Slimm's 2018 Quarterbacks (Underclassman)

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by TedSlimmJr, May 4, 2017.

  1. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    1A. Sam Darnold ** / USC / 6'4", 225

    [​IMG]



    1B. Josh Allen / Wyoming / 6'5", 222

    2. Josh Rosen / UCLA / 6'4", 218

    3. Trace McSorley / Penn St. / 6'0", 205

    4. Jake Browning / Washington / 6'2", 209

    5. Deondre Francois ** / Florida St. / 6'2", 205

    6. Drew Lock / Missouri / 6'4", 220

    7. Jarrett Stidham / Auburn / 6'3", 210

    8. Tanner Lee / Nebraska / 6'4", 220

    9. Clayton Thorson / Northwestern / 6'4", 220

    10. Chase Litton / Marshall / 6'6", 211

    11. Will Grier / W. Virginia / 6'2", 205

    12. Eric Dungey / Syracuse / 6'3", 207

    13. Brent Stockstill / MTSU / 6'0", 206

    [​IMG]



    14. Gus Ragland / Miami (OH) / 6'1", 211

    15. Tanner Mangum / BYU / 6'3", 215

    16. Hayden Moore / Cincinnati / 6'3", 218 (Used to watch this kid in high school for Hoover in Birmingham.)

    17. Dru Brown / Hawaii / 6'0", 200

    18. Brett Rypien / Boise St. / 6'2", 200













    Athlete:

    1. Lamar Jackson / Louisville / 6'3", 205

    2. Nick Fitzgerald / Mississippi St. / 6'5", 230
     
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  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I've been watching Chase Litton since he was a junior in high school here in Tampa. I knew one day he was going to rate as an NFL prospect. Still has a lot of maturing to do. I'd like to see him put it together this year.

    ---------- Post added at 03:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:26 PM ----------

    Obviously I'm a huge Josh Allen fan though. I don't think any prospect in the 2018 draft will end up going above him, when all is said and done.
     
  3. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    I'll say this, if I were to go back a decade or so there's only been 3 quarterbacks that I literally would've bet everything I owned they were going to be franchise caliber quarterbacks at the next level when they were coming out of college. Jay Cutler, Matt Ryan, and Andrew Luck.

    I'd make that same bet here with both Sam Darnold and Josh Allen. This is a Phillip Rivers/ Eli Manning type situation here. Except both have Andrew Luck's athleticism. Rarest of rare deals here.
     
  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Wow. That's saying something.
     
  5. mrbunglez

    mrbunglez Reading Is Fundamental Donator

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    I want to see Josh Allen in a Dolphins uniform next year, But I don't see that happening.
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    George Whitfield compared Josh Allen to like if Ferrari made an SUV, said his skill set is "mythical".

    I agree. It's pretty insane how many boxes he checks in terms of background, demeanor, leadership, stature, arm strength, spin, accuracy at distance, feet, balance, delivery, improvisation, throw selection, experience with pro fundamentals, strength.

    I was a big fan of Patrick Mahomes because he checked a lot of boxes, but it was pretty clear he didn't check the boxes for experience with pro fundamentals, or mechanical consistency. I thought it would be kind of nit-picky to think he needs to check those boxes for you to take him; no quarterback since Luck has been "perfect" in this way, in terms of risk reduction.

    We are basically one (fairly significant) step-up in Josh Allen's decision making from seeing the next Andrew Luck quarterback prospect. Some would argue even better than Luck based on the skill set being even more "mythical" as George Whitfield put it.
     
  7. mrbunglez

    mrbunglez Reading Is Fundamental Donator

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    If I see Allen go to the Jets or the Bills I'll puke and break stuff. He's the type of prospect you either want on your team or far away in another division. I honestly don't see this team picking in the top 5 next year.
     
  8. Lovethefish

    Lovethefish Well-Known Member

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    If the Jets are smart- they aren't- they should throw the season for the top pick, trade Richardson for a future 2nd Rder, and develop their young roster. But as stated- they are the Jets
     
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I would consider losing to the Jets just to make sure that didn't happen.
     
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  10. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase

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    Jets and Bills will win their usual 7 to 8 games.

    Browns will again be fighting for the worst pick and again they're gonna skip the top qbs..

    Donald and Allen are phenomenal talents though, I see future NFL star, but I did with Winston and he hasn't quite set the world on fire.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I get nervous about the Jets and Bills since both teams essentially punted the QB issue one year further down the road.

    Bills owner Terry Pegula fired the entire front office for doing so, didn't like Doug Whaley trading out of the #10 pick so that the Chiefs, not the Bills, could take Patrick Mahomes. Think the next GM and front office will have that in mind when it comes to evaluating Sam Darnold and Josh Allen?

    Let's hope they end up with Josh Rosen. They're gonna end up with a QB one way or another.

    The Jets conspicuously did nothing and I'm not sure it's because they have faith in Bryce Petty or Christian Hackenberg. That smelled like a decision by the GM that acknowledges they need a QB but this year is not the year to do it, and you don't make that decision unless you're implying that next year is the year you want to do this.

    The only good news from our standpoint is that the Cardinals, 49ers, Browns, and Jaguars were also forced to punt on the QB question. And you could kind of imagine that if things bounce a little funny for the Broncos, Redskins, Chargers, Saints, or Vikings, maybe they could find themselves in the market as well.

    My big hope is that two of those teams end up #1 and #2 overall and they just freeze the Bills and Jets out of the Allen/Darnold market because they themselves want Allen/Darnold. Or if it's a team that doesn't want a QB, then I hope there are higher bidders than the Jets and Bills.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2017
  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Pretty incredible to think there could easily be 11 teams interested in the Josh Allen/Sam Darnold sweepstakes next year.

    If you get that #1 pick and you don't need a QB, you should be able to demand a king's ransom in trade. Year by year we're seeing that it's getting more and more acceptable for teams to trade a bunch of stuff away for the right to take QB's that consensus aren't even that excited about. It's becoming "normal". So imagine if you get into another situation where a guy is considered the next Andrew Luck...and it's ambiguous whether or not you actually need him because of the presence of another passer that most regard as franchise caliber.
     
  13. dolfan91

    dolfan91 Starter Donator

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    Let's say for arguments sake, What would you do if you were the Dolphins GM and you landed the #1 pick in 2018? For me, it be hard to pass up talents like those 2 QBs. I'd take the QB and try to trade Tannehill.
     
  14. mrbunglez

    mrbunglez Reading Is Fundamental Donator

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    All I can say is if the Phins don't have a chance at Allen, hopefully he doesn't declare until 2019. I do not want to see him on either the Jets or the Bills.
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Just about any scenario where we end up with the #1 overall pick probably would involve a heavily diminished evaluation of Ryan Tannehill's status as the franchise quarterback.

    I suppose we could end up trading a player before the deadline to a team for their 1st round pick, and then seeing that team go down the toilet the rest of the year. In that lottery-like scenario, perhaps Miami is very clear in their stance that they're not considering a QB. In that scenario would say they should just offer up their pick to the highest bidder.

    Otherwise, I say there are three ways we could get to #1 overall and two of them are bad for Tannehill. His knee could blow up and he could miss the entire season, and we could suck mightily with Matt Moore and/or Brandon Doughty at the helm. That would not be good for Tannehill and you'd have to say that Miami could take a promising QB just to hedge their bet, if nothing else. If they end up with two worthwhile QBs they can always trade one later.

    The second scenario involves Tannehill just sucking that much. If that happened I think that would be the end of his time here in Miami. It would be a repeat, except worse, of when the Dolphins hired Bill Lazor in 2014 and initially looked like they had found the right match for Tannehill as he played well during 2H2014, but then had a more challenging year in 2015 that got everyone fired. Tannehill similarly will have had a 2016 improvement arc through 2H2016 under the new offense, then another drop-off as opposing defenses begin to figure out his tendencies in the new offense and Ryan can't overcome them.

    And honestly, part of me does worry about that scenario, particularly since they have just executed yet another off season where instead of focusing efforts on the ground game which was a big part of the 2H surge, they're once again robbing the core ground competency in order to have Tannehill lead an all-out aerial attack. History doesn't repeat, but sometimes it does rhyme.

    The third scenario is a total defensive collapse. In that scenario, Tannehill would probably survive, especially since with a total defensive collapse tends to come an offensive surge. If you do a lot of research into really poor defenses that allow a lot of yards and points, they tend to be accompanied by stronger offenses that can also gain yards and score points, just not nearly enough.
     
  16. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Love Darnold/Allen. Hate Rosen/Browning.

    I feel like Clayton Thorson is extremely underappreciated. I have him as #3 QB in the class at the moment. And where you have him ranked is the highest I've seen. What did you like and dislike about him?
     
  17. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    I like the kid. His personality, leadership. Intelligent, hard working type of guy that knows what he needs to get better at and puts in the work to do it.

    I like his size and the way the football comes out of his hand. Like the trajectory he puts on his passes. Like his decision making for a young quarterback.

    Dont really like the offense and being in the shotgun constantly and the zone read action, but that's just the landscape of college football now. Right now he just needs more experience and to keep getting better. Has to stop losing to the FCS and MAC teams.
     
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  18. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I don't know what to do with Rosen. Every one has been killing his background/intangibles if given the opportunity, and then there is the shoulder issue that was reportedly bothering him all season before shutting him down.

    I did Texas A&M and BYU, and then looked at a few clips in 2015. He definitely threw with more velocity in 2015.

    I think his accuracy is solid, but I struggled with his mental processing/decision making and overall poise. He seemed to make some poor decisions when extending.

    I recognize the upside, but I don't see him anywhere near Darnold/Rosen. He's closer to Trubisky and Watson for me. Put a 3rd round grade on him, acknowledging that may rise in the fall.

    Slimm/CK, what do you think of him?
     
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  19. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I went back and looked at a little Josh Rosen. Still don't like him. Honestly, I'm not sure what people are seeing. 4th round for me pre-season
     
  20. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I watched Auburn's spring game and I'm more looking forward to seeing Stidham in 2017 than Rosen.
     
  21. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Darnold looks special. The wind-up is less than ideal, and he's not perfect at reading D's, but that's about where my criticism ends. For his age/experience, he processes information quickly, has a big arm, great frame, high-end instincts, and he plays with an understanding of what the team needs to win. He looks like the total package.

    I'm not sold on Allen - not convinced he has it between the ears - but we'll see what he looks like in 2017.
     
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  22. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    But his arm strength is elite. Overused word but only way to describe it. Best arm strength in the last 5 years easily. Then you add in his AA and ability to improvise.

    I have a top 10 grade on Allen but the only things stopping from putting a huge grade are his mental processing and touch. If he improves upon those he could challenge Darnold. Who I gave an enormous grade to
     
  23. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Rosen is easy to like if you're a little old school like me, and already have an affinity for certain types of QB's geared more towards prototypical pocket passers.

    He looks like the kind of quarterback you want to draft. Rosen is smooth, and you like his passing profile within the pocket. He has the ability to be a starting caliber quarterback at the next level. I thought he was a little over hyped as a freshman, and he requires certain improvements the same as all QB's coming out of college. However, the questions Rosen will need to answer pertain more to off field than on field.

    I've obviously never met the kid or talked to him, but the main concerns about Rosen seem to revolve around leadership, desire, and how much he really loves football.

    If you're not sold on those three aspects of his character and don't feel like he's coachable, the rest doesn't matter.

    He's easy to like as I mentioned previously, especially if you're only looking at film. A lot of teams will fall for him. Although it ultimately should come down to how you feel about his character and gut feeling.

    I learned many years ago how critical gut feeling is when it comes to selecting your quarterback. It may be the most important, yet most overlooked tool you have at your disposal.

    NFL teams wonder why quarterbacks bust out at such a high rate, when the answer is clear. It's because they've made a habit of drafting them too damn early.

    An inexplicable amount of quarterbacks get hyped up, labeled and drafted as 1st round picks. When they're simply not, and are forced to play before they're ready.

    I've tried to get that point across for years. The demand for QB's overrides their better judgement and gut feeling.
     
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  24. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I still wish Miami drafted Kuechly, which was your pick for them at #8 - if I remember right.
     
  25. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Well that one was an easy decision for me personally, after evaluating all my information. I came away with the conclusion that Kuechly was more likely to be a great player. My gut wasn't sold on Ryan Tannehill being a great quarterback.

    If I don't feel good about a kid's mechanics, mental processing, character, poise, and overall gut feeling at the quarterback position...I don't issue a 1st round grade. I have to believe that a guy has what it takes to be a franchise caliber quarterback, or I can't take him in the 1st round. Whether it's the 8th pick, 15th pick, or 30th pick. I'll instead select a player I feel can be a great player at another position in the 1st round.

    What other reason could you justify using a 1st round pick on a QB if you're not sold he's franchise caliber? It makes no sense to me otherwise. You can get something other than franchise caliber at the QB position elsewhere. I don't come away sold on quarterbacks to that extent very often. Because they don't come around very often.

    I'll say this though, where Tannehill has impressed me is with his resiliency. He's put in the work to become a much better player than he was.

    What's interesting is that he began to make most of those improvements after the first quarter of the season last year....directly after I commented in this forum regarding how he needed to be more prepared to deal with pressure and to just play the game. Let his natural ability do some of the work instead of relying on every play to be executed exactly as it's drawn up.

    Adam Gase is trying to get him to take that a step further now. He'll have to in order to ever have a truly great season. Tannehill's work ethic, dedication, toughness, and ability to remain so coachable are why he has a chance to be successful as an NFL quarterback.
     
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  26. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    I think you'll like Tanner Lee if you study him. He caught my eye a few years ago at Tulane.

    Tremendous arm strength and throws with great velocity and touch to all areas of the field. All he needs is some quality coaching and mentoring to clean up some decision making and footwork issues.

    I like him a lot as a bit of a sleeper/developmental type. He's been hidden away at Tulane throwing a fairly high number of interceptions early in his career.

    He'll do big things this season at Nebraska against Big-10 competition every week.
     
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  27. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    That's really what it comes down to with Rosen for me. My gut tells me Darnold and Allen will be top 10 QB's. My gut also tells me Rosen will not for those reasons mentioned, and while talented I think a bit overrated in that department. I do agree that he has starting potential though.
     
  28. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Yeah I read somewhere that they think he is potential 1st rounder one day. I'll have to take a glance
     
  29. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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  30. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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  31. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Tanner Lee is at least a 4th round grade on talent alone. All I could find were 1 cut where he was overmatched against Temple and a highlight, but enough to see his outstanding arm talent.

    Can't wait to watch him play after 1+ years of Mike Riley coaching with some actual talent around him.
     
  32. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I really like Stidham. Assuming injuries are not a persistent problem, which doesn't seem to be the case at this point, he has the combination of arm talent (strength, release, and accuracy) and feel for the position that moves the needle. 4/5-star recruit out of high school with a 6/1 TD/INT ratio, completed 69% of his passes, and averaged 11.6 YPA as a Freshman. While those stats are inflated because of the Big 12 competition, he was a Freshman, and he shows outstanding touch and accuracy downfield, can squeeze the ball into tight windows, and he generally moves well within the pocket. Every once in a while, he'd freeze up, but I'm not going to knock a Freshman too hard for that.

    The sample size is very small at the college level, but he was great at Stephenville, and he projects as someone with the poise and maturity to handle the position. Without a huge year, he almost certainly returns for 2018, but I think a big year is likely.
     

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