Sean Smith - Vontae Davis

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by zor, Dec 8, 2009.

  1. zor

    zor Rookie

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    so we've gotten a great look at these two guys. we've seen both get burned (vontae more than smith). we've see both make clutch plays and play some excellent blanket coverage.

    smith is not thrown to as often as davis is thrown to. in most games, offenses have been putting their #1 against vontae and, consequently, he gets thrown at more often than smith. not suprisingly, a #1 receiver WILL get some catches and davis will look as if he's giving up more than smith which may be deceiving. when will allen was in coverage we saw the same thing...teams throw at sean smith and some receivers caught some balls. so i think both CBs are playing at a relatively similar level as far as coverage.

    vontae smith is a bit more of a gambler and will try to step in front of a ball to make the INT. here is where the two are different and where everyone may have a different philosophy as far as risk. v.davis will occassionally try to make the INT even sacrificing a bit of coverage to try to get into position for the INT. the gamble will pay off sometimes and sometimes not....we've seen davis surrender HUGE yardage because of the gamble. on the other hand, we've also seen v.davis make the gamble a couple of times and he's had some success with the INTs. i don't know the ratio BUT here is where i think offenses will interpret it differently....some will see opportunity and some will give him respect. brady i think is an example of a QB who sees opportunity and while i don't think brady played to v.davis' inclination to gamble he nonetheless is a QB who will gamble against a risk taker like v.davis. p.manning is a good example of a QB who will play v.davis' game and bait him with a pump fake or a stare to make davis jump and then go for a deep ball. d.brees will too. like i said.....some QBs will gladly play against a risk taking CB while others who are not as talented will play away from him. so the question for us is whether we prefer a shutdown corner who allows no catches but does not play for the INT or a CB who occasionally gambles on the INT and loses but sometimes wins the battle and also offers good coverage.

    s.smith appears to be more of a shutdown corner, in my opinion, he plays the receiver and blankets him. you throw to him and your ball is not going to be caught but it's probably not going to be intercepted either.

    v.davis appears to love to hit as well....so he adds an added dimension to the defense in helping it appear more physical. we've seen him give a receiver, RB and TE sweet hits. i've yet to see s.smith give a powerful hit to anyone.

    now, i've also seen v.davis get burned a lot more often than smith.....even though the receiver didn't catch it or the QB didn't see him open. smith also lets receivers get by sometimes but v.davis has been burned more often, in my opinion.

    together, the two are demonstrating they are talented and helping to convey the impression that the Dolphins CBs are dangerous corners to throw against. my only fear is that as teams begin to respect the outside it's going to put even more pressure on the already suspect middle of the field.


    what's your impression of sean smith and vontae davis? do you think any one is better than the other given the variables of the game (receivers, offensive strategies, etc)?





    zor
     
  2. finnns2000

    finnns2000 A True Fan

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    I think vontae will be a great cb. He gets burned but has a nose for the ball and hits very well.

    Sean, not so much. He is always out of position, trailing receivers, 0 interception, hits like a sissy, and always gives too much cushion. Not impressed.
     
  3. Ricky_Fan34

    Ricky_Fan34 Suns and Fins superfan

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    Sean has been burned much more than Vontae has. I think he will take more time to develop than Vontae will.
     
  4. Chubby

    Chubby SUPERFAN

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    Vontae is really starting to put it together but he still has a ways to go. Damn he is a hitter. And I love his competitive attitude.

    I dont agree with your S. Smith assesment to an extent. What you dont see most of the time is Smith really does cover well against his receivers. The times where he has been out of position was more the fact that he is a rookie and got schooled (faked out by veteran receivers). I think very soon he will catch on to the little fakes and anticipate a little better the actual route of the reciever, when this happens you will see the ball hawking S. Smith that he can be. Right now he is overthinking, experience and good coaching will fix that eventually.
    Chubbs
     
  5. fiftyofhaze

    fiftyofhaze the entire organization

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    Wow u shouldn't b a fin fan. Sean smith is a rookie playing
    against top teams. Let's see who our rookie CBs played.

    Vincent Jackson Floyd and gates
    Roddy white and tony Gonzalez
    Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark
    braylon edwards and cotchery
    Randy moss and welker twice
    to and lee Evans

    And they should be soooo much better cause we play bad qbs all the time

    manning
    Brady
    Ryan
    rivers

    damn our rookies suck.

    I want to revoke ur fan card. Sean started all year. Vontae replaced someone and was the higher pick. Maybe he plays wit a chip on his shoulder
     
  6. haoleboy

    haoleboy Starter

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    I think the numbers are a bit skewed at this point. Vonte has gone up against more true #1's so far this year. I think this is largely due to the fact that in the beginning the Fins would not have the corners switch sides to take advantage of the height differences between Vonte and Sean. I mean seriously, I'd rather have Sean matching up against Moss and Ownes just because of the height issue, but that's not how it played out this year. I'd like to see Vonte on the #2 guy, and take him completely out of the game, and have Sean match up against the #1 guy with some saftey help. I think this would give us our best chances in the long run.
     
  7. DzakkH13

    DzakkH13 Winning is a Habit Donator

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    Vontae has played very well. He has been burned from time to time, but he is a rookie and that is expected. His INTs this year have all been huge. He is a great tackler and comes up in run support quite a bit. I like his physical nature and he is so athletic. His two INTs on Moss are plays not many CBs in this league can make. I like what I see from him and I think he will be a "shutdown" type CB in a year or two.

    Sean is another story. There was so much hype on him this preseason and even premature talks of Hall of Fame type CB. He has been average this year. He doesn't get too many ball thrown his way, but when he does he gets beat a lot. In the Panthers game Steve Smith beat him deep a couple times and Delhome just missed him. He has struggled against faster WRs because he doesn't have great top end speed. With that said, I still like a lot of things I have seen from him. He is a playmaker and has great size. His tackling leaves something do be desired, but many CBs in this league struggle in tackling.

    Overall I think we have two very good, very young CBs that we can rely on for the next 6-8 years. Both are getting better and will benefit when we can finally pick up a great roaming FS. I am happy we got these two and look forward to seeing them give opposing QBs headaches and INTs.
     
  8. finnns2000

    finnns2000 A True Fan

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    Wahhhhhh. You sound like a huge baby. Stop crying.
     
  9. SR 7

    SR 7 Banned Hammered

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    Vontae is covering hte numbr 1 WR, smith isn't and Vontae didn't start from preseason like Smith did so that experience is a big deal.
     
  10. RockyMtnPhinfan

    RockyMtnPhinfan A True Fan Donator

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    Smith started out hot, now Vontae is hot...............i think at this point it's a wash. They BOTH show potential and i think, with good coaching, we have a couple of future pro bowlers on our hands.
     
  11. zor

    zor Rookie

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    my words exactly.
     
  12. zor

    zor Rookie

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    yes.....i agree 100%. the BOTH show potential and in their own ways. what we know for certain is we don't have a jamar fletcher type CB bust by any measure....rather, we have TWO corners who are on their way to becoming star cornerbacks in this league. they've proven to be good enough against #1 receivers like Moss, Owens, S.Smith, Reggie Wayne, B.Edwards, etc. They are not getting punked around at all.....in fact, one can argue that these two guys are finally beginning to win the majority of one on one battles.

    perhaps i'm giving s.smith too much credit....after reading some posts, yeah, he does get beat at the line a bit. but still, IF it was true that that results in catches for receivers then QBs woudl be throwing to his side more. this just isn't happening....they don't throw too much to smith's side. i'm going to rewatch some games (i have all 2009 games dvr'd) and post what i see.

    good feedback guys....except for the one dumb one.


    zor
     
  13. fiftyofhaze

    fiftyofhaze the entire organization

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    Fins2000 if sounding like a baby is being right. Then I'm a premature one. U base ur opinion off what. Cause that **** ain't stats. Our rookie CBS are better then 50% of the league
     
  14. MadDog 88

    MadDog 88 TANNERECTION!!!! Donator

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    Are you watching the games or going by what you read in here?

    S. Smith is very good at blanketing receivers.
     
  15. MiZFiT

    MiZFiT FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    The biggest problem, in my opinion, in both corners is that neither of them can track the ball when its in the air, seems they are always in good position but neither can find the ball.

    Luckily for us, both have the natural talent and tracking the ball can be fixed. These guys are rookies, i am over-joyed that these two are playing at the level they are, have you forgotten our last rookie CB?

    JASON FREAKING ALLEN!!!
     
  16. finnns2000

    finnns2000 A True Fan

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    :lol:

    Haven't missed a game all season. You sir, need a new prescription.

    With the 24th ranked pass defense huh? Get out of here. You can't be sober.
     
  17. Bta72dolphins

    Bta72dolphins A True Fan

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    I think it is perfect how we first thought Sean Smith was amazing then looks Like Davis is doing the bigger plays. Do you think sense Hartline is starting when Pat Turner gets out there he will be better when next season starts.
     
  18. MiZFiT

    MiZFiT FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Sean Smith does blanket recievers so dont pull that bull.


    And did you know Crowder's inability to cover ANYONE and Gibril Wilson's inability to cover ANYONE, is a bigger part to why the pass defense is ranked 24th.
     
  19. cafinfan408

    cafinfan408 Punching Bag

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    Smith has a big advantage in the fact he is so long.
    You think Qb's just always happen to overthrow the WR he is on? NO they know with the size Smith has they have to get that ball as far away from him as they can. A ball that is not leading the WR enough will get picked or swatted by a 6'3 CB.
    Both these guys are good.
    TE's have killed us all year not WR's the only WR I remember having a huge game is Moss who Vonte lovers wont aknowldege. 2 rookie cb's starting and playing at this level is amazing. Compare our pass coverage with these two to the guys we have seen back there in the last 6 years
     
  20. MadDog 88

    MadDog 88 TANNERECTION!!!! Donator

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    Well done. You nailed it right on the head. This is a problem that is prevalent with kids coming out of college. Taylor Mays and Eric Berry, considered the top 2 safeties coming out this year, have this same problem.
     
  21. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase

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    :foundout:
     
  22. RealityBites

    RealityBites Realistic Fan

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    Good Draft Picks!! Both these guys are gonna be very good/great, I'm happy with worrying about other positions that these two. :)
     
  23. fiftyofhaze

    fiftyofhaze the entire organization

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    I said our cbs are top in the league not our pass
    defense. U should be a jet fan. Get the fuxk Outta here wit ur bias. Leave or rooks alone blame bubble screens and tight ends for those bad numbers.
     
  24. R_t_Kraken

    R_t_Kraken A True Fan

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    The difference is, Vontae is a play maker. Yes he does get torched but he also makes plays. What plays is Sean Smith making.

    It's disappointing because Smith looked to be the potential super star right out of the gate (i'm not giving up on him of course.) But as it is he's just a wimpy tackler who's not making very many plays.

    Meanwhile, Vontae is a tackling machine who has also made some big plays in the secondary. Suffice it to say, Vontae is further along right now.
     
  25. phillyfinsfan

    phillyfinsfan Active Member

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    Unless you have tape and can follow them on every single play, our assessment is only partial to what we can see on the TV, although some of you may have had the priviledge to see the games live and would be able to form a better opinion. I think they're pretty damn good for rookies. I'd like to see Clemons play more. What about Nathan Jones? He's made some good plays this season.
     
  26. Finlandia

    Finlandia Logjammin'

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    I have to agree about Sean Smith. This guy has done nothing to impress me. Last week Simms calling the game said Smith "had no chance" against Wes Welker. Really? We have a sarting CB that can't cover Wes Welker? I have seen Smith wiff on so many plays it looks like Ted Ginn trying to make a tackle. How many times do we see Smith 5 yards behind someone he has coverage on? If Brady throws that long ball 1 foot closer last week on Smith we lose the game. Watch that again.

    The vision for the ball is key and I agree that needs to and can be fixed. Davis looks to be a stud though I prefer the Champ Baily type of stud over the Weezy kind of stud.

    And what is with Smith doing the incomplete motion and dancing all over the place when a ball is thrown into the seats? And when he is getting burned over and over again. Save that. See Surtain for how to act like a shut down corner.
     
  27. phineffect

    phineffect Starter

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    jesus.. Is there a freaking Sean Smith hate club??? Yeh Vont has some ints, but moss smoked him twice,steve smith, TO! Go back and watch the colts game. How many catches and yards did Reggie wayne havE?? Sean freaking Smith! The kid was a wr at utah and switched. He loves bump and run, him and Vont both do and i LOVE the swagger they show. They are roooooooooks.. Hello!? Like someone else said, Jason Allen.. Jamar Flecher.. THere both better then them by far. The Aiken catch on Smith was a Freak play by aiken, Smith was on him like white on rice. Also the play before the Crowder game winning int. Brady threw a perfect pass to aiken and Smith had Very nice break up.. Stop being so god damn negative!!!!
     
  28. #1dolphinsfan

    #1dolphinsfan Perennial All-Pro

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    what games have you been watching smith has been getting burnt all the time
     
  29. SRM

    SRM Scout Team

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    Well, Sean Smith is an interception or two from being held on everyone's high horses, so I think that tells enough.
     
  30. phineffect

    phineffect Starter

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    Gruu, I just watched the replay on Nfl networok. They showed it a couple times.. He popped it out before they hit the ground. Pretty sure he turned around and everything. And I think Aiken was Drapped over smith on the big play. He came over smith for the most part to grab it
     
  31. Strangeworld

    Strangeworld Banned Hammered

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    Smith is suspect at best, not impressed with him at all.

    Guy is the slow and has no make up speed...
     
  32. MiZFiT

    MiZFiT FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    you are suspect at best.

    i guarantee smith has made more plays than he has given up, and for a rookie, thats impressive.
     

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