Star or System Guy?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Pandarilla, Jul 9, 2017.

  1. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Well-Known Member

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    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...guy-judging-ezekiel-elliott-dak-prescott-more

    Bucky just put up major bulletin board material for Jarvis and Jay. Calls them both system guys. Sorry, Mr. Brooks but you failed to mention that both were tops in yards after contact. If that s screams system guy, I want to know which system schemes for broken tackles.

    Not to harsh Bucky so badly, I can almost see it as a compliment for Gase. However, he called Jarvis an unpolished route runner unworthy of double teams. He completely disavowed Jay's 3 200 yd. Performances. Saying he wasn't in the same league as the other three to do it.

    Oh well, it's a good starting point to get them in the discussion, I guess. I also think Parker will be the only one viewed as a Star under Bucky's criteria. Everyone else will be viewed as a product of Gase.
     
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  2. gregorygrant83

    gregorygrant83 A True Fan

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    I disagree about Landry's route running. I think he's pretty good in that area and is far from unpolished. However, I agree that Ajayi isn't in the same class as Ricky, OJ or Earl Campbell. I think it way to early and very unrealistic to put him in that class of backs. OJ and Earl are All-Time elite level backs and Ricky had his moments where he looked liked he belonged in that group as well. Ajayi has had 3 or 4 great games. I need to see 3 or 4 great seasons to put at RIcky level... and that's still not near Earl Campbell and OJ.
     
  3. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Well-Known Member

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    Yup, Landry prides himself on precise route running.

    I'm not betting against Ajayi, no way. It's the criteria that I have beef with. It's a new era in football and workhorse backs tend not to get fed enough carries with any consistency. With Landry, he'll never be big or fast enough to be viewed as a Star.

    Last year made me a believer in Ajayi, but his college production is undeniably ridiculous.
     
  4. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    That was a poor article all the way around but I guess when you're struggling for clicks in the offseason that's the kind of crap that you've got to throw at the wall to so what sticks and what slides off. Most of that content is lying in a muddled puddle on the floor.

    The knocks on Landry are out of pure ignorance. I'm not even going to bother addressing his assessment on Landry's route running; it's foolish. And the claims that he doesn't garner double teams are garbage takes from someone who's never bothered to watch. There are two defensive calls that I know off in particular which the Patriots used to double Landry out of our 11 personnel packages. Cover 1 Duece is a double team call on the slot WR b/w the nickel CB and the SS, and Cover 1 Switch is another where the nickel CB aligns over the slot but takes the near back and the "money" LB and the SS are in bracket coverage over the slot WR.

    Landry might not be a fantasy football star in the sense that Brooks is touting but there's nothing "system" about him. Landry would excel in any current NFL offense.

    Just looking elsewhere after a quick scroll, Winston isn't going to be a star either. You are either an accurate QB or you are not. Like Newton, Winston is an erratic and inconsistent passer who's accuracy will not improve which is why he throws many frustrating passes and INT's.
     
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  5. gregorygrant83

    gregorygrant83 A True Fan

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    I would argue Newton is a star. He might not be one of the top qbs in the league, but when he takes the field all eyes are on him and people do gravitate toward him. He's one of the bigger names in the game, even if his play isn't always deserving. And he makes enough plays through the air or with his feet that defenses have to be geared toward keeping him in check. Winston is solid but I'm not sure he reaches Cam level. I actually have Winston and a pre-injury Teddy Bridgewater as being pretty equal. Cam can look average for 57 minutes and then beat you in the final three, sort of like Andrew Luck.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  6. multistage

    multistage Well-Known Member

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    Ajayi and Juice are simply system guys.

    Yeah, this writer can go **** himself for being a dumbass.
     
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  7. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I was just stating that Newton is an inaccurate and erratic passer not that he isn't a star in the league or a good QB.

    Bridgewater is a much more accurate passer than Winston. The accuracy point sticks out to me b/c it's not something that can be coached. There are other factors that can offset that skill, but you either are - like Tannehill - or are not.
     
  8. gregorygrant83

    gregorygrant83 A True Fan

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    I agree Newton and Winston can be very inaccurate. Any thoughts on why Andrew Luck % numbers are usually low considering he's a fairly accurate passed? Is it just a case of him trying to fit passes into small windows too often? Luck had a good year pasing in 2016 and had one of his best years comp % wise, but he's still sub .60% for his career. It's not like he makes a living stretching the field with deep passes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  9. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Photobucket now seems completely useless so excuse the Instagram video, but here are the two plays mentioned above that the Patriots use.

     
  10. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Well-Known Member

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    I almost went off on Jameis, pointing to our week1 matchup.

    But, dude, thank you for sounding off on this article. I needed to hear that...
     
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  11. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    This is also a false explanation for Pattern Match coverage as well in his breakdown of CB Casey Hayward.


    Zone is zone and Man is man, but Pattern Match is a both zone and man. It begins as zone until the recievers declare their routes, then once they do the defenders pick up their man. DB's are not watching the QB in this instance they are watching the receivers and more specifically for the routes to unfold and then locking onto a specific receiver in man coverage depending on the keys.

    Here's an example of Pattern Match coverage called Red Raider by Michigan DC Don Brown.



    Here's an even better example of Pattern Match. It's called Karate coverage and is used vs Empty formations where a "Kathy" technique is played to the 2 receiver side and a "Triangle" or "Box" technique is played to the trips side. Notice the amount of keys for each position and mainly the note at the bottom that calls for man coverage after routes are declared beyond 5 yards and the defender determines his reciever.

     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  12. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    Wasn't Joe Montana considered a "systems" quarterback? Same could be said for Tom Brady.

    Not sure what to think of that. If you run the "system" you are in to perfection aren't you a star player?
     
  13. finmann

    finmann Pro Bowler

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    You stole my thunder...isn't Tom Brady the biggest system guy on the planet
     
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  14. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Nah. Brady plays in a mutiple scheme offense. You really can't label him like Montana who played strictly in the the original West Coast offense.
     
  15. A500

    A500 Active Member

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    I really don't understand his thinking. He's saying Ajayi is a product of the zone blocking scheme. Zone blocking by the same oline that was rated in the bottom half of the league in run blocking and allowed less than a yard before contact.

    But who knows, maybe he is right and the only reason Ajayi did so well is because the zone blocking scheme made it easier to lead the league in broken tackles and run after contact
     
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  16. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs foos-ball is the devil! Donator

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    If Ajayi ran behind Dallas' offensive line he would have had 2,000 yards.
     
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  17. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Well-Known Member

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    "He has size and speed," an NFC scout told me. "But I don't know if there is anything special about his game other than he runs hard and has some pop in the open field."

    Ask him if he's ever seen anyone arm tackle him...
    SMH, he's going to be even better this year, from all the accounts I've heard.

    Landry has fire, no doubt, but Ajayi's pure will is impressive. His overtime scamper against the Bills and the way he got up, tripped, then got up again to walk away exemplifies what I mean by pure will. He wasn't concerned about the Bills player, he was possessed, eerie really.

    Jay entered the league supremely confident. His pressers were Al Davis-esque, "The greatness of the Jay!". He and Landry were very similar in that light. Never cocky, but never backing off their intentions to be great.

    Seemed like an endless barrage of answering questions about the bone on bone knee concerns coming out of college from our vulture media.
     
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  18. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    His numbers say different

    Passing plays that go for 25 or more yards
    2016...tied for 9th
    2015...tied for 17th...only played 7 games
    2014...tied for 1st
    2013...tied for 11th
    2012...tied for 3rd

    QB air yards...total distance that the football is thrown
    beyond the line of scrimmage to the point of reception

    2016...6th
    2015...28th...played just 7 games
    2014...5th
    2013...14th
    2012...5th
     
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  19. NY8123

    NY8123 Sophisticated Redneck Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    System guys? System guys...........what ****in' system? We haven't had a "system" in place for more than a couple years at a time so must be the "system" is that they can play in any system.
     
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  20. susser2000

    susser2000 A True Fan

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    Jarvis has been productive since he came into the NFL, Gase's system was just implemented last year. I could see his argument for Ajayi, but we've also only seen one year as the starter (not even a full season), but Jarvis is pure talent.
     
  21. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    This article really misses the mark. Ajayi broke more tackles and had more yards after original contact (first hit, I guess) than any other back. I'm sure he's helped by Adam Gase's scheme, but you can't teach the type of power he has.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
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  22. Dajesus

    Dajesus A True Fan

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    Man this article pissed me off. Jarvis Landry would be exactly where he is or better on any NFL team. First off nothing was handed to Jarvis, nor did the Dolphins expect him to be a star. He was drafted to be the 3rd WR, and just made it impossible for Miami to not focus on him. They drafted a 1st round wr to be the #1 guy the year after drafting Jarvis, and traded for Kenny Stills as well, but Jarvis outplayed everyone and made the coaching staff change their #1 WR to the slot guy. The other huge flaw in this idea is Jarvis hasn't been in the same system in his 3 years. How can a system guy be a pro bowler in consecutive seasons with 2 offensive coordinators, and 2 head coaches, who played completely different systems? Idiot!

    I will concede more on Jay, but again doesn't really add up. If he is a system guy why didn't Arian Foster, Damien Williams, or Kenyan Drake, have similar success in the same system? If you remember Williams and Drake got the first chance to win the job when Foster went down in New England. The other huge flaw is how bad our oline was at run blocking last season. You can't have a system guy when the oline is near last in the NFL at yards before contact. I don't think Zeke is a system guy, but its odd how he placed him #1 as not a system guy when he plays in the best run system in the NFL, as McFadden was a 1000 yard rusher the prior year in the same system, and Ajayai was in one of the worst run systems, but he is a system guy. Again...Idiot!
     
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  23. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Ajayi was top 2 in yards after contact and broken tackles. The **** is Bucky talking about?
     
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  24. Travis34

    Travis34 chea Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I enjoyed reading through the comments on the article more than the article itself....


    a lot of people mad about Dak in the system category lol
     
  25. rickd13

    rickd13 Scout Team

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    Yeah, I guess Marshawn Lynch was a system guy too then.
     
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  26. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    He had a great team I wouldn't call him a system guy yet but he certainly could be
     
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  27. NY8123

    NY8123 Sophisticated Redneck Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    I wonder if Dan Marino wsa a star or a system guy?


    Oh that's right he was a star and the system.
     
  28. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    There's no system that I know of that makes football players good at breaking open field tackles.
     
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  29. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    What Dak Prescott did as a rookie is very impressive. Unfair to call him a system guy. Very fair to say that he was surrounded by a great cast and had a lot of help from his coaches.

    But being put in a good situation and doing very well does not make someone a 'system guy.'
     
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  30. Eesti

    Eesti Rookie

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    Dak had a great and efficient rookie year but there have been several QB's in the recent past to come out and have great rookie years only to regress once defenses caught up to them. I want to see Dak do it again this year before I form an opinion on him. He hasn't faced much adversity either....multiple injuries on the o-line, change of coaches, etc.

    I don't know who is worse. Bucky Brooks or James Walker.
     
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  31. Travis34

    Travis34 chea Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Oh I agree. It's just hard for me to imagine rankings these guys after only one season... he was surrounded by a great team absolutely. How would he have fared had this been the Philbin led phins? Reminds me of russel Wilson, rookie starting out on a good team- mobile qb who can manage the game and lean on the running back. Obviously Wilson has become a pretty darn good passer, can Dak follow in those footsteps?
     

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