Overrated/Underrated

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Flyer22, Feb 1, 2006.

  1. Flyer22

    Flyer22 Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure this was posted a while back, but I think it has more relevance now that the Senior Bowl is over. Who do you think is overrated and underrated among the draft prospects? My picks:
    Underrated
    Jerome Harrison, RB Washington State- At first I thought he was too small, but Harrison really good in the Senior Bowl
    Charles Spencer, OL Pitt- Succeeded against many of the nation's premier lineman in the Senior Bowl

    Overrated
    Elvis Dumervil, DE Louisville- This guy lead the NCAA in sacks?
    Derek Hagan, WR Arizona State- Dropped too many balls in the Senior Bowl
     
  2. SMadison29

    SMadison29 What Sherman aspires to be

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    They were overrated. They've since dropped down the charts.
     
  3. LIQUID24

    LIQUID24 hi

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    Overrated

    Vince Young
    Haloti Ngata
    Barrick Nealy - he absolutely sucks, not a "sleeper"
    Derek Hagan - was overrated, now falling into place
    Eric Winston - see above
    Andrew Whitworth
    Greg Eslinger - those that think he can play in any system
    DeAngelo Williams - somewhat overrated
    Jay Cutler - see above


    My underrated list is shorter, I'll do it later.
     
  4. Pocoloco

    Pocoloco I'm your huckleberry

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    ahh Vince Young. probably still a top 10 guy any way you look at it, but top 3? overrated yes, but only slightly.
     
  5. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents my 2 cents

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    Man do I agree with you on Whitworth, he is horrible...when not jumping offsides or holding he is chasing the guy that just whipped his butt....

     
  6. Motion

    Motion Banned Hammered

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    All a matter of opinion. Top 10 as an athlete? No doubt. But as a QB, no way imo.
     
  7. nopony

    nopony A True Fan

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    I don't think you watched much Vince Young last year.

    Vince Young's passing numbers...

    Comp % - 65.2 Yards - 3036 YPA - 9.3(!) TDs - 26 INTs - 10 Rating - 163.9

    The 1000 yards rushing and 12 rushing TDs are just a bonus.

    For comparison:

    Cutler:

    Comp % - 59.1 Yards - 3073 YPA - 6.65 TDs 21 INTs 9 Rating - 126.07
     
  8. Motion

    Motion Banned Hammered

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    Seriously, how many threads are you gonna post those numbers in????

    I saw him quite a bit actually.
     
  9. nopony

    nopony A True Fan

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    Every thread where there is someone who mistakenly states that Vince Young is a runner, not a passer.

    So, if leading the nation in passing wasn't good enough for you, what is? Being an moderately accurate white guy from a terrible football school?
     
  10. HysterikiLL

    HysterikiLL A True Fan

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    Here we go with the Vince bashing again. On a 'completely unrelated topic' ;) did anyone see Donovan McNabb talking today about the poor conception of black quarterbacks? Hmm.
     
  11. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    I have to disagree about Williams....he showed great vision and great speed and burst.The guy is not overated imo.I can agree with all the other guys tho.

    Ozzy rules!!
    :rawk: :rockon: :band2:
     
  12. Motion

    Motion Banned Hammered

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    Don't even start making this about color. No one is disputing the fact that VY was a great college QB. We're talking NFL potential, and IMO he needs alot of work. Some people are so narrowminded.
     
  13. Dolfan2788

    Dolfan2788 Melubulongtime

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    Underrated:
    Skyler Green
    Gabe Watson
    Nick Mangold
    Cedric Griffin
    Joseph Addai
    Tamba Hali
    D'qwell Jackson

    Overrated:
    Jay Cutler
    Thomas Howard
    Jeremy Trueblood
    Jean-Giles
    Jason Avant (even for how low he is rated now)
    Alan Zemaitis
     
  14. jlfin

    jlfin old pro

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    "white guy" ??

    I trust scouts and personnel people more than stats. I doubt Vince Young puts up those numbers playing for Vanderbilt. I bet Cutler's numbers are even better playing for a more talented team like USC or Texas.

    Saying he's a top 10 talent instead of a top 3 talent is considered bashing?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2006
  15. Motion

    Motion Banned Hammered

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    Exactly, but that kind of logic is hard for them to understand.
     
  16. Pennington's Rocket Arm

    Pennington's Rocket Arm Sucking for Luck Since 2004

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    you have a lot to learn, young one.
     
  17. Miamibyrd_24

    Miamibyrd_24 Well-Known Member

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    I really disagree with one person on that Overrated list. Jean-Giles, to me, made things happen, pulling, getting up field, putting players on their backs. He the biggest standout among the linemen, if any one is overrated its D'Brickshaw, getting beat around the edges, showing he needs to improve footwork. Just my thoughts.
     
  18. Phishstix

    Phishstix Finheaven's Fattest Pimp

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    while i agree that cutler would have better stats at usc or texas, vince young is the kind of talent that would have had vandy in a bowl game or two. young was a magnificent college qb- we don't know what he'll do in the pro's, but don't shortchange his impact as a college qb.
     
  19. jlfin

    jlfin old pro

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    I'm not shortchanging him. I'm merely pointing out the fact that stats aren't the only way to evaluate players.
     
  20. nopony

    nopony A True Fan

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    I'm sorry, but if you think color has nothing to do with the overall reaction to Vince Young, you are deluding yourself.
     
  21. Motion

    Motion Banned Hammered

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    Now your just reaching.
     
  22. nopony

    nopony A True Fan

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    Are you under the impression that scouts and personnel people like Cutler better than young? Really? Because ESPN likes him?

    :sidelol:

    Me too!

    You know, You could very well be right. I don't know. But if I had to bet my house on any of them succeeding, Leinart and Young would get the nod well before Cutler at this point.

    But I'm not allowed to bet my house anymore, so that's moot.:wink:
     
  23. Pennington's Rocket Arm

    Pennington's Rocket Arm Sucking for Luck Since 2004

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    considering the overall reaction to vince young is that he's the best player of all time, i don't see that the color of his skin has affected too many people. maybe people of the same color.
     
  24. nopony

    nopony A True Fan

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    Good god, truer words were never spoken. Half the people on here hava laready annointd him the next Marino

    They probably already have Jay Cutler pajamas and sippy cups.
     
  25. Pennington's Rocket Arm

    Pennington's Rocket Arm Sucking for Luck Since 2004

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    i just find it odd for people to talk negative a on guy they've never watched play outside of the senior bowl. just as bizarre as annoiting him the next great one without watching him play.
     
  26. nopony

    nopony A True Fan

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    :sidelol:

    i wish.

    hell of a persuasive argument, by the way. I'm totally convinced now. I have a lot to learn. Vince Young's numbers are unimpressive and meaningless.

    :shakeno:

    Not by a long shot. Am I saying that everyone who doesn't like Vince Young as a quarterback is a racist? 100% NO, that's not what I'm saying at ALL.

    Does race have anything to do with it? Absolutely.

    This may very well not apply to you... but I guarantee you that there are a LOT of people out there who dislike Vince Young for one reason, they've already put him in the Mike Vick category. They see him, he;s a black quarterback who can run so he must not be able to pass.

    Hell, people on here have come right out and said, that they don't know at all, but they bet Leinart's smarter... wth?
     
  27. Motion

    Motion Banned Hammered

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    So true.
     
  28. nopony

    nopony A True Fan

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    Hm. Let me look over this board... yep. Doesn't seem to be that reaction. In fact, people here seem to bash him a lot...

    Assumptions... always risky. You made two of them in there. Care to guess why both are wrong?
     
  29. LIQUID24

    LIQUID24 hi

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    This nopony guy is hilarious. Accuses people of not watching games, yet all he can do is copy and paste STATS. Real convincing there, junior.

    BTW, bringing race into this is pretty lame. Me thinking Young is overrated has nothing to do with his skin color. Besides, I had Darrell Hackney in my sig for months.
     
  30. Motion

    Motion Banned Hammered

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    In the grand scheme of things possibly. But in the context you put it in, suggesting that was even a remote factor in my opinion of him is absolutely ridiculous.
     
  31. nopony

    nopony A True Fan

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    Yeah, dang that nopony and his pesky facts!

    :shakeno:

    Give me a break.

    Also if you bothered to read... your reaction to Young may have nothing to do with his skin color... but if you think it doesn't play into his overall reaction, you are living in a sheltered world.
     
  32. Pennington's Rocket Arm

    Pennington's Rocket Arm Sucking for Luck Since 2004

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    very simple reasons why people think leianrt is smarter:

    1: he's operated a complex pro-style offense for 3 years to perfection. young is in a pretty simple offense, and started out as an option QB who struggled reading a defense, pretty much
    2: leinart sounds more intelligent when he speaks, young doesn't sound too bright

    the fact is the general consensus from across the country is that young is superman, and that's coming from every race. in fact the only person in the national media i've heard say something negative about him is merril hoge, and it's not even negative, it's just that he needs a lot of development to be a good NFL quarterback.

    and i assuming you haven't watched any vanderbilt games nopony because all of your arguments against him haven't proven otherwise. you cite other scouts' opinions, copy and paste stats, and talk about what you've seen at the senior bowl only.
     
  33. nopony

    nopony A True Fan

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    You're right. I do not mean to imply that it factors into YOUR opinion. I really don't.

    It does factor into the general opinion of him, and not even in a neccessarily blatant dislike-black-people way.

    But those, unlike you, who are not watching or analyzing, that assuming he's vick... well, I have to say that skin color figures into that... because they have nothing in common at all as passers.
     
  34. nopony

    nopony A True Fan

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    1. I think it is perfectly find to argue that Leinart has proven to be smarter. If you read what I read, the guy I am talking about wasn't basing it on te same things you are.

    2. I quoted scouts about Cutler?

    3. Read the boards. You will find a ton of outrageously anti-Young posts.

    4. The biggest assumption you make in that statements is that I am anti-Cutler.

    I've said it many times... I am pro-Cutler, anti- the massive Cutler hype that has grown out of proportion to what he's proven.

    If Nick drafted Cutler at 16, I would be happy and hope we'd gotten the QB of the future.

    My reaction here was to the ridiculous assumption that Young is a running qb who can't throw.
     
  35. Pennington's Rocket Arm

    Pennington's Rocket Arm Sucking for Luck Since 2004

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    time to just pick one thought and stick to it nopony. you're all over the place.
     
  36. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Manning to Tyree = Best SB Play EVER!!!!

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    The ONLY reason Vince Young has a question mark is his release. If he had great mechanics he would be the number 1 or number 2 pick in the draft.

    As a quarterback he truely understands when to run and when not to run.
     
  37. LIQUID24

    LIQUID24 hi

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    That's ONE of his question marks... not the only one. Most people that think that have only seen him play in the Rose Bowl.
     
  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Manning to Tyree = Best SB Play EVER!!!!

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    In everything I have read from scouts and experts as well. I have yet to read one thing that states that Vince Young has a problem of when to run and when to pass. I have also yet read a thing from a scout or an expert that states that if his mechanics were perfect he would easily be a top 2 pick in the draft
     
  39. djfresh47

    djfresh47 R.I.P. djfresh47

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    I think Leinart is the 2nd best player in the draft after Reggie Bush, but i'll imply the option thing to Cutler. Didn't he start out as an option Qb? Cutler may turn out great, but i'm skeptical of guys who just fly up draft boards after a workout. Cutler to me is the 3rd best Qb in the draft, and he's clearly better than the Croyle/Whitehurst, who I would rank 4th and 5th. BTW, if people don't think race has to do with the way some people percieve a Qb they're fooling themselves, this may not have to deal with Young or whatever, but I do recall a person basically naming every African-American as a running Qb including Leftwich not too long ago on this site. Now this probably doesn't apply to most of the people, but it's out there. BTW, I think Reggie McNeal and LenDale White are underrated, and DeAngelo Williams, Marcus McNeil and Eric Winston are overrated.
     
  40. nopony

    nopony A True Fan

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    Crazy that I was just responding to your thoughts then, huh?

    :shakeno:

    So what else?

    i watched him quite a bit. He has a great long ball, is DEADLY accurate and throws well short, medium and long. He checks of recievers superbly and reads defenses well. He excelled on the highest stage of college football and is a consistent winner.

    his release is unorthodox, but not neccessarily bad... just a question mark.

    Leinart's question mark is his arm strength.

    I've seen a lot of Young, and once people get past the silly idea that he's Marcus Vick, he's an incredibly impressive QUARTERBACK. Not athlete, quarterback.
     

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