Slimm's 2017 Defensive Ends (Underclassman) | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Slimm's 2017 Defensive Ends (Underclassman)

What is it Slimm taking the time reviewing the
[video=youtube;Rhs2z9dwZU0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhs2z9dwZU0[/video]

before saying I'm right?
This is the game that drop Kouanjio out of the first round.
 
Cyrus Kouandjio's draft stock had already suffered major damage before the Sugar Bowl. I knew he was being overrated long before he faced Eric Striker. A point I tried to get across all season in this forum. His junior season was full of false starts, holds, and quick defensive ends running around him from the moment it began against Virginia Tech.




This, is when Cyrus Kouandjio fell out of the 1st round. He opened himself up and let a true freshman Carl Lawson get under his pads and toss him like an aluminum can...

sI2Bw.gif









He already knew the Sugar Bowl was his last game in an Alabama uniform and was mentally processed out by the time he faced Eric Striker. Fact is, the Sugar Bowl performance against Striker probably should've dropped him even further than the 2nd round.
 
Father Slimm,
I agree with what you said about not being harsh on injuries as they are random. However, with a player like Lawson how much are the injuries effecting how much you value him? Where would you draft him if he was clean injury wise? Where would you draft him now?
 
Not too much, it's just what lead me to favor Barnett over Lawson to begin with. Lawson is playing lights out this year, as is Derek Barnett, and that's all he really needed to do was stay on the field as I mentioned before the season. That's really it. I've long been a subscriber to his talent. It appears he's learned how to protect his lower body better.

Basically, there's a tier of DE's that are a notch below Myles Garrett, and that tier consists of Derek Barnett and Carl Lawson. Barnett might be playing the best defense of any single player in the country through the first 6 or 7 weeks. He's absolutely destroyed Cam Robinson and David Sharpe already, and shown them not be able to handle his pass rush. Hell, that's 2 of the top 3 offensive tackles in the country right there. Furthermore, his impact is more than just his domination in individual matchups vs. elite competition, it's been the impact he's had on big games in the most crucial moments. He's been the spark on defense that ignited Tennessee's comebacks in all of these games that they were down by multiple scores, and batting down passes at the LOS on key downs that killed the oppositions chances and cemented the win. His awareness is phenomenal.

As for Lawson, he's a top 20 talent if healthy. I certainly have no issue with any team selecting him with a top 20 pick. Barnett should make any team happy that's picking a tad too late to secure Myles Garrett. I'll take that guy into battle with me anytime anywhere.
 
I'd also be remiss here if I didn't praise Marquis Haynes while I'm on the subject. That kid's functional football strength is off the charts. The way this kid is able to bull rush tackles like Cam Robinson and Roderick Johnson who outweigh him by 80 pounds is absolutely incredible. He made Johnson look completely undraftable. Haynes is a solid, solid player. No doubt about it. If he was 25 or 30 pounds heavier, he'd be right there with Barnett and Lawson. It's only the lack of bulk that they have keeping him from that tier as far as I'm concerned.
 
So basically, unless a player has a recurring injury or a red flag is raised by a doctor, like with Myles Jack, should injuries not really effect draft grade?

Are injuries just like turnovers for a DB, or drops for a WR in that they don't translate?
 
It's two fold. First, injuries are completely unpredictable. Secondly, durability doesn't necessarily translate. But you obviously grade a more durable player higher. It's not an exact science, just a common sense approach to risk management. Drafting players is nothing but a series of risks, you just try to do your best to mitigate the risks as much as possible. I don't know how many players I've seen that stayed beat up in college and were labeled injury prone that went on to almost never miss games in the NFL. Conversely, I've seen many that never missed time in college that couldn't even get their career started in the NFL because they were always injured. The ability to stay healthy playing this game boils down to good fortune for the most part.

Although there's obviously players with certain frames that are just fragile and less durable than others. However, players that have the toughness to play hurt and with injuries are what you covet. There's an old saying among football coaches that the most important ability you can have is availability.

True story.....Bear Bryant once dragged a broken leg up and down the field for 4 quarters against rival Tennessee. He wasn't even supposed to play, he was in the locker room on crutches prior to the game. Now this is a different era of football, but you still want players with that kind of dawg in 'em....they're just hard to find. Especially in the NFL when they start cashing those big paychecks. Look and injury reports of NFL teams week in and week out and the players not suiting up. Sore knee, hurt ankle, bruised ribs, broken thumb nail, etc. It's ridiculous.

One reason I have such a high opinion of Cam Robinson is because despite his technical flaws, they just don't come any tougher than that kid. He played the first 2 months of last season through injuries that would've kept 99% of players out. But he never missed a game through it, and it's why he struggled so much for the first part of the season last year. Once he got completely healthy, he played dominant football for the latter half of the season all the way through the playoffs and national championship. You know you can depend on this guy.

Injuries, routing bumps and bruises, and legitimate medical risks all fit into different categories. They all should be weighed differently.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
I'd also be remiss here if I didn't praise Marquis Haynes while I'm on the subject. That kid's functional football strength is off the charts. The way this kid is able to bull rush tackles like Cam Robinson and Roderick Johnson who outweigh him by 80 pounds is absolutely incredible. He made Johnson look completely undraftable. Haynes is a solid, solid player. No doubt about it. If he was 25 or 30 pounds heavier, he'd be right there with Barnett and Lawson. It's only the lack of bulk that they have keeping him from that tier as far as I'm concerned.
Click to expand...

To be fair with Roderick Johnson it was one play and Johnson's foot was being stepped on by the left guard.
 
ckparrothead said:
To be fair with Roderick Johnson it was one play and Johnson's foot was being stepped on by the left guard.
Click to expand...

No it was every play. It was as bad as I've ever seen a DE make an offensive lineman look. You won't see Roderick Johnson on my draft board. Good luck with that.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
No it was every play. It was as bad as I've ever seen a DE make an offensive lineman look. You won't see Roderick Johnson on my draft board. Good luck with that.
Click to expand...

[video=youtube_share;hQ_t3Cm-Grk]https://youtu.be/hQ_t3Cm-Grk[/video]

I don't care what bone you have to pick with Roderick Johnson. He's not my guy. If you want to give the credit where it's due for Roderick Johnson's bad showing against Ole Miss though, you give it to John Youngblood. That's where it belongs, not Marquis Haynes. To say that Marquis Haynes dominated Roderick Johnson in addition to Cam Robinson is just inaccurate. I don't know what he did against Cam Robinson but I know Haynes only even faced Roderick Johnson 6 times, half of them run plays, and Haynes only made a decent showing of one of those 6 plays and that was because the left guard planted his left foot on Roderick Johnson's right heel while he was trying to anchor.
 
ckparrothead said:
[video=youtube_share;hQ_t3Cm-Grk]https://youtu.be/hQ_t3Cm-Grk[/video]

I don't care what bone you have to pick with Roderick Johnson. He's not my guy. If you want to give the credit where it's due for Roderick Johnson's bad showing against Ole Miss though, you give it to John Youngblood. That's where it belongs, not Marquis Haynes. To say that Marquis Haynes dominated Roderick Johnson in addition to Cam Robinson is just inaccurate. I don't know what he did against Cam Robinson but I know Haynes only even faced Roderick Johnson 6 times, half of them run plays, and Haynes only made a decent showing of one of those 6 plays and that was because the left guard planted his left foot on Roderick Johnson's right heel while he was trying to anchor.
Click to expand...

Yeah Youngblood whipped him pretty good all game, which is even worse to be honest. Breeland Speaks got in on it some too. I dont really have a bone to pick with any of em, I just don't think he's any good. Poor balance, poor strength, and poor technique. But that's not really breaking news either, he's looked like a sloppy prospect to me all along. He's always getting walked back into the quarterback way too often for me.

The only thing Johnson has going for him are his height and long arms. But they can't compensate for how deficient he is in other areas.

I will tell you that the play the guard stepped on his foot was Johnson's fault. He has to power step BEHIND him with his right leg when contact is made and tool his hips underneath. Again, poor footwork and technique. Although I'm sure it would've mattered...I think he may have ended up on his butt either way there.

Haynes was able to bull rush Cam Robinson the same way. He has incredible pop on contact despite his lack of bulk. I really like him, although I might like him even better at linebacker. Little bit of a tweener.
 
I think you might also be a little over-harsh on your Bama guy Cam Robinson with respect to his game against Derek Barnett too.

https://youtu.be/NuY-dqf62HU

I felt like Robinson won this matchup.

It was a good matchup but the only time Barnett got the best of Robinson, there were circumstances. It was a 3rd & 15. The quarterback didn't step up into the pocket, choosing instead to float backward and to the right, which is really the worst thing you can do to a left tackle trying to handle a speed rush. And the other thing about that play, especially within the context of the whole game, is Barnett's get-off from the snap on that play was conspicuously perfect. I say conspicuous because Barnett had two off-sides penalties during the game and some other plays where he either should have gotten called off-sides or he jumped a bit and got back on time, etc. So he was going off early all game and it seemed like it just so happened that on that 3rd & 15, his early jump ended up perfectly timed. You could tell he had Robinson before Robinson could even get into his kick step.

There were some other plays, some speed rushes, where Barnett clearly gave Robinson all he could handle. But Robinson DID handle it. I think that's important. I've been impressed with Robinson as I've been watching him against some of these players.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom