Signs point to trading a 3rd or 4th round pick

[Fin_Frenzy_84]

So trade a third now but not for Boldin...

 

[mdolp1]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/11/1524571/how-did-miami-dolphins-lose-out.html

Jeff Darlington - (The harsh road bump Clark's hasty departure has caused the team is a tough setback, but the Dolphins have since entered into a regrouping phase for several days, nowreevaluating how to address the safety position.
The team believes the first stage of free agency has concluded, and it is now in the stages of deciding whether to address the position through free agency or the draft. Miami is weighing all factors -- from a select number of restricted players to a thin, ordinary crop of remaining unrestricted players.
Those decisions are likely to come to light over the course of the next week).

You know based on the fact that Miami is on year 3 of the rebuilding stage and the amount of holes that we still have is pointing me to believe that Miami is be dealing our 3rd and/or 4th round picks. Why?

Because they need to 'ensure' that they come away with 4 "starters" from our top 4 rounds of the draft, that's why. And its not a probability that your 3rd and 4th round picks start in their rookie years, unless you are lucky.

History show that the most likely rounds to land your immediate starters are in the first 2 rounds of the draft. So that's why I can see the FO not wanting to give up those high picks. But after that, 3rd round and beyone its a lot more luck than the first 2 rounds.

But with all these holes still to fill at starter level with SOLB not having a starter right now, NT not having a starter (or at least no viable backup for the first 8 games), no starter at FS, no true big play WR in the starting lineup, no pass catching threat at starting TE, question mark at starting RG, no PR, etc. I would think that they are pondering opening up to moving a 3rd and/or 4th round picks or a 2011 pick and negociating with a team(s) for RFAs that can be starters at any of those positions.

I mean NT, FS, and SOLB absolutely do 'not' have starters currently. And one can argue the same thing with #1 'big play' WR spot and/or TE spot. So one can 'argue' that are roster is lacking 5 starters right now, at least 3 starters most definitely.

This leads me to believe that I am not going to be the least bit surprised if/when Miami sends the #74 pick or the #108 pick or a pick in 2011 for a RFA at one of the needed positions.

They could have already done this by trading for Anquan Bolden! I just don't understand the moves to date! I like the Dansby signing but releasing Wilson who I know did play horribly last year with no replacement in place made no sense, then knowing that ferguson is suspended for eight games and not signing a stop gap guy like Jamal Williams, to the whole Clark fiasco and then not even having any of the top free agent wr come in for a visit makes no sense! Overall for me it has been a very sad start to free agency and the 2010 season!:boohoo:

 

[MrEd]

So trade a third now but not for Boldin...

Well, I'd try my best to not deal that 3rd rounder, because there's still chance to land a starter or a pass catching TE with that one. I'm more inclined to let go of the 4th round pick for either a SOLB like Cliff Avril or in a throw in to help keep STL from matching our offer to Atogwe.

But if we had to let go of the 3rd rounder, then keep the 4th.

Again, as far as I'm concerned the #12 and #43 pick belong to NT and SOLB or vice-versa. So that #74 pick or #108 pick is a pass catching TE or a trade for Atogwe.

If we are able to trade for Cliff Avril, then we can open up a scenario of a FS at #12 with NT at #43, though Im nervous about not drafting Dan Williams at #12 because chances are getting bigger that both Cody and Cam Thomas may be gone by #43.

 

[MrEd]

They could have already done this by trading for Anquan Bolden! I just don't understand the moves to date! I like the Dansby signing but releasing Wilson who I know did play horribly last year with no replacement in place made no sense, then knowing that ferguson is suspended for eight games and not signing a stop gap guy like Jamal Williams, to the whole Clark fiasco and then not even having any of the top free agent wr come in for a visit makes no sense! Overall for me it has been a very sad start to free agency and the 2010 season!:boohoo:

Yeah but as Darlington reported, the FO is 'reevaluating jts strategy on finding Wilson's replacement at FS..." since striking out on both FS targets. Again, they obviously don't want a rookie FS. That's clear. Now they are realizing that in order to avoid a rookie FS, they are going to have to target an RFA and give up a draft pick somehow doing it.

 

[Tigers2003]

I would go the opposite direction, actually. This draft is so deep that a 3rd or 4th rounder might very well be good enough to start. I would say don't be surprised if Ginn and Camarillo are dealt for 3rd and 4th round picks respectively. Al Davis would snap up Ginn for a 3rd in a heartbeat. The problem is Camarillo and who needs a slot receiver; the only teams I can think of would be Ravens (who no longer have a pick that high) and the Chiefs, which is far more likely given the quid pro quo that this FO and theirs seem to have. Maybe entice them to throw a third in for Fasano and use that pick and a 2011 pick to trade up into the second round.

I agree that this draft is deep. On D I see SOLB or ILB (move Dansby to outside and draft ILB being a possiblity), FS, and NT as big needs. To get young guys who could walk in or challenge to be starters at those many positions they may have to make ONE trade. What I don't want is too much trading of picks; the type of crap that went on when Spielman/Wanny was calling shots.

As far as Ginn for a 3rd I could see the senile one out west pulling that due to his love for WRs with measurables to stretch the field. Some clubs out there may see value in Fasano too.

 

[NRA]

You can't risk that, which is why I believe Dan Williams is the choice at #12.

MR.ED: why would the fins, who are in need of a starting wr, a safety and a NT
pic a 4-3 DT? we dont need a dt. and i am probably the only guy here that
wouldnt snivel at cody with our first choice as he is the ONLY real nt in this
draft. a few prospects, yes, but experianced, dominant nt's? maybe 2. cody
being the run away choice.

why would you draft a dt at #12? we dont run a 4-3. and even that is iffy as
he doesnt have real good strength [only 22 reps at the combine on the bench.]

did you mean some one else?

 

[NRA]

I don't want is too much trading of picks; the type of crap that went on when Spielman/Wanny was calling shots

.

WE DONT HAVE wanny calling the shots anymore. that is what the problem was,
not the giving of pics, but the guy who was deciding on the pics and who to give
them up for.

speilman is just doing to good of a job in minny to put much blame there. remember,
wanny had FULL personel control and last word for just about ALL of his time in
miami.

we dont have him anymore. in this age of the nfl, free agency is VITAL to a teams
growth and longevity. you just have to have people in your organization who know
what talent is.

you dont chop down the fruit tree because the workers brought in only rotten fruit.

you fire the workers and bring in ones who know how to recognise rotten fruit and not
to pic it!! you dont quit harvesting fruit!

wanny really fugged up the heads of fin fans. not only did he put the team 10 years back with bad moves, bad drafts and lousy assistants, but he has fans not wanting
to make a single move anymore other than picking at there given spot in the draft.

 

[Roman529]

Wouldn't it make a lot more sense trading down our first round pick to pick up an extra 2nd rounder and then using one of them to get a Safety or whatever are biggest need is as that time? Trading a 3rd or 4th rounder isn't likely to bring us anything of quality or a starter so why do it?

 

[Hellweed]

I'd take a 3rd for Ginn in a heartbeat. Talk about finding his replacement? Don't read into it that lofty elusive "potential". Replacing what he's actually producing could be done by accident.

 

[Krush]

The way I see thing is everybody have a knee jerk reaction when other teams sign players, brodney pool! are you kiddin' he wasn't mentioned in the first wave of free agency, so you bring in the 6th or 7th rated player at posisistion because you couldn't get #1 or # 2, I believe that if you're really sold on a guy then go get him or wait for your # or 2 In the draft, if they need a FS then go get him with your 2nd or 3rd round selection, and paying top dollars for a scrub who had 2ints last season.

 

[emeraldfin]

Yeah but as Darlington reported, the FO is 'reevaluating jts strategy on finding Wilson's replacement at FS..." since striking out on both FS targets. Again, they obviously don't want a rookie FS. That's clear. Now they are realizing that in order to avoid a rookie FS, they are going to have to target an RFA and give up a draft pick somehow doing it.

Ok, just say the FO are looking towards moving a 3rd or 4th rounder for either a Safety or WR, then who would you go for?

Since you are more reluctant to move the 3rd round pick, then I cant see us getting a whole lot sending a 4th rounder. If you want to get starter material, then we will have to move at least a 2nd rounder for someone like Sensabaugh.

Also I dont see the value in trying to trade away picks when two quality FA's are still out there in Sharper and Atogwe. Until they get signed, then I would keep trying to get them in Miami.

 

[MrEd]

MR.ED: why would the fins, who are in need of a starting wr, a safety and a NT
pic a 4-3 DT? we dont need a dt. and i am probably the only guy here that
wouldnt snivel at cody with our first choice as he is the ONLY real nt in this
draft. a few prospects, yes, but experianced, dominant nt's? maybe 2. cody
being the run away choice.

why would you draft a dt at #12? we dont run a 4-3. and even that is iffy as
he doesnt have real good strength [only 22 reps at the combine on the bench.]

did you mean some one else?

No, I meant the NT Dan Williams. The one that Mike Mayock affirmed is the #1 "NT" prospect in the draft. That one. Not a 4-3 DT like Suh or McCoy, a 3-4 NT like Dan Williams. Yeah, that one. You know, the one who is 6'2" and weighs 320LBS? The NT one.

 

[MrEd]

Ok, just say the FO are looking towards moving a 3rd or 4th rounder for either a Safety or WR, then who would you go for?

Since you are more reluctant to move the 3rd round pick, then I cant see us getting a whole lot sending a 4th rounder. If you want to get starter material, then we will have to move at least a 2nd rounder for someone like Sensabaugh.

Also I dont see the value in trying to trade away picks when two quality FA's are still out there in Sharper and Atogwe. Until they get signed, then I would keep trying to get them in Miami.

Atogwe is the very one I'm talking about. Right now, his tender doesn't require 'any' compensation. But the whole league plus our great great grandparents know that STL will match any offer.

So my suggestion is if we aren't going to poison pill the offer, then we need to overpay him and offer ourselves a pick to help convince STL not to match. Thus the 3rd or 4th round pick idea.

The other idea would be a 4th rounder for Cliff Avril.

 

[MrEd]

Wouldn't it make a lot more sense trading down our first round pick to pick up an extra 2nd rounder and then using one of them to get a Safety or whatever are biggest need is as that time? Trading a 3rd or 4th rounder isn't likely to bring us anything of quality or a starter so why do it?

Problem with that is who the heck would want to trade up to #12? Not an easy task. Very slim chance we get anyone to trade up to #12.

 

[qmar]

Trading Ginn Jr for a 3rd round pick would be, in my opinion, foolish. Why? Because then you 'force' yourself, just as we have done with the FS spot, to have no choice but to land a starter at that spot, even if their isn't anything desirable left.

Ginn's starting spot is not the position you want to get rid of without landing his replacement, FIRST. Why? Because Bryant is 'likely' not to be there at #12 to replace him. And if he is, you lose out on landing a starting NT, or at least now put yourself at the russian roulette of hoping Cody or Cam Thomas isn't drafted before #43, which is very likely to happen. You can't risk that, which is why I believe Dan Williams is the choice at #12.

Then, as is likely, if Bryant goes before #12, are you now forced to draft Benn or Demaryius Thomas at #12? Because they will not be there at #43. So Ginn can't be traded until you see what has happened with the draft, first.

Yes, I can see Ginn traded before the draft...but only in a trade with another pick for his replacement.

I'm just not sure where I see Ginn starting. Starting WR's should be Cam and Hartline on the outside with Bess as our slot. Are you saying Ted Ginn is our #1 and a starting WR?

That being said, there is no way we will get a 3rd round pick for Ginn. The guy is a hit or miss KR and a #4 WR.