Slimm's 2015 Quarterbacks (Underclassman)

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by TedSlimmJr, Apr 4, 2014.

  1. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    1. Jameis Winston / Florida St. / 6'4", 227

    [​IMG]

    (Everybody knows about Jameis Winston now that he's a national champion, became only the second freshman ever to win the Heisman Trophy (Johnny Manziel), and unfortunately for being in the news off the field. However, a lot of football coaches knew this kid was going to be a good one a long time ago.

    I know we wanted this hometown kid badly at Alabama, but Winston never considered going to an SEC school because of baseball. I was actually able to break down his film at Hueytown on Hudl.com in preparation for the 5-A State Playoffs in 2011. Hueytown was about to face Vigor, with the winner advancing to the state championship game to play us (Hartselle). Vigor defeated Winston and Hueytown, and we went on to defeat Vigor 13-3 in the state championship and complete an unblemished 15-0 season.

    What I noticed about Winston that stood out perhaps even beyond the physical gifts that made him a 5-Star recruit, were his advanced on the field intangibles for a high school Senior. These kind of intangibles are the type that only come from studying the finer details of playing the position as a young child. These intangibles are exactly what allowed him to accomplish all that he did as a freshman on the football field for Florida St. There were moments in that national title game against Auburn where Winston looked overwhelmed and unsettled for the first time....ever. He'd never seen anything like that before in the ACC. Yet again, those same intangibles allowed him to settle back in and seize control of the football game... and lead his team to a clutch game winning touchdown drive with it all on the line. Bottom line is that Jameis Winston is a splendid two sport athlete that should be ready to be the #1 overall pick in the 2015 NFL Draft.)




    2. Brett Hundley / UCLA / 6'3", 222

    3. Marcus Mariota / Oregon / 6'4", 215

    4. Connor Cook / Michigan St. / 6'4", 218

    5. Nate Sudfeld / Indiana / 6'5", 230

    6. Cody Kessler / USC / 6'1", 215

    7. Matt Johnson / Bowling Green / 6'0", 215

    8. Joe Licata / Buffalo / 6'2", 227






    The following are athletes possibly, or in most cases likely to make a position switch at the next level:

    1. Trevone Boykin / TCU / 6'2", 215

    2. Dak Prescott / Mississippi St. / 6'3", 230

    3. Taysom Hill / BYU / 6'2", 221

    4. Vernon Adams / Eastern Washington / 5'11", 190

    5. Everett Golson / Notre Dame / 6'0", 190
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2014
  2. futurescout

    futurescout Well-Known Member

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    Isn't Jameis staying for at least another year? Interested on your take of Hundley over Mariota.. albeit not a big fan of either of them.
     
  3. RobertHorry

    RobertHorry Scout Team

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    How is Cody Kessler on your list?

    I went to USC for grad school for 2 years and was there during Kessler's time. I'm interested in hearing your opinion. He is not an NFL QB at all in my opinion.
     
  4. mrbunglez

    mrbunglez Reading Is Fundamental Donator

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    I'll be watching Marcus Mariota intently this year. Nohomo.
     
  5. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    I don't think he's an NFL quarterback in the sense that he's a high draft pick, or even a serious candidate to come out early. He's an NFL quarterback in the same sense that John David Booty was coming out of USC. Kessler won't come out early. He'll stay for his Senior season and be a 5th-7th round pick in the 2016 Draft.

    I make these more for me than anything else. I'll bet high that he gets a shot at the NFL in exactly the manner I just explained. He can play a little bit... and still has 2 full seasons ahead of him to improve and get better.
     
  6. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    I doubt Winston stays for another year once the #1 overall pick talk heats up. There's no reason for him to stay another year. He's already won a Heisman Trophy and a national title.

    I suppose I'd be interested in hearing someone's take of Mariota over Hundley. Hundley is a more accurate passer. Period.
     
  7. futurescout

    futurescout Well-Known Member

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    Decision making. Don't think there is a huge difference between the two. But Mariota takes good care of the football.

    ---------- Post added at 02:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:51 AM ----------

    Connor Cook is an interesting name on the list. Got a lot better as the season went on. They should make a serious run for the big 10 again this year.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    From an interception standpoint perhaps Mariota takes care of the football but from a fumbling standpoint he doesn't. Seems like every time I sit down to watch Mariota play, he's fumbling the ball twice in the game. Two sack-fumbles in the Texas game. Two sack-fumbles in the Washington State game. Two sack-fumbles in the Stanford game. Two fumbles in the UCLA game although to be fair one was just a bad snap that he failed to corral, but the other was a sack-fumble by Anthony Barr. Fumbled in the first half against Arizona in the loss. Fumbled on a 3 yard loss against Oregon State.

    I actually wanted to get some opinions on Mariota because I understand that he's very productive and he's got great speed, quick release, quick enough feet and he throws a nice ball although the accuracy is off sometimes...but from where I'm sitting whenever I sit down and watch the tape I'm almost tempted to call him a faster version of Blaine Gabbert when it comes to his pocket and pressure tendencies. There's form there, the product of coaching and practice, but not substance.

    Gabbert used to run from ghosts a lot and I thought maybe that wouldn't necessarily be an indictment of his pocket sense, that perhaps it's just the internal clock thing or perhaps the way he was coached in that offense. That didn't end up being right. I see some of the same with Mariota and when you put it together with his constant fumbling (especially relative to the amount of real pressure in the pocket he faced at Oregon which is to say NOT MUCH), it's kind of scary.
     
  9. WVDolphan

    WVDolphan Banned Hammered

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    The top 3 on your list there are all soon to be draft busts.

    Cook is a good player.
     
  10. Fin Thirteen

    Fin Thirteen FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Ditto on Cook. He's the kind of player I'd say Bill Lazor would love to coach up. Kid has a lot of the tools to make it at the pro level. Processes the field quicker than most, which is big.
     
  11. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    On the field, Winston needs to clean up his footwork and shorten that windup a bit to quicken his release. He wont be able to do that as long as he's playing baseball and pitching for FSU.

    He has a bit of a windup which is consistent with QB's who play baseball. They'll help him shorten that release and make it a hair quicker once he gets to the NFL. His instincts, football IQ, playmaking ability, and rare physical talent are all special. A lot of people don't understand how special.

    Brett Hundley is going to have to go to the NFL just to get out of taking a beating every week. That offensive line is as bad as a QB can be asked to play behind. Just awful.

    He was sacked 87 times over his freshman and sophomore seasons. More than any other QB. They picked up right where they left off in the first game of the year against Virginia last week. He was sacked 5 times. The transfer from Miami, Malcolm Bunche, looked terrible.

    All the sacks have affected Hundley too. He's feeling phantom pressure now.
     
  12. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I know he isn't draft eligible until 2016, but I just thought I would comment about Christian Hackenberg.

    His play speed has been very impressive for the last 2 games (UCF 2014, Wisconsin 2013). Unlike many young quarterbacks, he works through his progressions very quickly and doesn't get caught on a read waiting to break open. His footwork is OUTSTANDING, very light feet, rhythm, is balanced at the top of his drops, transfers his weight from front to back, and steps into his throws. As mechanically sound in both the upper and lower body as you will find a college QB. Then there is the arm. I would say he has A+ arm talent. Great arm strength (which leads to his biggest weakness that I will address in a moment), accuracy to all 3 levels (love his deep ball), and has a very quick, compact, snappy release. Has a rare understanding of ball placement for a QB with his lack of experience. Notably his ball placement on flanker smoke screens, he sets up his WRs for a lot of YAC. Against UCF really like where he located that seam throw to Jesse James where he looked off the post safety(free safety, or middle of the field safety) and placed it right where James could hang on after the big hit. Also I liked the location he put on a stick route to James where James was unable to come up with it. He is meticulous with his ability to sell play action fakes that look identical to his hand offs, which is no surprise given his very high effectiveness using play action. His athleticism is also underrated. No one will mistake him for Cam Newton or RGIII, but he can escape pressure, and does so without dropping his eye level, and has the mobility to throw on the run on boots, and sprint outs. He shows a high level of touch, timing, anticipation, and will throw receivers open. I would say his biggest weakness is that of many gunslingers with great arm strength. He trusts his arm a bit too much. I think he is still learning what windows to test, what he can get away with and what will be intercepted. For example, the 2nd INT against UCF he has to know that he is losing velocity throwing on the move not being able to step into the throw and tests a very tight window. Overall I would say his decision making is good, especially for a young QB, he just needs to learn when to gun it in a tight window, and when to toss it out of bounds. I think that will happen in time. All in all I think he has the potential to be the best Quarterback in the NFL one day. If he doesn't become an Elite starter, or at the very least a top 10 NFL starter I don't know what one looks like.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2014
  13. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    [video=youtube;S7TyoFNHlMU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7TyoFNHlMU[/video]


    [video=youtube;V-1lP-2Hc4E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1lP-2Hc4E[/video]
     
  14. finsfanjay13

    finsfanjay13 Rookie Donator

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    I don't remember if it was here or somewhere else, but someone predicted that before Hackenberg even stepped foot on campus at Penn State that he was going to be something special ... and that person wasn't a Penn State fan.
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Well, not to take anything away from anyone but I believe he was the #1 quarterback recruit in the nation, so...

    I saw him participate in the Elite 11 coverage of their week of practices and competition. He looked pretty good and you could see off his high school tape why he was so highly rated. Initially watching the Penn State footage from a year ago I wasn't that impressed because I saw a lot of missed throws, but then I looked closer and noted the ball placement on the throws he was hitting, and the misses started to make sense for other extraneous reasons. He looks good.
     
  16. finsfanjay13

    finsfanjay13 Rookie Donator

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    I meant that they were convinced that he would live up to that billing before he even took a snap at Penn State and be something special. #1 recruits never mean much to me, as I've seen too many flop for them to be anything more than speculative guessing.
     
  17. MadDog 88

    MadDog 88 Smoke 'em Jay Finheaven VIP

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    Should the Dolphins take a QB, Cook is the guy I'd like to see them go after.
     
  18. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I just will be shocked if he isn't an Elite QB for a very long time. Outstanding prospect
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I really like Connor Cook. I'm a little wary that he's not a team captain and that when it was announced that he was left off the captain list some people close to the program implied that they're unsurprised. I know next to nothing about his character, so that raised an eyebrow with me.

    If/when Jim Harbaugh coaches the Dolphins, I'm not sure Connor Cook will be his guy. He'll love Mariota and Hundley because of their raw tools, but he'll also like Kevin Hogan, and I think he may like Rakeem Cato. I'm not sure yet what he'll think of Bryce Petty.
     
  20. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    He is an underclassmen after all. There may be more to it than that, or maybe people are reading too much into it.
     
  21. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    A little bird has told me Harbaugh is gone after this year. But when it comes to Tannehill, posters on this forum are either too high, or too low. I'm in the middle. I would put Tannehill around the 20th best Quarterback in the league right now. Unsurprisingly, Miami picked #19 in the draft last year. I think he has potential to climb into the teens in the Flacco, Stafford, Cutler, Alex Smith category, but that's about it. He's not going to be some elite, or top 10 quarterback, but at the same time he won't be Chad Henne.
     
  22. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Tannehill has the physical aptitude of a big time quarterback, but doesn't have it above the neck. His biggest weaknesses are decision making (17 interceptions and led the league in dropped INTs in 2013), ball security (18 fumbles in two years), accuracy, throwing between the hashes, his play speed he doesn't have the mental clock to know when to get the ball out of his hands or he gets hung on a read waiting for him to break open when he should move to the next read in his progression. And alas, the deep ball. Although I think it's a bit overstated. He is really bad throwing the deep ball.... to Mike Wallace, I thought he threw the deep ball decently his rookie year, he's never thrown to an athlete like Wallace and it shows. He misjudges him and he isn't consistent with overthrowing or just underthrowing him, he does both.
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    If Harbaugh came to Miami, he would definitely keep Ryan Tannehill. Just as he kept Alex Smith. That would most likely be the Dolphins 2015 starter.

    But he'll also look to draft a guy, much as he did with Kaepernick. And I'm just trying to look at the guys he would tend to like. I think Mariota, Hundley, Hogan and Cato fit, and perhaps also Fajardo and Petty.

    He recruited Kevin Hogan. David Shaw did more of the ground work but Harbaugh was the head coach.
     
  24. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I'm interested on your thoughts about Hogan..
     
  25. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    You're dead on here. He has as good of an arm and physical skill set as there is in the NFL. But he doesn't have it from the neck up. Doesn't understand situations the way a top quarterback should. He doesn't process what he's seeing fast enough to be an elite quarterback.

    Basically, all he does is turn it over by fumbling or throwing it to the other team, and miss deep throws by 10 yards, and fold in the clutch.

    This is exactly what he was coming out of Texas A&M to begin with in my opinion. Go back and read my thread "Ryan Tannehill....The Final Word" prior to Miami selecting him.
     
  26. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I'll definitely have to check that out Slimm. What do you think of my analysis of Hackenberg? He may not be a household name to everyone but I have no doubts you've seen multiple games of him.
     
  27. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    P.s remember on Hard Knocks when he couldn't name the teams in the right divisions? I know that's something minor but that was a big red flag for me..
     
  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I think we're going to start having to discuss Taysom Hill as more than just a prospect that belongs in the "athlete" category.

    Completing 72% of his passes. Destroyed Connecticut and Texas. And he spins a really good ball. Seems to have shortened up his delivery and has high velocity. And of course as a runner he has the same combination of elusiveness, speed and power/strength that Tim Tebow had.

    He's already among the early favorites for the Heisman. Athlon Sports has him ranked #2 for the Heisman thus far. This could be the early stages of a Robert Griffin-like rise for Taysom Hill.
     
  29. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Well, the jump in his completion percentage is due simply to throwing much shorter passes this year. His passes on average are traveling 3+ yards/attempt shorter this season. He still struggles a lot with down field accuracy.

    His accuracy against opponents from BCS conferences last year dropped off even further to around 46%. Get him in obvious passing situations like a 3rd and 7, and it dropped even further down to around 30%.

    He's throwing more arrow routes to the flat this year which is inflating his completion percentage. He's still holding the ball too long on deeper developing routes. He doesn't throw with anticipation in other words. He's completing a high percentage of his passes this season to the first thing of his own color that outflanks the defense off the zone read.

    Hill is still BYU's best running back. That's why I still consider him in the athlete category. However, there are other QB's like Everett Golson that have made significantly more strides as a passer than Taysom Hill has. Golson looks so much different in the pocket now after working with George Whitfield, I can't believe I'm watching the same player from 2012. His improvement is immense. Very impressive.

    Now that it sounds like I've only had criticism for Taysom Hill, let me explain why I put him here in the first place...

    I absolutely love this kid's running ability. He does run with the same toughness and intensity of a legendary player like Tim Tebow. He has the ability to completely dominate any game as a runner. Nearly the size of Tebow, but faster.

    He won't win the Heisman because they won't play anybody. They don't have the schedule to make him a legitimate threat for it. I don't see how anyone could have him at #2 at the moment...he's played UCONN, Texas, and Houston tonight. Mariota has already beaten Michigan St. and Gurley has dominated Clemson already. There's your top 2 as it stands in reality. And many more ranked teams to come for both.

    Taysom Hill has a significant amount of developing to do as a passer. He's a mid-round prospect at best right now if you're intent on developing him as a legitimate next level signal caller in my opinion.
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I'd love to try and develop him though. Great set of tools. A Jim Harbaugh type of developmental guy.
     
  31. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Had the exact same reaction watching Golson. Couldn't believe it.
     
  32. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Slimm, in your estimation, how many College QB to athlete conversions ever work out?

    All that come to mind are Hines Ward and Antwan Randle El. I'm sure there are more that I'm not thinking of, but in the last 10-15 years, who else has successfully made the conversion, and what do you think the success rate % is.

    Matt Jones, Joe Webb, Denard Robinson are just a few failed experiments that come to mind.
     
  33. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Off the top of my head in the past 15 years or so Kordell Stewart, Anquan Boldin, Julian Edelman, Michael Robinson, Woodrow Dantzler, Brad Smith, MarQueis Gray, etc.

    I think the success rate for converting a college athlete that's playing quarterback position to a different skill position in the NFL is not very high. The problem is that for some of these athletes playing QB in college, their only shot at having an NFL career is to move to another position. Some of them have the athletic ability and determination to make it at another position.

    There's been several that failed. Even Heisman trophy winners like Eric Crouch. He didn't want to be a defensive back in the NFL bad enough to make it work. He had the physical talent. A lot of 'em do.

    I think it boils down to that, and being able to move them to the right position for the transition to be successful.

    Denard Robinson is a good example. I remember his entire pre draft process where the league was trying to make him a slot receiver. But that wasn't his skillset in my estimation. I said I'd make him a running back.... that's where he's at. His skillset wasn't conducive to trying to learn how to run routes and all the nuances of playing the WR position. His skillset was give him the damn ball and tell him to run with it. Do that and he's got a shot.

    He's actually not that bad as a change of pace back. He's still there. He's so fast, explosive, and agile with the ball in his hands.

    I would agree that it's a low percentage move. It's just a move that some of 'em are going to have to make if they want to make a living playing football. I think it takes a rare athlete that has a tremendous love for the game of football in order for it to be successful. It's hard to come in the league as an athlete and earn that job.
     
  34. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    GREAT POST! :up:
     
  35. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Gunner Kiel is draft eligible.. it was only 1 game but 25-37, 418 yards, 6 TDs isn't a bad opening game. I didn't see it myself, just saw some highlights.
     
  36. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter

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    Not sure how legit this is but I would think most teams would probably not take Winston in the first round.

    [​IMG]
     
  37. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    If I had a nickel for every cocaine rumor regarding one of the top quarterbacks I could probably retire.
     
  38. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    This guy is a "reliable source" but calls "Pots" "Potbellys" :lol2:

    As an FSU grad I've never heard someone call it Potbellys.
     
  39. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter

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    Well that explains the thumbs down. Good to know for future reference.
     
  40. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I actually didn't mean to give you a thumbs down. Your comment didn't warrant that.
     

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