Phins Pass Rush- A Closer Look

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by So Be, Jan 6, 2013.

  1. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    For those undecided on where a pass rusher is on our list of needs, here's some info to help decide.

    Cam Wake rushed the QB 559 times last year. He had 17 sacks, 23 QB hits, and 47 QB hurries. He did this while all opposing teams completely focused on stopping him, having little regard on any other pass rusher.

    Pee Wee Odrick rushed 566 times, with 6 sacks, 10 hits, and 21 hurries. I saw some of those sacks and hits caused by Wake flushing the QB to him. NOT a productive year, and not ever average.

    Vernon rushed the QB 289 times, with 3 sacks, 7 hits, and 11 hurries. He was about the same as Odrick in limited play as a rookie still learning, close vs the run, and did well in coverage, also limited.

    When you combine the stats of Odrick and Vernon, they look pretty good but, when you look at the number of pass rushes it took, NOT so good.

    Starks rushed the QB 488 times, with 4 sacks, 11 hits, and 21 hurries. His play really fell off but, anyone who has lost their Mom could understand him not being focused.

    Burnett rushed the QB 115 times, with 2 sacks, 6 hits, and 7 hurries. Not bad for an OLB, who rarely get to the QB.

    Now for the very intriguing silent one, in Koa Misi. He rushed the QB 141 times, with 6 sacks, 2 hits, and 6 hurries in only 13 games. To put that in a sack perspective for 4-3 OLB's, Von Miller is in a class by himself with 19 sacks. Denver's Woodyard and Titan's Ayers were second with 7, and then there was Misi with 6. Thing is the other 3 had 300-400 more snaps to get their sacks.

    This poses an interesting question for this year. JT was quoted in saying that Misi was going to be a VG pass rusher, and I am not one to ague with him. Depending on how things shake out in this off season, could could a Misi/Vernon combo be an answer at DE. while adding another OLB?
     
  2. Marino420TD

    Marino420TD Seasoned Veteran

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    I think we need to continue to draft pass rushers. You can never have too many. What pass rusher have we drafted in the last 5 years? Vernon, maybe, and he is still TBD. In a league that is all about throwing the football, we can't rely on Vernon/Misi getting better. We really should draft a DE with pass rushing skills in the early rounds this year. Our DB's would look a lot better with more consistent pressure on the QB.
     
  3. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 The D will RushYa, Like Moscow Donator

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    I would really like to draft Dion Jordan and Tank Carradine this year
     
  4. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Dolphins had 44 sacks last year, #10 in the NFL but, to me, that is somewhat misleading.
     
  5. King Dingaling

    King Dingaling Well-Known Member

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    We need a true DE with speed and size. Michael Johnson should be our top FA target on defense. He's 6'7" 270 and has been developing into one of the better 4-3 ends in football. We could definitely use his 52 tackles and 12 sacks. Plus he turns 26 in February. I like Odrick but he is to slow against Tackles and playing out of position. He would be more productive at DT full time. I like Starks a lot but we need Playmakers and drafted Odrick to start. I'm hoping Starks will sign for a 2yr 12 million like Soliai did this year but he'll get more on the open market. I Wish him well
     
  6. mrhankey81701

    mrhankey81701 A True Fan

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    Koa misi was a nice surprise last year played much better at the 4-3 olb
     
  7. fishbanger

    fishbanger Phin fan since 1970!

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    Ireland should draft either a DE pass rusher or CB that is a baller in the first round. Turnovers and explosive plays is what is needed. Vernon can continue to rotate in at DE to spell gus until he becomes a feared plaer which he is not at this time.
     
  8. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Agreed. Misi played more like his rookie year than last season. Have to think that if he had 3 more games, in the way he was being used in the second half, that he would have maybe 8 sacks on limited pass rushes. As we all know, he is a Beast vs the run as well.
     
  9. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    gotta remember though, most non-1st rounders are not expected to be all world as rookies. JT took a couple years to put up 10+ sacks.
     
  10. Dfan06

    Dfan06 Seasoned Veteran

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    I have always thought that we should let Starks walk, sign a pass rusher and move Odrick to DT.

    Cam Wake/Paul Solial/Jared Odrick/Michael Johnson
    Kevin Burnett Karlos Dansby Koa Misi

    Tyrann Mathieu(could be a high reward) Chris Clemons/Rashad Jones Jonathan Banks(1st round)
     
  11. DolphanB

    DolphanB Scout Team

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    Odrick is not a speed rushing DE, he is penetrating DT who gained a large percentage of his sacks and hurries while subbing in for Starks on passing downs.

    Let Stark walk, move Odrick inside and draft a true DE like Mingo at #12.

    THAT would be a scary front four.
     
  12. oasis

    oasis Lost in the fog

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    Our pass rush just needs to be more consistent, which means we need more players that can consistently win one-on-one matchups (i.e., pass rush TALENT). Either it's on and we get a sack or it's completely off and our secondary gets roasted. I'd much rather have a pass rush that is consistently breathing down the QB's neck and not getting any actual sacks. If it's not consistent it's almost meaningless.
     
  13. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Gotta do a little research before posting. Odrick took Soliai's place, and his sacks were from DE.
     
  14. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    I'm curious why you spend so much time talking about guys that don't really rush the passer and aren't supposed to, like Burnett and Misi. Misi also had 3.5 sacks, not six.
     
  15. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Yeah, those extra few minutes almost killed me, and could well have cost me drinking another half of beer. Point well taken. JK/LOL

    I listed pass rushers, and those who had some success aside from the standard ones. This is what the team has done. Sorry to not consult you on what is acceptable but, I really don't care. :)

    With 900 posts in 6 years, you seem to have a whole lot more time on your hands now. I might suggest thinking more and posting less. JMO
     
  16. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    Uh, no.
     
  17. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Uh, can you be a little more vague? :)
     
  18. ph0enyx

    ph0enyx Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any stats about Odrick from the DT spot as opposed to DE? And for what it is worth PFF said we were the best team in the league at stopping rushes off right tackle and right end.
     
  19. ph0enyx

    ph0enyx Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of Koa and Vernon both getting practice at that same outside linebacker spot in base and the 3-3-5 package while rotating in on the d line a little more than last season. They both seem like good role players to me and if one goes down the other can take his place.
     
  20. moley

    moley Well-Known Member

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    i thought at least 2/3rds of odrich sacks came from the dt spot , i maybe mistaken?
     
  21. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Wake had 15 sacks so not sure how your other numbers stack up
     
  22. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    The majority if his sacks were from DT.
     
  23. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    For those wondering about where Odrick's sacks came from, I went and checked all 5.0 of them (six instances, four full sacks and two half sacks). Here's what I found:

    Week 3 vs Jets (0.5) – right defensive tackle(split with Vernon at RDE)

    Week 4 at Cardinals (1.0) – right defensive tackle

    Week 5 at Bengals (.5) – right defensive end(pressure from left side pushed Dalton into Odrick)

    Week 12 vs Seahawks (1.0) – right defensive end

    Week 14 at 49ers (1.0) – left defensive tackle

    Week 15 vs Jaguars (1.0) – left defensive tackle


    Conclusion: 3.5 of Odrick's five sacks (four of six instances) came from defensive tackle. The other two came from defensive end in a heavy front with Starks, Soliai and Wake next to him from nearest to farthest. Not only that, but one of the sacks from defensive end was really more luck than pass-rushing skill, as pressure from Starks and Soliai pushed Dalton into Odrick.

    Essentially, this shows what we should already know--Odrick is playing out of position at defensive end and would move inside to defensive tackle if the Dolphins were to let Starks walk or part ways with Soliai.
     
  24. Robby

    Robby Rookie

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    Why not put Misi at DE and Vernon at OLB?
     
  25. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    In our current 4-3 scheme, DEs rush the passer and OLBs really do not. Misi failed miserably as a pass rusher and has really only shown himself to be good at playing SOLB in the 4-3, stuffing the run. Vernon, at least for now, is still supposed to rush the passer and develop there, which is why he'd stay at DE.
     
  26. 2413fanphins

    2413fanphins A True Fan

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    Interesting. Nice job on the research. Thats good info to know.
     
  27. Chance29

    Chance29 Rookie

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    I can't wait to see how Vernon develops after a full offseason in a nfl program. I think this kid could be a stud for us
     
  28. moley

    moley Well-Known Member

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    exactly what i thought ! on where he got his sacks !!, i know odrich is a ready made replacement for starks, and be cheaper, but i have doubts he can hold up against the run in a 4-3 and rush the passer from a dt spot in nickel and dime all season long!! , yes he did have the most snap count amongst def lineman this year , but i still have doubts ! big ones ! without starks and mcDaniel [who had a shocker of a year] our one time strength def line will become a weakness !
     
  29. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    I love Starks, but it doesn't make sense to pay him right now. McDaniel is useless.
     
  30. Exuro

    Exuro Well-Known Member

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    The OP might be using PFF's stats, which I think can be different from offiical box scores and records.

    Southbeach, where are you pulling these numbers from?
     
  31. 2413fanphins

    2413fanphins A True Fan

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    We need to be adressing some future needs in the upcoming draft as well as immediate needs. We need to have some foresight at the.DT position, as well as others.... but we need to eventually get to the point san fran is at, where we arent drafting every year with having immediate needs to fill.
     

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