Slimm's 2015 Wide Receivers (Seniors)

[ckparrothead]

I liked Chris Harper coming out as a mid round kind of guy. Just opening up the spreadsheet where I had my board from back then, I had him as a Day 3 target. I had the likes of Stedman Bailey, Markus Wheaton, Quinton Patton, Justin Hunter and Marquise Goodwin as potential Day 2 targets at the position, and I also had Da'Rick Rogers and Marquess Wilson as Day 3 targets I'd have prioritized above Chris Harper. I liked Harper enough to prioritize and target him, which is more than I could say about a whole bunch of receivers from that year, including Aaron Dobson.

It's a long way to the 2015 draft and therefore it's not the time for definitive statements. However, I don't see where the Kasen Williams = Chris Harper comparison comes from. I think if any player compares to Harper a little bit it's probably Antwan Goodley, whom I also like.

I imagine Kasen Williams is going to grade out higher than Chris Harper because he's athletically more explosive. That was probably Harper's biggest issue. Williams also finishes catches better than Harper.

I think the thing Kasen and Harper share is being a little bit at the mercy of their offense and quarterbacks. The Huskies ran the football on an amazing 60% of downs last year. Luckily their quarterbacks completed about 65 percent of their passes, but not so lucky are the injury issues Slimm mentioned with Kasen, who only played in 7 games before taking a bow in his 8th.

I'm kind of impressed with the skill position of Washington. Kevin Smith and Jaydon Mickens are impressive, and of course they had Austin Seferian-Jenkins. Through the 7 games Kasen played fully healthy, Smith was actually beating Kasen with 459 yards and 3 TDs to Kasen's 400 yards and 1 TD. And Mickens wasn't far behind at 362 yards and 2 TDs. They really spread the football around.

But you talk about guys with incredible ability, I think Kasen Williams stands out that way. Watch his game against Stanford. He's #2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgFafsSetyM

You evaluate the basic skill set and he works the perimeter like Brian Hartline, except he runs really well after the catch, finishes contested catches and shows innate physicality and strength that Hartline would never show in a million years.

Heck of a play right here (11:04):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgFafsSetyM&feature=player_detailpage#t=664

And here (11:40):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgFafsSetyM&feature=player_detailpage#t=700

Both of those at the most critical time of the game, too.

 

[gregorygrant83]

I love the way you two can discuss or debate an issue without just throwing out statements like "he sucks" and how you at least have some info to support why you like or dislike a player.

 

[ckparrothead]

I love the way you two can discuss or debate an issue without just throwing out statements like "he sucks" and how you at least have some info to support why you like or dislike a player.

Thanks. If there's one thing I've tried to avoid for many years it's the "He's garbage, trust me I'm awesome at football" approach to posting.

I think there may literally not be a person outside the NFL whose opinions on draft prospects I respect more than Slimm's, so I try and toe a fine line when it comes to disagreement versus disrespect.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

For me there's a clear distinction between a special talent and a special skillset. They're two different things.

A talent is innate or God given, however you choose to view it. A skillset is honed and developed. I always referred to Cordarrelle Patterson as a special talent. Anytime a player has a special talent, it's usually blatently obvious to even an untrained eye. This player stands out. I don't necessarily mean he stands out as one of the best players in the stadium on that particular day. This player stands out among all players that you've ever watched.

You'll know it immediately... he'll trigger that instinct within you that tells you that he's doing things athletically that you don't see often when you watch a lot of football. In football, it's typically fairly simple... an explosive quality and/or insane change of direction. On the other hand, feats of strength or concentration can often be deceiving. For a receiver, talent is what he does with the ball in his hands. Skillset is what he does prior to that. You can take these to the bank. Calvin Johnson was a special talent. Julio Jones was a special talent.

I'm not really sure how to answer your question regarding a breaking point between special talent with inadequacies and players that are solid across the board. The best way I can answer that is this.. all players have inadequacies somewhere. But not all have special talent. Which is why a special talent should rate higher. A solid player without special talent can outproduce a special talent because of what I mentioned before...a special skillset. Although that still doesn't make him a special talent. A.J. Green had a better skillset than Julio, but Julio was a more special talent physically. Wes Welker has a special skillset, but nowhere near a special talent.

Another example, Sammy Watkins was the only special talent that I saw at the WR position this year. But I saw many with special skillsets. Marqise Lee has a special skillset... smoothness and route running. But again, he's not a special talent.

I don't know that I would consider Ty Montgomery a special talent. Although I would agree that he has special traits for a receiver that size, which puts him in a category that is in the top percentile for an NFL wide receiver prospect. But he's not a 1% ("1 percenter"). He's good enough for top 10 on my board of Senior wide receivers. But I view my top prospect on this list (Parker) as a 2nd rounder in the mold of an Aaron Dobson. The underclassman are where I currently believe the special talent lies.

I hope I answered your question somewhat. If not let me know.

Beautifully explained, Slimm. Thank you.

 

[hoops]

kasen williams is a better prospect than chris harper...more explosive more burst murderous downfield blocker...just more quick twitch and dynamic...i don't know how the injuries will play out draft wise or how much they will effect how his game looks this year but williams game transfers much better to the pros...i was really looking forward to seeing williams play in 2013 after what i saw from him prior...

different level prospect than harper tools wise...

if parker has burst out of his cuts and comes out of them well that will separate him from dobson in some regards...dobsons just so meh out of his cuts...2 years ago parker looked more like a red zone mismatch than complete wr to me but i saw some growth in 2013...most of my time this last season was spent enjoying bridgewaters spot on presnap reads and decision making with the football...parkers more of a mismatch in the red zone than dobson too...but parts of parkers game are still raw

i don't see special talent in ty montgomery...

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

What's your thoughts on Ty Montgomery? I like his talent, but haven't seen enough of the wide receivers to say where he ranks. Looks like a #1 pick to me with the added versatility of returning kicks. As much as I think Miami's receivers are overall a strength, I still think the team could use some more talent there especially someone a little bigger who can dominate in the redzone.

 

[LouPhinFan]

DeVante Parker injured his foot in practice last night (Friday) and will get a second opinion from Dr. Bob Anderson in Charlotte. He's worked on the feet of Derek Jeter, Cam Newton, and Julio Jones among others. His aunt posted on Facebook today that it's just a sprain and not a break. It could be that he's just wanting to make sure the doctors up here haven't misdiagnosed the injury. Foot injuries can derail a career so if that is why he's visiting the specialist then that's a smart call. No word yet on how many, if any, games he'll miss.

He tweeted this yesterday:

[tweet]503019871878533121[/tweet]

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Kevin White. Mountaineers. He's good. Real good. Great pro prospect at the WR position.

Sooners better be careful when they go into Morgantown Saturday.

 

[ckparrothead]

Kevin White. Mountaineers. He's good. Real good. Great pro prospect at the WR position.

Sooners better be careful when they go into Morgantown Saturday.

Yeah I watched him after that Alabama game, which I'm positive is when he caught your eye as well. I was surprised.

Clint Trickett might make a decent backup quarterback at the next level, sort of a career clipboard holder. Big arm, smart.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Yeah I watched him after that Alabama game, which I'm positive is when he caught your eye as well. I was surprised.

Clint Trickett might make a decent backup quarterback at the next level, sort of a career clipboard holder. Big arm, smart.

He was beating up on a coverted WR that has no business starting at CB for Alabama, but he's a big physical receiver that's extremely explosive and dynamic RAC skills. He caught my eye last year because he was always the one making plays for West Virginia. His consistency in the way he takes over games is getting better and better every week. He looks like a top 100 player to me.

Trickett has certainly improved. The concern with him is obvious though... he's still skinny. I can't knock him anymore for it though than kids like Halliday, Cato, or Keeton in this class. They're all built about the same in terms of lack of bulk. All have a certain degree of arm talent though. You'll stick 'em on the roster and develope them over a few years as hopefully capable backups at the next level.

 

[Tannenbombs]

Kevin White is drawing some Larry Fitzgerald comparisons. Time to dig into his film.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Kevin White is drawing some Larry Fitzgerald comparisons. Time to dig into his film.

He's a beast ain't no question about it. He's lit up Alabama, Baylor, Oklahoma, Texas, and Maryland for 41 receptions, 658 yards, and 4 TD's. He's averaging over 16 yards/catch in those 5 games. He's even better now than he was last year. In other words, he's still improving. Fantastic upside.

 

[WVDolphan]

Kevin White.......

Going back to something Awsi said about guys usually can be expected to be what they are from the beginning of their college careers.

White has made some big plays so far this season.

Last season, I was at almost every home game. I recall going away thinking he was soft. I noticed quite a few occasions where it seemed like he wanted no part of contact. He fumbled a ball once where he had zero business fumbling. It was a play where he seemed timid to take a hit and it resulted in a fumble. He also had quite a few key drops I recall last season.

He seems like a much better player so far this season, but I would be easy on the Fitzgerald comparisons at this point. If he continues to play the way he has so far this season, his draft stock will definitely rise to the 1st round. I would still be concerned about what I witnessed in that stadium last year though. I wish I could recall the game and pull up the play.

Let me clear up my statement about White not wanting contact last year. Im not one of those guys that bashed Ginn for going to the ground or getting out of bounds. I always thought that was stupid. MOST WRs do that, and for good reason. Once they get the 1st down, there is no reason for them to take vicious hits for 1 or 2 yards. All they do is risk a fumble and/or injury. If they need to fight for yardage because they are close to the sticks, then by all means. But, what I was talking about with White was it seemed like he had a complete lack of interest in blocking or making tough catches when contact was inevitable. That fumble just struck me the wrong way. If you get a chance to see the play, the fumble happened because he was too busy trying to brace himself in a defensive manner as opposed to dishing out the punishment. When youre the big physical WR, that is not good. He just seemed like he was not physical.

 

[WVDolphan]

Yeah I watched him after that Alabama game, which I'm positive is when he caught your eye as well. I was surprised.

Clint Trickett might make a decent backup quarterback at the next level, sort of a career clipboard holder. Big arm, smart.

Trickett is a tough little son of a gun, but I think he could still qualify to play midget league football. He weighs about 150lbs. He makes Pat White look like Cam Wake.

 

[Tannenbombs]

He's a beast ain't no question about it. He's lit up Alabama, Baylor, Oklahoma, Texas, and Maryland for 41 receptions, 658 yards, and 4 TD's. He's averaging over 16 yards/catch in those 5 games. He's even better now than he was last year. In other words, he's still improving. Fantastic upside.

Potential 1st Round? I see you have him behind Devante Parker, and Rashad Greene. And this thread was made in March. Would you move him up past them now?