Regressed - Fasano, Bess, Ginn ...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by spiketex, Nov 10, 2009.

  1. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko, El Bravo 47 - the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

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    Despite some decent off-season training, some players like Fasano, Bess and Ginn appear to have gone backwards from last season. These are all young players that cannot blame getting older. I'm interested in your thoughts, why have these guys regressed?
     
  2. 777

    777 Dolfan 4 Life

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    I think it has to do with the lobs and floaters that Penny was throwing to them last year and the bullets that Henne is throwing....I'm not blaming this on Henne at all.....but it's like these guys can't catch those passes with anything on them....
     
  3. Fish-Head

    Fish-Head U made the pudding but forgot the proof.

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    Fasano was always a little inconsistent... Not really surprised... Haynos on the other hand has progressed...

    Ginn is Ginn... Everyone complained how Penny was holding him back... How he would explode with a 'live arm'... Not even close... The fact is Ginn has failed with two drastically different styles of QB... Maybe the issue is not the QB... Hmm.

    Of the three you mentioned... Bess is the biggest question. He was the picture of consistency... Catching everything he touched... and suddenly he is not... nowhere near what he was... I have to think this is an issue of focus... I don't know if there is something off the field which is getting in his head or he just had more to prove as an undrafted rook... But his focus is not what it was.
     
  4. PassRush

    PassRush Drunken Sailor

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    I am shocked about Fasano. He never was a Antonio Gates or Alge Crumpler, but he usually caught the balls he was supposed to catch, maybe pick up a couple after the catch if he could. This year, he is the picture of inconsistancy.

    Bess, while still definately a steal as a undrated free agent, is not showing up like he did last lear.
     
  5. satz

    satz Seasoned Veteran

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    I think you are just simplifying it.

    pats brought mcgown a safety who plays in the box and he shutdown tony gonzales and every TE he has faced till now.

    pats got rid of all their CB. now you have bodden FA, butler rookie,spring FA , wilhitte 2nd yr player.

    a complete new secondary and you know its called adjustment. also a year of tape shows what a player can do and create matchup. like bess is not as fast as butler so they put him on bess. now bess could not beat his man on man to man.
     
  6. 72champagne

    72champagne the annual ritual

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    It's DEFINITELY. Not defiantly. Not definately. Not defnatly. Not deafanatalie. For instance, I definitely only use adverbs I can definitely spell correctly because I am definitely not in the 2nd grade.
     
  7. Dolfan5000

    Dolfan5000 Mark my words, I'll get mine

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    Definately has to do with the fact that Henne isn't on the same page of the recievers. They were always used to dink and dunk style and making plays after the catch (cept Ginn) which could explain some of the fumbling and drops. They want to turn upfield to get more when they don't need to with Henne throwing 15-20 yard strikes all the time. Personally I think this is main reason for all our passing woes. Good thing Henne knows how to protect a football. I definately don't think it has anything to do with focus, just the pace and style is so completely different that it throws all our receivers off bigtime.
     
  8. Kiick72

    Kiick72 Starter

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    It's not just the drops. All of a sudden Fasano and Bess started fumbling this year. I know Fasano only had the 2 in the first game but they were huge! Bess has fumbled in consecutive games AND muffed a punt. I think the previous poster is right, it must be a concentration issue.
     
  9. Dr. Phin

    Dr. Phin Scout Team

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    Looking at Fasano's body language...it appears he has lost his confidence. I think the first game when he fumbled twice got to him.

    Bess...I hope is just a little sophomore slump. But he can't keep doing what he is doing.

    Ginn...he is beyond "regressed." He simply isn't very good...make that...HE SUCKS!!!
     
  10. emeraldfin

    emeraldfin Gary Speed RIP Donator

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    Bess has been a huge disappointment, which really amazes me. This guy was the picture of consistency last season and our most reliable receiver. His has this season seem to have gone to jelly in the last year. And this from a guy who is in a contract year if I'm not mistaken.
     
  11. MadDog 88

    MadDog 88 Smoke 'em Jay Finheaven VIP

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    :lol:
     
  12. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    Different Qb equals different results with recievers. Bess catches more short stuff so he has to adjust to more speed than the other recievers. Ginn is just having problems, Hartline is trying to remember to run the right route and Cam is coming around from his knee. Cam is doing the best job of the adjustment, Hartline is hard to tell and Bess did have a better week though not perfect which is what everyone is asking him to be. Yes we need a guy to open these other guys up and until we do every pass is critical. Brown and William are both good hands backs too and they are not catching everything. I believe their drops are bing hilightwed more because when the wildcat is not working and it is 3rd and long that is our only option. Not real fair.
     
  13. shuffel

    shuffel Well-Known Member

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    Wow someones cool.
     
  14. flynryan15

    flynryan15 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I think everyone is trying to analyze this way to much! It has nothing to do with what Qb is throwing to them. By the end of Henne's rookie training camp the had each caught thousands of balls from him. Think about how many other teams you see experience a QB change for whatever reason and the receivers don't drop balls. Case in point Alex Smith comes in at halftime 2 weeks ago and lights it up.

    The reality is we have to run block first tight ends, they are going to drop balls it is the nature of the beast.

    Bess over achieved a little last year and has now become a focus of our offense and the opposing defense. I think the ball he stayed with and caught that was bouncing off the defenders pads, while tip toeing the sideline, and being interfered with shows he had a bad game against the Saints and nothing more. The problem is he is in a lot of formations were he is the only receiver and he is getting a lot off attention from defenses. He could very easily be as productive as Welker if we get a receiver that clears out some traffic.

    Cam is a constant catches everything, just like Bess needs someone out there to stretch the field.

    Hartline, I am pretty sure his only drop is a diving catch against New England. Yeah he let it get to his body, bad technique. The drive before were he sold out got drilled, caught with his hands and held on to the ball shows what type of receiver he is. 2 and a half seasons later and we have never seen that from Teddy Bear.

    Teddy Bear, it is what it is! He is a average return that has blazing speed. He shies away from contact, he will slide or go out of bounds. We are stuck with him through 2009, and it is a catch 22. His lack of courage flat out pisses me off, but I know enough about football to know not only do we need him out there stretching the field we need to throw it to him on those routes 3-6 times a game. Henning needs to be smart, run him on fly routes, fades, and flag routes. He gets single coverage, man/press, defenses aren't fearing him and giving safety help. The problem is Henne isn't getting the time for the play to develop. Right now defense are attacking us on every passing down because we are not getting any vertical plays! Our longest pass against the Saints was a screen, we went over 20yds once against the Jets, and I don't think we threw one past 20yds at all against New England.

    We all said wait for Henne and we will get vertical. Well guess what we really haven't. My best guess is the blame lies on Dan Henning, and lack of a vertical player. That said you can put the full blame for that on the front office.
     
  15. LDaniel7

    LDaniel7 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Bess singlehandedly brought the Saints back into the game, with his fumble.

    Bess singlehandedly kept the Jets in his game w. his fumble, and got really lucky that another fumble wasn't called.

    The problem is that he is a very average talent hyped out the wazoo. No DB in the NFL has a problem covering him, so they are always around him unless hole in zone. Which means he takes hits. Now we see that he simply cannot hold onto the ball w. a strong hit. Or, he loses it way too many times for one to be comfortable.

    It's amazing that I've not heard anyone talk about how Bess's fumbles contributed to loss to the Saints [the key, actually, to bringing them back] and almost did the same for the Jets. And looked really slow against the Pats, poor hands -- if by hands you mean the ability to hold onto the ball.

    I've never been a big Bess fan. It's hard to get excited about a WR that can't outrun most LBs and cannot make people pay, cannot challenge/spread the field vertically from the slot or outside.

    The sooner we replace Bess [or one of the other grocery getters] the better off we'll be, imo.

    Ginn needs to be running Randy Moss routes. It's what he's built for, and Moss will enter the pro-bowl on the back of such routes. Quit trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. Let Ginn be Ginn and run Moss like routes. Find another QB that can run possession WR routes.

    AND FIND A FREEKIN' OL THAT CAN PASS BLOCK.

    Long is the worst LT in the league at pass blocking. Especially if you look at how much the Phins are paying for each blown pass block assignment from him. Phenomenal...ly bad.

    LD
     
  16. sphincter

    sphincter Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

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    Thanks dad, we will just go back to coloring.
     
  17. jtoomuch

    jtoomuch Apalled and aghast Donator

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    I don't get it either. Bess was becoming one of my favorite players last year. I was seeing him as the next best thing to Wes Welker.
     
  18. Imperium

    Imperium FinHeaven VIP

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    Bess has been inconsistent but he’s still the goto guy on 3rd and short. I don’t know where to find this stat but I’m betting that a very high percentage of his catches have been for 1st downs. That’s not a talent that should be easily discounted in my opinion. Last year he was a ball magnet. I’d like think his fumbles and drops are a fluke but regardless I think he’s a good enough prospect to keep around another season or two.

    Fasano was inconsistent last season, but I don’t believe he had a fumble. He’s also a free agent after this season I believe. I think he’s worth bringing back but more as a complement to a true number one TE. He’s a good guy to have in a two TE set.

    I don’t know what the hell happened to Ginn this season. I don’t remember too many egregious drops last season. I also don’t recall any Orande Gadsen type catches either but I do recall him showing very good concentration on a deep TD pass between two defenders in the Seattle game. His hands while not great, didn't appear to be his weakness. So is it a concentration issue? Perhaps the pressure is finally getting to him? I hate to give up on the guy but at some point you just stop putting him in the game if he keeps this up.
     
  19. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    Glad your not drafting for this team we would be back in the Cam Mueler days. #ed and long Bess has been the first option alto different than last year when no one expected anything from him
     
  20. Sirspud

    Sirspud Pro Bowler

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    Fasano is certainly a disappointment, although I wouldn't say the same thing about Ginn because personally I always thought that he sucked, especially since his horrible performance in the final quarter against NE last year.

    But Bess, I just don't think you can simplify to it being all on him. I think there are a lot of factors contributing to why he hasn't been as effective this year. To tell you the truth, our offense was incredibly consistent last year, it wasn't high scoring when it didn't need to be (although we did bring it against the Chiefs out of neccesity) but it was highly effective. We had a QB playing at the type of his game, no matter how you want to classify that game. He is one of the NFL's most accurate QB's of all time. Certainly, that type of QB can help a possesion receiver, although Bess's possesion skills certainly benefitted the QB as well.

    We just haven't come out and executed the same type of game plan that we did last year. When we play well, it is through ball control like last year, but whereas the passing game was amazingly our form of ball control offense last year, this year our running game has been used to an extreme in games where we are ahead. But partially owing to the type of teams we've played and their quality, once we've gotten behind (or close to it) we have seemed to try more frantically to get bigger play offense, and instead of throwing 8 yard passes to a guy like Bess, we've seemed to be throwing much too many 12-15 yard passes to guys like Ginn and Hartline, who haven't completely stepped up. And that compounds the situation further, now that defenses have figured out that we have no reliable speed threat (they practically beg us to throw to Ginn because they know he won't make the play) they can sit on Bess and Camarillo even further.

    I think we need to realize that, fumbles aside, the struggles of Bess are just indicators of the struggle of our passing offense in general.
     
  21. 72champagne

    72champagne the annual ritual

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    You can't convince a kid to do anything creative or introspective after shoving them in front of a television for hours. But if you're sincere, try to stay within the lines... or else.
     
  22. 1Ronniethetruck

    1Ronniethetruck Well-Known Member

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    fasano,bess,hartline, dump the hole garbage can, dump um i tell u! we dont need trash on our team!
     

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