P.I.E. Principle: How Joe Philbin should be assessed this year.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Hayden Fox, Aug 30, 2012.

  1. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    I have taken a lot static for lending criticism to new coach Joe Philbin. I do not deny that I thought there were other candidates early on in the process that could have been effective selections. Be that as it may, once hired, I thought we needed to stand behind the coach. It did not mean we could not analyze what he was doing well or not.

    I read on this site people having blind faith in him. While others say they are being "patient" and will wait for the first game to pass judgement. Others have already canned the guy.

    It is obvious to me that this team is young and has many holes. Philbin should be graded on not so much wins and losses, but the P.I.E Principle. If the team is effective in these elements during the season, I will be happy. If we are failing as such, than I will be the first to rip Joe Philbin.

    P: Professional- I want to see the team look like an NFL team on Sunday's. Things like taking care of the ball, tackling, knowing where they need to be on each play. In other words, they look like there was sufficient preparation during the week. I want the Fins to look like they are "being coached".

    I: Improvement- This is the most important of the three IMO. I expect the early part of the year to be rough. Do we see, however, the defense start to become steady? Does the passing game eventually start to show signs of life? Does the offensive line start to become a force? OR is there regression? This was a team that was pretty strong down the stretch last year. No doubt there are key players not here, but this is the same regime that willfully sent those players away.

    E: Energy- I will use Joe Philbin's own word and it is appropriate. One thing that has bothered me this year is the lack of energy in preseason games. Is that on the players? Yes. However, the staff led by Philbin is also a part of that. Why do they seem a step slow and flat each week? One area of credit I gave Tony Sparano and Todd Bowles is the team played HARD for them. Not perfect and intelligent all the time, but with zeal and abandon. I want to see the team playing like their hair is on fire.

    I really feel this how the team should be evaluated each week as opposed to the scoreboard and win column. I know I am going to attempt to do as such...I invite you to join me.
     
  2. andyahs

    andyahs Bahamian Redneck Donator

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    I agree Hayden and it's good to see you take this sort of approach but the bottom line is it's wins and loses that determine a coach's fate in the end but I am willing to be patient with Philbin.
     
  3. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    wins and losses

    however when they drafted Tanney at #8 - they conceded the season - clearly they feel like getting the rot out is more important than making a any kind of attempt at winning but jeff helped to bring the rot in so he must be accountable - I don't see how he is selecting at the draft next year -

    i at least hope to see some hustle this year

    i expect a lot of broken play yardage from Tanney and this is going to be a looooooong season waiting to draft in the top 1-2-3
     
  4. foozool13

    foozool13 #12 #13 #23 #29 #54 #99 Donator

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    Good Post Overall and I def agree that Improvement over the entire season is the key. Wins and Loses are obviously important, but are the players actually getting better as the season progresses? That shows me the coaching staff knows what they are doing and that the players are buying in.
     
  5. MadDog 88

    MadDog 88 TANNERECTION!!!! Donator

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    Mods, can we sticky this?
     
  6. Miamifinz

    Miamifinz Philbin is an idiot Donator

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    I want to see him evoke the same, possibly more, of that effort I saw towards the end of last year. 6+ wins without Bell, Allen, Marshall, Langford, Davis would be a solid first year.
     
  7. SRM

    SRM Scout Team

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    T: Timeouts- Use of timeouts. Is he going to call a timeout at the most random of occasions? Will he be the difference in winning and losing a game because he can't read a clock?
     
  8. FinHopeful

    FinHopeful Starter

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    I agree that the PIE principal is the most important part of the evaluation. The other is game management and game strategy. I believe that the preseason has zero value in judging a coaching staff. Actually, I think the preseason has negative coaching staff evaluation value. If you factor it in at all, you are automatically wrong with your evaluation.
     
  9. anson

    anson Active Member

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    Great post.
     
  10. damanref10

    damanref10 Little Lebowski Urban Achiever

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    I'm with you for most of the way Hayden. But Wins and Losses still do heavily factor in how you evaluate Philbin in year 1.

    For one, there are bundles and bundles of people here ranting about how easy of a schedule we have. I for one don't belong in that camp, I think the schedule every year on paper is totally different than 17 weeks from now. But the bottom line is, there are plenty of WINNABLE games. Not necessarily games we should win, but plenty that we have a fighting shot in.

    If this team 17 weeks from now has 4 or less wins, its obviously an indictment on the head coach, and he just like everyone else should be held accountable for it.

    This team belongs in the 5-7 win range, and I'm not saying if we don't meet that threshold he should be fired by any means.... but he doesn't just get a free pass in year one saying Wins and Losses don't count.
     
  11. rrrrphin

    rrrrphin Scout Team

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    I also want to see a team that plays well in the second half of each game.
    We will need to come out at the beginning of each second half after making solid adjustments to our opponent's game plan. I feel we have been out coached at each halftime for many years.
    It may be tough with a rookie Qb, but I want to see solid game time management inside the final four minutes of each game.
     
  12. CalDolFan10x14

    CalDolFan10x14 Your QB for the next 10 years. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Excellent points here. Now this is a good post here. Well done Hayden.
     
  13. Playmaker76

    Playmaker76 Well-Known Member

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    Moderators, this thread deserves to be "stickied." After each game we can see and comment how the team does in these categories.
     
  14. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    I remind you to take a look at this post and try to assess Philbin for better or worse on this criterion.

    Let's hope that we look like a team, play with energy and show progress.
     
  15. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    Fair enough.

    But thats not how Philbin will be judged. It will be wins and losses with this fanbase. This fanbase has no patience at this point. They dont understand that you build a team with your guys and you hit on some, miss on others, just like in NE.

    Everything rides on Tannehill. So far so good with much work to be done. Ireland is the boogie man and the bad man so we lose, the crap flies any way you slice it. Philbin wont be judged on this. He will be judged on many things, but losing will seal the deal for malcontents.

    Philbin has the professional part down pat. You have to give him at least two years or you wont see the progression. If anyone watches Syracuse ball would have noticed there progression yesterday even though they lost by 13. Syracuse had no business being in that game on paper. But they played hard hitting football and if it werent for superior WR talent running gadget plays, USC would have had a rough year.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2012
  16. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    Let's see progress from the preseason garbage we saw. That is my hope today in tough spot. Let's hope we do not give 6 TD passes like Cuse did to Barkley. lol
     
  17. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    what people need to understand is that preseason is garbage. New England looked like garbage. Jets looked like garbage. Bills looked like garbage. the list goes on and on and on....but everyone has already judged this team based on preseason. So losing just adds to their assumptions.
     
  18. NRA

    NRA Roll Gypsy Roll

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    we were not getting 6 wins at times WITH all those players!!

    god, i just do not get how some worship all these underachieving, lazy, over rated malcontents!!!

    we didnt win anything with those players because they were NOT championship caliber. none of those guys had the attitude, commitment, work ethic or game to be part of a champion. and you have to have those kind of players across the board to be a champion.

    philbin comes from a winner. he is a proven coach whos units always did well. and he is CLEANING HOUSE so he can get this team where it needs to be. we havnt rebuilt in MANY a year! constantly churning the bottom, bringing in aging and/or injured cast offs, bargain, journeyman f/agents every year is NOT rebuilding. what philbin is doing NOW is a true rebuild.

    just like the president of the united states [all of them], a newly elected prez has NO idea whats really going on with the country and the nations safety untill HE GETS IN OFFICE and has access to see all the info [now you know why guantanamo is still there!]. and a football coach is in the same boat. they dont KNOW untill they get there, get set up with their staff, see the films, meet the players and go through the mini camps and and pre season games.

    THEN you know, and can now start making your changes. some are obvious, like vontae. he had no work ethic or championship commitment and due to the importance of his position and his salary, he was deemed expendable in the rebuilding process. we didnt win with him. he never made a pro bowl and hadnt improved in 3 years. i liked philbin right away. in his first presser, he didnt come on with his chest out and boasting about how the team would instantly be tough, strong, diciplined and a winner right away under his tuteledge. no "were beating the pats, there days are numbered" type stuff that so many new coaches come in with. philbin made NO promises. just like a new president, if they start in with all their going to do right away, change this, accomplish that, its a LAUGHER because they are saying it all without seeing all the most important info!!

    philbin knew he has to see the films and meet the players and observe them BEFORE doing or saying ANYTHING!! and what he saw after doing all this is what many of us on the boards have been seeing for YEARS now, no big time talent, over rated, over paid vets sprinkled with low budget, free agent cast offs. what he saw wasnt pretty and he knew we were NOT going to win this year, even with the players he wanted gone so the time to act is NOW, not 2 or 3 years from now. in the free agent era of the NFL, you cant wait 6-7 years for high priced, hi drafted players like vontae to get it together. 3 years is just right for most players. with our cap room next year, the PERFECT thing to do was to start the rebuild. take out the trash and start collecting draft pics to go along with the MEGA CAP ROOM we will have next year.

    worked out pretty dang good for JIMMIE JOHNSON in dallas didnt it? and the fans and media were treating him just like the fans and media are treating philbin NOW!!

    will we be superbowl champs sooner than later? who knows. but these are the moves you make to build a winner out of a team that hasnt been one in over a decade. we FINALY have a coach who is willing and able to make the "tough" calls and not knee jerk every time a player or sports hack some disgruntled fans have a tizzy.

    coach philbin is a winner. hopefully we will have someone in place next year to get him some REAL talent in the draft and f/a. without that, he WILL fail and miami will be in for another LONG decade.

    for those of you not old enough [and there are many] to remember jj's first 2 years in dallas, go do the research on the net from jj's first presser through his first 3 years and see how you build a winner. how the fans reacted. how he was ridiculed by fellow nfl coaches and gm's. how the media failed. then take another long look at coach philbin and what he is doing now.

    then close yer cake hole for two years and ride the wave!!
     
  19. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    All I want to see is commitment, good coaching, good game management and gradual improvement. Considering the team he inherited I don't see how we can ask for any more. It will take 2/3 drafts before we are in a position to compete.
     
  20. NRA

    NRA Roll Gypsy Roll

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    rrrrrrfin:

    i would love to see all that to, but, you have to have the players to pull it off and we have been VOID of enough players over the last decade to accomplish it.

    we ARE rebuilding, weather anyone likes it or not. we still have a lot of players who need to go and we still need a lot of players to make the coaches schemes and game plans work.

    in pre season, they looked slow because the PLAYERS are slow. so many times i saw philbin or position coaches or our qb's yelling to get guys back on the line but they loafed around. you cant run a high octane, fast break offense with those types.

    philbin knows he cant get rid of EVERYONE he wants to this year. you have to have SOME bodies on the field. but that being what it is, we are going to see a lot of what we saw in pre season with the group we have. a lot of the linemen are not athletic and light enough to keep up with philbins type of offense. they were mostly the guys waddling and gasping back to the los in the games instead of getting up after plays and getting RIGHT BACK to the line. they were dragging their feet, LITERALY!!

    so if your expecting to see the hi flying, fast break offense that philbin wants to install happen this year, your in for a long, sad season. philbin knows he doesnt have the horses. and if a horse doesnt have the speed or endurance to finish a race, or keep up, he CANT WIN! no matter how hard the jockey crops him.

    were in that boat right now. philbins hands are tied untill he gets better horses!!
     
  21. HarryBagpipe

    HarryBagpipe Archibald Meatpants Super Donator Donator

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    As simplistic as it sounds, just like with tanny, I want to see that he belongs on the sideline and that it's not too big for him. We saw blunder after blunder early on from sparano, from the new Orleans game to the bills game where he allowed that stupid Ricky Williams pass into the endzone when we were running the ball down their throats, to the Dallas and Cleveland game last year and all the other obvious blunders he made that even the most casual fan could see.

    Im not expecting alot of wins this season but that doesn't mean he's cam Cameron. I want to see solid coaching and in game decisions win or lose.
     
  22. GoonBoss

    GoonBoss Finheaven Templar Super Donator Donator

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    I agree in principal, but how can you say the team played hard for
    Sparano? That's simply ridiculous.

    But overall that's the basic criteria I use to judge coaches.
     
  23. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    Scale 1 to 10.

    Professionalism: I thought the team looked prepared today. Did not waste timeouts. The mistakes that were made were physical and on the players. I think Sherman called a good game and the defense held tough vs. a tough offense. Joe made smart calls on challenging plays. 8

    Improvement: Not a lot to go on here outside they competed much better than the preseason. 8

    Energy: I think the team played hard. Even got chippy. Another score of an 8.

    Overall, I think he was okay in his debut in a tough venue vs. a difficult opponent.
     
  24. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    Game 2

    P: Professionalism: I loved the adjustments not just from last week, but at the half. Oakland was stuffing the run and running free at the QB. After the half, adjustments were made and the offensive played great. Also, NO TURNOVERS. Grade 9

    I: Improvement: Tannehill had no batted down passes. Again, they had NO TURNOVERS. Red Zone execution was much better...Grade 9

    E: Energy: I thought the team played hard again. The defense bore down in the red zone a few times by rallying to the ball. Special teams outside of one return played their asses off. O-line got in gear... Grade 9

    Two straight weeks I think the coaching staff was solid and had the team ready to play. No arguments here.
     
  25. iwastherein72

    iwastherein72 Well-Known Member

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    Second-half adjustments and great game management in the 4th Quarter are hallmarks of EXCELLENT coaching.

    I had to follow the game on NFL.com (drive/play chart) and I was absolutely in LOVE with how Philbin drained the last 11+ minutes of the game after the Raider FG. I was hoping for 3 first downs, get to 7 minutes left and a FG. What we got was a drive that was made for a great coach. Under 5 minute left, we were waiting 44 seconds between snaps and were in the red zone and I knew we had it in the bag with the FG just icing on the cake. And then we scored a TD. Just absolute MONEY there at the end. That's COACHING. We had not seen any of that yet because they were constantly behind in preseason.

    There will be other days not-so-much fun, but I firmly believe we have something with Philbin and with Tannehill.
     
  26. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    Game 3

    P: Professionalism: This is the first game I think the Fins got out-coached. I DO think the staff is playing with less than a full deck based on personnel. However, there were some spots the staff could have come up big. Also, leaving Bush in at the end of the half was not early that smart. With that said, the team handled the blitz well. I do like how the team attacked in the 2 minute drill at the end of the game. 6

    Improvement: Not sure how much the team improved today. I was happy with Tannehill fighting hard and his 2 minute drill. The pass pro was pretty good. Defensively, the Fins are not getting better in the back half. Again, maybe it is personnel. Special teams regressed today. Missed kicks. Penalties on the kick offs. Blowing the Tebow sneak. The team did punch back and forth with a rival. 6.

    Energy: The team battled for essentially 5 quarters. They did not give in at all. O-line played hard. While not perfect, the D does play hard. 8.
     
  27. Predaphin

    Predaphin Predator in the Water

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    ah the infamous PIE thread....

    My observation of the coaching staff this week....EPIC FAIL!
     
  28. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    Good analysis.
     
  29. GoonBoss

    GoonBoss Finheaven Templar Super Donator Donator

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    I think that's fair.

    The guys were fighting. You could tell.
     
  30. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    If I told you before the game we would have 200 yards rushing, we would hold them to 80 yards rushing and Sanchez would complete for 44% and have 2 INTs, what would you have guessed the score to be?
     
  31. Predaphin

    Predaphin Predator in the Water

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    Downright depressing.
     
  32. Jamaicankid21

    Jamaicankid21 A True Fan

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    Hard to say Phiblin got out-coached. If Carpenter hits that FG then we say Rex got out-coached or we just caught enough breaks to win?
     

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