Read option or pistol offense?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by cltchperf, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. cltchperf

    cltchperf Pro Bowler

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    It was just something that made me think and I wanted others input, as I've watched nfl network and them talk about the pistol offense with Kaepernick as well as Griffien's read option offense and the success there. I thought Tannehill for the most part played decent for his first season, especially considering his inexperience and lack of WR help and o line issues this season. It made me wonder if the offense would have had more success or how Tannehill would do or have done with a read option or pistol offense. I don't know much detail about the offense, other than it sets up the option for the hand off to the running back or the qb to hold on and run or throw, etc. But while I know tannehill is not blazing like Bob Griffin and Kap, he's pretty darn fast and I believe the Seahawks ran some variety of that offense with Wilson, who isn't blazing like griffin and Kap but quite athletic and fast himself. Tannehill while no Griffin is a great athlete and actucally ran faster than Andrew Luck who is pretty fast too. He's just a hair slower than wilson. Wilson ran a 4.55 40 at the combine, while Tannehill who couldn't run for the combine cuz of surgery but ran on his pro day ran a 4.58 40 which is a very good time for a qb. I mean he was a WR for college, so even slow WRs are pretty fast compared to many other players. This offense seems like it's useful for the athletic qbs, they have to be pretty fast and athletic, but don't have to be freakish fast as vick or griffin or Kap for it to work it seems though as evidence of Russel Wilson as stated previously. Or is it good miami doesn't or didn't use this offense as a qb is more prone to get destroyed and maybe a shorter career, as evident by the hits Griffin took from it. However, Kaepernick hasn't seemed to get nailed nearly as much as griffin and is it a matter of the coach and how the offensive system is used or has Kap just been smarter when running than Griffin and taken less hits?
     
  2. JT-forpresident

    JT-forpresident Believe In Miami

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    if you were to run either one, i think it would be the pistol without a doubt.

    The read-option requires a legitimate running threat at the quarterback position and while i love tannehill's abilities, they're not sufficient here.

    I do like tannehill in a pistol offence though, he will not figure as a main threat on the ground, but defences would have to take in consideration his talent in those rollout/bootlegs/playaction/etc. plays. Tannehill is very good outside the pocket, either throwing or picking up a few yards on the ground...


    with all that being said, I think the spread offence would be the best for him... (think of new england) ... he just needs that deep WR threat and I think he'd be a beast in a similar offence
     
  3. cltchperf

    cltchperf Pro Bowler

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    What is the offense the seahawks use for Wilson then? I know it's not the same as what Redskins use for Griffien but I thought I heard there was some read option stuff used or variety in that offense used for Wilson and while Wilson's athletic, he's not speed demon like Griffin either. He's more on par with Tannehill, who can scramble and get yards and get bootlegs, but can't out run a whole defense 60 yards down the field like Griffin, Kap or Vick can.
     
  4. JT-forpresident

    JT-forpresident Believe In Miami

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    from what I recall that seahawks played a lot of shotgun and they also played a lot in pro formations (2 RBs and a tight end).

    They used his athletic ability in playaction and roll outs out of the I formation.
    In the shotgun, there wasn't any designed play really, he just always found a way to escape pressure like a spider monkey
    They played some pistol too but i'm really not sure on that one...

    If you compare RGIII, Kaep and Russell wilson, the closest thing to what Tannehill ran is Wilson's playbook.
     
  5. cltchperf

    cltchperf Pro Bowler

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    ah, I didn't know tannehill's playbook was somewhat similiar to wilson's. Well that's good and makes sense, as I believe tannehill's athletic ability is more on par or similar to Wilson's whereas, Griffin and Kap are on another level of running ability as those guys are really, really fast. I think everyone saw Kap in the packers game. He didn't just have 181 yards rushing, but out ran the whole packers defense. He outran the packers Dbs, which not many qbs, even the athletic ones can do other than the ultra fast and athletic one's like michael vick, and Robert Griffin can do
     
  6. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    No thanks, RT is a passing QB who has always played in a WCO. We play a WCO and I am glad of it. I want a durable long term primarily pocket passer with the ability to run if needed to extend a play or drive. These dancing QBs are a fad, the defences will work out how to stop them next season..... Or they will all end up on IR beside RG3.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2013
  7. ph0enyx

    ph0enyx Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill ran the read option a few times down the stretch and Rodgers has done it before so it is kind of a weapon out of the Philbin playbook. Tannehill and Wilson are mobile quarterbacks more so than option ones and it doesn't hurt Wilson that he was on one of the best teams at running out of shotgun. Kep, Griffin, Newton, and Tebow are all option quarterbacks. Griffin is a bit worrisome because he is smaller than the other three which lead to him getting hurt and in all likelihood he will comeback as more of a Wilson/Tannehill type runner. I know Griffin and Newton also had built into their playbooks some plays where they were only given 1 or 2 reads and told to run if they didnt see them. I don't think the option will be as big next season seeing as Tebow can't find a team, Griffin isn't coming back the same as he was even if everything heals fine they arent running him the same. Cam has a new coordinator who has to change things up because the way he is being used isnt as effective anymore. And I think Kep is only being run so much because they figure if he goes down they still have Alex Smith on the bench who is going to more or less put up the same stats minus the runs so you might as well use Kep's legs now because if he goes down that is all you are losing. With Smith leaving next season expect Kep to have less designed runs.
     
  8. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    Keep my QB in the pocket 95% of the time.
     
  9. Ferretsquig

    Ferretsquig Perennial All-Pro

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    The read option is here to stay and its only going to become more prevalent as more coaches that have had success with it in the college ranks come pro. Not that you want to see Tannehill running it a hundred times a season but why wouldn't you want to present him as a running threat at the goal line or in other unique short yardage situations? Or to pull out on occasion against an overaggressive defense.

    Its silly to try and pass it off as a fad that'll disappear once defenses put a few licks on the QB. Not too long ago people were saying the same thing about the spread offenses, and they've come to dominate the nfl.
     
  10. GoonBoss

    GoonBoss Finheaven Templar Super Donator Donator

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    Personally, I think the Run and Shoot would be viable today.
     
  11. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Miami ran a few read-option plays for Tannehill. It's something to have for when you need it, but Tannehill isn't nearly as elusive as any of those QB's. More of a build-up speed guy.
     
  12. fanfin

    fanfin A True Fan

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    RGIII got knocked out of 3 games. Kaepernick and Newton are 6'5 240+ this will soon lose a lot of popularity. It will stick around a few plays a game besides Kaep Cam who will be stay healthy. once RGIII or even Johnny Football get injured teams will shy away from it. I like it the way Sherm ran it at the end of the year (about 3-5 times a game). this isn't the big 12 these defenders in the NFL cover ground like youve never seen. I don't want to run Tannehill anymore than 3-5 times a game on designed runs.
     
  13. cltchperf

    cltchperf Pro Bowler

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    Kaepernick's size is deceiving. He doesn't look 240lbs or more, because he has long legs and his build looks lean and lanky. Not that he doesn't look like hes muscular. But guys like Big Ben, you can tell or figure they're 250 or bigger dudes. Cam Newton you can tell too that he's a bigger dude, whereas, for Kap it doesn't look like it. His build is more like Griffin's whose 220 I think. But maybe it's from Kap being so tall, as height adds weight too. I think Griffin is just 6'1"-6'2" whereas Kap as you say has more height than Griffin at 6'5".
     
  14. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

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    Very good summary. Tannehill would get clobbered if you exposed him too much. He doesn't have to effortless agility and sliding/ducking instincts of Russell Wilson.

    Many NFL teams are going to incorporate read-option or pistol looks that aren't really options at all, at least not in terms of the quarterback taking off downfield. They will be designed to influence or freeze defenders, to give them a look they aren't expecting. Then the quarterback will take advantage by setting quickly and throwing a dart. Green Bay did some of that. This isn't a trend that benefits only the teams with athletic quarterbacks. Of course, you really have to pick your spots, and handicap the tendencies of the defensive end.
     
  15. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    No thanks.

    There are several good reasons why, but the only one that really matters to me is QB health.

    We drafted Dan Marino in 1983, and we did not draft a top notch QB again until Tannehill in 2013, so 30 years apart. Marino had a great career but it wasn't a particularly long career. Guys like Farve, Manning and Brady have been able to have very long careers. IMHO, had Dan not received the bungled surgery he probably would have played longer and performed even better than he did the last few years. Health not only effects longevity, but also performance.

    Running QB's will have more health issues. I want a high performing QB for 15+ years if possible let, and I don't envision any of these running QB's maintaining a high level of play for that long.

    Who have been the best non-drafted QB's since Marino retired? How long were they great? I'm coming up with Peyton Manning who everybody wanted, and then dropping down to guys like Gannon, Pennington, Cassel, and Farve. Rarely do elite QB's come available outside of the draft, and when they do it tends to be only for a few years then you need to rebuild again anyway.

    No, if you want a QB, you need to draft them. They are hard to find and always risky. When I find one I want to keep him healthy as long as possible, so I'm not opening him up to multiple big hits from LB's and S's every game.

    Like the wildcat, the read option and pistol will be defensed, and this copycat league will all implement it. Cam Newton was good last year, but he was figured bout, and was simply solid this year.

    Multiple formations, personnel grouplings, formation morphing, all those things will be done. The running, I'm hoping we do not add.

    One of he other reasond
     
  16. Ferretsquig

    Ferretsquig Perennial All-Pro

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    And what was the big difference between the simply solid first half of the season from Cam and the great second half when he outplayed his rookie campaign?
     
  17. utahphinsfan

    utahphinsfan Puck Fitzburgh

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    Completely agreed w/ JT-forpres in post 2.

    I'd like to see the phins use the diamond formation like the Packers and Niners do.

    Further the formation used by Green Bay (QB is in the pistol, both RB's are in the B Gap to either side, FB being 2 yds behind LOS, & TB at the standard 8 yds behind LOS) intrigues me as well
     
  18. utahphinsfan

    utahphinsfan Puck Fitzburgh

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    Agreed.

    The R & S today could be thought as the Spread w/ option routes in the passing game. That being said...

    The difference between the Zone Read & Read option as I understand it is;

    The ZRO is about the QB keys on a DE or OLB & goes from there.

    The Wishbone and Veer are variations on the Read.

    FWIW; The Cornhuskers scheme during Osborne's tenure is a hybrid of the 2.
     

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