Pat White, the deep ball and other options | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Pat White, the deep ball and other options

ckparrothead said:
Just remember that a "career backup" usually means the guy will find himself starting a fair number of football games. Otherwise he wouldn't stay a primary backup for long. Take a Sage Rosenfels as a for instance. People can't figure out whether he's a starter or a backup. That's the only way you end up a career backup like Sage has. That's the kind of future I could foresee for Pat White.

As for the Wildcat...I won't pretend it's an easy answer. What I'll say though is that the NFL and NCAA playbooks have been getting further and further apart at a very rapid pace the last 10-15 years. What we call "Wildcat" just means spread and/or option plays. Shotgun split back veer. Single wing. Triple option. Zone read. The NCAA has adopted these concepts to where they've become their bread and butter. As one coach recently said, 80 percent of the NCAA is that stuff right now.

I personally do not think that the NFL can continue to subsist on normal "pro" concepts while the NCAA diverges from them so strongly. That's my theory. It's just a theory. The NFL eats college prospects as cheap labor. Nowadays you hear everyone say, "Rookies have to be able to play quickly" and "you have to hit on your draft picks". In order to do that, you have to pick rookies whose skill sets match what you as a pro football team want to do. That gets harder and harder when 80 percent of the NCAA is filled with option and spread stuff. How many stud QB prospects come out nowadays with a bunch of experience dropping back from under center and throwing pro style routes? Few.

But that means there's a large segment of talent basically going untouched by the NFL simply because they're too reluctant to change their playbooks around.

Look at what Miami did with the Wildcat. They installed the thing mid-season, during a regular season practice schedule. An offense of nobodies and cast-offs embarrassed one of the league's leading defensive minds, one of the league's smartest defenses, with an offense that basically took two days of practice to install! You want to talk about low-hanging fruit? That's low-hanging fruit.

Franchise QBs and "blue goose number one WRs" (to borrow Jerry Reese's language) are more rare than ever...and for the QBs at least it seems, more necessary than ever. How long before the teams that don't have one get fed up with this league becoming a league of haves and have-nots at positions that are extremely hard to find, and turn a different direction?

That's what I think could start to happen in the NFL...and it won't subside until college defenses find an answer for all that spread and option stuff out there. It'll be like the 3-4 and 4-3 defenses. The 4-3 defenses reigned until 3-4 two-gap talent became cheap and ignored, and then teams that ran a 3-4 thrived on the advantage.



I know there's one out there of his drive against the Arizona Cardinals...and honestly, it was a pretty impressive drive.
Click to expand...

I don't know if he can be as good as a Rosenfels or a Wallace, I think his ceiling is of a backup type like those guys.

NE did adjust to the WC the 2nd game and Baltimore had no problems in either game. We'll see if it has staying power, obviously Miami thinks it does taking a QB for that system as high as they did.
 
FinsFan_In_Iraq said:
Henne was 19/37 233yards, 1td, and 1 pick. Definately not overly impressive, but he put his team in position to win that game. The FG was blocked. He didnt completely fall apart on the final drive and throw 3 passes into double coverage. Would have been 4, but Sanchez finally got picked on the third try.
Click to expand...

He played a 1AA defense.
 
nyjunc said:
I agree w/ alot of what you say but how did he crumble in the clutch against Or State? Is he not allowed to lose a game? White lost plenty in the weak BE.
Click to expand...

This isn't about losing the game. This is about coming through for your team in the clutch. Oregon State definitely took it to USC in that game. They had no fear, they played physical and they pressured Sanchez. But despite all of that, it came down to a drive at the very end of the game where USC was only down by 7 points and had plenty of time on the clock. USC had scored a touchdown early in the final quarter, and they seemed pumped and ready for a comeback. But then I believe penalties and mishaps de-railed the next drive, and then the USC offense just didn't recover. The defense is out there fighting for their championship bid, there's still plenty of time left on the clock, only down by 7 points, and a USC coach actually had to come to the bench where the receivers and Sanchez were looking all dejected, tell them to get their butts out of their seats and cheer on the defense...and get ready to try and win the game.

So when the defense does get them back the ball, Oregon State punts well and backs them to like their own 5 yard line, something like that. What came out of Sanchez at that moment with like three minutes left and down by only one score, wasn't even a valiant attempt. The body language was bad, and the throws were worse. He threw three passes and completed one of them. That completion was a busted coverage on a slant that could have really gone a long way, but Sanchez inaccurately threw it low and behind, and the receiver was forced to fall on it. The other two throws were forced into double coverage, both of them sailed high of Damian Williams. The first one was sailed high up the seam into double coverage and Sanchez was lucky there wasn't a safety in zone ready to pick up the errant ball. The second one was again to Damian Williams in double coverage up the other seam, and the ball sailed high, only this time there was a safety there ready to collect the errant throw, and he returned it to the door step of the end zone. That was game over. USC did have a really good kick return get them to mid-field on their next drive and Sanchez picked up some steam, got a TD, but there wasn't nearly enough time left on the clock to mount a two-score come from behind effort.

Watching that, that was youth and inexperience. He just didn't know what to do. He didn't know how to rally the troops. He felt the pressure and he couldn't hold himself up under the weight, let alone carry the offense too. I'm not trying to knock him, I'm just saying another 20 starts might have made the difference between crumbling under that weight and being a clutch leader.

White has more of a windup and a slower delivery which isn't good in the NFL. Every split second counts and you can see the ease w/ which Sanchez throws the football compared to White. Sanchez is much smoother w/ the football, no wasted movements. It's silly to compare these two since one is a running QB that throws while the other is more of a classic pocket passer. One is expected to be a franchise QB while the other a complimentary part, of course Sanchez should look alot better than White.
Click to expand...

Pat White's delivery is not the issue you make it seem. It's average for an NFL starter.
 
nyjunc said:
I don't know if he can be as good as a Rosenfels or a Wallace, I think his ceiling is of a backup type like those guys.

NE did adjust to the WC the 2nd game and Baltimore had no problems in either game. We'll see if it has staying power, obviously Miami thinks it does taking a QB for that system as high as they did.
Click to expand...

Baltimore had no issues with a ton of teams' running attacks. They shut most everyone down except the Giants. Everyone just makes a big deal of the Wildcat being shut down by them because they expect the Wildcat to be some magical formation that guarantees success regardless of opponent. There's no such thing.

As for New England in the second game, you would really only know this if you actually saw the plays, but mis-execution was the problem with the Wildcat against NE that day, not anything the NE defense did schematically. And what do I mean by mis-execution? Well, for one thing, Ricky Williams took a Wildcat hand-off from Ronnie Brown on the jet sweep, tripped over his own feet and fell straight to the ground, losing like 3-4 yards in the process. That goes down as the big bad NE defense "clobbering" the Wildcat, but in all actuality the blocking was developing fine and Ricky just fouled it up. The Wildcat still had gains of like 8 and 9 yards that day. They just screwed up the execution on a few of the plays and it brought the average way down.
 
ckparrothead said:
Baltimore had no issues with a ton of teams' running attacks. They shut most everyone down except the Giants. Everyone just makes a big deal of the Wildcat being shut down by them because they expect the Wildcat to be some magical formation that guarantees success regardless of opponent. There's no such thing.

As for New England in the second game, you would really only know this if you actually saw the plays, but mis-execution was the problem with the Wildcat against NE that day, not anything the NE defense did schematically. And what do I mean by mis-execution? Well, for one thing, Ricky Williams took a Wildcat hand-off from Ronnie Brown on the jet sweep, tripped over his own feet and fell straight to the ground, losing like 3-4 yards in the process. That goes down as the big bad NE defense "clobbering" the Wildcat, but in all actuality the blocking was developing fine and Ricky just fouled it up. The Wildcat still had gains of like 8 and 9 yards that day. They just screwed up the execution on a few of the plays and it brought the average way down.
Click to expand...


You sound like someone who watches alot of tape. I used to watch tons of tape, I have every Jet game on tape since 1990 plus a bunch of 80s games but unfortunately I am rarely home and I can't watch as closely as I used to.
 
If you really rip through Chad Henne video, what you'll find is a guy that throws the ball purely from an arm strength and accuracy perspective as well as anyone you'll see. The ball whistles. The spiral is tight. His shoulder aiming is good, his mechanics are good, the delivery point is good, his feet are good. The ball jumps off his hand. You'll also see a guy that reads the field pre-snap really well, and places the football (ball placement) exceptionally.

What doesn't he do? Never learned how to look off a defender. I'm not sure I ever saw him do it even once. What else? He's got lead feet, sometimes. He will absolutely take a sack trying to get the ball up the field. He also very rarely checks down to the easy gain. Some people would laud this but in the NFL, throwing in front of the first down marker with the right timing gets you a first down just as easily if not more so than throwing behind the first down marker. And you've got to learn that every yard counts. If it's 3rd & 17, you don't necessarily waste 12 yards trying to complete an impossible pass up the field when you could check it down to the intermediate area and pick up 12 yards of field position. Also, his performance in the clutch was good at times, not so good at other times. Spotty.
 
nyjunc said:
You sound like someone who watches alot of tape. I used to watch tons of tape, I have every Jet game on tape since 1990 plus a bunch of 80s games but unfortunately I am rarely home and I can't watch as closely as I used to.
Click to expand...

That and a good memory go a long way, lol. I fear the day when I'll have to give up paying so close attention to college and the NFL.
 
nyjunc said:
You sound like someone who watches alot of tape. I used to watch tons of tape, I have every Jet game on tape since 1990 plus a bunch of 80s games but unfortunately I am rarely home and I can't watch as closely as I used to.
Click to expand...

How could you come on this site as often as you do and not know that CK is locked in his wine cellar right now watching reels of game tape :lol:?
 
ckparrothead said:
If you really rip through Chad Henne video, what you'll find is a guy that throws the ball purely from an arm strength and accuracy perspective as well as anyone you'll see. The ball whistles. The spiral is tight. His shoulder aiming is good, his mechanics are good, the delivery point is good, his feet are good. The ball jumps off his hand. You'll also see a guy that reads the field pre-snap really well, and places the football (ball placement) exceptionally.

What doesn't he do? Never learned how to look off a defender. I'm not sure I ever saw him do it even once. What else? He's got lead feet, sometimes. He will absolutely take a sack trying to get the ball up the field. He also very rarely checks down to the easy gain. Some people would laud this but in the NFL, throwing in front of the first down marker with the right timing gets you a first down just as easily if not more so than throwing behind the first down marker. And you've got to learn that every yard counts. If it's 3rd & 17, you don't necessarily waste 12 yards trying to complete an impossible pass up the field when you could check it down to the intermediate area and pick up 12 yards of field position. Also, his performance in the clutch was good at times, not so good at other times. Spotty.
Click to expand...

I think he carries it a little low and I agree about his lead feet.

phinphan4life said:
How could you come on this site as often as you do and not know that CK is locked in his wine cellar right now watching reels of game tape :lol:?
Click to expand...

I deal w/ so many posters, it's hard to keep track sometimes.
 
ckparrothead said:
This isn't about losing the game. This is about coming through for your team in the clutch. Oregon State definitely took it to USC in that game.
Click to expand...

My wife's whole family are USC fans, so I watch a lot of USC games. Sanchez has never shown the ability to overcome a tough circumstance. He has an NFL arm, and he may succeed if he does not collapse mentally. He is fine with big town expectations, so I expect the NY media will not bother him. That is a plus. I am just not convinced that his teammates will want to go to battle with him. He really needed another year of college. I wish him luck; even though, my beloved 'Phins may pay the price.

Watching that, that was youth and inexperience. He just didn't know what to do. He didn't know how to rally the troops. He felt the pressure and he couldn't hold himself up under the weight, let alone carry the offense too. I'm not trying to knock him, I'm just saying another 20 starts might have made the difference between crumbling under that weight and being a clutch leader.
Click to expand...

I completely agree!
 
nyjunc said:
I can agree w/ career backup.

Is the wildcat here long term? I don't know about that. If it is he can be valuable.



I can't wait for the henne era to begin.

I tried to look up Chad Henne highlights on youtube but nothing came up. I would be interested to see more on hm. I haven't watched him play in 2 years and you forget liitle things over time so if there is a nice clip please post it.
Click to expand...


Here are some Henne clips from his bowl game in 2008. He can make all of the throws and he has a chance to be very good. He has size, toughness, he seems smart and disciplined, it all looks good to me. Zanchez as well- I was impressed by what I saw of him and I think that it was a very good trade and pickup of a starting, maybe franchise, QB. I particularly liked his delivery, arm strength, and from what I saw his accuracy was very good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uygjoeTs9rw
 
Here's the Senior Bowl 2008 highlights. Henne had two TDs during the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2laN7_enwQQ&feature=related

Has a big long TD to Lavelle Hawkins at 0:36, and a shorter progression TD to a pretty open Martin Rucker at 2:50.

Chad Henne would have gotten MVP in that game if not for the South's final drive and some heroics by Harry Douglas and Matt Forte. He did win North Offensive MVP. Was 5 of 9 for 64 yards and 2 TDs, 0 INTs.

Two years in a row Miami drafted a Senior Bowl MVP QB.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom