Philbin- Good Coach or Bad Coach

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Djavelin, Apr 15, 2014.

  1. Djavelin

    Djavelin Head Dolphin In This Pod Donator

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  2. D0lphan72

    D0lphan72 War... War never changes Donator

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    I will let this season decide his fate on my opinion.
     
  3. finfanaz

    finfanaz A True Fan

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    I'm pro-Philbin. Have been from early on. I think he'll continue to lead us in the right direction. Hopefully being teamed up with Hickey helps in that regard. However, this season is very important for Philbin and also Tanne on a side note. I'm confident at the end of this season the majority around here will be sold that we have our HC/QB of the future.
     
  4. Djavelin

    Djavelin Head Dolphin In This Pod Donator

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    I know we have seen flashes. RT looks to be our guy. We had the most sacks and still were 1 game from the playoffs. I want to see this team getting better,stronger and more united. PLAYOFSS OR BUST.
     
  5. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    Based on the information we have nobody can say one way or the other and anybody that says they can is full of ****.

    What we do know is Ireland was terrible. What effect does a terrible GM have on a teams record? Who knows.

    We also know Tannehill has been average at best his first 2 seasons, which is probably fair for a raw, rookie QB. Can you be expected to make the playoffs with an average QB? Who knows.

    But to the question can you be expected to make the playoffs with an average QB combined with a **** GM -- to that I would say it would take a great head coaching effort to overcome those factors.
     
  6. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    Neither good nor bad right now. He has had his problems, but he has also had some very bright moments. All the bullygate stuff is garbage in my opinion and is a joke to even use it against him as a reason to oust him. While the season results haven't been what we wanted his first two seasons, he earned and deserves a third year on the job.

    Last year's team should have made the playoffs. I am disappointed with how the final two games went and he and his staff deserve blame for that. But so do the players. At the same time, he handled the post-bullygate distraction very well and kept the team in the hunt. A lot of teams probably would have collapsed under that pressure, but he kept things together to the very end of the season. Still though, the end result wasn't good enough.

    The behind the scenes war between him and Ireland also played a role in the outcome of last season. Which is why I am more hopeful this season since Philbin and Hickey appear to be on the same page.

    I think Philbin can be a good head coach, maybe even a very good head coach. He is in the middle of the pack right now in the league but if he keeps developing Tannehill, this team can make strides this upcoming season. Philbin is a very smart man and is very loyal to his staff. His loyalty hurt him in regards to Sherman, but it makes him well respected amongst his fellow peers and his players.

    Philbin needs to win now though and I think he is capable of it. Big season for him.
     
  7. PHINSfan

    PHINSfan FinHeaven VIP

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    I agree...I also see him as a middle of the pack coach right now. This will be a big season for him where he demonstrates if he's going to be a good coach, or remain in the middle of the pack. I, as a dolphin's fan, wish him well.
     
  8. Casas9425

    Casas9425 A True Fan

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    The way the team played in those final two games is unacceptable. The playoffs were served up to Philbin on a platter only to watch his team quit on him on the field.
     
  9. GoonBoss

    GoonBoss Finheaven Templar Super Donator Donator

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    That's me too. I can see a plan working, unlike Cam......We'll see. He gets this year and if I
    see improvement, I'll be on his side. If I don't, I'm off the wagon.
     
  10. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    I'm pretty sure whether Philbin is considered good or average will correlate directly with Tannehill's performance in the coming years. If Tannehill can get to a 90+ passer rating on the season we'll be a perennial playoff team. If Tannehill stays in the low 80's Philbin will be considered a failure. But I suppose thats true for 90% of coaches in the league.
     
  11. KTOWNFINFAN

    KTOWNFINFAN Seasoned Veteran

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    No one can know how they feel about Philbin after two years as our HC, and if they think they do know how they feel about him they are full of **** ?? REALLY ?? But you know how you feel about Ireland?? LOL wow!! No control issues with you :rolleyes2:

    As for Philbin I feel like a lot of the others, this will be the final deciding year. I have to say there is a lot more to dislike than to like at this point. To come out after the bye week and lay an egg vs a division rival at home is completely unacceptable. Finishing off the season with two straight "win and your in" games and lose them both while looking unprepared is not something that gives me confidence that we have the right guy.

    I will let this year be the deciding factor but I have to admit he is paddling up stream. He has to show he can hold the team together a lot better than he did last year. The dolphins had the talent last year to be in the playoffs and we missed out. We had a locker room meltdown and some how the coach gets a pass on both. I'm not sure we got rid of all the problems, but I will support him for one more year. If we miss the playoffs this year, I want him OUT, no excuses!!!
     
  12. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    You think the jury is still out on Ireland?
     
  13. dabeastdabone

    dabeastdabone Seasoned Veteran

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    I don't/didn't want him fired but I will be keep my mind open to it as this season goes along.
     
  14. KTOWNFINFAN

    KTOWNFINFAN Seasoned Veteran

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    Nope, nor did it take me 2+ years to make my opinion. He is/was one of the worst drafting GMs around but understood the cap, and was one of the better GMs at negotiations. I didn't hate him, nor did I hate to see him go, but I can't yet say what we now have is any better. I can't see how Hickey could be any worse at drafting if he tried, but the free agents we have signed have not impressed me. Our most pressing need of the offseason was 3 OL and 1 or 2 LBs. We have signed 1 starting OL and no LBs. Shelly is a backup at best and I would have much rather had Monroe than Albert, but I will support Hickey until we have a little more to go on.

    Personally I felt that Philbin had more to do with the failures of last season than Ireland. We had plenty of talent to make a playoff run and seemed unprepared in the biggest games of the season. That is on the coach not the GM. I will be the first to say the talent was not great, and we could use an upgrade at the GM position, but I don't see how Philbin skated on the locker room meltdown, nor the last season crash and burn. But I also see that the best teams are the ones that don't change things around every season so I have no probelm with keeping Philbin, but only for one more year. He has to show more than he has so far or he has to go.
     
  15. thefranchisedef

    thefranchisedef A True Fan

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    He did a good job keeping his players focused during the Incognito-Martin shindig, but just doesn't know how to get extra out of his players. He reminds me of a manager, not a coach.
     
  16. BahamaFinFan78

    BahamaFinFan78 A True Fan

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    He may be a good coach, but he is not a great coach. Last season, after the Martin/Incognito fiasco, a great coach gets his team focused on the task at hand and gets them to avoid distration. What do we do? Come out and lay an egg against Tampa Bay. Their third string RB killed us. How many times have you seen us come out in the second half and outplay our opponents-not much. Usually it's the opposite; no halftime adjustment skills. The last two games were the dagger in the heart for me. You only have to win one game against two crappy opponents. We didn't just lose, we looked horrible doing it. That was it for me and I personally thought there should have been a clean house this offseason. Maybe he will improve; I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath.
     
  17. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth inside my DNA Finheaven VIP

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    I'm still not sure....those last two games hurt his "good coach" ranking, but the fact he won 8 games with the talent (or lack there of) he has also means something....I'm glad he is getting another season....I'm on the....if Tannehill improves, so will Philbin....
     
  18. BahamaFinFan78

    BahamaFinFan78 A True Fan

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    But if Tannehill becomes a great QB, it doesn't mean Philbin is any better of a coach. Any great QB can make a coach look good. Who wouldn't want to be Peyton Manning's offensive co-ordinator? Just get out of the way and wait for head coaching interviews to come.
     
  19. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth inside my DNA Finheaven VIP

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    That's 90% of the coaches in the NFL....they live and die by their QB play....
     
  20. GoonBoss

    GoonBoss Finheaven Templar Super Donator Donator

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    You understand that's pretty much how the world works, right?
     
  21. Pelorus Jack

    Pelorus Jack Well-Known Member

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    The other AFCE Head Coaches think he's just great...
     
  22. Zounds

    Zounds A True Fan Donator

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    We are bout to find out. He could hand pick his new OC, he got his coveted LT, and was more active in free agent signings. Philbin's success or failure this year will be tied to decisions he made directly.
     
  23. BahamaFinFan78

    BahamaFinFan78 A True Fan

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    Yes, I know great coaches look better with better QB play, but that still doesn't mean they ARE better coaches. We know Belichek is a good coach, because when he lost Brady, he used Cassel to get to a 11-5 record. Having Brady makes him look even better, but we can see how good he is without a great QB. A great QB makes you LOOK better, but it doesn't mean you are better.
     
  24. gofins60

    gofins60 A True Fan

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    Same here. Philbin's team had a bad habit of being unprepared at the start of games; it normally took until mid second quarter before they got anything going on offense. Then, they'd move the ball and score only to disappear again for the next few possessions. Yes, poor o-line play was also to blame, but the terrible playcalling and not playing to the players' strengths was ultimately Philbin's fault. Miami failed to make the playoffs because Philbin's offense had the uncanny ability to NOT score points! How many drives were stalled because they couldn't make a 3rd and short (sometimes with two tries)? A big, powerful FB would have made a huge difference, but Philbin said that his offense doesn't want/need a FB. Even Sherman stated in an interview that when the running game was effective and he wanted to continue running Philbin said no.

    Philbin is not Head Coach material. The fact that he's never been "the guy" anywhere at any level in his career says a lot about him.
     
  25. DDTDON

    DDTDON Seasoned Veteran

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    He is the coach pure and simple. I support him, until he isn't.
     
  26. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    My point still stands. If somebody says they can tell if the GM is good or bad days after his first draft then they are full of ****. In this one post you say you knew Ireland was garbage from day one but you also think gave us enough talent? If a GM gives us enough talent to be successful then he's a good GM. Don't be offended, its an internet forum where I'm sure at least half the posters are full of **** anyway. I mean we had one "QB expert" proclaiming Tannehill was on the cusp on being the next great one then mere months later saying we should cut our losses with him...
     
  27. jtoomuch

    jtoomuch Apalled and aghast Donator

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    I agree with this. The last two games were inexcusable and baffling. I want to support the coach but that is really difficult to overlook.
     
  28. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    Ryan Tannehill played two of his three worst performances of his career those last 2 games. And if you have a QB that needs to be "coached up" for big games then you don't have a QB.

    I cut Tannehill some slack because I believe the injury he suffered at the Bills was much worse than most realize but Philbin also deserves some slack because coaches rarely win when they get a sub 50 passer rating performance from their QB (I believe its less than 5% but I can't find the stat right now).
     
  29. truedolfan57

    truedolfan57 A True Fan

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    I love how some people blamed Sherman for the majority of the offensive failures, along with the oline, but now that he's gone, the finger pointing is on philbin. At this point, he's neither good nor bad. He's average.
     
  30. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    Yup. And you'll notice that every single personnel move being discussed right now is all Hickey, Hickey, Hickey. Philbin's name is never mentioned when discussing personnel moves in the spring. But by the end of the season it'll be all Philbin brought this guy in, Philbin was the one that got rid of that guy...
     
  31. KTOWNFINFAN

    KTOWNFINFAN Seasoned Veteran

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    Not trying/wanting to get in a back and forth with ya here but let me try this one more time. You stated "anyone who knows how they feel about PHILBIN is full of ****", although we have had 2 full years to decide. That was MY orignal point, we as other posters have the right to feel about someone the way we want. Heck there were those, myself included, already making judgements on Philbin during his first training camp when the HBO show was going on. Maybe I should have sent you a PM instead of making the point on an open thread, but I felt it was a bit intrusive and offensive to have someone tell me how long I have to wait to form an opinion. We have watched Philbin for 2 years, we should be able to know if we like him by now or not, and if not by now then when are we allowed to know if we like him? No big deal, but I thought it was worth bringing to your attention.

    I also never said Ireland was "garbage" at any point, and NEVER said I knew ANYTHING about him from day one. I did state that he was terrible at drafting players, and I think his record makes that clear. However for the record if I had been Ross I would have canned both Ireland and Philbin. If I thought I had to chose between firing Ireland OR Philbin, it would have been Philbin that I fired.

    You also say "if a GM gives us enough talent to be successful then he is a good GM". That I agree with but only if you also add the obvious. Having the talent to be successful and BEING successful are two different animals and that is where coaching comes in. Last year we had plenty of talent to be successful, but were not. To me that screams failure on the coaching staff, not the GM.
     
  32. KTOWNFINFAN

    KTOWNFINFAN Seasoned Veteran

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    Ahh, great point. This happens much too often here. Everyone attaches a player they like to their coach/GM, but if he fails then he was "really" brought in by the person they don't like. Those who hated Ireland did this weekly. If a player had a good game he was Ross's guy or Philbin's guy, but if he had a bad game then Ireland brought him in and should be fired for it.
     
  33. NY8123

    NY8123 Sophisticated Redneck Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    I have dubbed this the "No Excuses" year.

    Every single excuse should be or has been stripped away from this current front office and staff. I don't care if Hickey is in year one there are no excuses. It is playoffs or the tidy bowl. There is no more middle ground with me on this issue.
     
  34. BahamaFinFan78

    BahamaFinFan78 A True Fan

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    The problem is this year the coaching staff will have no excuses, while our GM will be given a pass.
     
  35. justdon

    justdon Well-Known Member

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    Simple we will all know after this season.I wish him well.
     
  36. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    Everybody has the right to feel however they want but I don't respect the opinion that Philbin will be a terrible coach based on a first impression from a reality show edit. Just like I don't respect the opinion of people that give an A++ grade to a draft just days after it happened. Ireland had many of "the greatest drafts ever" in May only to have some of those same people say it was the worst draft in franchise history 10 months later.
     
  37. phinasota

    phinasota Bleed Aqua

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    Yeah, and on this subject, who is the qb coach in denver? He was damn sure the 10% that got the most outta tebow. So not to kill your argument, but it definately falls more on the coach imo. Even the great qb's need to be told when their doing something wrong
     
  38. whizafriz

    whizafriz A True Fan

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    Not liking this season's setup. We're supposed to give Philbin a do-or-die sentence, yet:
    He's working with a first-time GM
    He just hired a new OC, a first-time NFL OC
    This is his QB's first year operating from a new OC in his football career.
    His O-Line, essentially the worst line in the NFL last year, will be featuring many new players that need to develop chemistry, building from scratch.

    I would say "Playoffs or Bust" is honestly a little too harsh. Who knows what else could happen: injuries, bad luck, or outside factors with the playoff spots could prevent us from getting in.
    What I would instead make my judgement on is:
    - Evaluate the "hunger" of the team coming off of BYE weeks and down the playoff stretch, since these were always moments of weakness.
    - Gauge how much better Tannehill becomes due to Lazor's coaching and offense, including connecting with Wallace.
    - Gauge the development of the O-Line. I think it will be bumpy at first, but hopefully not for long.
    - See how quickly he makes transitions and corrections when players/schemes are not executing from week to week.
    - Take note of the locker room and Philbin's presence in it, including how much he coaxes players to step up and take more leadership roles.
    - Zero scandals or distractions that could be prevented. (Normally this is a given, lol)
     
  39. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    Lucky for you and me I don't think it's playoffs or bust, I believe if we're in contention week 17 again Philbin and Hickey will be safe.
     
  40. PHAZINPHINZPHAN

    PHAZINPHINZPHAN Seasoned Veteran

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    He is an average coach which is worst than being good or bad. Keeps us in the middle leading us to mediocrity and crappy draft picks
     
  41. JTC111

    JTC111 Viva la resistance!!!

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    The author had to do an awful lot of work to try to make Philbin look good. So far, I'm both unimpressed and underwhelmed by Philbin (and that's coming from someone that wanted him). He has another year to convince us but I'm not especially hopeful (seen this movie too many times before). I'd very much like to be wrong about him but he's missing by a long shot for me so far.
     
  42. KTOWNFINFAN

    KTOWNFINFAN Seasoned Veteran

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    This is the NFL, every year you are gonna change one of the above. OCs, DCs, GMs new QB coaches new OL they are all moving parts and rarely all stay the same. That will not be considered and excuse for missing the playoffs. If we are 9-7 or worse I am pretty sure we will be getting a new coach next year, and that will be fine with me.
     
  43. Djavelin

    Djavelin Head Dolphin In This Pod Donator

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    He has to get this team to succeed. We have been mediocre for far to long. If Miami fails to make to post season again, the FO will be hard pressed to keep Joe. If he was like a fg away from making it i would think they keep him. If we have a **** storm like last year then he is gone. I just want to see the stupid, bone head things that cost us wins to be fixed. As well as the oline.
    He needs to learn from his mistakes and get better every game. So far its nothing to write home about.
     
  44. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin PowerHungryMo'fo

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    Philbin reminds me of an architect not a builder/contractor.
     
  45. Dolphins512

    Dolphins512 My Friends Call Me Bob Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Could go either way! I do agree, this is a pivotal season for Philbin. I'm hoping he is successful, but if not, I'm ready to move on.
     
  46. 100% Dolphins

    100% Dolphins Starter

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    Philbin needs to stop being so timid on the sideline. I know that man has testosterone flowing through his body, just waiting to see proof of it.

    Lets go Philbin, I want to see you succeed!
     
  47. Spesh

    Spesh #freespesh

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    Joe Philbin is a bad coach.

    Situations crop up for every team in the league, coaches are judged by how they handle them. Granted, Philbin's tenure has been marred by things others hadnt dealt with, but his handling of the situations has been atrocious. You dont want to blame him for the Incognito mess? Fair enough, i'll allow that. Why didnt Philbin know what was going on? Because when he asked that positions coach what was going on the coach lied to his face. When it came out, what did Philbin do about that blatant (and compromising) lie? Did he fire the coach? Suspend him? Dock his pay? How about raise his voice? To the best of my knowledge, he chose none of the above. Instead, Philbin kept him on for the rest of the season. And then proceeded to (successfully) fight for that coach to continue receiving paychecks for the next 2 years. Oh, and that position coaches unit was responsible for a historical awful performance. Cheers.
    Moving on, it was clear to everyone that Mike Sherman was a problem. His play calling was horrific and his inability to play into the strengths of our team cost us. Our damn quarterback leaked it the media that he had totally lost his faith in the man. How did Philbin handle this? By fighting tooth and nail against the owner to keep Sherman. Then, when interviewing general managers, he reportedly told them he could bench Tannehill. Brilliant priorities.

    That doesnt even cover his gameday performances, which are thoroughly average. He cant adapt or elevate the play of our players. When everything goes exactly according to the game plan, we will win. If Philbin has misjudged the other team or they do something unexpected, we are screwed. Ultimately Philbin will take an .500 roster and carve out a 8-8 season. He is completely dependent on the very players he is quick to throw under the bus. He isnt Jim Harbaugh, who will make his quarterbacks look great while breathing fire at anyone who even glances at "his guys" wrong.

    When everyone on our leadership council was being shown the door early in Philbin's tenure i didnt necessarily believe he was trying to censure the team. It might have been a coincidence. Guys like Long had issues and Dansby had a big contract. I was reserved and willing to let things play out. Now? Theres no doubt in my mind that Philbin considered speaking out to be threatening. He wants his players to toe the line. Yet coaches can apparently do whatever the **** they want and there are no consequences. If im a player in the locker room im only listening with half an ear. Why play my *** off and risk a career ending injury for this scrub? Do the bare minimum, collect my paycheck, and wait for the next staff. Id have that attitude because Philbin is a poor coach.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2014
  48. Tureo

    Tureo Seasoned Veteran

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    The fact that we even question if Philbin is a good coach in year 3 says it all. We've had 2 years to judge him and thus far he has been average. The consensus seems to be that he is average but he deserves a 3rd year. He has shown nothing that says that he is even remotely a good coach.
     
  49. Yessir

    Yessir Dolfan for Life Donator

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    I knew Philbin was a brutal coach right after loss to Buffalo, coming off the bye last season. I agree whole heartedly with Spesh.
     
  50. KTOWNFINFAN

    KTOWNFINFAN Seasoned Veteran

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    That pretty much did it for me too. I mean I was hoping for the best but really wasn't expecting much after that. And when we finish the season off by not showing up with the season on the line I have lost all faith. I really didn't think he would survive and really didn't think he should have. At this point I figure if we win it is more in spite of him rather than because of him.
     

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