Question For CK And Other Draft Guru's: 2012 Draft Pass Rushers

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by zodiak, Nov 23, 2011.

  1. zodiak

    zodiak Starter

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    Moving away from the QB position for now Im curious what players should be we looking at in terms of Pass Rushers?

    what OLB and DE(that project to OLB) are you focusing on?

    Thanks.
     
  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I've developed a really strong affinity for Courtney Upshaw. I think he's an animal. Slimm can probably expound upon him more than I can as he's a Bama nut and watches every single one of their games without fail, but the more I watch of Upshaw, the more I love about him. Very violent hand use, good acceleration, strong as an ox, and he moves well with good balance. And he's got something you just can't put your finger on that is the ability to perform athletic feats in the right moments. If you could put him opposite Cam Wake I think you'd be doing just fine, and Koa Misi could rotate with the two depending on situation and what you need to accomplish.

    Aside from him, we're talking about more of a 4-3 defense then I like Cam Johnson a lot.

    If you're getting deeper into the Draft then I think Slimm and I both like and have talked about Jake Bequette.
     
  3. Austin Tatious

    Austin Tatious Starter

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    Jarvis Jones, 6'3, 245, out of Georgia has been a menacing pass rusher as well. He transferred to GA from Southern Cal and is a major talent.

    The problem is that he is only a redshirt sophomore and has stated he is coming back to school. Its still early but he bears watching in 2012 or, more likely, 2013.
     
  4. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    cam johnson of uva??? when will you guys ever learn about these virginia pass rushers...all that sintim love round here and now cam johnson...meh...i've seen cams every game and i'm not very impressed with him at the next level...guy i do like on that d and i think is underrated and will be a solid 34 end is matt conrath...he's in the chris canty mold
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Clint Sintim was not a very good NFL linebacker coming out of Al Groh's 3-4 defense, so Cam Johnson must not be a very good Defensive End coming out of Jim Reid's 4-3 defense?

    I don't really follow that logic.
     
  6. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    they were both viewed as pass rushers at the next level as draft prospects...3-4 4-3 doesn't matter...pass rushers...and neither one gets or got me all that excited...for the record though i like cam more than i liked clint...never understood what people were so high on with him
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Michael Haynes and Tamba Hali were both considered pass rushers. Did Michael Haynes' non-success have any bearing whatsoever on whether Tamba Hali should have been considered a good prospect?
     
  8. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i see what you're getting at...just cause a kid went to the same school he should still be judged on his own merit...i get it...i'm just sayin nobody here watches more uva than me...i think i'm the only uva fan on this board can't say i blame anyone either cause til this season we've been dreadful but i would think that if cam had such redeeming qualities as an edge rusher 4-3 end i would have picked up on it by now...i would think...i mean i could understand a mid round pick there but not a top 50 one...not to me at least

    i think if you're gonna have to use a pick on cam johnson in the same relative territory you would a courtney upshaw (who doesn't wow with athleticism or explosion imo) than i'd just rather pass on johnson and use the pick somewhere else...
     
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Didn't realize you were such a diehard UVA guy.

    I don't consider Cam Johnson and Courtney Upshaw to be the same type of player. I think Cam is bigger, more suited to be a stay at home End type of player that rushes the passer. He had a really excellent game against Brandon Washington of the Miami Hurricanes. Cam was playing with an injury in that game, so I'm told. Washington is probably a guard at the next level but he's a very highly regarded player and the injured Cam Johnson dragged him all over the place. Really good hand use at every level regardless of what he's doing, excellent balance, stays on his feet, stays square, shows powerful hands, nice low pad level, the flexibility, hand use and balance combination make him a really good pass rusher. He drew double teams from the guard a lot during the game because Brandon Washington, good as he is, couldn't be expected to handle Cam. What I love is that he doesn't just free himself on the initial move, though he can do that too, either with an outside rush or an inside move. He keeps working and using his hands and body to get the offensive tackle's momentum and weight working against him until he's free. Great motor. Long arms. Shows an easy and natural burst with his steps, retraces with ease. Keeps his head up on the play and reacts with the ball. The balance reminds me of Dexter Davis from Arizona State who made an impression in limited time with the Seahawks last year but has spent this year on injured reserve, except Johnson is bigger and stronger than Davis and will have a more natural home along the DL.

    I dunno, think maybe you should take a closer peek at him some time. Very good player.
     
  10. MiamiDolfan85

    MiamiDolfan85 DA M.I.A IS WHERE I STAY

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    If we're talking pass rushers,you can't start the discussion without Vinny Curry(11 sacks on the year) and West Virginia' Bruce Irvin(12 sacks)...both are expected to make the transition to OLB
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Actually I'm not a big fan of either, truth be told. Vinny Curry looks to me to be really stiff and slow, and Bruce Irvin too small, not much strength/power.
     
  12. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase

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    Give me Burfict. I truly think his game can translate to Mike in a 3-4 and be a pass rushing menace from the inside.
     
  13. Smith21

    Smith21 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Silly wanna be gm's *

    Nice read though.. better than this qb tapk
     
  14. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    agreed...although i have seen evidence of a lethal first step burst and explosion...and thats always a big plus...but he looks tiny and gets engulfed by tackles too much for my liking

    as for cam johnson i guess i need to take a more in depth look...

    oh and the hoos in my username is short for wahoos...which is a uva nickname...
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    One of the five greatest mysteries of Finheaven...solved. :)

    Here's Cam Johnson's performance against the Canes. I think it's pretty much every snap so it's not like it's cherry picked. It's a good cross-section of what I like about him.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqiEROuemJc
     
  16. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    This. I actually think he might be better suited as a pass rusher.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Burfict should be a good blitzer at the next level. He's got closing burst like anyone you'll ever see. But he's also smart and knows when to give up on a rush and try and be useful other ways, like when he snagged Matt Barkley's ill fated throw out of the sky when they faced one another.

    I don't see him having that much trouble whether you're in a 3-4 or a 4-3, to be honest. Either way he has to make sure he studies his @ss off at the next level, and he has to stop getting stupid penalties. I don't think I've ever seen a more penalized player. Ever.
     
  18. Valandui

    Valandui Lumberjack Batman Donator

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    What are the other four?
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    They're a mystery. ;)
     
  20. justdev7

    justdev7 Rookie

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    I think Brandon Jenkins from Florida State is the best looking pass rusher in this class. The guy has really long arms, really solid strength and great acceleration. See for yourself.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS9L9_CT_DY
     
  21. Valandui

    Valandui Lumberjack Batman Donator

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    So one of the mysteries is what the mysteries actually are?
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Correct.
     
  23. Valandui

    Valandui Lumberjack Batman Donator

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    Consider my mind blown, sir.
     
  24. mfish41

    mfish41 It is what it is Donator

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    Brandon Jenkins. I was at FSU when he was there and watched a lot of him, he can bring it.
     
  25. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    jenkins does have some explosive qualities...he was flashing to me last week against uva...not very impressed with what i saw from bequette today...
     
  26. WitheringPlant

    WitheringPlant Seasoned Veteran

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    Not true. Go Hoos tomorrow. Scott will be packed.
     
  27. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    well i stand corrected...i don't know if va will beat tech tomorrow but i think i can say with a straight face this is the first time in a very long time as in almost a decade where we had a real shot...

    looking forward to it...
     
  28. RealDriscoll

    RealDriscoll Still Perfect.. and You're Not.

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    I am going to agree with CK on Upshaw. I think he is the best 34 outside linebacker prospect in the draft. The thing that I like is that he makes plays on the big stage. He has had a productive 2011 campaign (7.5 sacks, 1 INT) and he got to the quarterback against Florida and LSU and in Bama's win against the Florida Gators he also took an interception to the house. Two teams I see Upshaw really drawing interest from are the Chargers and the Jets.

    Another pass rusher I am keen on is Whitney Mercilus out of Illinois. Mercilus will be able to either a 43 or 34 defense at the next level and has great size sitting at 6"4, 265 lbs. He has racked up 14.5 sacks thus far in the 2011 season. Mercilus is only a junior so it's no lock that he declares but if he does he is a top 45 pick without question.

    Ronnell Lewis out of Oklahoma is another player I really like as a pass rusher. Doesn't possess the best size and his numbers don't jump off the charts at you but the guy is a good player. Teams like the Packers or Patriots will have their eye on this player come April.
     
  29. greasyObnoxious

    greasyObnoxious I love lamp Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Mercilus is buyer beware for me. only one year of production. on top of that, i don't think he's fluid enough to be a OLB. he's strictly a 4-3 DE in my book
     
  30. g1n0c1d3

    g1n0c1d3 Active Member

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    For the pass rushing position I think a lot depends on who's running the show. If Ireland is still around, you have to think he's going to stick to the size requirements that BP always has for his OLBs (6'3" at the absolute minimum height, 250+) so that eliminates guys like Curry, Irvin, Jarvis Jones, Ronnell Lewis, and even Courtney Upshaw. Now Upshaw is my top 34 OLB in this class as well but we won't be in position to draft him as his value lies in the late teens/early 20s anyway.

    Some guys that fit the size requirements that would be available on day 2/3 that I think we should look at are Andre Branch, Whitney Mercilus (JR), Nick Perry (JR), Alex Okafor (JR), and Shea McClellin. Now if we make the move to 4-3, I'm also a fan of Cam Johnson in terms of overall talent, at some point you have to question why his production and consistency aren't what they should be, should be interesting how the medical works out given the recent sickle cell trait thing that came out. I like Bequette as well. Some other mid-late rounders I like are Jack Crawford, Vince Browne, and Frank Alexander.
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I'm with you there. I think Mercilus is overrated. I was just having a short twitter conversation with Rob Rang about he, Cam Johnson and Vinny Curry last week. We agreed that Mercilus looks overrated, that Vinny Curry looks slow and stiff and Rob brought up that he also disappeared during important stretches of games, and we both really like Cam Johnson and aren't phased by lack of numbers.
     
  32. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    yeah i don't think upshaws in play for miami...i think he falls in the teens early 20's...and i just don't see a whole lot of stand up edge pass rush talent in this draft to get excited about...if its me i go into the free agency period looking to supplement my pass rush at olb with a thrifty veteran or young pup who just needs reps addition...and look elsewhere in the draft...i like the position talent that is likely gonna be in this draft much more at positions other than stand up edge rusher...
     
  33. bigvince75

    bigvince75 Well-Known Member

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    Huge fan of Lewis. I think he could be great in both the 4-3 and 3-4. Not only is he a good pass-rusher but he has strong instincts and is a good tackler as well.
     
  34. bigvince75

    bigvince75 Well-Known Member

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    An underrated player that i'm interested in is Sammy Brown out of Houston. He plays against weaker competition but his production is excellent and he has solid measurables as a pass-rushing LB at the next level. I'd definitely want NE to consider him in the middle to late rounds
     
  35. RealDriscoll

    RealDriscoll Still Perfect.. and You're Not.

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    Vinny Curry is blah to me. I think he gets handled by good left tackle's easily. Cam Johnson is interesting as I saw him first hand against the Terrapins.

    Mercilus is not overrated IMO. I've watched him and he has some nice moves to keep defenders hands off of him. I think he will be a better stand-up player at the next level and think the Dolphins should have interest in the top of round 2
     

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