Question Guys ?

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by xthecrow74x, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. xthecrow74x

    xthecrow74x Active Member

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    Do We have any list of sleepers for this upcoming draft unknown players
    that they can have an impact on a team?
    which one of these guys , you guys think can make it big ?

    Knile Davis, RB, Arkansas
    Davis was on his way to a potential first round draft grade after a sophomore year in which he ran for over 1,300 yards and 13 scores on the ground until a broken ankle wiped out his 2011 season. He redshirted the year, and hoped for a big 2012. It didn't quite happen that way. Davis ran for just 377 yards and two scores, while averaging only 3.9 yards per carry. Before the injury, Davis was an aggressive runner with tremendous speed for a 220lb back. He had the ability to make defenders miss and was a threat for a big play every time he touched the ball. While not a power back despite his size, the authority he ran with and speed allowed him to fall forward at the end of his runs. This past season, he was more hesitant and did not possess the same agility on the field. Davis will have to show teams at the combine and in workouts that the ankle is 100%, that he has his speed and cutting ability back, and he could re-establish himself in the middle rounds of the draft. It can often take a long time to get back to full strength with a broken ankle, so there is hope that he can regain his form. A team willing to take a flyer on day three of the draft could end up with a big play back, capable of being an impact starter.
    Jonathan Franklin, RB, UCLA
    Franklin was as responsible as any player for UCLA's turn around this year. He runs much tougher and much more aggressive than you expect from a 5'10 200lb running back. He has quick feet, can make the first defender miss on a consistent basis, and quickly gets to top gear once he's in space. He has very good speed and can rack up big plays with regularity, like he did this past season on his way to 1,734 yards and 13 scores on the ground. Franklin also developed into a threat as a receiver this year, which was a concern entering the season. His overall size does raise some concerns about how many carries he can handle at the next level, but he definitely has the talent to be a regular contributor in the NFL. He may not hear his name called until day three, but he has the talent to go a day earlier.
    Quinton Patton, WR, Louisiana Tech
    If the expected underclassmen declare, the WR position could be one of the deeper positions on draft day this year. Most people speak about Patton as a day three prospect, but he has the skills to go on day two, and be a playmaker in the NFL. He has solid size at 6'1 200, and combines it with excellent natural athleticism. Patton is one of the smoother receivers in this class. He glides across the field with the ball in his hands, in and out of his breaks, and adjusts easily to balls while in the air. Patton isn't going to simply run by defenders with blazing speed, but he has enough speed to get down the field at times and make big plays. He may not have the upside of a true #1, but Patton definitely has starter ability and could be a very good wideout in the NFL.
    Kyle Long, OL, Oregon
    Howie's son and Chris' brother originally planned on making his name in a different sport. He was a very good baseball player that originally signed to play the sport at Florida State. He left FSU with grade difficulty and some substance abuse issues, and eventually ended up on the gridiron at Saddleback(CA) Community College. Long landed at Oregon with one year of eligibility and became a backup tackle. Injuries forced him into the lineup at guard, and the NFL all of a sudden looked like a realistic possibility. Long has a lot of things going for him. The obvious bloodlines are there, and he's even bigger than his brother and father. Long is 6'7 320 but is also a good athlete. He's had success as a guard, using his size, strength, and athleticism to quickly make an impact. He has the natural tools to play tackle, but is clearly a work in progress at any position. Even though his time on the field has been sparse, Long has a ton of upside and is a name that could really make some noise in the post season.
    Justin Pugh, OT, Syracuse
    Athletic tackles are always in demand, and that is what makes Pugh a quality prospect. His name is rarely in discussion as a top 50 selection, but that's where players with his talent go. He is a three year starter for the Orangemen and has the skills to man the position in the NFL. He is a good natural athlete with nimble feet and good lateral agility. He mirrors defenders in pass protection, and is very good at blocking in space. Pugh also shows some pop at the point of attack and can get some movement in the running game. He will need to add some more weight to his frame, but he is a very good all around tackle prospect. He doesn't get much talk as a borderline first rounder or solid second rounder, but it would not be a reach if he was taken that high.
    Datone Jones, DL, UCLA
    Jones has has played both end and tackle for the Bruins, and had success at both spots. He is solidly built at 6'4 275, and has a well rounded game to go with it. He has a great burst off the line, and uses impressive natural strength and his quickness to wreak havoc in the backfield. His combination of athleticism, quickness, power, and relentlessness make him the kind of guy you have to worry about on every snap. Jones' blend of talent and motor could allow him to play multiple roles in the NFL. His best fit may be as a strongside end in a 4-3, but some added weight could allow him to shift inside in a 4-3, or play the 5 technique in a 3-4 alignment. Jones has added quite a bit of mass since enrolling at UCLA and is pretty thick, so there are some concerns about his growth potential but the kid is a legitimate second day prospect, even if he is projected to go on day three.
    Margus Hunt, DE, SMU
    There aren't many people in this draft that are as impressive physically as Hunt is. He has a massive frame at 6'8 280 with freakishly long arms. He's also an excellent athlete to go with that size and wingspan. Despite his height, Hunt shows a quick burst off the snap, and does a good job staying low out of his stance, which is usually the problem with taller players. His natural athleticism allows him to change direction well, and he has the speed to chase and close on the ball. Hunt is still a work in progress as he has only played football for four years after picking up the sport at SMU. He also uses his amazing physical gifts to impact the kicking game. He is second all time in NCAA history with 17 blocked kicks during his career. That is an area he can help a team immediately, even if he takes some time to develop his skills off the edge. Hunt is only viewed as a mid day three prospect now, but could blow up at the combine.
    Jamie Harper, OLB, Southern Mississippi
    Very few players can say they have played safety, linebacker, and defensive end at the college level. Harper can. He began his career as a safety, and gradually moved his way to the defensive line, although it was in a hybrid role off the edge. As you would expect, Harper is a gifted natural athlete with the speed to cover ground in a hurry. He is hard to block off the edge because is so quick, fast, and athletic. He has good size at 6'3 235, but he will need to bulk up further. As it stands now, he can be beaten up and taken out of plays by physical blockers. Harper will need to learn to take on blocks and shed better, in addition to getting stronger. You can't teach the speed and athleticism though. His game is attacking the line of scrimmage off the edge, but the physical tools should allow him to play in space and drop into coverage with some time to develop that part of his game. Even is a situational pass rusher, Harper has the skills to make an impact in the NFL.
    Phillip Thomas, S, Fresno St.
    84 tackles, 12 for loss, four sacks, four forced fumbles, and eight interceptions. That is the all around impact Thomas had on his way to unanimous All America honors. Very few players can impact the game in as many ways as he does, yet, he is still one of the most underrated players in this draft. Thomas has good size and is a good athlete, but is the player he is because of his natural football instincts. He is a disciplined defender, but very aggressive once he reads the action. Thomas led the nation in interceptions, showing his ability in pass coverage to locate the ball and be in position to make a play. He is a reliable open field tackler but also shows the ability to make a big hit when the opportunity presents itself. Fresno State utilized his all around skills very well, lining him up in the box, deep in centerfield and even in man coverage. He also showed a lot of toughness off the field, returning from a broken leg and dislocated ankle that cost him the 2011 season. Thomas won't blow people away physically, but his tremendous instincts make him an impact defender.


    go Phins !!
     
  2. chibios

    chibios Member

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    I think Quinton Patton is going to be a steal in this draft on day 2. Tremendous wide receiver.

    One thing that has always stood out to me was the day I heard this years best CB prospect, Dee Milliner, talk about how Patton was hands down the toughest guy to cover during his time at Alabama. That is saying a lot coming from a guy who mostly faced SEC talent.
     
  3. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i don't think any of those guys are sleepers...
     
  4. chibios

    chibios Member

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    I think he means guys that are possibly going to be taken on day 2
     
  5. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Slimm's Sleepers:



    Quarterback:

    Brad Sorensen / Southern Utah

    Sean Renfree / Duke

    Matt Scott / Arizona



    Runningback:

    Richard Samuel / Georgia (FB)

    Shawne Alston / West Virginia

    Benny Cunningham / Middle Tennessee St.

    Latavius Murray / UCF

    Lonnie Pryor / Florida St.



    Tight End:

    Zach Sudfeld / Nevada

    Ryan Otten / San Jose St.

    Justice Cunningham / South Carolina

    Jack Doyle / Western Kentucky

    Ryan Griffin / UCONN

    Chase Harper / Texas St.

    Brandon Ford / Clemson



    Wide Receiver:

    Taylor Stockemer / Arkansas St.

    Zach Rogers / Tennessee

    Javone Lawson / UL-Lafayette

    Chip Reeves / Troy

    Nick Williams / UCONN

    Jheranie Boyd / North Carolina

    Justin Brown / Oklahoma

    Quincy McDuffie / UCF

    Roy Roundtree / Michigan

    Emory Blake / Auburn

    Tyrone Goard / Eastern Kentucky



    Linebacker:

    Greg Blair / Cincinnati

    Cameron Lawrence / Mississippi St.

    Jake Johnson / South Alabama

    Will Compton / Nebraska

    Daren Bates / Auburn



    Defensive End / OLB:

    Lerentee McCray / Florida

    Eric Martin / Nebraska

    David Bass / Missouri Western St.

    Travis Johnson / San Jose St.

    Quanterus Smith / Western Kentucky

    Ty Powell / Harding

    Lavar Edwards / LSU

    Trevardo Williams / UCONN



    Offensive Line:

    J.C. Tretter / Cornell

    Jeff Nady / Nevada

    Jeff Baca / UCLA

    Eric Herman / Ohio

    Jamaal Johnson-Webb / Alabama A&M

    Tanner Hawkinson / Kansas

    John Wetzel / Boston College

    Rogers Gaines / Tennessee St.



    Safety:

    Don Jones / Arkansas St.

    Jermaine Robinson / Toledo

    Terence Garvin / West Virginia

    Rontez Miles / Cal (PA)

    Kemal Ishmael / UCF

    Jahleel Addae / Central Michigan

    Malcolm Bronson / McNeese St.

    Dexter McCoil / Tulsa

    Bradley McDougald / Kansas

    John Boyett / Oregon

    B.J. Scott / South Alabama

    Cooper Taylor / Richmond



    Defensive Tackle:

    Jake McDonough / Iowa St.

    Darrington Sentimore / Tennessee

    Joe Vellano / Maryland
     
  6. HarryBagpipe

    HarryBagpipe Archibald Meatpants Super Donator

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    A few UCF players. Have you been watching that team more closely the past few years?
     
  7. Pinkboy

    Pinkboy Banned Hammered

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    The OP doesn't know what a sleeper is
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Quarterback: Peter Lalich (California-PA), Jordan Rodgers (Vanderbilt)

    Running Back: Dennis Johnson (Arkansas), Lonnie Pryor (FSU), Zac Stacy (Vanderbilt), Ray Graham (Pittsburgh), Cierre Wood (Notre Dame), Latavius Murray (UCF), Cameron Marshall (Arizona State)

    Full Back: Lonnie Pryor (FSU), Kyle Juszczyk (Harvard)

    Tight End: Joseph Fauria (UCLA), Chris Gragg (Arkansas), Justice Cunningham (South Carolina), Phil Lutzenkirchen (Auburn), Luke Wilson (Rice)

    Tackle: Vinston Painter (Virginia Tech), Mark Popek (South Florida)

    Guard: Hugh Thornton (Illinois)

    Center: none

    Wide Receiver: Mark Harrison (Rutgers), Marquise Goodwin (Texas), Marquess Wilson (Washington State), Sam McGuffie (Rice), Zach Rogers (Tennessee), Corey Fuller (Virginia Tech), Chris Harper (Kansas State), Denard Robinson (Michigan), Jheranie Boyd (North Carolina), Chad Bumphis (Mississippi State), Tyrone Goard (Eastern Kentucky)

    Defensive Tackle: Kwame Geathers (Georgia)

    Defensive End: Quanterus Smith (Western Kentucky), Joe Kruger (Utah), Walter Stewart (Cincinnati), Earl Okine (Florida), Wes Horton (USC)

    Outside Linebacker: Travis Johnson (San Jose State)

    Linebacker: Vince Williams (FSU), Devonte Holloman (South Carolina), Jake Knott (Iowa State), A.J. Klein (Iowa State), Kenny Tate (Maryland), Tom Wort (Oklahoma)

    Corner: Nickell Robey (USC), Sanders Commings (Georgia), Kayvon Webster (South Florida), Terry Hawthorne (Illinois), Kahlid Wooten (Nevada), Travis Howard (Ohio State)

    Safety: Duke Williams (Nevada), Alonzo Tweedy (Virginia Tech), Josh Evans (Florida), Corey Broomfield (Mississippi State), Ray Ray Armstrong (Miami), Kemal Ishmael (UCF)

    Should note that many of these guys I consider to be UDFA targets only, not guys I would draft.
     
  9. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    I probably watch everybody closely.

    I guess I've been watching UCF ever since they made the jump up from I-AA in the mid 90's. I was in BDS when they beat us on a last second field goal in 2000, which was one of the worst Bama teams of the past 50 years (3-8) after we began the season ranked #3 in the polls. The only positive that came out of that game was being the final nail in the coffin of Mike DuBose.
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    What's interesting is the number of former members of this sleeper list that I now can no longer include because they're not sleepers anymore.

    Those include Terron Armstead, Brennan Williams, Shamarko Thomas, D.J. Hayden, Darius Slay, Devin Taylor, Cornelius Washington, Johnathan Franklin, D.J. Swearinger, Travis Kelce, even Stedman Bailey was once a "sleeper".

    Of course, the flip side to that is a guy like Joseph Fauria may NOW be a "sleeper" even though he'd previously been high rated and I thought him deserving of the high ratings. Similar with Ray Graham, Cierre Wood and Marquess Wilson.

    Then there are guys that have been sleepers forever and I've been high on them forever, they've gotten no traction. Dennis Johnson is the best example of that. Jake Knott and A.J. Klein also good examples. Nickell Robey and Kayvon Webster good examples as well. Guys I've been onto for multiple years.
     
  11. MoFinz

    MoFinz Uwe Von Schamann's Bastard Son

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    I'm surprised Conner Vernon isn't a sleeper pick. All he did was catch everything but a cold at Duke.....is he too good or not good enough? I like his toughness
     
  12. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Yeah there's a distinction to be made between true sleepers, and kids that are simply underrated. Basically, if you were invited to the combine it's difficult for me to consider you a sleeper at that point. Have to dig a little deeper down into the pool of prospects to find what I would consider true sleepers.

    The perception certainly changes as the draft process makes it way from the end of bowl season through the Senior Bowl, on to the combine... and concludes with pro days.

    A lot of the players who make up my underrated Seniors/Underclassman threads prior to the season are used as benchmarks for comparison by the time the draft rolls around.
     
  13. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    I think there was a time when Vernon could be considered a sleeper. Although as I mentioned, it's hard for me to consider a kid a sleeper if he's invited to the combine.... much less one who holds ACC career receiving records.

    Vernon is most likely viewed pretty accurately among the general draft community and the NFL. Mid-late round prospect that profiles as a solid #3 option, lower tier #2 option.
     
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I hadn't really thought about the distinction between "sleeper" and "underrated". It's all about what the original poster wants to know, in this case. He said "sleeper" but he named guys like Johnathan Franklin, Quinton Patton, Margus Hunt, Datone Jones and Kyle Long. I'll be surprised if any of those guys lasts beyond the 2nd round. Some of them will go 1st round.

    Personally I just assumed that any Day 3 guy would fit the category. Some of the guys I mentioned have a shot at going earlier than Day 3, in particular Hugh Thornton, Mark Harrison, Marquise Goodwin and Sanders Commings...but I'm not entirely certain they will.
     
  15. Fin Thirteen

    Fin Thirteen FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    A guy I've been looking at recently and I just can't understand why he wasn't at the Combine or the Shrine Game or why he's pegged as a 7th rounder at best - most have him a UDFA.

    Rutgers safety Duron Harmon. 6'1" and 200 lbs. To my eyes, he grades out at about a 4th rounder. He has plus instincts, good feet (played corner for his freshman season I think), good track record for big plays, pretty sound technique if not a big hitter. All Big East two seasons ago and 2nd team last season. He ran a 4.45 at his pro day, 15 reps bench, 36" vert, 10'5" broad, 4.16 short shuttle and 6.86 3-cone.

    Had an INT and 7 passes broken up last season, 5 INTs and 1 pass broken up in 2011. Good for 45-50 tackles a year.

    There's really a lot to like about this kid. He's a leader, a baller, a decent athlete and at worst a very nice depth guy at FS who could prob play SS if you needed. I've looked at about three or four Rutgers games from last season and he's figured pretty well in them all. I get that it's a good safety class this year, but I can't believe you could pick this kid up as a UFDA. Serious steal, imo. Ray Ray Armstrong, Cooper Taylor and Cody Davis would be three other late safeties I would look at, but Harmon definitely belongs in the conversation..

    http://http://draftbreakdown.com/duron-harmon-vs-arkansas-2012
     
  16. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

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    I would go back and look at the immediate projection for the 2013 draft, not long after the 2012 draft ended. Invariably some guys pick the first round for the following year.

    Now, that list inevitably will look stupid a year later. In fact, I remember Ray Ray Armstrong of the Canes making one of them. He is slow and slower, not to mention questionable judgment, on and off the field. That wasn't an astute pick.

    However, a list like that is guaranteed to include many players who were improperly downgraded, for whatever reason, and offer good value in this draft. The defensive tackle from Texas -- Randall -- who we picked very late last year was on those first round forecasts immediately after the 2011 draft.

    It's a good refresher exercise. I always get a kick out of fans who immediately denounce the list, as if they are proving something. It's identical to mocking the handful of cases in which college preseason team ratings are way off, like USC and Arkansas last year, instead of marveling at how frequently they are correct, and finding ways to use it.
     
  17. NUGap

    NUGap Well-Known Member

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    There's two Northwestern lineman that could be 7th rounders to UDFA, I'll talk about them briefly since we're talking about "real" sleepers.

    The first is Patrick Ward. Ward is an OT, around 6'7", 310 lbs. He started at RT for three years when Al Netter (who was on the PS for the 49ers this year) was playing LT. He was kicked to LT this year. The PFW magazine has him listed as a 7th - UDFA pick. Personally, I'm not a huge fan. He's amazingly rigid and upright, like someone tied a board to his back. I think his footwork is also a bit sloppy and slow. Extremely smart guy, Mechanical Engineer with ~3.9 GPA.

    The second is Brian Arnfelt, a DT for the 'cats this year. He runs 6'5", 300 lbs. Which means you could potentially use him at either 5 or 3 tech. At NU's proday he benched 225 at 38 reps, which means he would have tied Margus Hunt for most bench press reps at the combine this year. He ran a 4.81 in the 40. He was a really solid contributor on the DL this year, he had 3 sacks this year but was really solid in the run game. Also a team captain.

    I don't have any notes on Arnfelt because I just spent about 30 minutes watching NU OG Brian Mulroe to find out he's not pursuing football due to a career offer, so no time to watch Arnfelt. However, with those really solid numbers for this size, wouldn't be surprised to see someone take a flyer on him.
     
  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I don't know if I agree on this one. I think it might be a good exercise with a guy like Okafor who used to be considered a good 1st rounder and now is more like a 2nd rounder, and all that happened in between was him leading the draft's pass rushers in pressures per snap.

    But in my opinion the tendency you're talking about would be characteristic of an overly-mature information environment, an environment where most of what you really need to know is already freely available, and the only thing time does is cause people to over-think. I could see how that would be the case at the NFL level with respect to free agents who have played in the NFL against other NFL players for at least 4 years already. But it's not the case when it comes to college versus pro. This far out, you don't have near enough information yet to be confident that guys are being rated correctly...because these players are all still in a heavy developmental phase. Inevitably the juniors flood the top end of every draft every year, and at this stage those guys are only 2 years out of high school. Many have started for a year or less, to this point.

    I don't consider myself to be terrible at what I do. But I was asked by Bleacher Report to do a 2013 Mock Draft absurdly within a week of the 2012 NFL Draft. I hadn't done ANY work on the 2013 class. What that meant is that I had to go by common rankings, stuff you find on NFL Draft Scout, which are usually oriented toward the BLESTO preseason rankings and the like.

    I'll give the guys I put in the 1st round based on a combination of those rankings, and the very few players I legitimate did have research and opinions about. I'll put stars next to the guys I'd researched pretty extensively and so putting them where I did was in large part based on my own feelings:

    QB Logan Thomas, Virginia Tech*
    CB David Amerson, North Carolina State
    QB Matt Barkley, USC*
    WR Robert Woods, USC
    LB Shayne Skov, Stanford*
    QB Tyler Wilson, Arkansas
    DT Star Lotulelei, Utah*
    OT Ricky Wagner, Wisconsin
    WR Keenan Allen, California
    CB Carrington Byndom, Texas*
    LB Manti Te'o, Notre Dame*
    FS Kenny Vaccaro, Texas*
    WR Kenny Stills, Oklahoma
    RB Marcus Lattimore, South Carolina*
    DE William Gholston, Michigan State
    DT Kawann Short, Purdue
    OT Oday Aboushi, Virginia
    CB Dee Milliner, Alabama*
    OC Barrett Jones, Alabama
    LB Tom Wort, Oklahoma
    DE Jarvis Jones, Georgia
    DT Kwame Geathers, Georgia
    RB Christine Michael, Texas A&M
    CB Tyrann Mathieu, LSU
    CB Johnthan Banks, Mississippi State
    DE Alex Okafor, Texas*
    DE Barkevious Mingo, LSU
    OT Justin Pugh, Syracuse
    DE Bjoern Werner, FSU*
    TE Joseph Fauria, UCLA*
    RB Ray Graham, Pittsbugh*

    Again the guys with an (*) were guys I'd done enough on to endorse the grade (even Fauria and Graham, unfortunately)...but every other pick, this was all based on NFL Draft Scout's lists for the most part. There's some messed up stuff on there, lol.

    I try and be aware of the situations you describe...over thinking...too much emphasis on new information and not properly contextualizing it. IMO, that may be happening with Matt Barkley, Manti Te'o...but the others? Not so sure.
     
  19. NUGap

    NUGap Well-Known Member

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    That's actually a pretty good list, honestly I would have expected a much higher attrition rate. Most of those guys are looking at somewhere between rounds 1-3. I personally would have thought nearly 50% of those would be graded 5th round or lower this year, simply based on poor senior showings, injuries, etc. Shows what I know.
     
  20. Pat-London

    Pat-London A True Fan

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    Theo Riddick. Multi dimensional, tough runner, good vision, great hands and a smart football player.
     
  21. Fin Thirteen

    Fin Thirteen FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Even I would find it hard to justify taking Harmon in the third, where NE took him. But he was overlooked by many and they have a solid player there, if taken a round or 2 too early.
     

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