Slimm's 2015 Quarterbacks (Seniors)

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by TedSlimmJr, Apr 3, 2014.

  1. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    1. Bryce Petty / Baylor / 6'3", 230

    2. Shane Carden / East Carolina / 6'2", 218

    3. Connor Halliday / Washington St. / 6'4", 190

    4. Jake Waters / Kansas St. / 6'1", 215

    5. Cody Fajardo / Nevada / 6'3", 220

    6. Hutson Mason / Georgia / 6'3", 209

    7. Garrett Grayson / Colorado St. / 6'2", 220

    8. Sean Mannion / Oregon St. / 6'5", 220

    9. Taylor Heinicke / Old Dominion / 6'1", 205

    10. Rakeem Cato / Marshall / 5'11", 171

    11. Dylan Thompson / South Carolina / 6'3", 218

    12. Blake Sims / Alabama / 6'0", 208

    13. Bo Wallace / Ole Miss / 6'4", 220

    14. Blake Frohnapfel / UMASS / 6'6", 229

    15. Cody Sokol / Louisiana Tech / 6'2", 215

    16. Michael Nebrich / Fordham / 6'1", 205

    17. Taylor Kelly / Arizona St. / 6'2", 201







    The following are athletes that will make the transition to another position:

    1. Nick Marshall / Auburn / 6'1", 210
    [​IMG]


    (Originally committed to Georgia to play defensive back. He's such a tremendous athlete, everyone believed he was the next Champ Bailey when he committed to play DB at Georgia. Speed and elusiveness makes him a threat in Gus Malzahn's zone read. Could play any number of positions, but QB won't be one at the next level. Which applies for all 3 listed here.)

    2. Braxton Miller / Ohio St. / 6'2", 215

    3. Brandon Bridge / South Alabama / 6'5", 235

    4. Devin Gardner / Michigan / 6'4", 210
     

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  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Purely on film, I'm not sure there's a single one of those QBs that looks more intriguing than Rakeem Cato. His biggest negative is something you find on paper as opposed to film...the 6'0" & 188 lbs listing. Cato is a drum I've been beating all season and I expect that drum beat to get even louder next year. He lost Gator Hoskins but still has Tommy Shuler, Essray Taliaferro, Steward Butler, Kevin Grooms, Craig Wilkins and Devin Smith. And the TE that was grooming behind Gator looks decent enough for a guy like Cato to use, Eric Frohnapfel.

    Cato consistently spins a great ball, yet gets really good touch on his passes. I suspect it's because he's so good with his shoulder aiming but I'm no expert in that area. People will bring up the height but the way he carries himself truly maximizes every fraction of an inch of that height and the delivery looks great from that standpoint. I don't see him missing his reads from inside the pocket the way Johnny Manziel does, for example. He has plenty of athletic ability to move around and makes unbelievable plays doing so, but he's smart about it like Russell Wilson. He does NOT take punishment. Sift through all the tape and that's something that should pop out at the viewer, he's great at making sure he doesn't take punishment despite the fact he regularly uses his feet and athleticism as a weapon.

    One could argue that over-reliance on Tommy Shuler is holding him back a little, but it's hard to argue the results. Those two have been playing together since grade school. They went up against a damn good VT defense and came pretty close to beating them.

    Like I said if you were just tossing aside all of the prototypes and everything, which I'm not saying anyone should do as they're important...I'm not sure any guy on the list of seniors looks as exciting and talented as Cato.
     
  3. futurescout

    futurescout Well-Known Member

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    I'm doing a brief look at the 2015 class now. I'm saving QB's for last, but I will definitely be giving Cato a look.
     
  4. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    I'm not a big fan of Cato. I look at him a little bit like I did Tyler Russell this time last year, except Cato obviously doesn't have that type of size. Difference beig Cato is draftable where I didn't necessarily feel like Russell was.

    Chuckie Keeton is the interesting one for me in terms of a kid that I believe has beren sneaking around under everyone's radar. Probably going all the way back to his freshman year.
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I think the only common factor between Tyler Russell and Rakeem Cato is the fact that I liked both guys at the same stage of the process (prior to their final year). On the field I'm not sure how they're similar.

    What I fell for in Russell was the big NFL throws especially at intermediate depths (measured from the LOS). The accuracy for him on those throws was pro caliber. I was hoping he would make better decisions his final year as that was a clear area for potential improvement for him. I tend to be forgiving of some weaknesses in a guy before he gets to his final year because the reality is a lot of these guys keep getting better and better. He never did that.

    I still think velocity, accuracy and spin on those 25 to 35 yard (straight line) distances are important in translating to the NFL but nowadays it's not enough. The NFL is phasing that out. Some quarterbacks that pose no danger against a successful rush have been grandfathered in so to speak because they'd already been in the league long enough to where their depth of understanding outweighs the lack of athletic ability. But it's getting harder for pocket passers to come into the NFL, survive and thrive based on pocket sense, discipline and coaching alone...as opposed to innate ability to make people miss and be dangerous in extended time situations. The college game has been phasing a lot of those guys out for a long time and Tyler Russell certainly got caught up in that as his skill set didn't fit that offense at all.

    Rakeem Cato is different. He's just a different quarterback. He doesn't have the same arm on those NFL throws as Tyler Russell to be honest, although I think he's got a pretty good arm and spins a good ball. The quality that Cato has that Russell never touched is the genuine ability to handle pass rushers and throw strikes after extending the play. But unlike Manziel, he's very smart about taking contact. He'll steal base and run for first downs but he doesn't push it. He goes out of bounds, slides, gets the ball out. I would normally be pretty worried about a guy with his skinny frame if not for that awareness and wherewithal to consistently avoid contact.

    The way they operate that offense I wouldn't be surprised if Rakeem Cato sticks his nose in Heisman discussions. I noticed Vegas put him on the list of a couple dozen hopefuls that you can bet futures on for the Heisman.
     
  6. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Well there's a lot of quarterbacks that are going to be in the Heisman field discussion at this point. You'll even find Navy's quarterback in there somewhere. Cato is a great fit for Marshall's offense and he's going to put up big numbers, although I suppose he doesn't spark my interest as an NFL quarterback. But that's just me. I think him and Carden are easily the top two QB's in C-USA. I like Carden better and have him graded as a 3rd rounder. Probably find him somewhere in that Heisman field also.

    The reality is none of these QB's we're talking about here have a shot at winning the Heisman Trophy. All you have to do is look at their schedules.

    I know people love to look for the next Russell Wilson type qualities in an underrated quarterback, I just believe a kid like Chuck Keeton is closer to resembling that than Rakeem Cato.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    List I'm talking about consists of Jameis Winston, Braxton Miller, Marcus Mariota, Bryce Petty, Todd Gurley, Brett Hundley, Everett Golson, T.J. Yeldon, Melvin Gordon, Mike Davis, Derrick Henry, Nick Marshall, Connor Cook, Trevor Knight, Ameer Abduallah, Sean Mannion, Taylor Kelly, Dak Prescott, Duke Johnson, Karlos Williams, Myles Jack, Matt Johnson and Rakeem Cato...listed in order of odds.

    Pretty good company. No Navy quarterbacks.

    Matt Johnson is a nice add-on to the list strictly because of Dino Babers. You're right that schedule makes it hard to bet on any player not on a championship caliber team.

    It's not that I'm trying to figure out the next Russell Wilson with Rakeem Cato. It's that I watched a lot of 2013 football and I'll be damned if that Marshall quarterback wasn't making a sh-t ton of pretty throws and plays making defenses look foolish including some pretty good ones like Virginia Tech. I wanted to dismiss him because of the size, not the other way around. The throws won't let me.

    I mean this is just a fun video to watch:

    [video=youtube;lJ0NJV175es]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ0NJV175es[/video]
     
  8. FearTheBeard

    FearTheBeard FearTheBurke

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    I like this call...he popped the first time I watched him...it was a bowl game, feel like they were playing Maryland or something. He's a guy I'm gonna look forward to watching in depth because I think he's overlooked and I think he has some of those qualities that don't show up on tape. Chuckie Keeton is another guy who's worth watching.
     
  9. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    It's a fun video to watch.... Pat White's touchdowns at WV were a lot of fun to watch too. I just think Marshall's offense is fun to watch.

    On one hand the list is pretty good company. On the other hand there's kids like Trevor Knight who's played exactly one good game in his life.... and that was the game of his life that he played against Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. But just to be fair and not hypocritical, the same applies to Derrick Henry.

    I like the Matt Johnson kid from Bowling Green. I believe he's #6 at the moment on my list of underclassman quarterbacks. Although I'd be extremely surprised if he declared early for the 2015 draft.
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I like Chuckie Keaton's playing speed. Really above-board in that area.

    There are some details that exacerbate the funkiness with his release. One of them is his height which I wouldn't be shocked to come out at 6'1". Low release plus deficient height, can be a bad combination.

    Keep wanting to see real NFL throws. Would love to see him open his hips and hit the sideline from far hash but with that release he's got like the funky buttlovin kid from Rookie of the Year, not sure that's happening. When he gets the ball 20+ yards up the field it's usually straight up the field so it's actually only a 22 yard throw or some such. When he throws bigger throws to the sideline they're all vertical touch passes. When he's on the run you feel like he's really limited in what targets he can choose because of the way he throws the ball.

    Love that playing speed, heck of a performer, but not sure he can throw from different platforms.
     
  11. CO-Gator

    CO-Gator They all float down here. Finheaven VIP

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    :lol: What's the matter Slimm? You don't like Jeff Driskel?
     
  12. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    All jokes aside, I can't understand how I can look at a team like Duke and see better skill position talent on offense than I do at the U of Florida. It's absurd and not supposed to happen. Gators need to get this remedied quick fast and in a hurry. There's no excuse for it.
     
  13. CO-Gator

    CO-Gator They all float down here. Finheaven VIP

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    If we go 7-5 this season like I'm expecting, I think that remedy will come quite soon.

    One other thing, the NCAA seriously needs to consider changing that medical redshirt rule. They just granted Driskel another year of eligibility because he went down in the third game of last season. It's not fair that we get stuck with him for a whole extra season just because he didn't get hurt later.
     
  14. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Looked pretty bad against Tennessee
     
  15. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    To be fair it was his first game back from an ACL tear. He didn't play that bad, they were just that overmatched from a speed, talent, and physicality standpoint.

    Keeton threw some really good passes into tight coverage that receivers just flat out dropped due to intimidation. Tennessee hasn't flown around the field like that on defense in several years.

    Special teams put him in a 14-0 hole fumbling kickoffs.

    When he would get the ball out to his skill position players in space, they couldn't make a single tackler miss. The first defender there would always make the tackle. Utah St. was simply that outmatched on the perimeter.

    He'll get better as he knocks the rust off and gets in a better frame of mind psychologically with the knee. But he still won't have much help. His receivers and backs really let him down against the Vols. They just can't matchup against all those athletes Tennessee had on defense.

    They knew it early in the game and were intimidated by it. Go look at the slant that the receiver dropped with Ladarrell McNeil bearing down him. They got popped anyway...but they weren't going to catch the ball.
     
  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    One of the things that was so special about Jameis Winston's 2013 season was how good he was on 3rd down. He converted 52.6% of 3rd downs on which he ran or threw the ball (including sacks). The rest of the quarterbacks range around 35% to 45%.

    But perhaps most incredible is that he converted 59.4% of his 3rd & 10+ situations.

    I think that is a situation where, especially nowadays when the NFL is coveting dual-threat quarterbacks, you catch a glimpse of a guy's true play-making skill at that position. Cody Fajardo is damn close to automatic on 3rd & Under-10 at 55.3%. But when he gets to 3rd & 10+, he is lost and only converted 12.5% of those situations.

    But Jameis Winston could keep converting regardless of the situation. That hasn't translated yet this year as Winston is really only converting 33% of his 3rd downs, but it's a small sample size thus far so who knows what it will be by the end.

    One thing I love about Rakeem Cato so much is his reliability on 3rd down. Heading into this year he converted 47% of his 3rd downs which in this quarterbacks class is second only to Jameis Winston. He also converted 34% of his 3rd & 10+ situations which again is second only to Jameis Winston. He converts 52% of his 3rd & Under-10 situations which is third behind Cody Fajardo and Chuckie Keeton.

    If you average the 3rd & 10+ and 3rd & Under-10 conversion rates, basically you get Jameis Winston...some space...Rakeem Cato...some more space...then Kevin Hogan, Chuckie Keeton, Connor Cook, Shane Carden, etc.

    Heading into this year Rakeem Cato had a 109.0 passer rating on 3rd & 4th down.

    This year he's actually got a 114.8 passer rating on 3rd & 4th down and has converted 53.8% of his 3rd downs, including 50.0% of his 3rd & 10+ situations. He's really just getting better. I know some folks will question his 58% completion but they'll be remiss if they don't pay attention to his absurd 18.3 yards per completion, 10.6 yards per attempt, and incredibly high 3rd down conversion rate. He profiles as a guy that is pushing the football up the field because he's running a high octane offense and they're piling on the points, but when he needs to move the sticks he does so better than all but a few quarterbacks out there.
     
  17. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Slimm and CK,

    Who were your top Quarterbacks last year?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2014
  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Bridgewater, Bortles, Garoppolo, Manziel, Carr. In that order if I remember right. I may have stuck Carr above Manziel, whom I picked on a lot.

    I had Bortles and Garoppolo #2 and #3 in the class back in October/November. That was before Bridgewater fell out of favor.
     
  19. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I just really love the combination of arm talent, football instincts, and athleticism of Carr. He actually ran the same 40 as Manziel and had a 41 yard run on a zone read keeper vs Houston Sunday. He also has a QB rating of 80 right now, which is impressive considering he plays with the worst roster in football.

    I understand some knocked him down because of his brother, the at times erratic play under pressure, that he didn't always throw from a balanced platform, and his deep ball accuracy. Which I didn't think was that bad. It's OK but not it's not terrible. He also improved substantially under pressure in 2013 compared to previous years.

    I believe he is a franchise QB. And I think he can be every bit as good as Cutler. Regardless, his value was much better than Bortles or Manziel as far as where he was picked.

    I bet Dave Caldwell wishes he had Sammy Watkins and Derek Carr instead of Blake Bortles and Marqise Lee. Then again, this is the same guy who drafted the 4th best offensive tackle in the draft at #2 overall so he could trade a top 10 LT for midround picks when he had all the money in the world to re-sign him.
     
  20. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    I liked David Fales, Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles, Carr, Garroppolo.

    Liked Keith Wenning, Aaron Murray, Zach Mettenberger, Jeff Mathews and Tom Savage as developmental QB's. Didn't like Tajh Boyd, McCarron, Logan Thomas, or Connor Shaw.
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Gotta say I'm actually really intrigued with Hutson Mason. He's not going to wow you with his physical ability to make plays but he gets that football out of his hands very quickly and makes excellent decisions, is very accurate, feet very in tune with his eyes. We haven't seen him really drive the football at need or make physically impressive plays but that doesn't mean he can't. Inconclusive on whether or not he's a play-maker but man does he read the field and get that ball out.
     
  22. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Blake Sims throws one of the best deep balls in all of football. That includes pros.

    Secondly, he makes throws into tight coverage that I had no idea he could make. Neither did Lane Kiffin or Nick Saban. He's literally improving two fold everytime he takes the field from the week before. It's really something to watch. He looks nothing like the quarterback I saw in the spring. Very similar to Everett Golson's upward arc, and how he looks nothing like the quarterback from 2 years ago.
     
  23. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Pre-season I don't think he would have even been a camp arm. Now, he's a legit day 3 pick. I don't expect him to go much higher than that, but still. All you heard all off-season was how Coker was going to take over.
     
  24. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I forgot about Chuckie Keeton coming off the ACL. I'm joining the fan club.
     
  25. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    He's probably going to take a medical redshirt this year. He just didn't look the same against Tennessee.
     
  26. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Didn't he re-injure the same knee vs. Wake Forest? I saw he left the game with an injury.
     
  27. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Yes, the coaching staff is probably going to evaluate him in practice and determine if the medical RS is the best option.
     
  28. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Good backup who can win you some games at the next level. Poor man's Russell Wilson. I have a 3rd Round grade on him.
     
  29. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Yep, I had a top 75 grade on him heading into the season. If he hadn't injured his knee and sustained the level of play that he always had, I think he could've acheived a selection in the 3rd round range. I think that's most likely out the window for him now.

    If he takes a medical RS and comes back next year healthy and playing at a high level, 4th round or so is acheivable.
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    In my opinion, Rakeem Cato continues to be dreadfully underrated.
     
  31. WVDolphan

    WVDolphan Banned Hammered

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    I have watched him play quite a few times. He could definitely be a serviceable NFL QB. IMHO, he is better than the garbage that is being touted as top picks like Winston, Mariota, and Hundley.

    I think Cato could be a bit better than Leftwich was coming out of Marshall. Not as good as Pennington, but not bad either. He is a good QB.
     
  32. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    Clint Trickett needs more attention too.
     
  33. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    Bryce Petty blows.
     
  34. WVDolphan

    WVDolphan Banned Hammered

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    I watched Bryce Petty again today and I just do not understand all of the hype. He honestly reminds me of Tannehill a bit.

    You really have to be careful about hyping up college QBs with big passing stats. There are just too many college games where teams with big offenses, especially some of the spread offenses, go against teams with absolutely no ability on defense. When guys are wide open by 10 yards, it is tough to know if a QB is legit or not. You have to see these guys in games where defenses are putting pressure on them and they are required to make throws with anticipation and hit tight windows, because that is what it takes to play QB in the NFL.

    I just do not see how Petty can play QB in the NFL. When he faced some legitimate defense today he was throwing misfires all over the place and making poor decisions while getting hurried a lot.
     
  35. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    Petty has slow feet. RT is ten times the athlete. Not comparable.

    Connor Cook looks like the real deal.

    I will keep beating the drums for Clint Trickett. Not a round one guy, but I see smart reads and accuracy all over the field.
     
  36. WVDolphan

    WVDolphan Banned Hammered

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    Listen Hayden. I like Trickett. There is a lot to like about that young man. He is tough as nails. He is a good college player. But, use common sense. He literally weighs about 150lbs and has some medical issue that prevents him from putting any real weight on.
     
  37. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase

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    None of the qbs this year look great tbh.

    Winston is a good qb no doubt, but he's struggled more this year than I thought he would've. I'd still love his talent on this team.

    None of the seniors look better than Tannehill does right now. Sad really, Miami more than likely needs a qb.
     
  38. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Shane Carden does. His accuracy, poise, and ability to read coverages and anticipate throws are all advanced for the next level. He's just limited in terms of arm strength. Reminds me a lot of Andy Dalton.

    The rest of the Senior class are backups and spot starters in the NFL.
     
  39. MiamiDolphin618

    MiamiDolphin618 A True Fan

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    Very good comp for Carden. He reminded me of Pennington but I like the Dalton comp as well. I think he ends up a 2nd round steal for someone
     
  40. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase

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    I'll have to watch him closely the rest of the year.

    ndy Dalton is a good qb, I want great in Miami. Winston is great.
     

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