Signing both Mike Wallace & Greg Jennings/The Pat Riley effect

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dcnr226, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. dcnr226

    dcnr226 A True Fan Donator

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    The similarities are eerie. The Miami Heat endured 3 years of mediocre basketball to get to the summer of 2010, creating cap space along the way, and then shook up the entire sport by signing the big 3.

    -The Fins have 40+ millions in cap space.
    -Jake Long and Reggie Bush and Randy Starks come off the books, with cheaper, viable replacements in place in Jonathan Martin and Lamar Miller and Jared Odrick
    -Jeff Ireland is working for an owner in Stephen Ross that has given him a vote of confidence, is changing uniforms, upgrading the stadium (which is inevitable IMO) and legitimately wants to usher in a new era of Dolphins football. By all accounts, he is looking to go big..
    -Waning fan interest in Dolphins football, in juxtaposition to the rise of the Miami Heat, whom they compete with for entertainment dollars
    -5 years of investment in the defensive and offensive line, with no glaring holes on either
    -a defense that looks to be, at the very least, SOUND for the foreseeable future
    -exciting building blocks at 2 of the most important positions in an NFL organization: QB & Head Coach
    -a plethora of draft picks, especially in the first 100. Cheap labor..
    -arguably a top 3 slot receiver under contract in Davone Bess
    -a destination in Miami where half the league probably already owns homes, no state income tax, etc

    Assume that Greg Jennings takes a contract that pays him 8 mil (against the cap). Assume that Mike Wallace accepts a contract for 10 mil (against the cap). For the sake of this hypothetical, lets assume both contracts are for 4 years..

    Why is this so absurd a notion? I have been arguing with friends and wrestling with it myself, but don't Greg Jennings and Mike Wallace perfectly complement each other? If you asked for the prototypes at both WR positions, you'd essentially come up with Wallace & Jennings.

    -Mike Wallace is the burner, capable of going deep, getting YAC, and pushing the safety far out of the box.
    -Greg Jennings (like Antonio Brown) is the route runner that can create separation with his elite route running.
    -Both are proven in the league, unlike a receiver able to be had in the 1st round of the draft

    Why not go for both? You'd still have 20+ million in cap space and all of your picks. In this scenario, i'd love to see Tyler Eifert (1st down machine) in the first, but signing these 2 essentially allows you to draft BPA throughout the draft, and/or go for a defensive end or corner back in the 1st. If both were signed, i don't think anyone here would have a problem even trading back and drafting a right tackle in the first round.

    Imagine this offense..

    QB-Ryan Tannehill
    OL-Jonathan Martin, Richie Incognito, Mike Pouncey, Josh Samuda, John Jerry (this is for the hypothetical, not trying to argue the merits of THIS particular lineup)
    TE-Eifert
    FB-Charles Clay (Clay, assuming he bulks and embraces the FB position, would be a dynamic pass catcher at the FB position)
    RB-Lamar Miller, Daniel Thomas
    WR-Mike Wallace, Greg Jennings, Davone Bess, Rishard Matthews

    Before i get attacked, answer me this question: why not?

    Nobody thought what Pat Riley did was possible, but it was, and he made it happen..partially bc of Riley's foresight, partially bc Dwyane Wade helped recruit these guys, and partially bc this is Miami..and when on the rise, this is where athletes want to be.

    There is no question that these guys can both contribute for the next 4 years. Both are respected in their respective locker rooms. So again, i'll ask...

    why not?
     
  2. quickfish83

    quickfish83 Active Member

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    1.) That o-line is not nearly good enough. Your counting on at least 2 backup caliber players. LOL!
    2.) Hartline is a better deal in terms of yardage per dollar spent than Greg Jennings.
    3.) Charles Clay is not a better FB than Javorskie Lane.
    4.) Eifert is not best player available at 12 and wont be there for our second round pick. Trading down hasn't worked well for us.
     
  3. steveo style

    steveo style Scout Team Donator

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    Would Wallace and Jennings both want to play in Miami? Who is playing cornerback again? That o-line is awful.

    Other than that, sign me up.
     
  4. dcnr226

    dcnr226 A True Fan Donator

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    1- Who are the 2 backup players? John Jerry played well in games, and the regime is high on Samuda. Also, again, we still have 20 million in cap space if they wanted to sign a offensive lineman OR they could draft one to plug in. Maybe a 2nd rounder.
    2- i love Hartline. But you're really advocating Hartline over Jennings? I understand you're logic, but the 2 are not equal.
    3- Everything i've come to understand is that Clay's future is at FB. He is an h-back, and would in all likelihood be a competent FB. Jovorskie Lane is a better blocker, but Clay becomes a receiving option..and btw, how often does Green Bay run the ball? That's the offense we are trying to achieve.
    4- Eifert in the 1st
     
  5. dcnr226

    dcnr226 A True Fan Donator

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    We have 5 picks in the first 100, and 20 million in cap space in this scenario to address cornerback. You're forgetting that.
     
  6. Pat-London

    Pat-London A True Fan

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    Easy to gain yards between the 20's. It's producing in the red zone that is critical and Hartline simply has not produced - Avg 1 TD per 30.5 Catches. Jennings is at 1td every 8.01 catches and Wallace is a td per 7.34 catches.

    It's all about production. I like the aggressive approach of going after both Jennings and Wallace and completely agree that you need an Eifert to work inside. If they can get Clay to work more as a HB and work on his blocking - then there's a lot of talent out there. Although I'd like to see Fasano drop a few pounds and take over the H-Back role... he's got the level of intelligence and blocking skill to complement Eifert well.

    Additionally, this approach would work towards easing the pressure on the OL as you're forcing a lot of the back 7 to respect this, they won't be playing the run as much or sitting in the short zones, because you now have 3 players [Wallace, Jennings and Eifert] who can stretch the 3rd level of the defence.
     
  7. dcnr226

    dcnr226 A True Fan Donator

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    Fasano as an h-back is an intriguing notion i had not previously considered. Fasano being motioned to the offensive backfield to lead block, with Jennings and especially Wallace sitting on the outside would absolutely terrify opposing defenses....especially with Lamar Miller's speed.
     
  8. Penntastic

    Penntastic Well-Known Member

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    2 offensive td's from our wide receivers all year. pitiful ......i agree IF POSSIBE we should TRY to sign at least 2 of these players. (Wallace, Bowe, Jennings)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2013
  9. dcnr226

    dcnr226 A True Fan Donator

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    to expand on the parallels with the Miami Heat...

    Assume something of this magnitude happens...whose to say a veteran like Ed Reed doesn't see the aggressiveness of Ireland and decide to hop on (ala Ray Allen or Mike Miller), and finish his career where it started...in Miami? This is where he maintains a permanent residence, after all..
     
  10. dcnr226

    dcnr226 A True Fan Donator

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    Bess plus Wallace & Jennings would be a Bess we have never before seen. He'd effectively become what Wes Welker has become in New England...
     
  11. jd13

    jd13 Starter

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    I think adding Wallace and Jennings would be awesome especially since Hartline wants 6m/yr. That means your only paying a few more million for Jennings. It could be done.
     
  12. petefins

    petefins Go DOLPHINS

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    You're exactly right. A prime organization in our position/situation would go for both and they would Get both Wallace & Jennings. Hopefully Ireland/Ross can pull it off. We are the Miami Dolphins after all..
     
  13. dcnr226

    dcnr226 A True Fan Donator

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    You, sir, are damn right...
     
  14. MiamiNative0722

    MiamiNative0722 Banned Hammered

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    Go get both of these guys, trade up for Milliner, use the secound round pick on a tackle.
     
  15. MP-Omnis

    MP-Omnis Larry King, Antique Bandwagon

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    The Pat Riley effect is getting Jennings and Wallace and Ed Reed, but at 5 million a piece. Good GMs get good players to play for them. Pat Riley gets the best players to take a pay cut to play for him.
     
  16. dcnr226

    dcnr226 A True Fan Donator

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    He is able to do so 1- bc players want to play in South Florida and 2 - players want to play with Lebron. It wasn't necessarily the case before.

    Your point is valid tho, bc that's essentially what Bellichick does. It seems like Bellichick cuts WRs twice a year and they still wait around, hoping to get re-signed by the Pats. They also know that playing with Brady (Lebron) will cause their numbers to drastically increase.

    We haven't had that aura in a long time. With this cap space, with the solid, professional locker room we seem to have, with a QB that players rave about, and with a defense that, with the addition of a corner and pass rusher, can be all-world..that aura can be created again. Getting the 2 biggest fish on the market would go along way to transforming this franchise and setting Tannehill up for success..
     
  17. electrolyte

    electrolyte Banned Hammered

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    What Micky Arison did, was give the keys to the franchise to Pat Riley in 1995. Riley did the rest.

    That brought the Miami Heat the following things :

    Stability - the draft picks, trades, signings, are all the continuation of Riley's vision. No wasted picks/signings from Sparano's regime to Philbin's because the player is not their "kind of player"

    Credibility - Pat Riley was a legendary championship head coach before he came to Miami. All of his stories coaching Magic Johnson, Kareem, all of that comes to the Heat.

    Identity - Riley made sure the organization stood for WINNING and FAMILY. You come here to the Heat, you get treated well, you get treated with respect, and you can be sure this organization is doing everything to help you WIN championships.



    One of the biggest problems the Miami Dolphins have had, is the lack of stability. We went from the greatest coach of all time in Don Shula, and his very long tenure here in Miami, to then cutting all ties with him and his entire staff, and just handing everything to Jimmy Johnson. Jimmy replaced everyone, and then when he quit, left us with Wanny. It's been downhill ever since, changing regimes every few years. What the Dolphins should consider doing, is handing the reigns of the franchise to someone (maybe Philbin?)... exactly like the Patriots do with Bellicheck and the Heat do with Riley. Whoever that person is, has final word on EVERYTHING, and runs the entire show...... they don't answer to the owner, they answer to him (maybe Philbin?)

    As far as the other 2...... we already have an identity as a storied championship franchise, so we aren't the Los Angeles Clippers or the Detroit Lions here. The problem is, it was a long, long time ago and our staff has to get us back to winning football before we can polish and shine up our Dolphin logo to restore it's greatness. We have to start winning...... and the public relations issues we have had, and free agents thinking Ireland is a nightmare, well... that can be fixed too.
     
  18. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    Why not?

    [​IMG]

    :ponder:
     
  19. dcnr226

    dcnr226 A True Fan Donator

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    What? Why not Megatron? Do i think im playing Madden? I have no clue what you're getting at..

    ..i made a logical argument as to why they could and should pursue and try to land both. I'm looking for fellow fans to tell me where my logic fails, or if it holds up. You could opt to contribute, if you like. Or you could just confuse me by posting pictures of vide game covers.
     
  20. state06

    state06 A True Fan

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    I see what you are saying. Rather than giving Hartline (nice player, cannot score or keep his feet) 6 mil, sign Jennings for 8, then sign Wallace for 10. It is completely do-able. I dont see why people think signing hartline and one of the two(wallace, jennings) is something we will do but signing the 2 FA and letting hartline go is SO out of the picture. A risk you run is missing out on Wallace, as Jennings already seemingly reached out to Philbin.

    IF we miss out on wallace and hartline walks, we can draft a WR early. If we hit on both Jennings and Wallace, we still have all of our picks to daft CB DE TE LT and somemoney in FA.
     
  21. iwastherein72

    iwastherein72 Well-Known Member

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    Sign Wallace straight up and essentially trade Jennings for Hartline (let Hartline move on). Only about $2 or 3 million more and you have 2 elite guys at BOTH positions.

    Signing just Jennings is ridiculous, he's a 2 or 3 when we need a 1. Adding more slot/midrange guys makes as much sense as getting a letgo noonoo. But of course we did that so hold the phone guys. I'm sure ireland has the PERFECT solution such as going after ryan swope with our 2nd round pick. That would fix it ALL.... :rolleyes2:
     
  22. dolphinfanND

    dolphinfanND Rookie

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    I would rather see us pick up Jennings and Bowe . Jennings would be move chains and bowe would go up and get ball out of the air.
     
  23. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    Too many holes on this team, to concentrate 20mil on the outside. The OP, does alot of 'assume' ing in his post. Well in REAL life, the top dollar gets you the best players in the NFL, or the best FAs. Your analogy to basketball holds no water. NFL football players aren't guareented much of anything. Hence, when you are a FA, you go for your pay day.

    Add the risk of injury, and NYY type money to a 32yr old gets you in hot water. And there is this thing called the CAP. You are trying to build a house of cards. No depth.

    This team needs to concentrate on TE, WR, CB and the oline. But I guess we can assume this upcoming drafts 5th 6th and 7th round picks will all be starters. And will play at a high level.:crazy:
     
  24. Penntastic

    Penntastic Well-Known Member

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    Why not? with 47 million under the cap...its not very often you have a chance to sign 2 playmakers......sign Wallace for 10mil and Jennings for 9mil per yr. and move on.......
     
  25. dcnr226

    dcnr226 A True Fan Donator

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    1-You try and acquire Wallace & Jennings, and the "holes" at WR are gone. Jennings will make only a couple of million more than Hartline
    2-"Assuming" is one word. Feel free to use it accordingly.
    3-Paul Soliai turned down bigger money form the Broncos to stay in Miami
    4-How does "creating cap space", as Riley did and now Ireland has done, hold no water?
    5-Greg Jennings is 29, and I didn't know 8 million per year is "New York Yankees" money. Mike Wallace is 26, and his 10 million would net the Yankees a decent-to-good starting pitcher.
    6-CAP! Thank you! I completely forgot about the cap. You, seemingly, forgot that we have 40+ mil to spend..and although the CAP is the CAP, we have a plethora of draft picks to either draft talent or acquire talent from other teams.
    7-So drafting a WR is a safer bet than signing a proven one? Hmm.
    8-We have 5 picks in the first 100. So following your logic, we could use those picks to draft the positions your so worried about...and also draft backups and/or projects with our 5th, 6th, 7th rounders.

    :thanks:
     
  26. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    First off, I used the phrase "assume" ing on purpose. I know the difference I understand basic english literature and wording. Feel free to keep the grammar police to a minimum please.


    Also, I did put into context, that spending 20mil on the outside while many positions need to be filled is crazy. This team needs players at TE, CB and OLINE along w/ some quality depth. You cannot and will not do that with 20mil locked up on the outside. Soliai, was also tagged, making him one of the if not the highest paid NT. That helped ease his concerns in the long run financially. Jennings, and the other FAs will seek top dollar. Don't kid yourself. The assuming you did on their contracts is ... well I will leave that there.

    And with that CAP you need to build a team. A whole team. Depth at all positions. This 40mil you and others harp on, is fine and dandy. But you have to spend it wisely. Smiley ring any bells?

    So in short, while your hypothetical nonsense, is fine in Madden land. It has shown very little success in the modern day NFL.

    For the extra 10mil used on the outside, you can bring in a FA TE and OLINEman. While adding depth through the draft. Its about spending your money wisely. PITT and GB are both doing it now, by letting such players walk. TB on the other hand, was 'forced' to spend. Brought in a whole lot of FA's and the results were very comparable to what MIA did this year. Draft and develop. Fill multiple positions smartly with the money you have. Multiple as in, not just one position. Your hypothetical starting oline, is absolute trash. The goal is to put Tannehill in the best position to succeed. Having him with a oline comparable to the Bears line won't do that.

    When GB had Jennings, Driver and Nelson, did it stop them from DRAFTING more talent a WR? Depth. ITs what allows you to have continued success in the NFL.
     
  27. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    But I will stop now. THis topic is absurd on so many levels. Family, friends and food await. Everyone have a good day. And enjoy the SB.
     
  28. Dfan06

    Dfan06 Seasoned Veteran

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    It is really not that absurd as far as I am concerned because if you are going to resign Hartline and bring in Wallace/Greg Jennings, might as well spend a couple more millions to sign both of them.

    WR:Wallace/Jennings/Bess/Rishard Matthews
    FB: Charles Clay (this gives you more option on the fied).
    TE: Fasano(blocking) and a draftee.

    This would allow us to load up on defense through the draft(a DE, two CBs)
     
  29. dcnr226

    dcnr226 A True Fan Donator

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    lol C'mon bro. I really hope you weren't complaining about the lack of playmakers during the season. Now that we have a shot to be special we should take it...build through the draft for big men and defensive backs...get proven talent at skill positions, as drafting skill positions is obviously not Ireland's strength. Wallace and Jennings is possible, doable, and awesome. How anyone could not fall in love with the idea is beyond me.

    We are all Fin fans and a brotherhood..i didn't mean to sound condescending. But let's f'ing go big for once, we got a qb and a General in Philbin...lets take our shot with some young, proven studs.

    btw what a friggin game!
     
  30. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    Ertz is the best TE in this draft.
     
  31. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase

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    Football is not basketball.

    Cant compare the off seasons. Just a whole different spectrum.
     
  32. dcnr226

    dcnr226 A True Fan Donator

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    For the love of God it's about CAP SPACE. Riley created it with a vision, Ireland created it with a vision.
     
  33. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    Its not absurd at all, you're gonna get some idiots yelling "MADDEN!!" but in reality Jennings and Wallace are just players in a pool of free agents that we can easily afford to sign. Some of these same idiots want to sign Smith and Long, again the reality is Smith and Long are basically free agents at this point and will cost $18 million themselves. If you're going to spend $18 million on 2 free agents I'll take Wallace and Jennings over Smith and Long all day.
     
  34. dannysc305

    dannysc305 Well-Known Member

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    Guys, signing both Jennings and Wallace/Bowe is not out of reach, it is quite feasible actually...

    You're essentially swapping Jake Long (currently $11M), Brian Hartline ($1M), and their contracts out of the old offense for a new offense of Jennings and Wallace for about $6-7 million more, and a ****load of draft picks to address the hole moving Jake creates (which is actually at RT because Martin makes the move to the left. So Hartline gets swapped for Wallace + Jennings, save money letting Bush, Long, Fasano, Starks walk for younger cheaper alternatives Miller, Martin, Clay/Draft pick, Odrick.

    That leaves you with holes only at RB(depth), TE, RT, RG(optional), Pass Rusher, 2 CB's (If Smith Leaves), and S (If Clemons leaves)

    With about $25-30mil in Cap plus 1,2,2,3,3,4,5,7,7 draft picks to play with.

    If this offseason is properly executed, we should have a COMPLETE ROSTER with absolutely 0 GLARING HOLES, just some weak spots/depth issues but nothing major

    MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!
     
  35. Fin Thirteen

    Fin Thirteen FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Adding James, Wade and Bosh to the Heat upgrades 60% of the starting lineup to superstar status.

    Adding Jennings and Wallace to the Dolphins upgrades 16.66% of the starting offensive lineup to playmaker status. An offense being run by our talented if still developing QB behind an o-line being overhauled (again).

    See the difference?

    Not saying it's a bad idea, but the parallels are not that eerie and the outcome is not predestined to be the same. Free agency in basketball vs football is very very different.
     
  36. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase

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    Theres 53 other players on a football team.

    Basketball has 11. And is way more "superstar" dependent than the NFL.
     
  37. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Donator

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    Its definatly doable, BUT it would put alot of pressure on Ireland's draft. He'd have to absolutly HIT on starters with the first 5 picks in this draft to compensate for the money being sent to the WR position. Its a risk, part of me doesnt like that idea but if I came home one day and read that news on FH, I guess I'd fell pretty excited initially...
     
  38. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    You harp on playmakers, yet advocate the resigning of a mediocre on his best day, TE. This is where you lose all credibility in your hypothetical.
     
  39. johngarry

    johngarry "Mysterious" Super Donator Donator

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    k let's do it! let the 2013 season begin
     
  40. dcnr226

    dcnr226 A True Fan Donator

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    That was a different poster, not me. And i think everyone can agree that we'd love to keep Fasano as the #2 TE, but that we need to procure a seam threat TE as our #1.

    I know your dying to win this argument, but maybe you should just move on.
     

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