Philbin vs Sparano?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by So Be, Apr 15, 2014.

  1. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Her's a thread I put up on VIP, with reasonable replies I do not expect here. However, I'm willing to take the hits to give posters something to post about in these VERY BORING times. Take your best shots. lol

    Sparano took a 1-15 team to 11-5, winning the division, and our first playoff in 7 years, tied fr the biggest turnaround in the NFL, with Penny having a great year. Then, it was two 7-9 seasons with Henne, before the Harbaugh mess, 4-9 before being fired.

    He had an antique as an OC, and a VG DC, did not get along with Ireland, and had limited talent.

    Philbin came in and went 7-9 and 8-8 with Tannehill, an antique at OC, and a good DC. He also did not get along with Ireland, and had his own mess with Bully Gate.

    Has either one proven to be better than the other so far?
     
  2. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    Yes.

    When Philbin gets good QB play his win% is as high as any of the best coaches in the league. When Sparano got good QB play his win% was as low as the worst head coaches in the league. /thread
     
  3. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Never knew that. Where did it come from?
     
  4. Patrick_Bateman

    Patrick_Bateman Rookie

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    Short answer is NO. I'm not a Philbin fan and felt he should've been swept out with everybody else, but he has this year to prove to me (and any other doubters of his) that he has what it takes to be a successful head coach. Hopefully he is up to the challenge otherwise he's just another in a long line of bad hires.
     
  5. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    So far, I don't see much of a difference between the two, which can change this year. However, I think I would have preferred Sparano to instill some fire in the team the last two games of last year. We had none.
     
  6. SkapePhin

    SkapePhin Rump Shaker Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Unless you provide us with some data to back this up, I am calling shenanigans. The ONLY year he had consistent QB play was 2008, the year the Dolphins won the division. His 2nd season here Pennington got off to a rough start as his weak arm caught up to him, then he was injured in Week 5 or so and Henne came in. Henne played OK, but outside of the Jets MNF game, he never had what anyone could call a great performance. Henne was either average, or bad.

    Tannehill, thus far, has been leaps and bounds better than Henne at any point in his career and much more consistent. If Sparano had Tannehill all those years, with a balanced running attack, I think Sparano very well may have guided the Dolphins to the playoffs again.
     
  7. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    In the clear afterlight reflected through the rear view mirror, it was less Sparano and more Noodle Arm who was responsible for the epic turnaround. I've also long been suspicious that in that 08 season, Sparano was coaching with Parcells through a transmitter in his ear cuz by year 2, he looked totally lost out there during game day. Beyond that, the ST and DC coaches would have been coaching through his tenure if not for 2 public humiliations of their squads and the team on the nationally televised stage. And then there's faulting his offense for not executing Henning's plays which were so predictable the opposing defenses were laughing that they could predict 3 out of every 4. And if he was such an outstanding coach that one year, why didn't he do a better job countering the Ravens 8 in the box defenses against his QB with proven limitations vs Top 10 scoring Ds.

    Beyond that, Sparano's arrow was down in 09/10 and further in 11 while Philbin has improved one game each year despite a raw rookie QB, a porous OL, a schizoid running game that can't block for crap either and the preseason and in season injuries of two vital receivers who demonstrated chemistry with the QB.

    IMO, Philbin gets the nod... it ain't even a horse race.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2014
  8. Patrick_Bateman

    Patrick_Bateman Rookie

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    Yeah, the way the team finished in particular left a very bad taste in my mouth
     
  9. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    Its a project I'm working on.

    Sparano won 64% of games when his QB had a passer rating of 88+. Compare that with a few coaches I consider bad like: Norv Turner won at 72%, Jason Garrett wins at 59%, and Mike Shanahan with the redskins 63%. For good coaches Belichick is at 87% (over the past 5 season, much higher all time), Jim Harbaugh in the 90's, Sean Payton is 90% (but Brees only won 7 of 10 the year Payton was suspended). And Joe Philbin wins at 93% when his QBs have a PR of 88 or higher.
     
  10. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    To show how good Belichick was when Brady had a PR of 88+ they won 59 of 60 their first 7 seasons together, they've fallen off a bit since then but still win at a very high percentage.
     
  11. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    Philbin only lost one game when Tannehill played well enough to win, he's 13 and 1 when his QBs play well (PR 88+) so I'm not sure where the great Tony Sparano would have done so much more with Tannehill. Unless you think Sparano's QB development is leaps and bounds better than Philbin, but I think Henne, buttfumble, Tebow and a few Oakland QBs would disagree with you. Most of Sparano's developed QBs end up on the street by the time he's done with them...
     
  12. JamesBW43

    JamesBW43 You're standing on my neck Finheaven VIP

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    All I can say with certainty is that Sparano made a lot of stupid decisions on the field. Philbin's on the field decisions have been much better so far.
     
  13. Zounds

    Zounds A True Fan Donator

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    Whata great thread idea....cant wait for the Sherman vs Henning thread...


    :tubes:
     
  14. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth inside my DNA Finheaven VIP

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    Very interesting.....can't wait to see the finished results
     
  15. whizafriz

    whizafriz A True Fan

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    I think Philbin is a high-potential coach that under-performed and made a poor effort getting his guys riled up and hungry. His blind trust in his staff doomed him. He was able to coach well in some tough games against strong opponents, but in trusting his staff no matter what, the team also played down to weaker opponents levels when things went awry.

    Conversely, Sparano was a locker-room guy that could keep the guys hungry, but had little going on up top in the thinktank and seemed like he was getting outcoached by the week. His kneejerk personnel changes made it obvious he was clueless.

    Long-term thinking, I would take Philbin any day of the week. His plan can be solid if enough pieces fall in place and he starts to be more proactive. He's already started to with the slight fire under his seat, getting rid of Sherman, etc.
     
  16. Namor

    Namor Pro Bowler Finheaven VIP

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    For me,the jury is still out on Philbin...but,I hope we are shooting for something more than just being better than Sparano!!!!
    Being a little better than Sparano,to me is like being the tallest midget.....We deserve much more.
     
  17. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    Don't hold your breath, its probably years away because even a 2 season sample is much too small. The theory is good coaches should win at a high percentage when their QB plays well, its kind of a coaching rating system. One interesting result I've found so far is Marvin Lewis wins at a higher percentage than I would have guessed, I think he may be an example of a good coach mired with bad QBs over the years.

    I can't believe Garrett hasn't been fired, everything about him screams terrible coach from game management to his body language on the sideline then you couple that with his pathetic win percentage and its just mind boggling that he still has a job. I guess Jerry Jones likes having a yes man as his coach.
     
  18. DuderinoN703

    DuderinoN703 I can get you a toe Finheaven VIP Donator

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    If Sparano had the ability to win those 2 games at the end of last year due to his firing people up, how do you explain him going 7-9 twice and 4-9 before being fired?
     
  19. jvw

    jvw Starter

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    Out of his ***....Sparano had one yr with good QB play and the team went to the playoffs, if Sparano had RT at QB we would be a playoff team.....The D would be better (at least the LB and DL would be) and ST would be better.....Sparano was building a strong OL, good running game, and if he had a QB would have had a descent TE and good WR....his D coordinators were top 5 guys whose D stopped the run, tackled well and was physical......Sparano made some mistakes but he was undermined by his GM then by the owner....then lost the respect from his team.....Philbin took over the team, changed the players, changed the style and the only thing good that's come from it is RT....The Oline is worse, the running game is poor, still looking for a real TE ( though the rookie showed promise last yr, excited to see his development this yr)
    On the D his DL is good with two possibly 3 pass rushers, can't stop the run, can't cover TE and the secondary is much improved, Sparano issue with the secondary was he wasn't afraid to play rookies back there...something Philbin refuses to do.....

    If I was owner of a team and had to pick a HC and could only choose between these two, I would hire Sparano.....
     
  20. jvw

    jvw Starter

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    This is a great example of why stats only tell some of the story......Sparano was playing with Henne who could not throw the ball down field and when he did he threw int...so they used the check down were he threw to backs coming out of the back field and slant routes to big WR.....that helped his QB rating but once he got in the redzone he was useless....the team couldn't score....they kicked FG.....once you lose confidence in your QB in the redzone (Henne had some rough games early throwing INT in the redzone) the coach got conservative down there......if you watch the games, the team played better under Sparano, if he had a QB the team he and Ireland assembled would be in the playoffs....now RT is very good in the redzone, when he gets down there the play calling is more aggressive which amounted to more TD....that's why I say put that guy behind Sparano OL and running game and give him Sparano Defense and ST and we are in the playoffs......
     
  21. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Donator

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    no offense but I hope to god you don't have enough money to buy the Fins, or any of the pro teams I root for...
     
  22. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    But, that formula was a winner with the noodle at the helm

    Sparano and his coaching staff ruined what chance Henne had, once they brought in Penny and put him under Penny limp wing.
    While both are gone, one still matters on Sundays here and there, the other is pumping his fist as a positional know nothing at a irrelevant landing spot in the NFL. The Black Hole of NFL Sundays, where gang members and the trash of society mingle to cheer on their pathetic franchise.
     
  23. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    To my eyes Sparano coached like a baboon and the stats back that perception up. I don't know where you guys are getting this Sparano would have been a God with Tannehill stuff from, like I said Philbin is 13-1 when he gets good QB play which is a 93% win percentage. Even when Sparano had Pennington he was still only 8-3 when Pennington played well which is 73%. The diference is Pennington gave Sparano 11 good games for the season and had a passer rating of 100+ on the season, it would take a bad coaching job to not make the playoffs when your QB plays to 100+ PR.
     
  24. jvw

    jvw Starter

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    No offense taken, so I take it that you would take Philbin.....team under performed in the two most critical games of his HC career, had a national bullying scandal on his watch, allowed Richie to be voted in as a Team leader, made a great decision on picking RT in the draft then allowed Martin to be his starting LT knowing he had head issues which resulted in RT almost getting killed, traded or cut all of the real leaders on the team and then had the nerve to be upset when Dungy called him out for his lack of leadership......I liked Philbin his first yr, was ok with him during the second until all the behind the scenes crap came out and we got the chance to see his decision making skills......I hope he can turn it around in his 3rd yr.......
     
  25. jvw

    jvw Starter

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    He was 8-3 with Pennington and a team that was 1-15 the previous yr, that team had holes and if it wasn't for the Wild Cat they would have been a 500 ball team....Pennington QB rating was great because he didn't turn the ball over not because he was putting up big numbers in the passing game....he threw about 220 yrd a game with his weak arm, that team was 28th in scoring with Pennington 100 QBR...they won that yr because of the running game and defense and Pennington didn't turn the ball over.....

    I don't think Sparano is a god by no means (with or without RT), but he is better than Philbin and this stage of Philbin career.......
     
  26. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    I wonder why Ireland was fired, was it just because he screwed up one too many coffee orders? It seems silly to be paying a guy millions of dollars a year to be responsible for nothing but according to some that must have been the case.
     
  27. jvw

    jvw Starter

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    I disagree, Sparano, his staff and the fans gave Henne every chance possible to get it done and he couldn't.....that's on Henne......

    ---------- Post added at 06:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:02 PM ----------

    How did Ireland get in the discussion?
     
  28. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    You're blaming Philbin for things I would consider Ireland responsible for like finding a suitable LT.
     
  29. Casas9425

    Casas9425 A True Fan

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    They both suck.
     
  30. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    In reality at this point Sparano had proven to be better based on his year one. You know though as fans many people only see things as rosy in the now.
    People take all credit away from a player or a coach and put it elsewhere when they are gone.
    I don't think either coach is really a good head coach
     
  31. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Donator

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    I wouldn't take either TBH, but Philbin knows about football, he`s been a successful OC and he was somewhat qualified to get a HC opportunity. Sparano on the other hand had no business even getting an interview nevermind getting the fcking gig... First year was a fluke with the wildcat, which wasn't even his idea and any success he had died with the cat once the league caught up. He then got hired as an OC for the Jets and that lasted 1 freaking season before he got canned for total ineptitude... Not saying I think Philbin is beyond mediocre at this point, just that Sparano is that fcking bad...
     
  32. Adam Strange

    Adam Strange Question Authority Finheaven VIP

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    I'm certainly not going to defend the notion that Philbin is a good-- much less great-- coach since he's shown squat. But this idea of Sparano as a master motivator-- laughable.

    Where were his master motivational skills in 2009 when his team choked down the stretch and finished behind the Jets, a team that had been swept by the Dolphins that year? How about the way he had them ready to play at home in 2010-- losing two prime time games at home against the Jets and Pats in consecutive weeks? Of course, that pales in comparison to the way that team ended the season: instead of a playoff push, another pathetic stumble to the finish line, losing 4 out of the last 5 including home losses to the powerhouse Browns, Lions, and Bills. And he sure had the team ready to start the season in 2011, right?

    Philbin may or may not succeed here, but that doesn't make Sparano any better in hindsight. If Philbin fails, it just means Ross made another poor decision, like when he threw away the 2011 season by bringing Sparano back.
     
  33. RkyDaMan34

    RkyDaMan34 Well-Known Member

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    Now if Philbin can perfect the fist pump we could get a few more field goals out of Sturgis. .:woot:
     
  34. Daytona Fin

    Daytona Fin Playoffs Moderator Finheaven VIP

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  35. HoneyB

    HoneyB A True Fan

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    I agree with this post.

    I've said this for years, that Pennington put together the offense himself, with bubblegum and spit.

    Which is fine, to scrape by for a year until your rookies produce in their second (or third) year. But by then, you'd better have built an offense, and you'd better have a young QB to take over after Pennington. We didn't do that. Then we doubled down on stupidity by installing the wildcat. We went from the 1st pick in the draft, plummeting to the 25th pick. After that, we picked up Pat White. Really, Pat White? Couldn't Henne have used a premium TE? Or an O lineman instead of picking them out of the trash of FA? This is the problem with not having an identity and not putting your players in a position to succeed. If you want ground and pound, then make a great O line and don't replace Ronnie Brown with Daniel Thomas and think that's good enough.

    We're on the cusp of doing it again. We're on the opposite spectrum, we're finesse, and so far we've been unable to create the kind of speedy, dynamic offense Philbin promised. Finish the job and build the d*mn thing, already.

    As far as coaching goes, Philbin is an upgrade from Sparano, but that's not saying much. What's the point in arguing over who is worse.
     
  36. LANGER72

    LANGER72 A True Fan

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    Philbin is a better game manager. For that reason alone he stands above Meatball. How many times did Sparano let the clock wind down before calling time outs? I am surprised my hair grew back.
    Also, apart from losing the 3 games to the bills and Jets (which winning those would have given us an 11-5 record and playoff berth), teams that we should have beaten, this team has played well against some good competition.
    The team record has also improved over the two seasons despite questionable decisions with the personal by the Ireland.
    Philbin.
     
  37. SkapePhin

    SkapePhin Rump Shaker Finheaven VIP Donator

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    You do realize Philbin wasn't REALLY an OC, right? He was OC in title only, he never called plays. His role in GB was to schedule things, which happens to be the only real thing he brings to the table. Sparano actually had more play calling experience than Philbin had.

    I'm not claiming Sparano was some kind of great coach, but seeing people claim Philbin is head and shoulders above him as a HC is laughable to me. The same people who are defending Philbin today will be the ones calling him a loser once he is an ex coach a year or two from now...
     
  38. Patrick_Bateman

    Patrick_Bateman Rookie

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    In addition to actually calling plays for a season in Dallas, Sparano was also assistant HC to Parcells so he had more preparation for a HC gig than an OC that didn't even call his own plays. That said, Sparano was a failure as a head coach so don't take this as me supporting him
     
  39. GoonBoss

    GoonBoss Finheaven Templar Super Donator Donator

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    It's not much of a thread, but better than most you put up.

    Sparano wasn't much of a coach, but he's doing exactly what I said
    he'd to, and, is getting re-circulated. He's in. He's kissed by
    Tuna.

    Philbin doesn't fist pump. He's not a "Leader of men" like Sparano.
    He doesn't fist pump. He's not a meathead and he doesn't get too high
    or too low.
     
  40. Phantom

    Phantom Phantom Donator

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    They both stink !!!
     

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