Slimm's 2017 Tight Ends (Underclassman)

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by TedSlimmJr, May 12, 2016.

  1. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    1. David Njoku / Miami / 6'4", 244 ** (#17 overall)

    [​IMG]


    2. Bucky Hodges / Virginia Tech / 6'7", 241 (#105 overall)

    3. Ricky Seals-Jones / Texas A&M / 6'5", 243 (#139 overall)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2017
  2. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Bucky Hodges is a freak athlete. I also really like Mark Andrews. Not many know of him yet because he'll only be a RS SOPH but he's very talented.
     
  3. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    Those top 2 underclassmen and top 2 senior tight ends all carry first round grades in my book...probably the most talented tight end class if all 4 came out as ive seen...i could see all 4 gone in the top 25 picks even

    Of the 4 id pick butt to be picked last...andrews is quite a talent

    If you need a tight end 2017 is the year to get it
     
  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I think Mike Gesicki of Penn State is going to end up high on this list when all is said and done.
     
  5. gregorygrant83

    gregorygrant83 A True Fan

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    I'm very high on Baltimore's Crockett Gilmore. How would some of these young tight ends compare to a player like Gilmore?
     
  6. fininpsl

    fininpsl A True Fan

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    I'm back to plug David Njoku again. He had TD catches of 77 yards and 57 yards today, and has finished the year with 7 TDs in the last 6 games. It's also being reported he is leaning towards declaring. IMHO he's a better athlete than OJ Howard. Doesn't quite have Howard's height though. He's going to be worth a 2nd round pick.
     
  7. xXwarXx

    xXwarXx Banned Hammered

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    I like his talent but there is something About him thst I'm just not sold on yet at the next level. I dunno I'll have to watch more of him.

    IMO TE's are a position if you draft high you want to see a lot of polish on them. Way to many TE's have been drafted recently that got drafted based on upside that didn't come close to panning out, and we already have 2 project TEs In Gray and Duarte.
     
  8. fininpsl

    fininpsl A True Fan

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    He has concentration drops. Right now that's the real hole in his game. He's had about 6 this year which is a lot. He also is only a mediocre blocker, but we have the in-line TE in Sims assuming we re-sign him. Njoku is an athletic freak. And he gets open in the middle of the field and deep. I won't plug just any Canes player (for instance I love Kaaya, but I'm very nervous about him as a pro prospect), but when a kid is really worth the attention I like to point them out. I was dying for us to go after Jimmy Graham (3rd round), Sam Shields (UDFA), and Allen Hurns (UDFA) even though they were projects. I have the same conviction about Njoku. If he drops past the 2nd round it's a no-brainer, but I don't think that will happen after the combine. He is definitely flying under the radar some, but I think that is primarily because he is a RS Sophomore, and people haven't paid much attention to him at this point. I will say he isn't nearly the project that Gray and Duarte were. Though Gray may be far enough along in his development that our front office is content running with him, Sims, and making TE a lesser priority in the draft. Another Cane that IMHO warrants attention from us is CB Corn Elder. I think he will be available in the 3rd because of his size (5'10"), but he is another superb athlete, and I think he'd be a perfect fit in our defense for the slot CB position. I think he can play on the boundry in the NFL as well, but would be best suited inside based on size. He's very fast, and is a tough and willing tackler.
     
  9. xXwarXx

    xXwarXx Banned Hammered

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    Agree with all of this.

    I dunno if he has concentration drops or just flat out has bad hands. And his blocking is probably below average. He flashes the athletism for sure. But so does Gray.

    And with how far Grays blocking has come along I def could see Gase sticking with what we have. Gase was there to see Julius Thomas Develop, so I wouldn't be surprised of he tries to mimic that.

    I guess I'm skeptical on Njoku because I think he Should be a lot better than he actually is right now. Right now he seems more like a really big raw WR than a Tight end.
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I think you're right to focus on those two players (Njoku and Elder), if you're looking at the Canes.

    I have some concerns about Njoku based on his size and lack of blocking ability. He's not going to be an especially versatile player at the next level, basically a slot receiver that can be thrown on the perimeter in the red zone. I do think he's interesting as a receiver. He shows the ability to repel would-be tacklers because they're small and he's big, which is what you want to see in a tight end that has to be used like a wide receiver. He's also got nice stopping ability on curls and other cutoff routes. He comes back to the football and has some natural receiver instincts.

    But he's not what Miami is looking for at the position right now.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I mentioned Mike Gesicki before the season began. I do believe he's coming into his own as an athletic mismatch and pass catching weapon.

    https://youtu.be/ABgLw0tTzwM?t=2272

    That's one hell of a touchdown. I haven't always been very impressed with his blocking but that seems to be coming along as the season has worn on for Penn State. He's a junior and if you're looking for that super tall basketball guy that can run and really catch the football, that's him.
     
  12. fininpsl

    fininpsl A True Fan

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    He looked good against the Badgers on Saturday. I had never watched him before, but he had a terrific game.
     
  13. fininpsl

    fininpsl A True Fan

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    He's a legit 245 lbs now. He gives up height, but it's not just DB's that bounce off of him. He runs like a bigger Landry. And while he isn't a good blocker, I also don't think he's as bad at it as he's made out to be, and IMHO that can be taught. He's only been playing in-line for 2 years now. He's a tough cat, and I think you can take a guy like that and turn them into a decent blocker. If we keep Sims I like the idea of bringing Njoku on. But he definitely isn't a do it all TE. He would replace what Cameron was supposed to bring to the table for us. If we part ways with Sims, I think we really need a more complete TE though.
     
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Based on what I see on tape, I'd be surprised if he weighed in at that full 245 lbs on game days. He'll do it during the Combine because looking at his body you can tell he has the ability to get his water up and put on some Aaron Maybin weight. But all in all, he's light for a tight end in the NFL. It's not just the height. His entire frame is narrow, receiver-like. Which is great for him in some ways because he moves like a receiver. But it's bad for him as a blocker because he blocks like a receiver. And you say he's only been used in-line for two years, but based on what I've seen I hardly see him used in-line. That honor belongs to Christopher Herndon wherever applicable, I would say. Njoku isn't even the #1 TE there, Herndon clearly is and has the snap counts to prove it, I'm pretty sure.

    I mean just looking at his body, I believe he's a hard worker. I really do. But I also believe he's maxing himself out in terms of bulk. You'd basically be drafting another Thomas Duarte. Maybe a better Thomas Duarte, but they've already got Duarte and they're going to have back MarQueis Gray, and so David Njoku is not the guy they're looking for. Mike Gesicki may not even be that guy although I believe they could see him as another Greg Olsen type and think about it that way.

    They want a guy with true versatility. They want a guy that will play attached to the formation, often with trips to the other side, which is a formation they had planned to use heavily when Jordan Cameron was healthy but they've pretty much had to abandon since he's been out. They want a guy they can walk out to the perimeter in the red zone and run slants and fades with. And yeah they want a guy that they can slide into more of a joker slot receiver role or an H-Back role at will, because the defense's rules dictate a certain favorable matchup when they do that.

    Right now I think Mike Gesicki, Mark Andrews, O.J. Howard, Jeremy Sprinkle, Jordan Leggett, Jake Butt, maybe Pharaoh Brown, Phazahn Odom...those are the types they'll be looking at, some maybe more than others.
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Speaking of Mark Andrews does anyone know if he plans on coming out? He'd have to be the prohibitive favorite for top TE in the class.
     
  16. fininpsl

    fininpsl A True Fan

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    I always respect your opinion CK, but disagree on this one. I've seen the kid live 4 times, and at camp twice. IMHO he is larger than you think. Andre Johnson weighed in at the combine at 230 lbs at 6'2" and Njoku is significantly larger. We will hit the 245 mark at 6'4" easily. Herndon is the blocker they use inline, but it's not because of size. I will defer to you though if you think Njoku's style of play doesn't fit our needs.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I think he's Devin Funchess and right now Miami doesn't necessarily want Devin Funchess.
     
  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Mike Gesicki has announced he's staying at Penn State. He should be among the very top tight ends in 2018.
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Wow...South Dakota State TE Dallas Goedert is really good.
     
  20. finfan41

    finfan41 Rookie Finheaven VIP

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    hey slimm and ck have you guys check out Adam Shaheen from div.2 school Ashland university he declared early for the draft has good size 6-7 277lbs, 2016 stats 57-867-16td
     
  21. Snoop

    Snoop A True Fan

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    What do you think about Bucky Hodges?
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I haven't actually decided yet to be honest because I haven't updated my film watch of him all that much from what I did in 2015. I've seen some of his 2016 work. What I have seen did not exactly make me more comfortable with some of my concerns from 2015. I'm reluctant to comment more until I've actually studied his 2016, which is different from just having seen some of it.
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Well I hope you're right about how he weighs. Maybe the frame is just heavier than it looks. I think Herndon is the blocker they use in-line because of build more than pure size. Like I said Njoku has kind of that narrow hipped wide receiver build.

    Perhaps I've given the impression I'm not high on the guy, but that's not the case. Saying he's Devin Funchess is basically a de facto "he's a 1st round pick" declaration. You've gotta be high on a guy to declare that because nobody walks into the 1st round by default, as if it's incumbent upon us to prove why a guy does not belong in the 1st round rather than why a guy does belong. Another comparison I've often used is Jermichael Finley, who is quite an accomplished pro football player. So I'm clearly not trying to say that Njoku sucks.

    I don't think he is what the Dolphins are after, based on things I've heard. But I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

    And I don't think he's an in-line blocker. I guess you could have him do it but he's not more than an interference blocker that way. Maybe he doesn't need to be more than that.

    I would take him over O.J. Howard if that gives you a better idea.
     
  24. fininpsl

    fininpsl A True Fan

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    I never thought you were craping on Njoku as a prospect, and saying you prefer him over Howard is high praise. I agree he is a bit narrow waisted too. Maybe that does affect his ability to block to a degree, but I would gamble he ends up a better NFL blocker than Cameron was, though that's not saying much. I'm just saying he isn't small (Richt just this A.M. affirmed that Njoku is over 240 on the Joe Rose Show), and he absolutely has the strength to take on blockers. He snuffed out Bradley Chubb from NC State a couple times in their game this year, and that kid is no slouch of a DE. My comparable player for him is Jordan Reed. The funny thing is Njoku is blowing up right now, and he hasn't even performed at the combine. That's where he is going to show out. Frankly, it's looking like he won't be there when the Fins pick anyway. Any way, I appreciate your opinions on here. You, Hoops, and Slimm bring so much to this board in terms of player evaluations, and make it a much more enjoyable board.
     
  25. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

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    Njoku was so freakishly athletic in 2015. Gad, what a revelation. He looked like the type of rare athlete who used to show up on the roster in the late '90s and early '00s. In 2016 I did think he slipped a little bit. There was some frustration with him on Canes boards, as the running game slumped and played a big role in the 4-game losing streak at midseason. Some posters were preferring Herndon and his more physical style, along with dependability on short routes.

    Herndon should be a fullback, for one thing. He wears the correct number at 23. Too bad he came around now and not 20 or 30 years earlier, when his versatility at the fullback role would be better appreciated and utilized.

    Kaaya missed Njoku several times on plays that could have broken huge. I'm going to retain my impression of Njoku from 2015 and early 2016. Special player who can be an NFL star.

    He is narrow hipped and will have to withstand some abuse in the NFL and prove he's tough enough. The gazelle types at that position don't always pan out. I've been guilty of overstating them sometimes. Just look at Gronkowski and how he's built yet he takes all those lashing blows to the hip and knee area. Those are diving shoulder hits, not the type the rules have taken away, so the safeties seem to relish those opportunities and really unleash. The original Kellen Winslow was so fantastic since he did have that gazelle build and downfield danger yet he could also run all those blue collar turn-in routes like a Jason Witten. I'm not convinced Njoku can do that. He's an occasional mismatch piece, like a tight end version of what the Dolphins have in Devante Parker.
     
  26. fishfanmiami

    fishfanmiami Have you seen junior's grades ? Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    Sorry but i'm confused. Do you think he'll be a special player who can be an NFL star or an occasional mismatch piece ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2017
  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Anyone want to tell me why people have so thoroughly forgotten about Ricky Seals-Jones?

    A year ago this guy was David Njoku.
     
  28. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Not sure what you mean here on either account. May need more of an explanation.

    Ricky Seals-Jones is a big bodied wide receiver. He's always played the WR position at aTm. I've heard nothing anywhere at anytime regarding Seals-Jones making the conversion to the TE position. However, it's precisely where I project him at the next level, thus why I have him listed as a TE.

    He moves like a TE, runs routes like a TE, uses his body like a TE, and tests athletically as more of a TE than a WR. He's not going make much hay in the NFL at WR with 4.7 speed and a cone in the 7.4 range. Furthermore, he's an excellent stalk blocker with tremendous upper body strength and long arms. Ideal skillset for a flexed TE in certain formations.

    There's only 2 guys like him in this draft. The other is Jason Croom. Another big bodied WR who I project as more of a TE in the NFL. However, the difference is Croom already made the transition to TE last year for Tennessee, so he's well on his way to making the conversion. Particularly after showing up and winning MVP at the Tropical Bowl All Star Game as a TE.

    They both remind me a lot of David Martin coming out of Tennessee several years ago, who came out as a big bodied WR and made the conversion to TE at the next level.

    Njoku is simply a different caliber of athlete who has yet to scratch the surface of what he can become as only a RS sophomore. Croom and Seals-Jones are much further along in their journey in terms of maxing out their bodies physically than Njoku is at this stage. Still a lot of upside with David Njoku, and he's already a more physically gifted player.
     

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