Speilman Progress Report and his "needle in the haystack deal"

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Alxphins, Aug 23, 2004.

  1. Alxphins

    Alxphins FinHeaven VIP Donator

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    I am somewhat surprised at the people who have praised Speilman’s and Wanny’s performance to date. The latest chapter being the laudatory praise being heaped on Speilman by people on this board for the Wally/Booker trade. Does anyone remember that Booker had an off-season last year and he is a receiver coming off of a knee injury? A little bit of a gamble maybe? I have read all the scenarios that say Wally was not going to play for us and we had to get rid of him etc. etc. but this deal is a big gamble, just like a good number of Speilman’s moves Feeley (no proven track record), McIntosh (injury), Boston (attitude – although this seemed to be working out before he got injured).

    Point is Speilman strikes me as the type of guy who tries to make what I like to call the “needle in the haystack†deal. Find that jewel that nobody else knows about for great value. The concept is great but translating that into reality seems to be a problem, e.g. see performance of Feeley to date.

    I do not think it is appropriate to send Speilman to the wolves at this point, it is too early. However, I watched that preseason game against the Redskins and I simply cannot imagine how anyone can praise anyone on this team from management to players for that performance as it relates to the offensive side of the ball. It was beyond pathetic. Feeley and Feidler look equally inept. Our offensive line looked inept as did our running backs. Mind you this was a Redskin team who left a number of defensive starters in Washington.

    We still have a way to go and things may change, but to date the progress report for Speilman and Wanny relating to moves and coaching as they affect the offensive side of the ball is either Poor or Incomplete.

    Think about it:

    1) Offensive line is in disarray (Read that Wade Smith is also playing poorly) and this is the key to the team
    2) No running backs (Please note that Wanny said after the Skins game that we will not be a passing team)
    3) Which leads me to the fact that we cannot even get consistently average play from our QB’s
    4) Fiasco with the offensive coordinators

    We may or may not want to face it as fans but our offense is in serious trouble and we have only two preseason games left. I know Ricky Williams (Jerk) leaving and Boston’s injury are not the management’s fault, however, one thing that was in their control was rebuilding the o-line and to date it has bee a nightmare (other than the pick-up and play of Jeno James).
     
  2. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    So just become a Jets fan why dont you? the whole world is set to put Spielman and Wanny to the cross. so be it. I dont here anyone saying what tehy would realistically would have done and if they did, alot of people would still not be happy. I think everyone is just too damn selfish, just like Ricky.
     
  3. LOCAL SCUM!

    LOCAL SCUM! Banned Hammered

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    If Huizenga doesn't realize that he REALLY has the WORST possible people in the front office for the Dolphins, and what a HORRENDOUS job they are doing, we are going into a serious nose-dive here and the future could really look disgusting! WE are getting WOrse by the year!!! Ok...Ricky wasn't Dave's fault, but did they plan fora possible Ricky injury??(which is the same crap as retiring for us) D. Boston isn't their fault, but did they account for that possible injury?? Why the hell did they give up the extra pick when going for Carey (who was already going to be a reach)if they're not even putting him in there and he's not beating anyone out of anywhere? We're gonna be the Chargers in afew years if Wayne doesn't make some changes this year.
     
  4. bigmiamifan

    bigmiamifan Perennial All-Pro

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    I say keep Rick but fire Dave and promote Trestman to temp HC.
     
  5. Dphins4me

    Dphins4me A True Fan

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    Yea, but these guys are looking great in practice. Alot of people get over hyped from reports coming out of practice. Last year people had everyone believing Thompson was making plays all over the field. However what you do in practice does not matter if you cannot duplicate it in game situations.

    Practice is just that practice.

    Also people put way too much stock in preseason games. Yes Miami has looked inept in both games, but they are trying to find out what will work and what will not. The Washington game. It was obvious that Gibbs game planned for this game. His team had been embarrassing for their first two games and he needed to make sure they had something positive to build on.


    Miami is in for a long season. Especially after DW comments the other day.
    That proves what some already believe. Why go out and get Booker when your head coach is telling everyone. "If we cannot run the ball, then we surely will not pass it." WRs are an after thought to DW. Its play defense and run the ball. Bookers talent will most likely be wasted with this head coach.
     
  6. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    No. And neither should you. He had an ankle injury and finished the season strong.

    Booker is a two time pro bowler!

    Hence the need to add players on offense.
     
  7. colmax

    colmax Seasoned Veteran

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    Not many teams have the luxury of having good backups to starters. That's just the way of the league. Miami "planned" for these guys to start. They have to go with what they have NOW.

    I totally agree with original poster's comments. This is by far the nuttiest off/preseason I've seen from ANY team.
     
  8. dolfan87

    dolfan87 The Human Bullet

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    I hate pre-season.
     
  9. F^(K_RICKY

    F^(K_RICKY Active Member

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    Plus dont forget, The dolphins are bumping the cap and dont have the high draft picks or time to really groom a star or sign a superstar without some issues. I think speilman has done a good job working under the fact that most teams know what we need and somewhat have us over a barrell. If boston stayed healthy he would have been a great move(still maybe a good move). Wale was not signing with us and we still managed to get a pro bowl receiver and a high draft pick. I agree Feely may have been a stretch but that still remains to be seen but to me that gives him a grade of a B for the offseason moves. Just remember if Ricky didnt retire and D.BO didnt get injured that we were looking at a possibly powerhouse offense, easily the most talented in the AFC east.
     
  10. Alxphins

    Alxphins FinHeaven VIP Donator

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    No. And neither should you. He had an ankle injury and finished the season strong.

    Quote from Herald Article:

    "However, between the revolving-door situation at quarterback and a knee injury that cost him three games, the 6-foot, 212-pound Booker slumped to 52 catches last season."

    Booker is a two time pro bowler!

    I am not saying he cannot be a pro-bowler again, but as far as I can tell to date we do not have an o-line that can pass protect and we do not have a qb to throw it to him.

    Hence the need to add players on offense.[/QUOTE]

    My point exactly. But I think you get what you pay for.


    One last point. Let me be clear I think management has done a great job on the defensive side of the ball, but I am afraid that effort will be wasted.
     
  11. Alxphins

    Alxphins FinHeaven VIP Donator

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    Very mature response. You sound like a jet fan. My point is simply that while Spielman and Wanny have done a great job on the defensive side on the ball they have done an equally poor job on the offensive side. I really don't think any objective person can dispute that and if we don't get help soon it will be a long season.

    As for your second point, honestly it makes no sense to me. Maybe you can clarify it.
     
  12. Nicky Napoleon

    Nicky Napoleon We'll Miss You Nubs

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    I couldnt have said it better myself. If we had Boston, CC, and Booker with Ricky still here we would be Superbowl bound. Now that Boston is out and the running game is not doing so well we needed to add a player on offense, teams were trying to offer us Ontarrio Smith for Ogun straight up. Thats the kind of RB teams were offering, instead Rick went to a WR and got a 2 time Pro Bowler and a 3rd round pick. Which could be used to land a RB if we really arent hapy with Minor at the seasons start.
     
  13. finregime

    finregime Who's Yo Daddy

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    Spiel has done fine.The only thing I blame anyone for at this point is why would you have a pound,pound,pound running game but have Minor as your 2nd string if you didn't feel like he could carry the load.
    We should have never been caught with our pants down when Ricky retired and there is no excuse for it.
    Green Bay has Davenport and Fisher who both fit their style,Vikes have 3 every down backs and so on.
    I dont like Wanny more for this reason more than his coaching ineptitude.
     
  14. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    The Herald is wrong. This is from si.com:

    This is from stats inc during the year last year:

     
  15. DolfanDaveInATX

    DolfanDaveInATX A True Fan

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    Whenever you make the sort of dramatic changes that we have with our offensive line -- four new starters, only two returning players who saw meaningful action here last season -- it is wildly unrealistic to expect that group to come together quickly. Add in the fact that there is very little experience with that group, and that process will probably take longer than usual. I don't doubt that the group we have will turn out to be an upgrade over what we had last year, but it may take most of the season for them to figure out how to play together.

    Accept that 2004 is a transition year and you'll be able to get through it much more easily.
     
  16. colmax

    colmax Seasoned Veteran

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    Good point, finregime. Miami wouldn't be in this "run, Ricky, run" situation if they had planned a little better. With that said, maybe they were hoping Leonard Henry would pan out, with the possibility of coming in and taking the load if Ricky had gotten injured. He looked damn good last year during the pre. He's about the same size with a similar running style, with a little more slash. When I read Wanny's last press conference, he referred to him a couple of times. What's up with Henry, anyone?
     
  17. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    My point exactly. But I think you get what you pay for.


    One last point. Let me be clear I think management has done a great job on the defensive side of the ball, but I am afraid that effort will be wasted.[/QUOTE]
    this is the problem with trusitng the media at there word. :rolleyes:
     
  18. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    Ok, spielman should be fired. you happy now?
     
  19. Dphins4me

    Dphins4me A True Fan

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    I've argued this point on another site. Very few understood.
     
  20. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    this is the problem with trusitng the media at there word. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    I dont know how the hell this response came through but what i was going to say was that yoiu cant trust the media and the words they use to describe the "terrible news" they so joyously cant wait to spread.
     
  21. Jeep

    Jeep Premium Member Donator

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    How stupid!!

    Seems whenever someone states the obvious, that this (offense and FO)team is in total disarray, some jerk has to say "become a Jets fan"
     
  22. Lights_Out

    Lights_Out Hit Somebody!!!

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    every team takes chances on guys and no one is perfect...somethings are out of their hands...still this has been the worst off-season ever...and i am still excited for it to begin...if we knew that we were going to win everygame why watch
     
  23. Dolfan73

    Dolfan73 Finally Back Home

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    No offense guys, but, you could've put this under 6 other threads on this site. I'd much rather look at some new "material".
     
  24. PhinKev

    PhinKev Pro Bowler

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    Actually, all you have to do is suggest that Rick might behaving a bad year and you will hear it. If Rick traded Chris Chambers for a 7th, some people would say it was a great salary cap saving move and opened it up for Simmons, Tolver etc.

    Frankly, this issue about the strength or weakness of the FO is a matter of opinion and I'm just not going to beat it to death anymore. We can all judge for ourselves.
     
  25. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE NFL'S WINNINGEST TEAM

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    The sky is falling
     
  26. Drfletcherdc

    Drfletcherdc A True Fan

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    Let's play a couple of games that actually mean something before we hang someone. The offensive line is our main weakness which could turn into a positive when all the pieces are in place.
     
  27. mbmonk

    mbmonk Dolphin's official bedwetter

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    1) Rick attempted to get O Line in FA and did come away with Jeno James, our best O Line man, St. Claire, and McIntosh. Also he drafted Vernon Carey who is playing poorly right now but he is a rookie and you normally give 3 years to a draft class before you evaluate it.

    2) Ricky retired out of the blue. And with the hold out/retire clause in RW contract I wouldn't expect RW to retire either.

    3) Rick TRIED to upgrade the QB position. While I am not a Feeley fan at least he addressed it this seson.

    4) Isnt the offensive cordinator wantardo's deal? Asking a real question not being sarcastic.
     
  28. ChambOfCommerce

    ChambOfCommerce Banned Hammered

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    I am so sick of your posts in just the last 2 days that I wish I held the key to the ban button. We have problems, but we don't need to listen to your BS constantly.
     
  29. MDFINFAN

    MDFINFAN Reach for the Stars Super Donator Donator

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    Let's look at what they tried to do. If they had succeeded, this is what we would have had.

    WR-CC, LT-Wade, LG-Jeno, C-Mckinney, RG-Woody, RT-Tait, WR-DB
    QB-Jay or AJ, RB-R. Williams, FB-R. Konrad, #3 WR-DT or 1st Rd Draft Pick.

    I said #3 WR probably would have been a 1st RD WR, because that was the talk before Woody and Tait didn't sign. They signed unusually high contracts for their positions. This caused us to change our draft priority to OL, and rightfully so.

    Our depth at OL would have been Yates, German, Whitley and probably St. Clair or McIntosh. We may have signed St. Clair because he would have been a cheap Vet. McIntosh probably wouldn't have been signed.

    If eveything had worked our draft probably would have looked like this.

    1st: WR, 2nd gone, 3rd ?, 4th: Poole, 5th Hadnot, 6th: Bua, 7th Pope
    Still a good draft. The FO was clearly trying to upgrade the O.

    Ogun would still be traded, we defintely couldn't meet his demands if we signed Woody and Tait. Even the draft as it was didn't work out for us, Philly moves up and steals the player we wanted. We get Carey instead.

    So how did it work out, we sign McIntosh and St. Clair, we drafted Carey. We also sign Wilkins, Snoops, Sippio, Goodspeed, John Johnson, J. James, AJ Feeley, S. Morris, R. Bellamy. We trade for D. Boston. We sign undrafted FA F. Russell, along with others.

    So we were prepared to go into the season with:

    WR-CC, LT-Wade, LG-James, C-Mckinney, LG Jerman, LT St. Clair, WR-DB
    QB-Jay or AJ, RB- RW, FB, Konrad with 3rd WR DT.

    TC gets ready to start and then it does and:

    RW quits, DB-injured, Newson- injured, Konrad (injured, not as bad (nab), S. Morris injured-nab, L. Henry injured-nab, Simmons-slowed injured, DT- hamstring, CC- hammy. The we sign A. Edwards, and now a trade for Booker.

    We brought in a WR coach, A QB coach, A TE coach. Making adjustments on the play book. 2 of the 3 coaches as ex OC's.

    So we have 4 WR's with experience of 3 or more years, we have a qb fight, we still have Travis only, we've learned that Morris can run the ball. We've learn where not to switch the OL positions. So I don't know how any one says the FO didn't try to upgrade the O this off season, it just didn't go their way. Now the injuries, man this has been one bad off season, but not because the O wasn't addressed.
     
  30. NathanHunt

    NathanHunt Fluff Girls are underpaid.

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    I'm not being sarcastic or loud. I would like some conjecture on this issue, however.

    We gave up 2 1st rounders for Ricky. Before this year, Dave was running the war room. Dave drafted for the defense. The offense was left with scraps from the proverbial draft table.

    How were we to backup Ricky? Who? How were we to pay them?

    Wanny is starting to reap what he has sewn. His complete dedication to defense has left the offense with BARELY enough decent starters. Until this year, we've not had any elite WRs on the roster. We got lucky when we drafted Chambers. We certainly have had no previous luck with FA WRs.

    We've never made a serious push for any elite offensive player except for Ricky. How can you expect to have quality depth when you can't even field quality starters? Is it no surprise to fans that we have no quality backups?

    Have we not learned that Chambers IS/WAS our only quality option at WR. We had no capable backup for him. And when DBo went down, we are surprised we didn't have a quality backup for him?

    We had never had an elite RB in DECADES. Once we finally acquire one, we expect his backup to be elite? Even decent? Because if we had decent backups, they would have been starting before Ricky arrived.

    Rick has FINALLY been given the reigns. And now, now that Wanny's fruitless moves and wasted picks have come back to haunt us, you want to BBQ Rick?

    Rick is merely the current GM. He wasn't the previous GM. Personnel decisions have not depended on Rick until this year. MANY of his moves this year have been to FIX Wanny's mistakes. However, it seems Rick is only receiving the benefit of TRAINING CAMP to gauge his performance? But, we allowed Wanny to flounder for how many YEARS?

    Everyone of Rick's moves will not be perfect. He's been dealt a bad hand. However, if we fire him NOW and enjoy success next year or in the next few years.... we would be given credit to the next "Johny Come Lately" GM and profess him to be a Genious. The real Genious is currently sitting in Davie.

    Give the guy a chance. Most of you are forgetting he has been given the directive to replace a starting ELITE WR, ELITE RB, 4 of 5 starting offensive lineman, QB AND provide depth at EACH offensive position in ONE OFFSEASON. It is also taken for granted that he designed an offensive line for that ELITE RB that is no longer here. Not too mention he acquired a QB for a run oriented team that can no longer RUN the ball.

    To say his challenge has been daunting... is in itself a bigger gaffe than micro-analyzing a trade or move based on statistics and gut feelings.

    Rick's the real deal... I'd challenge any GM to endure the offseason he has had in his FIRST year and make the quality moves he has made. I ask the haters to please consider the entire picture before moving from thread to thread dealing with each situation individually without considering the whole picture.
     
  31. FIN-IN-RI

    FIN-IN-RI Banned Hammered

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    still think it was a knee injury, alxphins? Booker finished last season strong, the man isnt declining, he had 3 below avg QBs throwin him the rock.

    Everything you said in your post has been re-hashed over and over and none of it has any validity until we see either production or no production through the season... if u wanna ***** and moan by week 8 when we havent done spit on offense then im behind you, until then, have patience.
     
  32. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt I drink your milkshake!

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    My god man. None of this **** would be a concern if we didn't have an injury problem and if Ricky didn't retire. We can't blame these things on Rick Spielman.
     

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