Post Game Thoughts - @Carolina

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by J. David Wannyheimer, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. Dolph N.Fan

    Dolph N.Fan A True Fan

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    Matt Moore should have been the starter from day one. He should have had all the preseason reps. I’m not staying Moore is the answer but I doubt Miami gets shutout nearly 3 times if Moore was the starter from day one. Cutler was a waste of money and a waste of reps. What does that say to have Moore as your back up all these years and the minute Tannehill goes down you bypass Moore for ****ty Cutler? But damn give Matt Moore a chance. I think Moore would have Miami at least 5-4 or even 6-3 right now.
     
  2. Tupac Shakur

    Tupac Shakur troublesome Finheaven VIP Donator

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    players have too much distraction in miami.. just hard to field a team of 53 without 15-25 guys that dont give a crap and would rather go party and chase females. these guys are multi millionaires, famous, and in a city with endless temptation. i just dont see it ever happening for the dolphins. the best teams are the hungriest. therefore they play the smartest because they know it will afford them the best chance of cashing in. its really always about the money. honestly i think our chances would be better with a team of rookie salaries and vet minimums.
     
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  3. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Exactly. McCaffery causes fits against every D and, like it or not, Cam is quite good at the read option. No, they aren't world beaters, but this is an O that's hot and cold. 3 points one week, 34 the next. Not a top O but they have weapons.
     
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  4. Casas9425

    Casas9425 A True Fan

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    The offense sucks, Jay Cutler sucks
     
  5. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    Short week ????
     
  6. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Was speaking of the Matt Moore start on the road at Baltimore.
     
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  7. Sarnics13

    Sarnics13 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    This D is too difficult to watch. I can't even fathom how a professional NFL D can be embarrassed so regularly. What a joke, especially wroth so much talent on the roster. I can't remember missing a minute of a game in years and I've turned it off in the 3rd quarter three weeks in a row.

    Gase needs to give up play calling and be the head coach or only be the OC. He is not capable of doing both effectively. This team is never prepared and is far too regularly caught on their heels. He knows the limitations he is dealing with yet doesn't appear capable of scheming or planning around them. I'm a miami dolphin for life, but this season is absolutely done.
     
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  8. zucca

    zucca Well-Known Member

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    Yea, good for him. He avoids sacks because he doesn't want to get hit. It's self preservation. He could care less whether he turns that little scramble into a big play. He thinks his job is done when he escapes the initial rush.Obviously, the OL plays into this. Just a bad match for Cutler with this line. Tannehill for all his supposed warts managed to put lipstick on a pig. He covered for a lot of issues, like it or not.
     
  9. Ray R

    Ray R Active Member

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    You have identified the biggest problem in re-creating a competitive team!

    It takes time to get replacements and train them. Guys just out of college seldom play lights out their first year, and when they do its because most of the rest of the team is already functional. Veterans are often moving past their prime when they go to another team and don't always relate well to a new teams plan. I anticipated a lot of player turnover for the first three years of Gases tenure. Because I'm most interested in watching this franchise develop into a constant competitor for the playoffs, I have less of a problem with the occasional disasters and don't get too blinded by our momentary successes (well, maybe just a little).

    This game was disappointing to me. I felt the offense improved its play and the defense had some success at stopping the inside runs and had its problems in second half adjustments publicly abused. I am still optimistic. I know a lot of our current top players won't be here in 2 years, but I believe their replacements will all be more reliable and a few may be better players. This is the cost for developing a franchise instead of just patching a bunch of holes with whoever is available.

    I want to tell all you posters that this has been one of the better threads I have seen on this forum. Not as much over-emotional rants and some well thought out analysis- both critical and positive. I'd welcome more of this kind of posting.
     
  10. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins

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    I was thinking the same thing. You have a chance to go to halftime down by 3 and make the game about the second half. Instead low percentage chance backfires and turns the game. Hopefully Gase learns from that miscue. And Carolina had all 3 timeouts if we failed to get a first down. Should have been thinking about winding clock after defense made stand on previous series. If you get a good gain then go into attack mode. Not on first play.
     
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  11. Lionstone

    Lionstone A True Fan

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    If the Ajayi Trade really sucked the life out of this team, then they are acting like a bunch of spoiled teenagers. I believe you are way off on that idea. The offense has been better without Ajayi the last two games, and we have another pick next year. There is definitely a problem with the defense. Alonso is definitely being exposed and has done a very poor job of open field tackling, but there is more than that going wrong with the defense.
     
  12. Lionstone

    Lionstone A True Fan

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    I cannot say their performance was fine, but I agree the performance was an improvement over previous weeks.
     
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  13. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    the problems haven't changed with ajayi gone...when we came out in that 5 wr look to start the game and basically what we are doing now is spreading out the opposition and playing a ton of 5 man or extra tight end protects which forces 2 things...first that the qb id coverage correctly pre snap which cutler checked every box on and 2nd that the qb execute in the passing game with correctly placed balls and throws that lead to rac

    of which he failed miserably on...

    problems the same thing it was with ajayi we just have shifted into even more emphasis on the qb and the qb has come up goose eggs...

    but at least we learned one thing yesterday while the qb execution hopped out of a trash can those 3 wrs as a unit are the best thing this team has going for it ...they should not break up that trio this offseason...let tanny play with those kids
     
  14. BigChief

    BigChief Scout Team

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    Matt Moore stinks. Its our defense that is the issue.
     
  15. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I don't see how you can say that the Ajayi trade hurt the team the last two weeks. I agree that Ajayi was a good runner and if he gets his head on straight, that trade will wind up being very good value for Philly, which is ready to compete for a championship now and can benefit a lot from what he brings to the table...

    But in the last two games after dumping Ajayi, we've essentially had two of our best offensive performances of the season. The offense was efficient and fairly productive against the Raiders, and it actually moved the ball and scored points against the best defense in the NFL. We've been better in the passing game and -- weirdly enough -- in rushing efficiency, too. Our big problem vs the Panthers last night was not that we traded Ajayi, but rather that the Panthers are just a better football team. Top shelf defense and an offense that has finally started to click? Watch out. That's a top four or five team in the League.


    Devante Parker might never be a superstar, but I think he has shown enough that I'm comfortable in saying that he will be a high quality #1 NFL wide receiver if he can just stay healthy.
     
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  16. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase

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    I still think DVP can be a superstar, He's damn good and will only be better with a qb who can get him the ball consistently and accurately
     
  17. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    if they don't do something to get a better rb position lead wise there's gonna be a ton of pressure on the qb to execute at the very high level...the 2016 last 8 games he played tannehill level
     
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  18. Travis34

    Travis34 chea Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Hopefully we draft one...

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/running-back/

    not that enticing
     
  19. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

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    The Ajayi trade softened the team. It's the old deal about contrast or lack of contrast. When I was a kid the NFL was very run oriented and there were major upsets all the time. That's when the phrase Any Given Sunday showed up and was featured on NFL Films. Teams were physical on both sides of the ball and the ones with weaker quarterbacks didn't kid themselves and essentially forfeit their chances by throwing the ball all over the field.

    I loved that era. Always will. It was incredible the Dolphins went unbeaten in that era, of all eras. It was certainly more unthinkable then than today, despite two fewer games. More than half your games were within the division in that era and there was no such thing as a bye week, or a week off for the top two seeded teams in the playoffs. I've never as upset or emotional as the vast majority of Dolphin fans these days because those early '70s teams will always be the true Dolphins to me. This stuff is like the bad sequel.

    Last night I thought the Dolphins had a decent chance to be competitive. For all the raves about the Panthers they entered the game with a point differential of +9, or something like that. YPPA Differential of +.2. That combo is Crowd all the way.

    Then the Dolphins opened the game in 5 wide with an empty set. Nope, this game is not going to be close. I sunk immediately as reality set in. We're a cupcake. Hoops described it well earlier in this thread, that the Ajaji trade places more emphasis on the quarterback. That's the last place these Dolphins need to be. I don't think Gase has any clue regarding things like that. Our quarterback is throwing off his back foot while being swarmed from both sides and averaging 5 yards per attempt. Gruden all but laughed when Landry's stats were shown. He's correct to say he's never heard of a receiver averaging 7 yards per catch. Neither have I. Gase's underneath approach relies on teams playing soft coverage on wideouts and laying off the backs. Somehow the Jets cooperated in the second half, with cornerbacks playing 8 yards deep and allowing our receivers to do whatever they wanted. Last week Oakland made the dump off game look far better than it really is by playing soft and cautious on those plays. You won't get that often, not with a passing game of this caliber. Carolina properly attacked our offense, just like those '70s powers when they sensed blood from the rare example of an overmatched opponent masochistically deciding to throw the ball time and again instead of ball control and field position. When a finesse offense is battered it exposes the entire team...offense and defense. Your identity is as a weakling.

    The early Buffalo and Pittsburgh games stood out last season because we actually asserted ourselves from a physical standpoint. Ajayi rambled with disdain. It was so awesome to behold. So rare, post-Csonka. Sure it was situationally advantaged but there was foundational opportunity there, to blend it with lethal downfield throws.

    Gase seems to think his schemes are birthrighted to defeat the league. Same thing Charlie Weis thought. Guys like that need freak quarterbacks.
     
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  20. dirkey

    dirkey FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I was thinking similarly last night. But I've reflected a bit on it - Gase has been taking a lot of flak for being too cautious, not adventurous enough. Then he goes for it, it backfires, and he's lambasted.

    Surely it's Cutler who should be taking the lions share of the blame here? Surely when the play is called, there are progressions he has to go through. He doesn't have to throw to his first progression, when he's in double coverage. Maybe the call was OK ish. The execution is what was the problem in my opinion.
     
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  21. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Often appears Cutler has HIS receiver picked out pre-snap and NOTHING changes his mind.
     
  22. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    story of our season in terms of the qb
     
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  23. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins

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    It's not that I have a problem trying to score with 45 seconds. Just the first play needs to be conservative, a completion that runs the clock or a run that forces Carolina to make a decision on whether they want to use their timeouts and try to stop us. If the conservative play breaks for a first down then you aren't backed up and you have a better chance to move into scoring position without the huge risk we took.
     
  24. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Cutler's coverage reads seem to be fine. What's killing him is the way the ball comes out of his hand.
     
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  25. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    that's not double coverage either it's cover 2 the honey hole is between the corner and the safety

    what you can't do is eye bang it from the snap though and let a instinctive and aware lb like kuechly follow the qbs eyes from the center of the field right under it...he doesn't do that Thomas catches that ball we gain 20 yards save our timout even and we are on the 40 plus with 40 seconds left and 3 time outs

    qb fail...is it a tough one for cutler sure but all that head and eye discipline I talk about til the cows come home well you saw it and paid for it last night...he gets away with most of it cause of his arm or at least he used to...those days are long over
     
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  26. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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    It seemed a little better in the Raider game and then this again- I don't get it, its like Jekyll and Hydeish heck even sometimes within a game or drive. I'm not sure if that week off helped him for the Raider game or what the story is. His footwork always sucks but somehow the ball placement was a little better in the Raider game-even the first SD game.

    This has nothing to do with the quality of defense either from week to week it's Cutler vs Cutler's play- week to week.
     
  27. Sirspud

    Sirspud Pro Bowler

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    All those saying that the Ajayi trade didn't hurt the team, I don't really agree. Yes the passing game has looked marginally effective the last two weeks, and Drake has had a few nice runs, but a lot of the "improvement" is based on being way less predictable without Ajayi. It was just so painfully obvious when we were going to be running the ball with him much of the year. Our gameplan was running him into a brickwall for much of the first half and then pass pass pass when we got behind. The opponent knew when we were going to run, knew when we were going to pass, and the playcalls weren't all that great either. Without Ajayi in the game, we don't have a RB on the roster capable or worth getting 25 carries a game. We've been much more balanced and less predictable.

    But the impact from the Ajayi trade is psychological. Players were having a hard time buying in on offense with Gase giving the job uncontested to a guy who showed clearly that he sucked and that he would limit the potential of everybody there but Devante Parker, who hasn't necessarily been helped all that much either by Cutler just wanting to force him the ball repeatedly early in the season even when he was double covered. Still the defense was playing hard every week for a while, which is why up until yesterday we didn't have a losing record. Now they just look done. The offense looked like a fire was lit under them for a little while against the Raiders, but effort only goes so far. Damien Williams always runs hard and unfortunately a fair amount of times that's right into a defender since he has poor vision. Julius Thomas is trying his best but he looks like the slowest player on the field, including the lineman. Cutler might give a crap, but he still has the worst fundamentals I've ever seen from a "starter" and I saw Chad Pennington throw passes with more zip. This team has tried hard and failed, they don't have the talent anymore. They know that, and they are done. They also know that they are in this position because of a coach who WANTED this noodle armed hack at QB and couldn't get anything out of a sometimes dominating talent so he shipped him away. Though it's hard to believe when we see Kiko Alonso out of position all game, they aren't entirely stupid.
     
  28. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    he'd throw a whole lot more picks if not for his coverage reads

    that's the only thing that's keeping this titanic afloat

    well that and gase limits the qb exposure as a play caller
     
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  29. oasis

    oasis Lost in the fog

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    I just don't understand why we couldn't have let Moore and Doughty/Fales march us quickly into the offseason. We're going to miss that $10M, and Gase is going to miss one of his nine lives that he lost on Cutler.
     
  30. Mabdul Doobakus

    Mabdul Doobakus Well-Known Member

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    No. I watched him play and he was terrible like he has been all season. The INT was one of many bad or ineffective throws. He doesn't even have that many INTs this season (especially for Cutler) and he's been terrible anyway. That one throw is really not why I'm saying he was terrible. He's terrible because he can't make any throws at all downfield. Any pass more than 15 yards is wildly inaccurate and lacking in velocity.

    The defense was terrible too. These things do not have to be mutually exclusive.
     
  31. dirkey

    dirkey FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Out of interest, did you watch the game? I did. The stat line is meaningless. He was abysmal. Did you see how far off he was repeatedly with some of his throws? Good God. Commentators couldn't even tell who he was passing to at times.

    You quote time of possession - that's on the offense. Not the defense. It's up to the offense to keep hold of the ball, and build some drives. It's really very simplistic to state that they put up 21 points on the number 1 defense etc. 7 of those points came in complete and utter garbage time. Don't even know how many Carolina key starters were still on the field at that point. And half of them were probably strolling around.

    The game completely and utterly turned on the pick. D had just put up a big stand, as they've been doing all year. And then they turn around and instantly see one of the most bone headed picks of the last while .. I think it was just the final straw for some of them,the heart went out of them.

    The O-Line was actually giving Cutler quite a bit of time last night, so that wasn't the problem.

    Bear in mind, I have not been on Cutler too much this year, and consistently been bashing the OL to my mate, but this wasn't on them. The game hinged on Cutler. He was dismal.
     
  32. GreenMts

    GreenMts Seasoned Veteran

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    Given we were getting blown out I don't think you can make this kind of evaluation. D doesn't play the same when lead is so wide a margin.

    Yep, Mr Consistency found a way to undermine better play by our piecemeal OL.
     
  33. Austin Tatious

    Austin Tatious Starter

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    1. Let's be honest, last night's game was about as expected.
    2. I like how Carolina is constructed. They had fired their GM, Dave Gettleman. I think he has a good eye for building a team. I'd be interested in him, but he is abrasive. He supposedly has horrible bed side manor with players, and they detested him. He got rid of Josh Norman without compensation in his prime and with bizarre timing where he did not have a replacement. Franchise legend Steve Smith was disrespected on his way out. But, as far as building a roster, he'd be a massive upgrade. I like the physical team he has built. Stud linebackers. We treat linebacker as an afterthought.
    3. Ju'Wuan James missing at right tackle was a non-issue and that is telling. I didn't notice any bit of a damn difference without him. It's not moving the needle there unless you have some hapless sad sack like Clabo or some of the cast offs we had there prior to James. I don't see him as worth $9 M. In a salary cap regime, you can use that money more wisely. If he takes 5 years for $32 million I'd keep him. That's probably more realistic. If not, Eric Smith (who has some nasty to him) and Jesse Davis could compete for right tackle and backup.
    4. Young corners usually take time to develop. It's not a position where you normally walk in and excel right away. Xavien Howard is not a finished product yet. He's taking his lumps now, but let's see how he improves.
    5. Cordrea Tankerlsey, however, has been a big surprise. I like how competitive he is. He looks really good out there with tight coverage, good hips, competitive attitude, and willingness to tackle.
    6. Julius Thomas is a straight up stiff. He can't move laterally or with quickness at all and hence lacks athleticism.
    7. Speaking of poor agility, Kiko played better earlier in the season, but that was just a terrible performance. Holy smokes was that bad football in every way imaginable. He couldn't cover, runners blew by him like he was not there, etc. The Pats will put a bullseye on Kiko. They will try to get Burkhead or another RB or TE on him all day unless we change it up. Overall, our underneath coverage is awful.
    8. TJ McDonald was cracking heads all over the place. I like the toughness and physicality he brought.
    9. I don't care what hollow stats Jay Cutler had. He missed open targets and was wild.
    10. The whole argument that football players cannot function in Miami because it is a party place and has hot women is laughable. Tell that to Manny Fernandez and his buddies. The fact is, if you love football, you thrive anywhere. Ed Reed, Michael Irvin, Ray Lewis, these types of winners would have a killer instinct no matter where they are. Miami may need more of those guys. It's not related to how nice South Florida is.
    11. Reshad Jones was not as bad as Kiko, but we needed more out of him. Where the hell was he on some of those long runs?
    12. The defensive ends looked poor against the run too.
    13. Cam Wake has been asleep for awhile. You have to take advantage of that right tackle.
    14. Ted Larsen may have been an upgrade but it's not as if he's some stud. He seemed to help stabilize Tunsil. As disappointing as Tunsil is, he did have a nice block on the Drake run. Gase has vouched for Tunsil in the sense that Tunsil wants to be good. Let's hope that's right. Realistically, let's see if he can get stronger in the off season and if we see improvement at LT from him. I think we focus on upgrading over Bushrod and Pouncey at the least.
    15. Man, is Drake explosive. The guy has a hell of a burst. His quick acceleration is something else.
    16. l like Landry, but his production is not commensurate with top 5 receiver money. If he wants that, we will need another solution in the middle of the field. Maybe a Mark Andrews in the draft.
    17. I do think we need to find Parker and Stills more. Parker is maligned but he can make plays. Stills is really slippery. This is a missed opportunity. Instead of all these high volume screens, let these guys make more plays, early and often. Too often we look at these guys in garbage time. The stats don't support it but we can have a scary receiver corps that can give defenses fits.
    18. Bobby McCain is underappreciated. You don't have a boundary to protect you when you are covering the slot. He's exposed on all sides and trying to guard quick, usually savvy guys. He's improving and is doing a tough job. People only notice him when he gets beat. He's out there competing.
    19. This team needs an infusion of toughness at interior offensive line and linebacker, a legit TE, an alpha running back, etc. This will require multiple drafts even if they hit. We need to stop wasting money and cap room on free agents who become sedentary after they get paid.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  34. dolfan91

    dolfan91 Starter Donator

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    GREAT POST!!!
     
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  35. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Not too much disagreement. For now, Gase seems to praise Tunsil, Tannehill, and Williams. Say what you want, but they'll be back as starters. I agree on James. I get JT is seen as a receiving threat, but there has to be a TE somewhere who can run routes, catch, and spell 'block.' At some point someone will start a thread on who Miami should keep/jettison. I predict a LOT of keepers. I don't think there is a lack of talent; I think it's the arrival of 'who cares.'
     
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  36. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Attention, site admins: Please bring back the Post of the Day feature.

    I wish I had one to give this man.
     
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  37. lurking

    lurking FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Parker was 1on1 on the opposite side with no safty help and he never even looked that way. Not even pre-snap
     
  38. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    Thanks man!

    I missed the game and was interested in how Jesse Davis played.
     
    D0lphan72 likes this.
  39. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    story of our season

    [​IMG]
     
  40. Tupac Shakur

    Tupac Shakur troublesome Finheaven VIP Donator

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    you make a lot of good points in your post and i appreciated your perspective.

    on this however, i had to respond because i made this point earlier in the thread.

    this argument about ed reed and so forth carries weight in college, but not the pros. these are grown men with lots of money and they'll do what they please. football is the ultimate team game. if you have 10 bad apples you are doomed.

    it even extends to the coaching staff. (forester).

    the only way to combat it is a superman at quarterback who demands respect and hard work because you don’t want to let him down, and his ability is such that it can overcome shortcomings. or, a superman at head coach that does the same.

    this is what gase was referring to in his press conference a few weeks ago when he said it starts with our best players having to take it home and own it.

    yes temptation exists everywhere but it’s amplified times 100 in miami. very different than seattle, denver, boston, pittsburgh, or some of the other recent successful franchises.

    i just think this will be an unwinnable battle unless we get that qb like a manning or brady that can demand hard work on and off the field.
     

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