Statistical Evidence of Shoddy Coaching / Coaching Lost This Game

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Da 'Fins, Oct 20, 2003.

  1. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins FinHeaven VIP

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    Coaching Lost This Game

    First, I think this was a huge game as our season goes. We needed to be 3-0 against our division with two December games in Buffalo and New England. And we needed the AFC victory. It was a terrible game to lose. Inexcusable, imo. Especially, when we had so many chances to win.

    Say what we want about the inconsistent play of Fiedler and others (the OL is soft and a huge weakness), we would have won the game had Wannstedt not gone into a shell each time we got near the 20 in the 4th Q and then in OT.

    I have supported Wannstedt and I like him as a person, but he did NOT play to Win! He was afraid of losing. He played afraid.

    Going for a FG on 3rd down? If we had the ball on the 5 yard line, fine. But, from the same spot we had one blocked b/c Mare couldn't get the ball up? That was mindboggling stupidity!

    I'm sorry, he blew it. He needs to have the guts to shoulder the blame on this one. If he doesn't stand up at the press conference and say, "I blew it on this play, and our play calling was too predictable," then he's not being a stand up guy on this one.
     
  2. zach13

    zach13 Mad Dog

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    I would add to the above the handoff to Ayanbadejo on 2nd and 1 down near the goal line earler in the game. That is the time for RW, not to get cute with your playcalling.
     
  3. fin-atic

    fin-atic Are you a VIP? Finheaven VIP Donator

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    He really doesn't have much to work with. You have a high school QB playing behind a weak, limp noodle line. Your only real choice is to try and get it in the hands of your star athlete, Ricky.

    He is scared to let the QB throw it because he has a tendency to hit the other team with the ball.
     
  4. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins FinHeaven VIP

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    This is not the case, imo. Our stats on 1st down were absurdly atrocious and predictable. When we did throw the rare pass on 1st down, we were 7-9 for 102 yards, 6 1st downs and no INT's. When RW ran it on 1st down, we were 22 carries, 74 yards, for a 3.36 average. So, which was more effective?
     
  5. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins FinHeaven VIP

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    Statistical Evidence of Shoddy Coaching

    The ESPN quote posted in another thread made me take a closer look at this game. Here's what I found:

    Going into the game, the Dolphins ran the ball 65% of the time on 1st down (#1 in the league), making them a highly predictable offense, which New England both expected and exploited. And, we accomodated them nicely! I went through the play by play to see what we did in this game and here's the results:

    In this game, Miami ran the ball 22 out of 31 times (71%) on 1st down, an even higher percentage than their average going in (playing right into the hands of NE's game plan! Please!). They gained 74 yards for an average of 3.36 yds (it would have been worse if not for the OT, 18 carries for 53 yds - 2.94 yds a carry on 1st down! Unbelievable bad!!!)! Is that acceptable? Hardly. :fire:

    When they passed on 1st down, they were 7-9 for 102 yards with 6 first downs and no interceptions. Those are good stats for anyone! Why didn't they pass more on first down? Furthermore, we gained 20 first downs. After those 20 first downs, how many times did we pass the ball? Three (15%)! Is that predictable or what? I'm not saying we should pass all the time, but if you want teams to back off (as the coaches keep saying) - you have to pass when they expect run! We should have passed at least 40% of the time on 1st down, if not 45-50%. Definitely more after we got a 1st down. We Ran the ball 85% of the time after getting a 1st down! Come on! :fire:

    The Dolphins coaches played it extremely "close to the vest" and still lost! Is there any doubt we got out-coached? I am dumbfounded as to how these guys who are purported to be intelligent men cannot see this. Coaches around the league have to be laughing at this. I mean, Belichick has to love game planning for us since he knows exactly what we will do and we play right into his hands! It is inexcusable!

    31 first down plays:
    22 runs to Ricky Williams (71%!)

    1-10 - RW: 2 yrds. (Start of Drive - SOD)
    1-10 - RW: - 1 yrd.
    1-10 - RW: 2 yrds. (SOD)
    1-10 - RW: 18 yrds. (SOD)
    1-10 - Pass to Chambers - complete 11 yrds; fumble. (SOD)
    1-10 - RW: 7 yrds. (SOD)
    1-10 - RW: 0 yrds.
    1-10 - RW: 6 yrds. (SOD)
    1-5 - RW: 2 yrds.
    1-10 - Pass to Thompson - complete 17 yrds. (SOD)
    1-10 - RW: 3 yrds.
    1-10 - RW: 9 yrds.
    1-10 - Pass to McMichael - complete 22 yrds. (SOD)
    1-10 - RW: -1 yrd.
    1-10 - RW: - 4 yds.
    1-10 - Pass incomplete (SOD)
    1-10 - Pass to McKnight complete 16 yrds. (first pass play on 1st down after getting a 1st down on a previous play - i.e., not at the start of a drive).
    1-10 - RW: 3 yrds.
    1-10 - RW: 1 yrd. (SOD)
    1-10 - RW: 0 yrds. (SOD)
    1-10 - RW: 0 yrds
    1-10 - Pass to McMichael - complete 16 yrds.
    1-10 - Pass to Ayanbadejo 1 yrd.
    1-10 - RW: 1 yd.
    1-10 - RW: 4 yrds.

    OT:
    1-10 - Pass incomplete (SOD)
    1-10 - RW: 10 yrds.
    1-10 - RW: 13 yrds.
    1-10 - RW: 1 yd.
    1-10 - Pass to McMichael complete 19 yrds. (SOD)
    1-10 - RW: -2 yds.

    :yell: :yell: :yell: :yell:
     
  6. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    You're right, 100%. Wanny is a horrible coach, Bates is not much better, Armstrong is pitiful and Turner is unimaginative and overrated. This whole coaching staff needs to go.
     
  7. ZOD

    ZOD Ruler of the Universe

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    I actually believe that Turner has tried to be too imaginative.

    In the 4th qtr against Buffalo he gave it to Ricky the entire drive (unimaginative).

    In the 4th qtr against New England we got there exploiting the Harrison/Mcmichael matchup. If they compensated or made adjustments for Mcmichael, Thompson or Chambers should have been the mark. Turner went back to Ricky trying to keep the defense honest and avoid a turnover when we got within field goal range.

    No defense plays against the Dolphins with any respect for the passing game. Don't use your imagination. Use what they give you. They are giving us the pass. Take it.
     
  8. FinaticalOne

    FinaticalOne DieHard FinFan 4 Life

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    GREAT POST MAN!!!! I've been saying this for a while now. I started a thread last week about the play-calling on offense and everyone wanted to put the blame primarily on our o-line. Now I know our offensive line is not blocking well, but when a defense knows what your going to do on offense, you can have the best blockers in the world and the results would be minimal.

    I put more blame primarily on Turner. It's his job to keep the defense guessing and off balance. He's not doing that. Before we played the Pats we averaged running the ball on first down 65% of the time and what did Norv do against the Pats.........run on first down 71% of the time. C'mon that is absolutely RIDICULOUS!!!!!

    The thread I started last week was in favor of implementing the 3 WR set more into the gameplan to spread out the opposing defense on our running downs. CK Parrothead and I had a discussion on this last week and he said "they use the 3 WR set quite a bit." That is true, but Turner uses it mainly when it's 3rd and long. Of course you use it then, but you're not going to fool anybody with it, they know your'e gonna do it then. I watched that game closely on formations called on 1rst down and he went with that awful max protect at least 85-90% of the time. The first time he went with the 3 WR set on first down was half way into the 2nd quarter and you know what NE did?.........They called timeout because they wern't ready for something like that on first down.

    With an offensive line that is not blocking well, you cannot go max protect and allow the defense to bunch up, which is what I've been saying all alone and now Belichick just confirmed that is what he did against us in his post game comments. He is also quoted as saying "everybody knows what we're gonna do".......So true, so true.

    THERE'S A CHANGE THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE, AND IT STARTS W/NORV TURNER. I'm not saying replace him. He has to stop playing in a shell and spread the D out using a formation other then that stinking max protect.

    BOTTOMLINE.........He's too damn predictable and not just everyone knows it, but they are saying it in post game comments after they play him.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2003
  9. ZOD

    ZOD Ruler of the Universe

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    One post script to that last comment.

    If I was the offensive coordinator and had watched my QB throw three interceptions, I'd be a little conscious of the pass in field goal territory too.

    The Dolphins are who they are. They are not a passing team. Every defense we face tells us as much.

    3 interceptions from a rookie secondary. Professional receivers should not let that happen. Professional QB's should not let that happen.

    Get ready. The line of scrimmage will be stacked next week and the following week too.
     
  10. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan A True Fan

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    Re: Coaching Lost This Game

    That's been my biggest biiitch about Wannstedt. That playing not to lose attitude will bit you in the *** more often than not. But all of that PLUS the inability of the O to score (heaven forbid) more than one TD/gm !!
     
  11. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan A True Fan

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    Actually, that wasn't really a bad call. You do things like that when the whole world expects Ricky. unfortuantely, it just didn't work out. But did you notice an abundance of Ricky on 1st downs yesterday? (translation... lack of faith in our passing gm) but even so, we need to throw more on first down at least to give the d something to think about.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2003
  12. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan A True Fan

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    You are correct, however, the reason it was more effective was because they were looking Ricky. Had the Ricky/pass been more balanced on 1st, i doubt the results would have been the same.
     
  13. FinaticalOne

    FinaticalOne DieHard FinFan 4 Life

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    Hey ZOD, I'm not sure if you were responding to my last post or not because the threads got merged. I'm not saying go to a passing game, just use a different formation that would spread out the defense and run the ball, that would help our mediocre o-line out with the blocking scheme. And if they want to crowd the box while we are in a 3 WR set, then pass on them....like someone said earlier, "take what they give us". My solution is primarily to open up some holes in the running game that LBs and S had been pluggin' up because we allow them to crowd the box with the max protect formation. If we spread them out, they will have a much harder crowding the box on us and it will leave them vulnerable.
     
  14. PhinPhan1227

    PhinPhan1227 Why is there a watermelon there?

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    When quoting these stats, are you at ALL aware that a big part of the success of those 1st down pass plays was because the run had been committed to so strongly? The reason they tried the run, run, run, run, pass, was so the pass would be successful when they DID throw the ball.
     
  15. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan A True Fan

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    Using alot of different formations will screw with a Ds head as much as anything else. if we are constantly changing formations, you'll catch the D in alot of mismatches and if nothing else, they'll burn alot of tOs otherwise unnecessarily. How many WRs do we have? Use them, especially the speed guys. I know turner rarely uses 3 WRs sets but one formation that would open up things for Ricky is a 4, count'em, 4 WR formation, 2 spilt wide on either side of the field. That effectively eliminates most of their LB corp. ricky could do alot of damage to their dime pkg because we would basically have them even up on OL blocking since the safeties would be "cheating" back to respect the WR speed, especially if a pass or 2 was hit. If Ricky hits a draw, even if the middle gets plugged up and bounces outside, he's got good ydg before the rest catches up with him. And "theoretically, if one thing gets going the other will also. but we're falling back into the same ole same ole of the past several yrs....................becoming too vanilla and predictable...again. Like i was harping on last week after the win at Jax, this o hAS to step up and start putting points on the board cuz we can't expect the D to be there and be perfect everytime out. And we all know it came to pass and when it was on the O, they failed miserable......again.
     
  16. FinaticalOne

    FinaticalOne DieHard FinFan 4 Life

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    That's more of a reason to take what they give us. Did you see our success rate on 3rd downs yesterday. I remember at one point in the 4th quarter it was 1 for 9. That's because Turner wants to run on first down when the whole world knows we are going to do it, then we end up getting -3, -2, and 1 yd gains on first down setting us up for 3rd and long conversions. This kind of predictable play calling sets us up for failure and that's why are offense is not effective.
     
  17. ZOD

    ZOD Ruler of the Universe

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    Do you remember the last series of regulation that where 4 passes were completed for big yardage?

    They don't respect the pass.

    Ricky is not going to "blow up" until we have a 300 hundred yard passing game.

    The sad fact about that statement is we will lose the game on turnovers and it will change nothing in the way other teams line up against us.
     
  18. rhadaddy

    rhadaddy Who's your daddy?

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    I too was disgusted with the playcalling

    I really believe that we are one of the few teams, Carolina and Baltimore included, that needs to pass to open up the running game. It's an anomoly in the NFL, but we highly depend on the run to win us games and teams know it and respect it, so they do everything to stop it. It was unbeleivable how many times we were in second and 9. While NE were constantly in 2nd and short. All NE was doing was dumping of a pass to the flat every first down or a quick slant for five to seven yards. Very short high percentage passing. Certainly something Fiedler could handle. I got tired of them running ricky on first down cause he had no running lanes and I had flashbacks of Lamar Smith and his dancing in the backfield.

    Point is teams look for us to run ricky on 1st and 2nd down. So they run blitz us to clog up the lanes. It was obvious the mismatches that we could've continued to exploit with McMicheal on Harrison or Femi out in the flat for short gains. Hindsight is a
    b!tch, but damn the coaching and playcalling absolutely stunk. It was way too predictable and ineffective.
     
  19. FinaticalOne

    FinaticalOne DieHard FinFan 4 Life

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    You are exactly right. We are on the same page. Turner has to spread the defense out more, then we take what they give us.
     
  20. FinaticalOne

    FinaticalOne DieHard FinFan 4 Life

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    Here Here!!!!!
     
  21. rhadaddy

    rhadaddy Who's your daddy?

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    How will we lose the game in turnovers


    If you overuse ricky he's prone to fumble and given his ineffectiveness lately you almost certainly need to mix it up. It's no secret that you're not a big fan of mister "unmentionable" and I'm not either, but he's been here long enough for the coaches to know his strengths and weaknesses. He has great accuracy under twenty yards and sucks with deep out passes, great with bootlegs and rolling out of the pocket... Geez can't they use those positive attributes to his and the team's advantage? FEIDLER IS NOT A POCKET PASSER.
     
  22. Muck

    Muck Now completely imaginary Hammered

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    Tuner seems a little stubborn in that he's trying to fit square pegs into round holes. It seems we have the old Jimmy mentality of "we're going run "X". You know "X" is coming. We know you know "X" is coming. But we dare you to try and stop it".

    That worked well when Norv and Dave were running Jimmy's offenses and defenses because they had the players to do it. Here we have a mobile QB and an OL that is really struggling to functionally block. Teams are stacking the LOS and run blitzing. They line up 5 guys as down lineman and we still run and run and run. And the play action is nowhere near as good as it was last season. You'd think with all the running we do, we'd try and sell a playfake. Get Jay outside the pocket. Or start with some quick passing to the TE. Jay is adept at these things.

    At some point you have to adjust.

    I understand when Larry Coker and Dave Wannstedt talk about "we're not concerned with what they're doing. We're mainly concerned about what we're doing.....and executing it". Coker can say that because he has the best players in the country. We don't. And that means taking what the defense is giving you.

    I'm not worried about the defense. They played well enough to win yesterday. But it's high time the offense helps them out.
     
  23. FinaticalOne

    FinaticalOne DieHard FinFan 4 Life

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    :clap: AMEN :clap:
     
  24. M-REAL

    M-REAL "Another Battle, for the AFC East Title"

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    Great posts men! Agree the play-calling, for the most part sucked. I'm surprised on 2nd and 1 they didn't just run RW right up the gut, or even a QB sneak. Either/ or would've been effective enough for the first down. On Sports Jam live tonite, i wonder which Fin will arrive and have to explain what TF happened. If the coaches can't take the blame, in the player's heart of hearts they will have to.
     
  25. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins FinHeaven VIP

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    However, no team has this kind of skewed percentages - unless they are running well.

    If it's successful, you have to try it more. Furthermore, we had 3, count 'em, 3 passes after obtaining 20 first downs.

    And, all this requires is about 5 more passing plays on 1st down. That puts it at 14 passes, 17 runs - good balance, with an emphasis on running.

    Further, the more we pass on 1st, the more we keep them a little off balance.

    I think we need to throw in some high percentage pass plays (6-8 yard ins or slants or flares to the TE).
     
  26. MNFINFAN

    MNFINFAN Premium Member

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    Re: Re: Coaching Lost This Game

    You know what that has been a philosophy for more years than I care to remember, it preceded DW, didn't Olivadotti master the prevent defense?? It has become a facet of the Miami Dolphin's Character, we play not to lose games, maybe it should become our motto
     
  27. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Wasn't everyone on this forum bitching last year when Turner called 3 pass plays at the end of the NE game? The cry then was "Why don't we use our best weapon? This play calling sucks!"

    Now we run the ball and the cry is "Why are we playing not to lose? This play calling sucks!"

    The Dolphins will not be effective offensively until the line play improves, plain and simple. Those who think that NE was putting 8 in the box have to explain why Rodney Harrison was smacking WRs 15 yds down field.

    The Dolphins do not have the type of offense to win a shootout. They must keep games close and try to win at the end. As far as being outcoached, if Mare makes one of the two field goals, we aren't having this conversation.
     
  28. FinaticalOne

    FinaticalOne DieHard FinFan 4 Life

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    First, you need to go back and read the post game quotes of Belichick about stacking the middle w/an extra man on our running downs (1rst and 2nd downs). He doen't deny doing that.

    Second, there was some people comlaining about that series of play calling during the NE game last year when he called three straight passing plays. They had good reason to complain, as I recall, Ricky had over 180 yds that game, the running game was working so why abandon it when you need it most at that time?

    Third, the whole game yesterday, we could not get any positive yards on 1rst and 2nd down because they knew we were going to run. Going into the 4th quarter we were 1 for 9 on third down conversions, because Turner tried to run on first downs 71% of the time, as a result Ricky got stuffed every time and when 3rd down came around it was always 3rd and long (7 yards or more).

    Everyone agrees the line play has to improve, but it all starts w/Norv's play-calling as well. It's too predictable, and it doesn't matter who is on the line, if a defense knows what you are going to do, nine out of 10 times they will stop you.
     
  29. dolfan06

    dolfan06 FinHeaven Elite

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    Re: Coaching Lost This Game

    sorry, didn't see the game. went for a field goal on third down, in overtime.? thats nuts!:(
     
  30. FinaticalOne

    FinaticalOne DieHard FinFan 4 Life

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    They were clearly outcoached. I started threads about our underacheiving offense last week after a victory. I saw this coming a while back and it is starting to come to head. I hope our coaches get smart and change things up. I still have faith in them.
     
  31. lauderdale

    lauderdale Well-Known Member

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    Re: Coaching Lost This Game

    The call to go for a FG on 3rd down was a good one. If the new snapper has problems and the setup isn't correct they fall on the ball and try again on 4th down. Remember what happened last year in the 49er Giant game? Mare is supposed to be the best kicker in the NFL.

    I think the coaching has been awful and I think DW has lost us some games. However, Mare should have made the kick and only missed it by inches. Of course had Ricky gotten the ball on the goal line earlier in the game it might not have mattered.

    Also, I read somewhere that Griese was already getting a lot more snaps with the first team than other backup QB's in the league. I wonder if that is because Jay is/was hurt or if the coaching staff likes what they see from Griese.
     
  32. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    He also stacked the line in the last series against Mia last year.

    Because they chose to stack the line....

    For those of you who claim that we are getting stopped by 8 or 9 guys in the box.... check the stats. Of the tackles on Ricky near the line of scrimmage, 3 were made by safeties or CBs. Thats 3 out of 27! The rest were made by the Dline or LBs. check it out...

    (15:00) R.Williams left guard to MIA 22 for 2 yards (M.Chatham).
    (13:45) R.Williams right end to MIA 38 for -1 yards (J.Green).
    (11:08) R.Williams right tackle to MIA 33 for 2 yards (R.Harrison).
    (6:55) R.Williams up the middle to MIA 31 for 18 yards (A.Samuel).
    (2:17) R.Williams right end to MIA 43 for 7 yards (M.Chatham).
    (1:12) R.Williams up the middle to NE 47 for no gain (R.Seymour; M.Chatham).
    (12:49) R.Williams right end to NE 10 for 6 yards (T.Bruschi).
    (11:24) R.Williams up the middle to NE 3 for 2 yards (T.Warren).
    (8:35) R.Williams left tackle to NE 20 for 3 yards (J.Green).
    (7:27) R.Williams up the middle to NE 12 for 3 yards (T.Warren).
    (6:43) R.Williams left tackle to NE 3 for 9 yards (R.Harrison).
    (12:39) R.Williams left end pushed ob at NE 29 for -1 yards (E.Wilson).
    (11:18) R.Williams right end to NE 18 for -4 yards (M.Chatham).
    :)21) R.Williams right guard to NE 42 for 3 yards (T.Bruschi; T.Warren).
    (12:51) R.Williams right tackle to MIA 28 for 1 yard (B.Hamilton).
    (11:03) R.Williams right guard to MIA 10 for no gain (T.Warren; R.Harrison).
    (9:39) R.Williams up the middle to MIA 26 for no gain (R.Seymour; B.Hamilton).
    (5:17) R.Williams up the middle to NE 31 for 1 yard (M.Chatham; B.Hamilton).
    (4:28) R.Williams right guard to NE 21 for 10 yards (E.Wilson; C.Akins).
    (3:58) R.Williams up the middle to NE 17 for 4 yards (R.Harrison).
    (3:18) R.Williams right tackle to NE 18 for 4 yards (B.Hamilton).
    (2:33) R.Williams up the middle to NE 17 for 1 yard (T.Bruschi; T.Warren).
    (14:21) R.Williams up the middle to NE 33 for 10 yards (D.Klecko).
    (14:02) R.Williams right end pushed ob at NE 20 for 13 yards (E.Wilson).
    (13:32) R.Williams up the middle to NE 19 for 1 yard (R.Seymour).
    (12:49) R.Williams left guard to NE 17 for 2 yards (R.Seymour; R.Phifer).
    (6:49) R.Williams up the middle to MIA 45 for -2 yards (T.Warren).

    The fact is that the Oline is getting beat at the point of attack. Ricky is becoming more tentative as a result. I think it is time to shake up the oline. Bring on Dixon and McKinney. Ruddy looks awful! How many holding calls is this guy going to get?
     
  33. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    I just think its kind of funnythat norv got blamed last year for not running ricky and now he is getting blamed for running him too much!:lol: i do blame norv though. he needs to throw more on first down.
     
  34. FinaticalOne

    FinaticalOne DieHard FinFan 4 Life

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    WRONG WRONG WRONG.

    What are these stats trying to prove. You need to check those stats you posted again. I just counted 9 tackles by DBs out of the 27 you mentioned. These DBs included (S Rodney Harrison, S Chris Akins and CB Eugene Wilson). Rodney Harrison had 4 of those tackles by himself. You just made the presence of extra men in the box evident (thanks to your stats). The stats you just presented shows that the DB's made 1/3 of those takles at the line of scrimmage. Even if they only had 3 tackles (which we now know is not the case here), their presence in the box confuses blocking schemes and gives them quicker reaction time to pluggin' the gaps, they don't have to make the tackles, all they have to do is make sure Ricky has nowhere to run which is what they did all game.

    Belichick already admitted to crowding the line the whole game with extra men on first and second downs, so what is your point? And what do we do in retrospect.......run the ball 71% of the time on those downs.

    McKinney already had a chance to take over the center position, remember. It didn't go well.

    I am glad that Dixon is coming back too, and hopefully that should help our line out.

    I have faith in our coaches to make the changes necessary to be effective on offense, but these stats show that Norv is TOO PREDICTABLE on first and second down.
     
  35. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Please reread my post. I said only 3 were made by safeties or CBs NEAR THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE. I meant less than 4 yds.

    You can't possibly attribute a tackle by a CB or safety 10, 13. or 18 yds down field to 8 in the box.

    Have you ever seen such a high percentage of tackles by D Linemen?
     
  36. FinaticalOne

    FinaticalOne DieHard FinFan 4 Life

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    Hey FinFanInBuff, I didn't see the yds part on the tackle, so I stand corrected on that part. But I differ with you, because like I said earlier, those stats don't prove a thing. BTW, are those first down results? They look a little different than the ones we were already talking about on the first page.

    Belichick has already stated that everyone knows we will run on first and second down, so that's why he put extra men in the box on first and second, those are facts and cannot be disputed. And since that is the point that can't be disputed because he admitts it, the DB's don't have to make the tackles, the job is to plug every gap providing Ricky no where to run. That is all that has to be done. Do you understand that.

    Now I'm with you that are o-line is failing, but Turner's play-calling is hurting them more. We run the ball 65% of the time on first down, that is the facts and the whole NFL knows it. You know they will gear up to stop the run on first down and what did we do yesterday on first down? Run the ball 72% on first down. So tell me. Is Norv doing anything to help the offense improve? Hell no..:fire:

    Look at the first down results on the first page and you will see that being predictable has set us up for third and longs all game which set the offense up to fail. The changes that need to be made should start with Norv's first and second down play-calling because it is killin' us.
     
  37. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins FinHeaven VIP

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    Exactly.
     
  38. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins FinHeaven VIP

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    Re: Re: Coaching Lost This Game

    You are assuming we won't move closer or won't get a first down. The point I'm making is this: when we got to the 20, Dave just quit trying to go any further. He shut down the aggressiveness, became conservative on two no gain runs and then went for the FG. I'm saying, play the same way you did to get to the 20! I'm not saying don't run, but, on 1st down, do a play action (they were expecting run!) - try to get closer. Do a bootleg with a short pass. Or, go for a corner or post into the endzone to end it right there. Once they got there, Dave was worried about a mistake and put his trust in an unreliable situation. I could almost hear the announcer saying "Ricky for no gain" before the play even started.

    I don't care if Mare SHOULD have been able to make that. The miss at the end of the 4th quarter demonstrated the "iffy" nature of this - it was not your typical 35 yarder! He went too conservative and predictable at the end. Another point is this: Suppose it was a botched snap? Where would the ball have been? No closer than the 25, at best. That makes it a 42 yarder, still off the dirt and longer - plus puts NE in better position.

    Dave was trying to play it close to the vest - and he has done this in critical games every year he's been there - and it has backfired far too many times.
     
  39. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Those are all 27 carries. We'll just have to agree to disagree. When the dline makes all the tackles, I don't care if the cheeleaders are near the line of scrimmage.
     
  40. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins FinHeaven VIP

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    Re: I too was disgusted with the playcalling

    I agree wholeheartedly. This is exactly my point. The coaches keep crying about the "deep" passing game. But, that's not all there is to it. We just need to mix up the passes and runs. You are exactly right - Fiedler is VERY good at passes under 20 yards. He can have pinpoint accuracy at times. Hit some 5-12 yard passes that are high percentage. Then run Ricky on 2nd and 4 or 5 or even 6. Or, throw passes on consecutive 1st downs (if you hit one) then, run a draw!

    It's not rocket science. It's simple imagination.
     

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