and better every week, showing a poise and a command of the game you rarely see this early in a rookie QB.

    He hasn't thrown an interception in the last two games and his QB rating in those games is over a 100 combined.

    In fact, if you take away his first game where we had 7 minutes of JJ Watt madness, he has a positive touchdown to interception ratio, not to mention some dropped touchdown passes.
     
  18. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero Donator

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    I'm not sure but even top ten LT's dont have multiple holding calls and give up more than 1 sack per game. Last game Jake gave up 2 sacks and had 2 holding calls. It seems every game Jake gets penalized 2 or 3 times and gives up a sack.
     
  19. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Here's a list of 10 LT's playing better than Long, in no particular order. Clady from Denver, Brown from Houston, Staley from SF, Solder from NE, Thomas from Cleve, Ferguson from the Jets, Whitworth from Cinci, Kalil from Minny, Roos from Tenn, And Williams from Wash.
     
  20. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter

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    Hold on though, if you're going to say he's not top 10 you got to name names. Who at LT is better than Jake Long?

    I can say Joe Thomas, Ryan Clady, Duane Brown and Joe Staley but after that it gets a little iffy so if you have 10 guys in front of Jake Long I'd like to hear it.
     
  21. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter

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    Don't think Kalil should be on that list. He got his lunch money taken yesterday against the Bucs. Haven't watched Tennessee or Washington play this year. Didn't Whitworth give up 1.5 sacks to Misi when we played them?
     
  22. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Hard to believe anyone has seen Tannehill as anything less than very impressive so far this year. He has had to deal with 18 drops, which is a lot. I have to think some of that is getting in sync with his WR's, and them adjusting to how quickly the ball gets to them.

    I have the Seattle and SF games circled to watch how he does vs VG D's. I also look forward to seeing how well he does this Sunday. He was bad vs the Jets in the first game.
     
  23. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    I did not watch last night's game, and he is a rookie who should be a little inconsistent. I watched Whitworth, when we played, and was VERY impressed. I don't believe he gave up any pressure, let alone a sack.
     
  24. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero Donator

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    I agree with most of southsides list, although I wouldnt put Ferguson on it. I would say this year include Russel Okung and Jordan Gross.


    ---------- Post added at 11:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 AM ----------

    Penn could be on the list though
     
  25. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    There are times when fans on this board may overrate him, only because they are excited at finally having a QB that looks to be the answer. Those that do overrate him in the long run could be exactly on the money.

    Outside of this board, he's still very much underrated and in the shadow of Luck, RGIII and Russell Wilson despite all 3 of those QB's having better options at the skill positions.
     
  26. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    I didn't really pay attention to sacks and penalties against the Rams, well except that one BS holding call that Steratore and that bummy ref crew called on Jake. I thought Jake was brilliant against the Rams, especially as the game moved on. The Rams clearly didn't fear the Fins passing game, stopped the running game and were barreling down on the OLine and Tannehill and Jake was winning all of his battles and several times when the DE would make a move, Jake would counter to ensure Tannehill didn't get touched. I put a focus on him during the game and I liked what I saw. I'm expecting him to have a great 2nd half of the season.
     
  27. moley

    moley Well-Known Member

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    i thought misi got his 1.5 sacks against the god awful cardinals o line , but imo long is better than any of washington and titans tackles
     
  28. zmill

    zmill Active Member

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    Underrated: Bess, Fasano, and dare I say... Ireland?
     
  29. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    I think we can debate who is on my list, and I have not seen enough of any of their play to dispute adding or subtracting a few. However, the bottom line is that Big Jake is not there, which is very disappointing. I don't think anyone would have him in the top 12 or more for his play so far this year.

    I know a fan in Cleve, and we used to debate who is #1 vs #2. Now, it's tuff to put Long in the top half, based on this year's play.
     
  30. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    OK, now I am cheating in looking this up. Last game, Long gave up 0 sacks, 0 hits, and 1 hurry. He was called for 2 penalties, with 1 accepted.

    For the YEAR, he has given up 2 sack, 2 hits, and 3 hurries, and was called for 4 penalties, with 2 accepted.

    Jake has not been his dominating self, so far, and has struggled in run blocking but, he deserves NOT to be ripped by fiction.
     
  31. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    For the 6 games, I have to wonder if some of Long's problems are affected by Cog struggling to fit. We all know that the OL has to play together, and is somewhat joined at the hip. Any thoughts?
     
  32. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero Donator

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    It feels like mmuch more than that. I mean he gave up two sacks alone last week.


    ---------- Post added at 12:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:39 PM ----------

    The game was a mess. We had 1 first down that came on our first drive and then not another first down until our 4th drive when we scored the first TD of the game.
     
  33. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Don't know about your feelings or, where you get your info but, it just isn't true. :)
     
  34. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Game by game run down on Big Jake:

    Houston- 0 sacks, 0 hits, 0 hurries

    Oakland- 1 sack, 1 hit, 0 hurries

    Jets- 0 sacks, 0 hits, 1 hurry

    Zona- 1 sack, 0 hits, 0 hurries

    Cinci- 0 sacks, 1 hit, 1 hurry

    Rams- 0 sacks, 0 hits, 1 hurry

    These are facts, and Long is most definitely helping RT develop by his pass protection. He is sucking in run blocking, and not as dominant in pass protect. He is likely to do better but, for now, it is what it is.
     
  35. luduporcu

    luduporcu A True Fan

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    Drivel.
     
  36. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Easy to say. Coming up with 10 better will make the post useful but, you don't have that, Do you? LOL
     
  37. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    overrated- jake long reggie bush

    underrated- jared odrick anthony fasano

    player no one talks about but is on the rise...nolan carroll
     
  38. Atila

    Atila Atila - the freshmaker. Finheaven VIP

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    If you want to talk about underrated, you have to talk about our secondary play - our front 4 is getting great pressure which helps the secondary a lot, but Sean Smith and Nolan Carroll have been doing great at the corner positions.

    Moreover, Rashad Jones has been outstanding at stopping the run and making some plays in the secondary. He has been far from perfect, as he has been responsible for a fair share of the chunk yards TE's have been getting off us, but he has been a playmaker. He has stuffed runs at the line and done fairly well in the secondary in his first season as the full-time starter. Chris Clemons has been mediocre but at least hasn't been responsible for *too many* big plays.

    I think our secondary unit from a coaching, personnel, and performance have all been better than expected.
     
  39. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    Trent Richardson is going to be a big old bust and Lamar Miller WILL have a better career.

    Good effort on your list though. I will give you credit for that.
     
  40. jets_fan

    jets_fan Active Member

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    If you're talking public perception...Fasano and Randy Starks come to mind.

    I think Dansby is a bit underrated too, considering how steady he is for the defense and how important he is. Granted, he's not PAID like an underrated player. But playing ILB the last few years under the old system tends to make guys go under the radar. ILB is one of the least glamorous positions. He can stand out a little more at MLB like he did at Arizona, but he's pretty important to your team.

    Cameron Wake is not underrated. Everyone knows he's the team's best pass rusher and one of the better ones in the league. But he's def not the best pass rusher in the NFL though like the OP was trying to say. JJ Watt, Von Miller,Demarcus Ware and Jared Allen are certainly better. So is JPP despite his slow start..well, slow for him anyways.
     
  41. CRAZYDOLFAN305

    CRAZYDOLFAN305 We Are Still Going To The SB

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    Underatted

    Dawn Aponte- Currently has our salary cap with very minimal dead money going into 2013. Sign all the F.A. this past year to expendable contracts in the event should they not make the roster. Also Manage to get off-set language in Ryan Tannehill's contract. I think she might be the only female at her current position. I think she played a major roll in getting Tannehill to end his hold out and get his *** into camp. Aponte, entering her third season with the Dolphins, joined the team on February 1, 2010 as the club’s Senior Vice President of Football Operations. Aponte works closely with General Manager Jeff Ireland and Head Coach Joe Philbin on football administrative matters and serves as the team’s chief contract negotiator. She is responsible for the management and strategic planning of the Dolphins salary cap, negotiating and drafting player contracts and overseeing the football operations budgets

    Ill never forget this exchange.

    Aponte: I expressed to him that where we sit at the moment, based on both our positions, Ryan will not be a Miami Dolphin this year.
    Philbin: You told him that?
    Aponte: Yes. He'll go back into the draft.
    Philbin: And what did he say to that?
    Aponte: He's prepared to do it. I think the only one who makes this decision is Ryan.

    At the time I thought she was just plain crazy, but it work, Tannehill sure did get his *** in here.

    Brian Gaine- Believes in the value of being able to recognize potential. These days, Gaine’s professional reputation rides on on his ability to find players whose talent and mental makeup will enable them to compete at the game’s highest level — the National Football League. Building off the determination and perseverance learned from his parents and coaching mentors along the way, Gaine has worked his way up through the ranks in the NFL. As a player, he spent a year each on practice squads with the New York Jets and New York Giants, then in 1998 was cut by the Kansas City Chiefs. The next year, he hooked on with the Jets’ scouting department.

    Gaine worked there five years before doing a two-year stint with the Dallas Cowboys. He was hired by Miami as its assistant director of player personnel in 2008 and was promoted to director last year before getting the assistant GM appointment in June.

    “We’re trying to be first class in all that we do, try to create a positive influence,” said Gaine, who works directly with Dolphins General Manager Jeff Ireland. “We’re optimistic and encouraged about the future and we’re really excited about coach [Joe] Philbin and his staff.”

    http://bit.ly/PYg7fe

    George Edwards-He's always done a phenomenal job with our LB's. And he has help Koa Missi become a much better player this year.

    Marlon Moore- It seems as all this guy does is make plays. He's played only a handfull of snaps on offense, but yet in just a little over 15 targets he has 9 Receptions and 2 Td's. And he's one of our best special teams players.

    Kevin Burnett- This dude is probably Ireland's best F.A. Signee. Has started all 22 games since he got here. Has 139 Tackles, 3 sacks, Int to return for TD.

    Overrated

    Matt Moore- Kdawg hit the nail on the head, Matt Moor is just not a west coast type of QB.
     
  42. CRAZYDOLFAN305

    CRAZYDOLFAN305 We Are Still Going To The SB

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    C'mon dude really? Take the thread for what it is. This was a brilliant topic in my opinion.
     
  43. CRAZYDOLFAN305

    CRAZYDOLFAN305 We Are Still Going To The SB

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    Playmaker did you say playmaker?? Lol. Just Joking.
     

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