so are we ready to shed millions?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Tannchise, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:22 PM.

  1. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    No -- at Tannehill's level of performance he sustained for a good stretch last year (passer rating just above 100), the team would've very likely won three more games this year than with Cutler/Moore.

    With Smith that figure might've increased to four, given that Smith's level of performance this year is a decent bit higher than Tannehill's was last year.
     
  2. fininpsl

    fininpsl A True Fan

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    Any team can open up a boatload of cap space by cutting every player that offers up some cap savings. That's not magic, and it doesn't mean we are in great shape in terms of the cap. If you make the sensible cuts and keep the players we should, we are only going to have between $10 and $20 million to play with after paying for the draft class and signing lesser vets to finish out the 2018 roster. Not that much scratch in terms of NFL free agency. People were talking about all the cash we were gonna have to use in free agency this past off season, and the guys we brought in were Timmons, Larsen, Fasano, a half of McDonald, and ultimately Jay Cutler. The money spent on Cutler was cash they had budgeted for carrying over into 2018.
     
  3. Travis34

    Travis34 chea Finheaven VIP Donator

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    When you say that, are you referring to 3 more total wins on the season, or 3 more wins than what we currently have?

    sorry if you've already detailed that somewhere
     
  4. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    Based on the way the team is currently functioning, its expected record for a season would be 4-12/5-11.

    With Tannehill playing the way he did last year for the stretch of good play he sustained for a while, the expected record for this year's team -- with all else equal -- would be 7-9/8-8.
     
  5. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    I've only seen fales throw one pass in a regular season game...albeit it was a good one...

    but I have nothing to even try and measure the player on...that would be gase and the staff that sees him every day in practice and camp...I bet he gets less than 5 reps though in game week prep...all scout team work unless hes the 2 deep that week which still means he gets little to no reps...
     
  6. dnr3131

    dnr3131 Well-Known Member

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    Pouncey will be gone. Why pay him when you can draft the top rated center in the second round? Even if he restructures he would heave to accept a back-up roll, don't see that happening.
    Kiko and Branch may be back, only because of their contracts, not necessarily because of play.
    James is gone, Davis will take that spot over on the cheap for the next 2 years (no restructure offered, imo).
    Wish we could cut Suh and get the 28 million that he is scheduled to make in '18. Nope (thanks Tannebaum), he'll be back. I like the player, but not at that cost!
    Tanny is some what of a wild card, not exactly sure what Miami's plans are at the QB position. I am not opposed to staying with Tanny, I also wouldn't mind spending that $ on Cousins instead.
     
  7. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott A True Fan

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    Cut Tannehill, save $15 million, and sign a vet QB for $20 million? Makes no sense unless that vet QB is an All Pro and that's not happening.
     
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  8. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    I agree with you when it comes to Pouncey and James that it'd be the best thing to do. However, that doesn't mean our FO will do it. See, it makes sense to do what you're suggesting but when was the last time our FO did something that made sense?

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  9. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    I think people should just forget about Cousins coming here. Tannehill will be the starter unless we draft a QB in the first round that comes in and beats him for the job. 99.9% sure that we're not starting a free agent QB unless there's another injury to Tanny. I have no problem starting him and I have no problem drafting a QB high. I'd have a problem bringing in a guy for 20mill a year

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  10. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I would LIKE Pouncey gone, but Gase apparently loves him. Thus, my inclination towards restructure. James can't get big money anywhere else, thus, gone or pay cut
     
  11. randomname

    randomname A True Fan

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    A purge won't do any good unless it includes Tannenbaum.
     
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  12. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    LOL.
     
  13. Tannchise

    Tannchise A True Fan

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    it actually does make sense if you have reached the ceiling with Tannehill. Not my call
     
  14. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    How can we say that after we saw him improving under Gase every week before his injury? He definitely hasn't hit his ceiling
     
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  15. lurking

    lurking FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    It's just another what if
     
  16. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    Well then by all means, show how he isn't.

    If the post evokes a laugh, it should be all too easy. ;)
     
  17. Tannchise

    Tannchise A True Fan

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    The thing about RT, is no matter what, we don't know if his knee will stand the test of time. Miami should do themselves a favor and add real competition to the position
     
  18. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    That i think we all agree on. But i think in the form of a draft choice not a high paid vet
     
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  19. lurking

    lurking FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    There’s no injury feared more in football than the dreaded ACL tear. It’s at least one season missed these days, which isn’t too bad considering it used to be a career-threatening diagnosis.

    Now NFL athletes are expected to make full recoveries, no matter what position they may play. Quarterbacks do not suffer the injury very often, but the track record for recovery has been very good. That’s good news for both Vikings and Ravens fans. Joe Flacco will start the 2016 season after tearing his ACL last November, and Minnesota hopes Teddy Bridgewater will be able to get back on the field for 2017 after suffering his injury this week during practice.
    Tom Brady, 2008
    [​IMG]

    Post-injury Brady hasn’t reached the dazzling heights he did before tearing his ACL, but his supporting cast is a big reason why. If you gave today’s Brady Randy Moss and Wes Welker in their prime, he’d be just as productive as he was in 2007. Brady actually looks more mobile now than he ever did before the injury.
    Sam Bradford, 2013 and 2014
    [​IMG]

    We’re still in the wait-and-see stages with Bradford. Last season was his first back after suffering ACL tears in 2013 and 2014. He showed some serious signs of rust early on before improving over the second half. We’ll know a lot more about Bradford’s recovery after 2016.
    Carson Palmer, 2014
    [​IMG]

    Palmer’s late-career renaissance was just getting underway when he suffered the second ACL injury of his career. It did not take him nearly as long for him to find his form the second time around. He posted career bests in passer rating, yards and touchdowns for the Cardinals in 2015. Of course, having the best supporting cast in football certainly helped him bounce back.

    I think he'll be just fine ....




     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 4:40 PM
  20. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    Like Nick said, I agree too but we should draft a QB instead of spending 20mill in one that'd have to come in and learn a new system. Yes I know a rookie would have to learn a new system too but he'd be younger and cheaper

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  21. Dolphins512

    Dolphins512 My Friends Call Me Bob Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Not sure if your laughing at cutting Tannehill or that Cousin's in one of the best QB's in the league.

    Although on reflection....both of those notions are eligible to be laughed at.
     
  22. DefensiveEnd76

    DefensiveEnd76 Football Guru

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    Well if we didn't have a goof like Tannenbaum throwing money around like it's candy we wouldn't be in a financial bind.
     
  23. Ray R

    Ray R Well-Known Member

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    This is how I see our QB situation and its effect on the cap.

    First consideration is who will we have in the QB positions:

    1) We have Tannehill as QB. There is no scenario I see with him leaving.
    2) I remember Cutler as being on a one year contract. There is no reason to believe we will bring him back.
    3) Moore is a serviceable backup QB and will probably be back, but I suspect we will look for a replacement backup QB over the next two years.
    4) Fales is here as a stop gap measure at QB. Unless he shows himself to be much better than Doughty, he will probably be released.
    5) With either Fales or Doughty as our 3rd string QB, I believe we will try to bring in QB competition thru the draft every 2 or 3 years, determined by the quality of QB's available vs. other positional demands of this team. Hopefully one of these men will rise to the position of backup QB, allowing us to develop a new 3rd string QB. I look forward to eventually seeing the Dolphins draft and grow our own 1st string QB.

    This should leave us at the same level of QB expense as last year plus any increase in those salaries, unless Tannehill restructures his contract with us, which I hope would actually reduce our QB cost vs. the cap. Because of all this, I feel our expenses at this position are under pretty good control.
     
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  24. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I agree, except I expect Gase to kick tires on a Moore replacement.
     
  25. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    I dont care if matt moore will play for free...I cant do anymore of that tape...purge it from the building right after you boot cutlers rear
     
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  26. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    gase has done a bang on job as a play caller of putting these qbs in position to succeed and they flat out stink

    pack yo ****
     
  27. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I agree, but what I want and what I expect are rarely the same. I DO expect Gase to look at other backups. I can't see where getting one with equivalent talent for less money would be difficult.
     
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  28. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    The Dolphins are in good shape with regard to the percentage of the salary cap allocated to Tannehill, as they have a starting quarterback who functions on average somewhere between the 50th and 80th percentile in the league, depending on your view of him, and who has a corresponding salary cap hit.

    Where they have a problem in my opinion is in allocating so much of a percentage of the salary cap to Suh, who is certainly one of the top players at his position, but who doesn't have enough of an impact on opposing passing games to warrant it.

    The situation they're facing with Tannehill and Suh, combined, is that they have a quarterback who performs at a level such that one of the league's best pass defenses is needed to contend for a Super Bowl, while a player who does nowhere near what's needed for the pass defense (Suh) is busy absorbing a great deal of the salary cap money necessary to assemble and pay such a defense.

    That's a rather "stuck" position. You need either 1) a better quarterback, in which case you can contend for a Super Bowl with a worse pass defense, or 2) Suh's money freed up, so that the necessary pass defense can be assembled and paid.

    If I were running the team I'd approach Suh and indicate all of this to him, ask him how badly he wants to win a Super Bowl with the Dolphins, and then either trade or restructure him, based on his response.

    Tom Brady takes regular pay cuts to help keep the Patriots highly competitive. It's time to consider asking Suh to do the same in my opinion.
     
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  29. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    Some good points. The Suh deal was just horrible. Just T-buam wanting to make a splash as usual but going about it the wrong way. Great player but you don't pay a DT that kind of money. I'm afraid that he'll do something stupid again this coming off season

    Ozzy rules!!
     
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  30. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I honestly wonder how bad Doughty looks in practice that they like having him throw practice balls but they don't want him even being the backup when Moore is hurt.

    Maybe they like the fact that he gives our defense a chance to gain confidence in practice?
     
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  31. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    How did I forget about that? God, where is the :sidelol: emoticon when I really need it...
     
  32. where's th'fish

    where's th'fish Scout Team Donator

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    The thing about passer statistics, advanced or not, is that you can't separate the player from the rest of the offense. Making a statistical argument in favor of one QB over another is a very dicey proposition.

    If you go deep into the numbers, you'll find that Tannehill's splits with pressure vs no pressure are the most radical in the league and have been for several years. Without pressure Tannehill is extremely dangerous. With pressure he looks relatively bad. Build a good line and we'll all forget about replacing Tannehill. Don't and we might just have to, eventually. In any case, it's a team issue that reflects strongly on the player's numbers and performance. And god knows Cousins has had pretty good in Washington, which is not to say that I don't like him.
     
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  33. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    His own team has spent the last several years refusing to sign him to a long term contract.
     
  34. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    If you go even deeper into the numbers -- looking at actual game situation in which the pressures occurred -- it's even more interesting. Tannehill had the highest yards per pass attempt against the blitz of any NFL quarterback in 2016 with 9.6 yards per attempt when blitzed.

    But he fared pretty badly in pressure situations against three and four man rushes. In other words, when teams dropped 7-8 into coverage and still got rushers on him. Those are the plays when he did his best when he was able to break the pocket and get his guys on the scramble drill, as well.

    There's more interesting stuff you can dig up about our 2016 passing game actually being pretty good situationally. Everyone knows about the red zone efficiency, but how about the fact that we were actually significantly better than the League average at converting through the air on 3rd and 7+ ? The reason that our third down conversation rate was so bad was simply that we had such a high number of 3rd and 7+ that even being pretty good at it wasn't much of a help.
     
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  35. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    This would be true of nearly any QB. The problem is that (IMO) the Dolphins allowed pressure with 3 or 4 rushers too often and too quickly. Pressure from a 4 man rush after 3 or 4 seconds is not the same thing as pressure from a 4 many rush in 2 seconds. Down and distance is another huge factor. Quick pressure from the front 4 is less of a problem on 2nd and 1 than it is on 3rd and 9. Also, less of an issue when leading by 21 points than when down by 21. Up by 21? Eat the sack. No damage to the QB rating. Down by 21? Scramble to make something happen or try a difficult throw. The QB in the first situation is somehow better than the QB in the second.

    Excellent point.
     
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  36. dolphintodd

    dolphintodd FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I am not saying Cousins is better but he has had some nice seasons and has more playoff experience than Tannehill (zero playoff experience). Saying that the logistics of acquiring cousins is terrible when we have Tannehill for less money.
     
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  37. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I think it was clear in 2016 that Ryan Tannehill performed well enough at situational football that the team would be stupid to dump a team-friendly contract to chase another quarterback who will demand a much less team-friendly contract and has a lot of "question marks" surrounding him. When you're talking #1 in the red zone, #1 against the blitz, good on third and long, ELITE at 40+ yard throws, etc., then quite frankly, we'd be paying money to downgrade. The situation in which you'd do that is if the knee is no good.

    I think bringing in another quarterback with starting potential is an EXCELLENT idea. But breaking the bank for Kirk Cousins? Haaaaaaaaaa, no.
     
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  38. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs foos-ball is the devil! Donator

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    Only on Finheaven is Tannehill better than Cousins.
     
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  39. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Yeah, if we could get our hands on Baker Mayfield (becomes less likely with each passing day and praises about his passion for the game, "It factor," incredible leadership, and comparisons to Russell Wilson), I'd be all for it and be happy to watch it all play out. (just hope the Jets don't get him)

    Otherwise, I don't care about any self-serving convolution of statistics or "grass is greener syndrome" love over middle of the road QBs, I've seen enough of Tannehill to hope like crazy he holds up physically for the next 5+years.
     
  40. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Baker Mayfield is going to be a first round draft pick. Anyone who thinks that guy should go in the second or later does not actually watch football. The crotch chop ain't going to hurt his draft stock, either. What's going to hurt his draft stock is the fact that he's got a DUI on his resume and there are two kinds of men in the world: Those who get DUIs and those who don't. When you put yourself in the first category, you don't get out of it.

    There are a number of quarterbacks coming out in this draft class that I've watched and been impressed with. The only guy that would cause me to get upset if we drafted him would be Lamar Jackson. He's likely going in the first round on the strength of his workout numbers, and to say I have serious concerns about him as a thrower of the football would be a huge understatement. Nooooo thank you.

    You're entitled to your opinion. I'm certainly not going to agree with it. Seeing this board kill Cutler for a football thrown to Devante Parker that got picked off because it popped out of Parker's hands, with the reasoning that "he shouldn't have thrown it into triple coverage" -- and then seeing people pine for Kirk Cousins. Well, once again, I wish for the :sidelol: emoticon in situations like this.
     
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