Penalties, Penalties, and More Penalties | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Penalties, Penalties, and More Penalties

Dolph N.Fan

Active Roster
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
33,348
Reaction score
35,894
Location
Columbus, OH
When is Gase going to start calling these players out for bad penalties?

Miami has 143 penalties on the season through 15 games. Only Seattle has more. New England, in case anyone is curious has the 2nd least penalties in the league.

41 of those penalties were pre-snap penalties.

Last season Miami had 158 penalties (46 of them pre-snap), again 2nd most in the league behind only Oakland.

Over 300 penalties in 2 years tells you Gase either doesn't know anything about discipline or just doesn't see penalties as an issue. Miami won't be going anywhere with 150 penalties a year under Gase.
 
I agree this is a major issue. I hope Gase is evaluated for this. We have crappy offensive linemen, so they will hold and have false starts. So its personnel too. We have no pass rush, so LBs and Das are forced to hold or interfere. So it's personnel too
 
When is Gase going to start calling these players out for bad penalties?

Miami has 143 penalties on the season through 15 games. Only Seattle has more. New England, in case anyone is curious has the 2nd least penalties in the league.

41 of those penalties were pre-snap penalties.

Last season Miami had 158 penalties (46 of them pre-snap), again 2nd most in the league behind only Oakland.

Over 300 penalties in 2 years tells you Gase either doesn't know anything about discipline or just doesn't see penalties as an issue. Miami won't be going anywhere with 150 penalties a year under Gase.

Definitely a problem.....but I'm fairly sure Gase knows a thing or two about both discipline and penalties being an issue. He definitely needs to clean this up. I have two thoughts on this...

1. We have a very young secondary and when you look at the amount of defensive holding penalties we have had, I think this is indicative of young players trying not to get beat. Hopefully, this gets cleaned up through experience and better coaching of the fundamentals.

2. Pre-snap offensive line penalties are a real problem...especially when you have an offense that struggles and needs to stay out of third and long situations. Our offensive line coaching was a disaster this year, we all know that story. But I also think that the QB, continuously running the play clock down to a second or two before snapping it is a problem as well. Our guys are in their set stances way too long and I believe this contributes to the problem.

Hopefully, we see improvement in both these areas in 2018

Merry Christmas
 
I would have to say there were a lot of poor officiating this year. I can't recall when we had so many bad calls each and every game.

With that said, however, I've always felt that penalties were a sign of players being overmatched. Either mentally and/or physically. Exception to that is Jarvis Landry which are often bone-headed over-aggressiveness.
 
NE being no w 2 is not a surprise. Seattle being 32nd is. I’m willing to bet that Seattle fans believe the penalty issue may be the difference of making the playoffs or not.

Whatever the issues are, Gase and the staff need to fix them. They get paid to coach fundamentals. Our guys don’t seem to be responding. Two years in a row we average 10 enforced penalties per game. Unacceptable. The staff needs to be held accountable for this.

Does anyone have the stats for our penalties under Philbin? I seem to recall we were bad as well. And what about after Dan Campbell took over and started coaching fundamentals till the cows came home? Curious if there is a trend here of “offensive gurus” not being focused enough on technique? Gase - clean this up.
 
I would have to say there were a lot of poor officiating this year. I can't recall when we had so many bad calls each and every game.

With that said, however, I've always felt that penalties were a sign of players being overmatched. Either mentally and/or physically. Exception to that is Jarvis Landry which are often bone-headed over-aggressiveness.
The state of officiating in the NFL is beyond atrocious. They need to simplify the rules, make the game easier to officiate and stop trying to ensure everything is perfect. It doesn’t work.
 
NE being no w 2 is not a surprise. Seattle being 32nd is. I’m willing to bet that Seattle fans believe the penalty issue may be the difference of making the playoffs or not.

Whatever the issues are, Gase and the staff need to fix them. They get paid to coach fundamentals. Our guys don’t seem to be responding. Two years in a row we average 10 enforced penalties per game. Unacceptable. The staff needs to be held accountable for this.

Does anyone have the stats for our penalties under Philbin? I seem to recall we were bad as well. And what about after Dan Campbell took over and started coaching fundamentals till the cows came home? Curious if there is a trend here of “offensive gurus” not being focused enough on technique? Gase - clean this up.
Under Philbin Miami was actually one of the least penalized teams. It was the only good thing about Philbin
 
Penalties under Philbin:

2012: 96 (22 pre snap) -4th least in league
2013: 76 (25 pre snap) -Least in the league
2014: 108 (39 pre snap)-3rd least in the league
*2015: 156 (56 pre snap)- 4th most in the league

*Philbin fired after week 4*
 
When is Gase going to start calling these players out for bad penalties?

Miami has 143 penalties on the season through 15 games. Only Seattle has more. New England, in case anyone is curious has the 2nd least penalties in the league.

41 of those penalties were pre-snap penalties.

Last season Miami had 158 penalties (46 of them pre-snap), again 2nd most in the league behind only Oakland.

Over 300 penalties in 2 years tells you Gase either doesn't know anything about discipline or just doesn't see penalties as an issue. Miami won't be going anywhere with 150 penalties a year under Gase.
Great point.

There are two successful schools of thought on this one.

A) Be a precise team and let the penalties help tilt the game in your favor when your opponent defeats himself, and

B) Play with strong emotion and channel that to get your players to give their best and create the most dominating version of your team.

I've always been a fan of A, which I always call the Don Shula approach. He was a harsh disciplinarian who required intelligence, rigid attention to detail, numerous repetitions, and exacting precision. His teams were the least penalized almost every year. If any of you recall the Thanksgiving game where it snowed in Dallas, it showed just how Don Shula outcoached Jimmy Johnson and stole a win in Dallas with the entire nation watching. Every Dolphin player was fully aware of the situation and the rules, had practiced following the rolling punt just far enough away from the ball to entice a Dallas player to attempt to jump on it, but just close enough to recover it if it squirted out. Leon Lett, a good player but not the sharpest or most aware of the rules, made a huge game-losing mistake trying to cover that punt, it squirted out, the well coached Dolphins pounced, recovered and ended up winning a game in which they were outperformed on the field. Except ... preparation and precision does matter.

With penalties, many are correctable. But it is which school of thought you choose. Jarvis Landry's penalties are mostly correctable, and he gets a lot for a WR. Wraping himself around the goal post ... yeah, correctable. Headhunting a safety, also correctable. But, if you reign him in too much, you lose his effusive exuberance. You lose his inspirational energy. You lose part of what makes Jarvis Landry great.

Along the OL, we've had a lot of injuries. We had a lot of players playing new positions. Each time a new OL comes in, there's a lot of things to think about, and they are much more likely to commit a pre-snap penalty. As they get adjusted to playing, they are also much more likely to commit a drive-killing holding penalty. The real solutions there are to require higher precision, and if a great athlete can't do it, you replace him with someone who can, or my preferred solution ... fix the dang OL with solid players who are durable and can be precise.

The defensive penalties are mostly choices. Our DL is fully focused on gap penetrating pass rushers ... that was a choice we made long ago and re-make every year. Those guys are going to get offsides penalties, that's just the nature of the quick-twitch approach of gap penetration. We can work on it, but having that hair-trigger release of that coiled up explosion is the basis of our DL scheme. That is fixed by removing aggressiveness, changing to a reactionary DL, or just changing our scheme entirely.

The pass interference penalties are not all that numerous actually. Given that we're trying to play a physical press-man scheme with young CB's, we're not getting an exorbitant amount of pass interference penalties. There is a learning curve, and our young CB's are making it ... but those penalties will never go away given our current scheme. We can and should reduce them, but with so many young CB's, it isn't too surprising.

Yes, there is some sloppiness we need to correct and the coaching staff needs to drill down on those concepts to let the players know it's not acceptable. But honestly, fixing the OL--if that ever gets accomplished--goes a long way to reducing that egregious penalty number. And by next year we should have closure on the Landry situation, so either those penalties disappear or we double-down on embracing his passion.
 
Definitely a problem.....but I'm fairly sure Gase knows a thing or two about both discipline and penalties being an issue. He definitely needs to clean this up. I have two thoughts on this...

1. We have a very young secondary and when you look at the amount of defensive holding penalties we have had, I think this is indicative of young players trying not to get beat. Hopefully, this gets cleaned up through experience and better coaching of the fundamentals.

2. Pre-snap offensive line penalties are a real problem...especially when you have an offense that struggles and needs to stay out of third and long situations. Our offensive line coaching was a disaster this year, we all know that story. But I also think that the QB, continuously running the play clock down to a second or two before snapping it is a problem as well. Our guys are in their set stances way too long and I believe this contributes to the problem.

Hopefully, we see improvement in both these areas in 2018

Merry Christmas
i agree with you on running the play clock down, it gives the defense the advantage of knowing when the snap has got to come , and causes the lineman to get antsy and rock
 
Great point.

There are two successful schools of thought on this one.

A) Be a precise team and let the penalties help tilt the game in your favor when your opponent defeats himself, and

B) Play with strong emotion and channel that to get your players to give their best and create the most dominating version of your team.
Seattle most likely falls under B while leading the league in penalties. And on defense they hold and interfere with a lot intentionally. A part of their game plan.
 
Great point.

There are two successful schools of thought on this one.

A) Be a precise team and let the penalties help tilt the game in your favor when your opponent defeats himself, and

B) Play with strong emotion and channel that to get your players to give their best and create the most dominating version of your team.

I've always been a fan of A, which I always call the Don Shula approach. He was a harsh disciplinarian who required intelligence, rigid attention to detail, numerous repetitions, and exacting precision. His teams were the least penalized almost every year. If any of you recall the Thanksgiving game where it snowed in Dallas, it showed just how Don Shula outcoached Jimmy Johnson and stole a win in Dallas with the entire nation watching. Every Dolphin player was fully aware of the situation and the rules, had practiced following the rolling punt just far enough away from the ball to entice a Dallas player to attempt to jump on it, but just close enough to recover it if it squirted out. Leon Lett, a good player but not the sharpest or most aware of the rules, made a huge game-losing mistake trying to cover that punt, it squirted out, the well coached Dolphins pounced, recovered and ended up winning a game in which they were outperformed on the field. Except ... preparation and precision does matter.

With penalties, many are correctable. But it is which school of thought you choose. Jarvis Landry's penalties are mostly correctable, and he gets a lot for a WR. Wraping himself around the goal post ... yeah, correctable. Headhunting a safety, also correctable. But, if you reign him in too much, you lose his effusive exuberance. You lose his inspirational energy. You lose part of what makes Jarvis Landry great.

Along the OL, we've had a lot of injuries. We had a lot of players playing new positions. Each time a new OL comes in, there's a lot of things to think about, and they are much more likely to commit a pre-snap penalty. As they get adjusted to playing, they are also much more likely to commit a drive-killing holding penalty. The real solutions there are to require higher precision, and if a great athlete can't do it, you replace him with someone who can, or my preferred solution ... fix the dang OL with solid players who are durable and can be precise.

The defensive penalties are mostly choices. Our DL is fully focused on gap penetrating pass rushers ... that was a choice we made long ago and re-make every year. Those guys are going to get offsides penalties, that's just the nature of the quick-twitch approach of gap penetration. We can work on it, but having that hair-trigger release of that coiled up explosion is the basis of our DL scheme. That is fixed by removing aggressiveness, changing to a reactionary DL, or just changing our scheme entirely.

The pass interference penalties are not all that numerous actually. Given that we're trying to play a physical press-man scheme with young CB's, we're not getting an exorbitant amount of pass interference penalties. There is a learning curve, and our young CB's are making it ... but those penalties will never go away given our current scheme. We can and should reduce them, but with so many young CB's, it isn't too surprising.

Yes, there is some sloppiness we need to correct and the coaching staff needs to drill down on those concepts to let the players know it's not acceptable. But honestly, fixing the OL--if that ever gets accomplished--goes a long way to reducing that egregious penalty number. And by next year we should have closure on the Landry situation, so either those penalties disappear or we double-down on embracing his passion.
Shula did outcouch and still a win vs JJ that Turkey Day. We had Steve DeBerg fresh off of the couch at QB and also Shula kept trusting his kicker to make FGs in those conditions while JJ did not and would go for it on 4th downs and turn it over. Was a great game.
 
Hopefully he recognizes it's a prob and it's being addressed, doesnt have to be public but needs to be done.
 
No doubt it has been a trend. I have said when it comes to the O-line that Pouncey not practicing could be part of the problem. He's the one that does the line calls and many times they don't seem to be on the same page

Ozzy rules!!
 
Back
Top Bottom