Slimm's 2017 Offensive Line (Seniors)

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by TedSlimmJr, May 17, 2016.

  1. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Tackle/Guard:

    1. Dorian Johnson / Pittsburgh / 6'5", 300 (#41 overall)

    2. Dion Dawkins / Temple / 6'4", 314 (#87 overall)

    3. Taylor Moton / W. Michigan / 6'5", 319 (#140 overall)

    4. Ben Braden / Michigan / 6'6", 329 (#141 overall)

    5. Jessamen Dunker / Tennessee St. / 6'4", 318 (#142 overall)

    6. Eric Smith / Virginia / 6'4", 305 (#143 overall)

    7. Isaac Asiata / Utah / 6'3", 323 (#147 overall)

    8. Conor McDermott / UCLA / 6'8", 307 (#148 overall)

    9. Aviante Collins / TCU / 6'4", 295 (#161 overall)

    10. Julie'n Davenport / Bucknell / 6'7", 318 (#189 overall)

    11. Nico Siragusa / San Diego St. / 6'4", 319 (#196 overall)

    12. Danny Isadora / Miami / 6'3", 306 (#198 overall)

    13. Adam Bisnowaty / Pittsburgh / 6'6", 304 (#229 overall)

    14. Dimitric Camiel / Indiana / 6'7", 315 (#246 overall)

    15. Jonathan McLaughlin / Virginia Tech / 6'4", 293 (#249 overall)

    16. Alex Kozan / Auburn / 6'3", 309 (UDFA)

    17. Zach Banner / USC / 6'8", 353 (UDFA)

    18. Kent Perkins / Texas / 6'5", 320 (UDFA)

    19. Dan Skipper / Arkansas / 6'10", 309 (UDFA)

    20. Jon Heck / N. Carolina / 6'6", 300 (UDFA)

    21. Chad Wheeler / USC / 6'7", 306 (UDFA)

















    Guard/Center:

    1. Forrest Lamp / W. Kentucky / 6'4", 309 (#35 overall)

    2. Dan Feeny / Indiana / 6'4", 305 (#44 overall)

    3. Pat Elflein / Ohio St. / 6'3", 303 (#88 overall)

    4. Antonio Garcia / Troy / 6'6", 293 (#154 overall)

    5. J.J. Dielman / Utah / 6'5", 309 (#186 overall)

    6. Corey Levin / Chattanooga / 6'4", 307 (#188 overall)

    7. Tyler Orlosky / W. Virginia / 6'3", 298 (#191 overall)

    8. Jay Guillermo / Clemson / 6'3", 301 (#194 overall)

    9. Kyle Fuller / Baylor / 6'5", 306 (#225 overall)

    10. Ethan Pocic / LSU / 6'6", 310 (#228 overall)

    11. Kyle Kalis / Michigan / 6'4", 308 (UDFA)

    12. Erik Magnuson / Michigan / 6'4", 303 (UDFA)

    13. Jon Toth / Kentucky / 6'5", 307 (UDFA)

    14. Cameron Tom / S. Miss. / 6'3", 291 (UDFA)

    15. Chase Roullier / Wyoming / 6'4", 312 (UDFA)

    16. Jake Simonich / Utah St. / 6'4", 296 (UDFA)

    17. Jonah Pirsig / Minnesota / 6'8", 316 (UDFA)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2017
  2. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Not sure where to list Elflein. Hasn't played center yet, so I guess for now I'll evaluate him as an OG. Gave him a 1st round grade last fall.
     
  3. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Forrest Lamp will end up at OG right?
     
  4. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Have you seen Bucknell OT Julie'n Davenport?
     
  5. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    I saw him a little as a freshman against Terrence Fede and Zach Hodges. Big, strapping guy that stands out at that level just because of his size. I've listened to him interview and he comes across as an extremely mature and intelligent kid. Perhaps he'll get an invite to an All-Star setting where teams can evaluate his abilities.
     
  6. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Forrest Lamp did an excellent job against Tim Williams Saturday. He completely shut him out. Jeremy Pruitt even moved Williams to the other side in an effort to get him going. It wasn't going to happen against Lamp on that day.

    Excellent player. Also did a good job against Jonathan Allen.

    This kid is going to be a fixture on somebody's offensive line in the NFL.
     
  7. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Love him. Don't know if I can choose between him or Elflein at this point (plenty of time in the process), but I would take either in the top 15 without batting an eye. Like you said these guys will be fixtures on their lines. Studs. Zack Martin received the highest grade I've ever given out to an interior OL, but these 2 are my next highest, even over Cody Whitehair who I had in my top 20 last year.

    It's not recency bias, just I've only been evaluating since the 2013 class.

    P.S. I almost forgot about Dan Feeney. He gets off the ball so well, he almost always gets his first 2 feet in the ground before the defender.
     
  8. fininpsl

    fininpsl A True Fan

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    Slimm, watching UVA play Pitt, and the Eric Smith kid looks intriguing at right tackle. What are your thoughts on him? Worthy of a mid round or late pick? It looks like he run blocks very well, gets to the second level, and seems to have decent agility/feet.
     
  9. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    I'm glad you brought him up, because he's a kid who I've been really impressed with for a long time. I have a Round 3 grade on him, and that'll go up if he tests as well as he plays.

    He sticks out like a sore thumb on Virginia's offensive line because of his hustle, attitude, and nastiness.

    He plays until the echo of the whistle every snap. Plays the game right on the edge...he goes as far as you can possibly go without getting a flag. It's perfection. I love it. Always hustling and looking for somebody to hit. He plays with an aggressiveness and nastiness that's not very common. I think this is one of those guys that you can kick inside and not have to worry about that guard spot for a decade. I just haven't seen many like him to be honest. He's been a pillar of strength and durability on the Cavs offensive line since he was a true freshman.

    The Pittsburgh game is ideal in terms of illustrating what I'm talking about. Everybody should watch the Pitt/UVA game and just watch #72. They'll get it pretty quick, it won't take long.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2016
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Boy you weren't kidding.

    I was a huge fan of Joe Thuney last year and I hear he's doing very well on NE's line even as a rookie. As a prospect, Forrest Lamp reminds me a lot of Thuney. Not as fast as Thuney. Probably a little bit better in straight ahead power. Thuney I thought compared very favorably to Evan Mathis and Forrest Lamp isn't quite in that mold. It's more in how they both put on their big boy pants against top competition, both playing LT, but neither destined to play LT at the next level due to frame.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    No Taylor Moton in here?

    The guy has an incredible build, thighs I've not seen since...really good knee bend and overall pad level. Could use some work on his hand use and you'd like to see a bit more killer instinct but he's built like a guy that will play for a decade.
     
  12. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    What do you think of Jessamen Dunker, Jordan Morgan, and Taylor Moton?
     
  13. ronnieb_23

    ronnieb_23 Rookie

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    Elflien would be tremendously valuable to our team. If Tunsil is officially moved out to LT next year then we have our guard or if Pouncey's hip continues to be a issue then we have another center instead of Steen. We could evaluate Steen for RG our use him for depth. If we pick in the late teens or early twenties and Elflien is there he would be extremely tough to pass up even with our needs at LB and DE.
     
  14. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    Great round 2 target for Miami. Agree, he could fill multiple needs with RG perhaps his initial spot if Albert is kept.
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Who the hell is that mammoth tight end that Bama trots out every now and then that looks like a better right tackle than their right tackle?

    He got any future?
     
  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Jon Toth is pretty good as a center. I like his mentality, his hands, and especially his frame. That's probably what separates him from other guys. He's got a big, long-armed, powerful frame. I liked the way he matched up with pro players like Jarrad Davis, Alex Anzelone and Reuben Foster at the next level. I liked how he matched up with Jonathan Allen. Florida's defensive tackles were breathing down his neck off the snap all game long, handled it really well. He's got some good instincts.

    Tyler Orlosky is good. Seems to fit well in a zone scheme. Has the requisite power and anchor to play the position, and is pretty polished besides. But I'm not sure if I'd trust him to go between guard and center. I think Elflein, Pocic and Toth are the guys to trust more that way.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Relevant to Ethan Pocic.

    Prior to this year, he had hip surgery and it wasn't for injury, it was for a hereditary condition in his hip. They cleaned up loose cartilage and then shaved the bone to make more room. Given the situation with Pouncey, I think Miami shies away from that.
     
  18. ronnieb_23

    ronnieb_23 Rookie

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    I'd like to see Elflien on our offensive line next year based on his versatility. We are seeing what our run game looks like without Pouncey and we can't rely on him as a starter. I'd like to see Albert around just one more year so our like could be Albert, Tunsil, Pouncey/Elflien/Steen, Elflien/Steen, and James.

    If we do go defense in the first round is Dan Feeney someone that could drop to the late forties/early fifties? Or is he someone that will likely be gone by our second round pick?
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Forrest Lamp thoroughly dominated Jaylon Ferguson. It wasn't one of those things where the play calling just didn't give Ferguson a chance, or they didn't match up on each other enough, nor was it something where the QB just got the ball out too fast for Ferguson to do anything. This was snap for snap, matchup for matchup, Ferguson going 0-for-All against Lamp, who looked like a 1st round pick. The whole game was chalk full of above-and-beyond execution by Lamp. Every block had a little something extra to it that helps you win ball games.
     
  20. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    This is the kid people need to go watch and get familiar with. Eric Smith.

    Never hear anything about him. Ever. But ol' Slimm really likes him.
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I'll always make a bee-line to a player knowing you've taken a shine to him, whether I end up agreeing or not. Year after year it becomes increasingly apparent that it is exceptionally rare for a person to be able to spot talent on the field and get his evaluation pretty close without being gifted a context via other peoples' evaluations or some other obvious markers. Lots of people say they can evaluate talent, but they can't do that and they don't want to admit it.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    As for Eric Smith, based on his build, his base, playing style, and anchor, I probably wouldn't want to move the guy inside to guard. He's got the length to play tackle so I would keep him there. He doesn't feel like a powerful player, but hell there were times in Vernon Carey's career where he didn't feel like a overtly powerful player, even though he was known as one.

    He seems like a good, low cost alternative to feeling forced to pay a mint to re-up your former 1st round pick right tackle.
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I forget which game it was I thought I watched Dorian Johnson and he didn't look very good to me. Maybe I'm confusing him with Dion Dawkins, who I know I don't really like much.

    Anyway I don't know what I was seeing before, but I'm watching his Va Tech game and he looks superb. Not the biggest guy but explosive.

    I'm also going to have to take a closer look at Pitt's center Alex Officer. He is sized liked a monster, for a center. If he's any good he could be one to watch.
     
  24. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Dorian Johnson is very good. Plays with a great base in pass pro, looks great pulling and moving to 2nd level, and he routinely mauls DT's and DE's to seal running lanes. His accuracy when he gets to the 2nd level is hit or miss, and he can lose his balance, but that was the biggest negative I saw, and I don't see it as an athletic limitation. 1st/2nd RD OG.

    Dion Dawkins disappointed me a little. He plays high and top-heavy for me to like his switch to OG. Looks like a RT to me. Probably a 3rd/4th.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2017
  25. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Dorian Johnson reminds me a lot of Chris Chester, who has a lot of skins on the wall over his 11 year career (143 starts, 169 appearances). That's probably not the sexiest comparison people will want to hear but I think it's a fairly accurate one.
     
  26. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Speaking of underrated offensive linemen, I submit Virginia Tech RT Jonathan McLaughlin.

    I watched him live in Shrine practice and he caught my eye as perhaps the BEST offensive lineman on the East squad. And possibly the both squads since all the OLs kind of sucked. Even Avery Gennessy kind of sucked. Will Holden had his moments, but McLaughlin was better, and Holden struggled during the game. Victor Salako had his moments too. But not quite as good as McLaughlin.

    Actually the only guy that was consistently good other than McLaughlin was Zach Johnson of North Dakota State. And what's funny is that neither he nor Jonathan McLaughlin actually played in the game itself. I know Johnson took a tough injury but he should be healthy by the time camp rolls around. And I am absolutely interested in him as a guard. More on that later.

    For now it's Jonathan McLaughlin.

    Here's what is interesting about the guy to me. He only weighed in at 293 lbs. And he was lanky at 6041 with 34" arms and a 6'10" wingspan. But on tape...this doesn't give up ground. The anchor is really good.

    I watch him in a lot of different situations. You have situations as a tackle where getting backed up at least a little bit is an assumption. If you lose the hand battle and a guy has you gripped at the collar pretty good, if you're trying to block a dude at an oblique angle, if a bigger player comes screaming in at you at a running start where you've been backing up in a vertical set, etc.

    He's not impervious. You'll see him give up a bit of ground in those situations that are extremely difficult. But not much. Not as much as he should. Not enough to be beaten. And then in situations where he's not at a disadvantage, forget about it. He's a forward player.

    In this way he reminds me of Joe Thuney. I used to talk about this with Joe Thuney a lot. You look at the size and the frame and you say OK, this guy has got to have some problems with anchor. But you look and you look and you look, and you'll be damned if you can find anything. They bow up, and just stop giving up ground.

    I think the key here is the way both of these players hold themselves in terms of the way their weight hangs, their perfect pad level, center of gravity. That's part of what stood out for me about a Jonathan McLaughlin in Shrine practice and it's something I learned to look for at these practices immediately when I attended in 2010 and found that Rodger Saffold looked far and away the best offensive lineman attending. It can be hard to recognize just on broadcast tape that center of gravity, pad level, the angle of his back and the way he carries himself. It becomes more obvious in a practice setting when you're at ground level with the guys.

    And for all Jonathan McLaughlin's unusual anchor ability for his weight class, the guy is really quite mobile, and has long arms and very, very active hands. He doesn't always do it right, not a perfect technician with his hand placement, etc. But his balance, agility, mobility are all very good. He has to learn to sustain his blocks a little better and keep his feet moving, reacting better to his opponent's leverage.

    Like Joe Thuney, I'd like to get a look at this guy on the interior of the offensive line. But with his long arms and wingspan, the NFL may keep him at right tackle and may even make him an eventual swing tackle. In some ways, the guy he actually reminds me of is a little bit smaller version of Ja'Wuan James. Which makes it further unsurprising that I like him so much, because I was a fan of James for years in college before he came out.

    [video=youtube_share;4bQrVuigtNM]https://youtu.be/4bQrVuigtNM[/video]
    [video=youtube_share;V-cka6r38Vc]https://youtu.be/V-cka6r38Vc[/video]
     
  27. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    The kid I'm struck by is the left tackle #69 Yosuah Nijman. He's one of my top 5 underclassman OT's for 2018.
     
  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I was actually going to bring this up and the reason is because the natural question I was getting elsewhere about Jonathan McLaughlin is if he's so good, and he does have a history of playing left tackle his first two seasons at Virginia Tech, why wasn't he moved back to play the more important left tackle position in 2016.

    To that I say...watch the guy that they do have at left tackle. He's pretty good. Monstrous frame and good balance, pad level.

    It's no shame that McLaughlin continued to play right tackle as a senior.
     
  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    One guy I think really belongs in here is North Dakota State OG Zack Johnson.

    I was generally unhappy with the quality of the OLs at Shrine practice and there were really only two, maybe three guys that finished the process with an overall positive impression with me. I mentioned one of them in Jonathan McLaughlin.

    The other was Zackary Johnson who checked in at over 6'4" and a whopping 346 lbs. But he carries that weight incredibly well. He was the one guy I just never saw get beaten in pit drills or team or whatever. He was huge and strong and he moved well.

    When I watch him on tape, first off it's a shame that he didn't actually face off with Jaleel Johnson more in the Iowa game, but he made it look unfair for his opponents a lot. And that includes the guys at Iowa. That includes the 6'3" & 315 lbs Jay-Tee Tiuli of Eastern Washington who was 1st Team All Big Sky and will be drafted in 2018. That includes his teammate Matthew Sommers who is no slouch and may get a cup of coffee in an NFL training camp, or the two standout DTs at South Dakota State Kellen Sourek and Cole Langer.

    When Zack punches a guy, the defensive lineman feels it. He moves. When Zack lays into a guy, the defensive lineman moves. That's something I look for. When you're talking about a 346 lbs "fat" guy, it's a must. You have to see that first and foremost because that's the player he's trying to be. I'm just saying, it's there. The anchor he showed at Shrine practice was ludicrous during practice sessions where nobody was dropping anchor very well.

    But what he spices in that is pretty surprising for that full 6'4" and 346 lbs frame is the movement. He pops out of his stance with urgency and quickness on the pull. She shows variable speed and control on the move, meaning when he pulls and gets over to the hole, he can idle a bit while identifying targets, and then make his move. Other big fat guys, when you get them on the hoof, they're stuck to a rail and hopefully a defender ends up on the tracks or else the big fat guy ends up not finding any work. Zack ends up doing the fat guy trot a fair amount, but only when the ball is out of play for him. When he's got work to do, he does NOT move like a top-heavy fat guy. That's a big difference between he and a Nico Siragusa for example. Zack moves with his full body, a flexible back.

    Here he is against Iowa this year. Heading into this game, Iowa was ranked #13 in the FBS. Zackary Johnson led an offensive line effort that paved the way for 239 yards on the ground on 49 carries, as the FCS team upset and beat the #13 team in the country.

    Pay no attention to LB Josey Jewell. That's for next year. Just look at big LG #66 of the Bisons.

    [video=youtube_share;GLzI4wyqluU]https://youtu.be/GLzI4wyqluU[/video]

    Note: Zackary Johnson tore his MCL during Shrine practices and did not participate in the game itself. He will not participate in the Combine either. He is aiming to be healthy for his Pro Day.
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I've looked at Ben Braden before, as a tackle. He was...OK. You could see the potential. But he wasn't necessarily putting it all on the field.

    I've just been focusing solely on the stretch of games (UCF, Colorado, Penn State, Wisconsin, Rutgers) where he moved inside to LG.

    That was a revelation.

    Would not surprise me in the slightest if he ends up the best guard from this draft. His potential as a guard is immense. Can't be overstated.
     
  31. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I have him as my 4th OG, with only Lamp, Johnson, and Feeney ranked ahead of Braden (agree with Slimm that Dawkins and Moton should be ranked ahead of him, but I like them as OT's - particularly Dawkins).

    His combo of brute force and speed definitely gives him a high ceiling. Good call. I kind of doubt that Braden will be there when Miami drafts in the 5th, but if he is available, Miami should jump on that. If Miami spent a 3rd on him, I wouldn't complain.
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    The way I see it, he plays at Michigan, and he's been playing for years, captain at the bowl game and all that. He's known. His tapes are against high quality opponents. He blew out the Combine and looked good in the drills even aside. If this guy is available at 97 overall then even that would be a surprise to me, and if you pass there because you're hoping to get him in the 5th round then I just don't think that's going to happen.

    He shares traits with Billy Turner as a prospect out of NDSU, in a good way. But there are some pretty big differences.

    First off he's bigger at 6062 & 329 lbs versus Turner being 6047 & 315 lbs. Same arm length, similar wing span, but Braden is flat out bigger. Turner was definitely pudgier too, this guy just looks like a massive grown man with "heavy bone girth" as Bill Walsh would put it.

    Second, Braden is faster. He ran a 5.04 official with 1.78 unofficial ten yard split. Turner ran a 5.16 official with 1.82 official ten yard split (1.86 unofficial). Braden's ten yard split is 15th percentile over the last ten years, and Mock Draftable has his forty as 8th percentile.

    Third is the obvious, you had Billy Turner putting together attractive tape at North Dakota State University against the South Dakota State Jackrabbits and the the Southern Illinois Salukis. And he was playing next to guys who never got a sniff at the next level. His shining moment was against Kansas State, and I'm not sure anyone on that defense even got a cup of coffee in the NFL. So when you see Billy Turner looking head and shoulders above the crowd on tape, keep in mind it was a vertically challenged crowd.

    Ben Braden plays at Michigan, his tapes at LG are against UCF, Colorado, Penn State, Wisconsin, Rutgers. He has other tapes at LT against the likes of Florida State, Ohio State, Illinois, Michigan State, Maryland, and Iowa. He has 2015 tape at RT against a bunch of good opponents. And he's also playing with guys who will go pro like Kyle Kalis, Erik Magnuson. Mason Cole will be a pro in 2018 and is in fact NFLDS's top rated Center for that year. Ben Bredeson is the guy who came in for Braden at LG during some of the games, and played LG while Braden moved to LT, and Bredeson was a 4-star recruit who got All Big 12 Honorable Mention as a freshman. Already NFLDS has him as the 2nd best guard for 2020.

    When you stand out on tape in THAT crowd, it's different. And in particular looking at Braden playing the position and then watching Ben Bredeson come onto the field in his place, the drop-off was DRAMATIC. And I don't mean to pick on the Freshman All-American, but it wasn't close. Braden made Bredeson look kind of pathetic by comparison.

    Another big difference between he and Billy Turner is that Turner never got a look at guard while at NDSU. You never got to see that tape, as an evaluator. Even at the Senior Bowl he played right tackle. You were left guessing about the projection, and there were certain weaknesses in Turner's game (tendency to play too upright, hand placement, foot discipline) which were particularly problematic in a theorized move to guard, so that tape would have been very useful. Ben Braden got moved to left guard for five games, so you've seen how his strengths and weaknesses interact with the demands of the position. We never got to see that with Turner until it was too late.

    I think you hit the nail on the head with respect to Braden's profile and the potential which is tied to the strength and speed combo. It's tied to the fact that he's got vicious and brutally powerful drive blocking ability on tape, and then you turn around and he's showing off high end lateral movement skills on tape, and then you get him on the pull and it's like holy cow that dude can run. And he doesn't just run in a straight line; he improvises on the move. If there's a thing that you have to find out about him, it's pass pro. I know that he let up 2 sacks, 5 hits and 13 hurries in 2016, but he played 7 games at left tackle versus 5 games at left guard, so in which games he allowed what is relevant. Based on what I've seen, not many of those data points happened in those games. But there are times his hand placement is off, or he freezes his feet. There are times he's too high. He's not a technician yet.

    This is what brings me back to the similarities with Billy Turner. You knew Billy Turner could run, you knew he could move laterally, you knew he was powerful and strong (or at least, he looked that way at the FCS level). But you also knew he could play a bit upright, that his feet could get lazy, that his hand placement was raw. These things made pass pro a question. But you knew his run blocking would be amazing at times. And indeed, at the pro level, it was.

    Ultimately what sank Billy Turner in Miami was a lack of professionalism. He had, "issues". I'll leave it there. I don't know much about Ben Braden. He seems intelligent, thoughtful, but so did Turner.

    Braden was a captain for Michigan's bowl game which I think is meaningful. When he showed up at Michigan he was 6'6" and 322 lbs with only 12 percent body fat. Taylor Lewan said, "Genetically, he's a freak. That's how it is. He's unbelievable. He's the most physically gifted individual I've ever seen in my life." You can't get that lean at that size without working at it. He was a standout left wing in hockey at 6'6" and 315 lbs, scoring 28 goals in a season.
     
  33. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Ben Braden is easily Michigan's best offensive lineman in my estimation, and that's a pretty good offensive line. I have no issue putting him above Moton as closely as I have em graded anyway.
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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  35. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Very nice work.

    In the last video, you may want to tell the guy on Twitter it only results in a hold if Braden stops moving his feet. He kept his feet moving and that's what kept the flag in the ref's pocket. Pretty textbook, and how Joe Pendry used to coach it.

    I remember Alabama's offensive line went the entire season without a single holding call before he retired.
     
  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Jesus. The whole season??

    Thank you. I was trying to tell the guy that to me it's not a hold because his right shoulder stayed inside the DT's frame until the very end, when he let go to avoid the flag. I didn't think about the fact he kept his feet moving. That makes a lot of sense. I guess some people are also tempted to say that Braden got "beat" on the play. Personally I don't think so, given what that DT and the rest of the DL were trying to do on that play. I think Braden had a tough assignment and he managed it. But I could see others disagreeing.
     
  37. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    The DL is trying to get both hips fully into the gap there, once he was able to do that...yes Braden was beat inside. If Braden stops his feet, the DL continues upfield with the OL's arm around his neck almost in a clothesline fashion. Resulting in a holding call most likely. His other option if he stops his feet is just to let him go. Neither good outcomes for the offense.

    By keeping his feet moving he's able to maintain a perpendicular relationship with the DL and keep him from reaching his inside shoulder. It's hard for a ref to throw laundry there. Although a more talented DL could have potentially forced a hold there.

    Our oline got beat plenty in similar fashion that year, but Pendry coached em so well on how to deal with getting beat by quick, strong, and talented SEC defensive lineman. We had a pretty talented oline too that year with Barrett Jones, Chance Warmack, Anthony Steen, D.J. Fluker, and Cyrus Kouandjio.
     
  38. KB21

    KB21 A True Fan

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    I wanted to get your view on something, Ted. Miami has invested quite a few high draft choices in offensive linemen over the past 7 drafts. They have used 1st round picks on Mike Pouncey, Ja'Wuan James, and Laremy Tunsil; 3rd round picks on John Jerry, Dallas Thomas, and Billy Turner; and a 4th round pick on Jamil Douglas.

    So, the question is, were these evaluation misses, or was the issue more coaching related? Because when you invest as many high picks on OL yet still have a bad OL, something is amiss.
     
  39. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    First of all I think it's an excellent question, and one that Miami should've asked themselves and figured out the answer to a while back. My opinion is that it's split pretty equal between poor coaching and misevaluation. Although I'd lean more towards poor coaching.

    Miami has selected a few offensive lineman that I was fairly high on coming out of college that didn't work out. John Jerry and Jamil Douglas being two that really stick out to me. I think John Jerry is still in the league and getting paid, so there's that.

    Jamil Douglas received some pretty poor coaching. I remember when Miami had him playing center, a position I wouldn't have projected him playing. Secondly, I remember LeCharles Bentley putting out a scathing criticism of the coaching he was receiving, and pointing out how his fundamentals and basics were extremely off due to the poor coaching he was getting in Miami.

    Dallas Thomas was such an athletic player that he should've been functional at the very least. But we all know he was always the complete opposite. He had talent, he just couldn't play football. It simply didn't translate to the field for whatever reason. The problem was they already knew that and still kept sending him out there.

    James was a kid I liked and always disagreed with the notion that he was a reach in the 1st round. However, if you go back and look at my offensive line thread for the 2014 draft, the OL I really like from Tennessee that year was Zach Fulton. He lasted until the 6th round that year, won a starting job for the Chiefs in training camp as a rookie, and has been a fixture on their offensive line ever since. I can't fathom why a team like Miami didn't draft him. Furthermore, even if they had selected him, I have to wonder if he would be the player he is in KC due to poor coaching.

    I just think it's a combination of both poor coaching and misevaluation for Miami. Tunsil I felt was the best player in the draft and a no brainier pick for Miami once he fell. It just seems to me like Miami makes it a point to over-invest high picks along the oline as a way to offset their inability to evaluate and coach em up properly.

    That said, it's why I think a kid like Forrest Lamp makes a lot of sense for Miami. There's no doubt in my mind he can be a 10 year starter in the NFL. Not even Miami can screw him up. He already knows how to play, and play at a high level. They can stick him at LG and not have to worry about the left side of their oline for the next decade with him and Tunsil.
     
  40. KB21

    KB21 A True Fan

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    So, I guess the million dollar question for Miami is whether Chris Foerester is the guy that can coach up young pups like Jamil Douglas and allow Miami to focus their higher draft picks on other positions?
     

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