Stop Assuming the FO knows more than us!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by MadDawg020, Apr 29, 2007.

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  1. MadDawg020

    MadDawg020 SmartGuy

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    I had to chime in on this after reading some of he ridiculous posts on this board saying we made the right decisions today. We didn't make the right decisions; we haven't made the right decisions over the last decade. The fact that our two best players in the present (JT and ZT) were drafted by Jimmy Johnson a decade ago is proof enough.

    So everytime any of us knowledgeable fans gives our opinion, stop with the ludicrous argument that, "The GMs and NFL Scouts know more than us...it's their job...blah blah blah." You know what, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt when they do something RIGHT for once. What reason has the Dolphins organization given us to trust them? Why should I believe they know more than I do?

    Let me put it to you this way. If we (and by we, I mean the knowledgeable fans who pay a lot of attention to this stuff) had been running the drafts for the last few years:

    1) We would have drafted Drew Brees instead of Jamar Fletcher
    2) Would've drafted Vince Wilfork + another player instead of moving up to get Vernon Carey
    3) Would've certainly drafted someone more productive than Jason Allen (can someone say Marcus McNeil who soooo many of us were clammoring for?)
    4) Would've drafted Quinn and Dwayne Jarrett instead of Ginn and Beck (which two would you rather have?)

    The only two picks I've agreed with (and that other knowledgeable Finheaven posters agreed with at the time) the last few years have been Ronnie Brown and Channing Crowder. And how's that workin out? So who's smarter now: the front office, or knowledgeable fans?

    We've all heard the saying: sometimes it's better to be on the outside looking in than the inside looking out? That's exactly what's happened here. Sometimes it's better not to know a certain draftee at the age of 13, because your less likely to draft "his family". Sometimes it's better that you don't just draft SEC players because you once tried to recruit them.

    You want us to trust you Miami Dolphins organization, then earn it; prove that you know more than us. Otherwise, why don't you trust US for a change?

    I should get a Pullitzer for this. :D
     
  2. Slappy8800

    Slappy8800 Breathing is the hardest thing to do.

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    waaaaah
     
  3. like2god

    like2god I LOVE FinHeaven

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    :sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol:
     
  4. insomnia411

    insomnia411 The world is yours

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    Like he isn't telling the truth...
    This team has made disgusting offensive personell decisions year after year and they continue to this day...
    **** Ted Ginn
     
  5. pb1300

    pb1300 Scout Team

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    Just another angry fairweather Fin fan. Instead of stating WHY we should of drafted Quinn and Jarrett, you state what this team, not managed by Cam/Randy, did in the past. Pullitzer...:sidelol:
     
  6. Dmarino110

    Dmarino110 Starter

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    while you continue to be a sheep.

    Cam is in miami for 1 reason. hes getting paid. he loves this organization for only as long as he gets paid. we on the other hand have to watch this ineptitude and wonder why he gets millions to make these decisions.

    all i see in this post is a person who for some reason believes that cam loves this team. he believes that cam loves this team more then the people that have been rooting for the fins religiously for the past 10-20-30 years. I see a Sheep.
     
  7. MadDawg020

    MadDawg020 SmartGuy

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    Wow, you just don't get it. You're the same person in Houston last year who would've wanted Mario Williams instead of Reggie Bush.

    Nick Saban said it best: There's a lot of people that go to medical school, but only a few become great doctors. There's only a handful of GMs (Pioli, Polian) that know what they're doing. The rest, unfortunately, don't know anymore than us. In fact, sometimes in trying to demonstrate their "expertise" and greater knowledge than the common fan, they pass on the popular pick just because of their own narrowminded opinions and ratings. That works great when you're Pioli; not so great for every other team.
     
  8. Dolfan1000

    Dolfan1000 Hall Of Famer

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    The title of this thread was laughable in itself.
     
  9. dreamwalker

    dreamwalker General Martian Army

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    Lets be truthful here
    ALL THOSE that thought Aaron Rodgers was going to go top five in the draft 3 years ago raise their hand...

    Now lets take a look at the depth chart
    http://www.nfl.com/teams/depthcharts/GB

    Wait that cannot be right...Anyone have a more reliable link than nfl.com? There is no way he could be 4th string.....

    Now how many thought that some teams made a mistake when they passed on him?

    I am starting to believe that maybe i was wrong- smith was a better choice than rodgers and maybe I was wrong thinking I know better than all those scouting departments that passed on rodgers.

    Besides according to all those that passed on quinn this year- he would have been a major reach at 9.
     
  10. McMichael

    McMichael Seasoned Veteran

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    ................

    OF COURSE they know more than us.. that's why they're coaches and were average joes.

    you forget miami plays in the AFC

    Miami plays in a very hard division within the AFC. we share the division with a team that won 3 superbowls just recently.... we also play the colts, jags, steelers, and chargers on a regular basis.

    were not the cleveland browns playing against crappy teams. its hard for us to win
     
  11. DolfanDonny

    DolfanDonny Starter

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    Cam will get paid millions to COACH the team...it was clear that Randy made the final decision (as it should be with most GMs).

    Moreover...I would EXPECT you'll be submitting your glowing resume TOMORROW for the vacated Front Office positions once Cam and Randy are both fired for their 'ineptitude...'

    Cam's excited about what can be, and I, for one, am excited for him and our fans who will SUPPORT this team...


    Go FINS - '07
     
  12. pb1300

    pb1300 Scout Team

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    I could care less what you see. Ive been reading all this nonsense on the board for hours now, about how good Quinn is, how bad Ginn is, how we should of had Jarrett and Quinn instead of Ginn and Beck, how Beck is to old, etc. But out of ALLLLLLLLLLL those posts, I did not see ONE (1) post explain why. Maybe you could do that for me. Maybe you can explain why Quinn, who some had rated below Beck, was a better choice for us than Ginn? Maybe you can explain why Quinn and Jarrett would be better than Ginn and Beck, when (like I said earlier) some had Beck rated higher than Quinn, and MOST had Ginn rated the second best WR in the draft? Maybe you can explain why it was a reach to take Ginn at 9, when he could of been had in the late teens, but its not a reach to take Quinn, who could of been had late in the first round? And try to answer those with some facts that you have seen, not what you have read/heard from the so called experts out there. :shakeno:
     
  13. MadDawg020

    MadDawg020 SmartGuy

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    Why would I want Quinn and Jarrett instead of Ginn and Beck? I'm gonna save this thread and pull it back up in 3 years when Beck is 3rd string and Ginn is returning punts for a living. And you know why I know that's gonna happen? Because that's why Cam drafted him! He said so! To be a punt returner! How great is that, a punt returner at #9? Sounds like genius to me.
     
  14. eomdtbtr

    eomdtbtr Starter

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    I'll take Ginn, and Beck over Quinn, and Jarret...
     
  15. HybridPHIN 23

    HybridPHIN 23 the N E W Dolphilbins

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    worst title ever
     
  16. MadDawg020

    MadDawg020 SmartGuy

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    You want an explanation: Quinn put up better numbers against better competition than Beck did. He's been in a pro-style offense with Weis the last 3 years, so he is NFL ready made. Beck played form the shotgun most of the time. I'll give you that he didn't play well in his bowl games...but how many times did Peyton Manning beat Florida?

    And Ginn...when you're own coach identifies you as a punt returner instead of a #1 WR, something is wrong. Period. Plus, he's a track star, not a WR. He's gonna bumped at the line, he won't go over the middle. He's the kind of guy you draft in the 2nd round, not at #9. Dwayne Jarrett, meanwhile, has been so clutch in so many games his entire college career. Screw the combine stats, he's not fast, all that junk. In important games all throughout college (all his bowl games, that 4th down play against ND), he's been unguardable.

    There's your explanation. I will pull this thread up in 3 years. Believe it.
     
  17. Slappy8800

    Slappy8800 Breathing is the hardest thing to do.

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    lets see quinn's numbers in those bowl games....he doesnt have samarzdja to catch his bad passes anymore
     
  18. phinfreak

    phinfreak Well-Known Member

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    You must be a genius eh?

    Just what is the criteria that defines "knowledgeable fans"?

    Based on what firsthand experience or any experience do you assert having any shred of rational expertise?

    Geez, how come Wayne Huizenga didn't hire you as head coach?
     
  19. bigchub22

    bigchub22 Starter

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    this website makes me laugh sometimes even the thread title was just plain silly and stupid oh man and im not saying i agree with everything that happend today but thats just nonsense
     
  20. Dolfan1000

    Dolfan1000 Hall Of Famer

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    And yet, he BURNED Michigan CB Leon Hall, who some called the best CB in this draft, despite this inability to beat press cverage.

    Oh wait, I guess your argument is somewhat off.
     
  21. Slappy8800

    Slappy8800 Breathing is the hardest thing to do.

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    lol screw the fact that jarret cant beat any CB i the NFL...so what?
     
  22. MadDawg020

    MadDawg020 SmartGuy

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    Oh you're right. I mean Jerry Rice had terrible combine speed. I guess he couldn't beat any CB in the NFL either, right?

    Forget the fact that Jarrett dominated everyone with two different QBs throwing to him in his college career. That's not important.
     
  23. Slappy8800

    Slappy8800 Breathing is the hardest thing to do.

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    Hello kettle
     
  24. tcdrover

    tcdrover Pro Bowler

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    Yeah, this is the worst post I've ever read here in all the years of my coming to this board.

    The funny thing is, I'm sure that this guy hasn't even seen ONE entire game by either Quinn OR Beck. They interviewed Beck at least three times, but I'm sure they gathered absolutely no information in that process. :sidelol: :lol:
     
  25. MadDawg020

    MadDawg020 SmartGuy

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    Actually, I've seen numerous ND games (1 in person), and 2 of Beck's games. So don't put your ignorance on everyone else buddy.
     
  26. pb1300

    pb1300 Scout Team

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    Yeah, Quinn was awesome in college. Man those big games against Stanford, North Carolina, Army was awesome. Oh wait, I forgot about that tough road game at Navy and Army last year. Oh, but I cant forget about those big time loses to Michigan, or USC, or LSU. Please, lets not get into the overhyped talk from Weis about being in a pro style system. Oh and I guess Quinn's 3426yds/32td/7int/61% comp is so much better Beck's 3885yds/32td/8ints/69$ comp huh? Manning wouldnt have fallen to 22 BTW.

    As for Ginn, you have a guy that has playmaking speed, something this team hasnt had in such a long time. Playmaking speed not only at wideout, but also during special teams. That gives us another dimension this team lacks. So yeah, Id much rather have Ginn than another Booker on this team. And most people had him going from 7-12, while having Jarrett going in the second round, but hey you are entitled to your opinion. :lol: Just make sure you "pull this thread up in 3 years"
     
  27. MadDawg020

    MadDawg020 SmartGuy

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    Yeah, and there was no way Marino would fall to 23 either, right? And you're so quick to point out Beck's stats...notice I said against better competition. You care to tell me who BYU played?
     
  28. NJL52

    NJL52 Seasoned Veteran

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    Regardless of where I stand on the Quinn/Ginn situation, what you said is absolutely ridiculous....

    You just stated that your weakly based(espn, nfl network) beliefs are superior to hundreds and hundreds of career football professionals beliefs simply because you guessed somewhat correct on like 2 decisions.

    Think before you post....
     
  29. Dolfan1000

    Dolfan1000 Hall Of Famer

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    I'm sorry, but you just proved your entire post to be incorrect.

    Are you telling me Randy and Cam have seen less than 2 of Beck's games? You can be sure they have seen every one of his snaps since high school. Twice. So there goes your theory.
     
  30. pb1300

    pb1300 Scout Team

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    I didnt point out his stats to make a point, Im pointing them out to counter your point. You said he put up better numbers against better comp, which I dont agree with. Quinn did NOTHING against the better teams in the country. Beck had, if Im not mistaken, the second highest QB rating in the country. Now Im not a big stats person, but I saw him play the Utah State game, I saw him againt Utah, and Wyoming, and maybe those teams arent LSU or USC, but they are still D-1 schools, and I saw a better QB in Beck. I saw a more fluid QB, a more accurate passer with a better arm, and a smarter QB. Quinn might be a better running QB, but Beck is at least equal in every other category. You'll see that in three years. Have you even seen Beck play, or just go by what you've heard of him today?
     
  31. MadDawg020

    MadDawg020 SmartGuy

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    Dude, just because you watch a lot of games doesn't mean you evaluate people properly. You think the people who evaluated Tim Couch and Akili Smith and Cade McNown didn't watch a lot of their games? Of course they did. But that doesn't mean they no diddly about their prospects in the NFL.
     
  32. Dmarino110

    Dmarino110 Starter

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    i support the team, this does not mean i have to support its leadership and its inept decision making.

    In order to be a real fan you must never ever ever question a decision made by the coach. if you do you are not only a bandwagon fan but a communist. i smell lots of sheep ...BAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
     
  33. MadDawg020

    MadDawg020 SmartGuy

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    First of all, I mentioned a lot more than 2 decisions. And second, if you knew anything about football and watching some of the perennially deplorable teams like the cardinals and lions, all it takes is two decisions to set back your franchise like 10 years. Manning over Leaf was one decision. And that's exactly what's happened here. You don't think taking Brees would have completely altered the course of this franchise? Or taking Quinn now as opposed to, at very best, a guy who may be as good as Joey Galloway?
     
  34. NYPhinFan

    NYPhinFan FinHeaven VIP

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    I can honestly say the dumbest thread I have ever seen on this board...hands down not even close. Just let it sink in..."stop assuming the FO knows more than we do"..mind boggling...simply mind boggling. I guess I am more qualified to do your job(whatever it is) even though I have not recieved any training..have no idea what you do...and have not even studied what it takes to do your job...just assume that I know your job better than you do...Doctor...Lawyer..Teacher...DOES not matter. You just assume that because you went to school for these things...been at it for dozens of years..studied your craft everyday...means that I am not more qualified? Where to begin?????:shakeno: :shakeno:
     
  35. pb1300

    pb1300 Scout Team

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    You just proved my point about this board. Everyone here wants to be critical of the Ginn pick, but most havent even seen Beck play. How can anyone on this board evaluate someone when they dont even watch them? Since you have been to numerous ND games and have seen Beck play twice, does that make you an expert? Does it make me an expert that I have seen Beck and Quinn play a lot? No it doesnt. All this nonsense today comes down to people having a hard on for Quinn cause he is the "sexy" pick, but yet no one really knows exactly how either of these two are going to pan out.
     
  36. MadDawg020

    MadDawg020 SmartGuy

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    Wow, small idea from a small mind. You're probably the same person worshipping Saban cuz he wrote a book about being a coach, eh? How'd that turn out for ya?

    And I'd like to see the great genius degrees these front office people have gotten that you speak of. All that great training to draft Jamar Fletcher.
     
  37. pb1300

    pb1300 Scout Team

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    How do you know that? How do you know that Quinn wont turn into Leaf, and Ginn wont turn into Holt? Because you have watched them play? Be careful, dont contradict yourself.
     
  38. Colorado Dolfan

    Colorado Dolfan Horror Marked

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    Or taking Ginn now as opposed to a guy who may be as good as Joey Harrington?

    Seriously, two sides to every story... The FO was not sold on Quinn. Even though Quinn's QB coach from ND is now the QB coach for the 'Phins... Go figure... :shakeno:
     
  39. thecoordinator

    thecoordinator A True Fan

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    carry on in your denial dolfan homers. our draft today was a circus. ginn is great, but we have needs, none of which were met. no, not even with their "oh **** the fans are trippin' out, we better get a QB fast" pick of john beck in the 2nd round. then, we took an interior lineman when we clearly need someone that can play on the outside. finally, lorenzo booker? don't even try to explain that one...
     
  40. MadDawg020

    MadDawg020 SmartGuy

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    Honestly, what's the best that Ted Ginn could become...Joey Galloway? Anyone see him as more than that, honestly?

    Meanwhile, honestly best case, Quinn could be a franchise QB, correct?

    Just from a simple risk/reward standpoint, how can you defend the picks?
     
  41. NYPhinFan

    NYPhinFan FinHeaven VIP

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    You have every right to be disappointed in this draft..every right. When you say you know more than people who have studied hours upon hours of film,done face to face interviews with these people,have legions of scouts who have broken down each player..you sir are truly LOST. MY mind is big enough to know that your theory is based solely on anger and disappointment. You don't have the slightest idea the work and time that goes into the scouting and research of every player. Your idea that you know more is almost criminal. :shakeno: :shakeno:
     
  42. MadDawg020

    MadDawg020 SmartGuy

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    You're missing the whole point bud, just like everyone else. It's not about knowing MORE, it's about getting it right. There's a huge difference. I have no doubt these guys work hard at what they do, but you tell me, how many first day picks have our draft "gurus" gotten right in the last 7-8 years? Not more than 30%. Meanwhile, franchises like the colts, patriots, ravens, etc. continue to get 70-80% right every year, getting pro bowl guys, or at least starters, almost every year. Meanwhile, you look at some of our picks...Yatil Green, J.J. Johnson, Abdul-Jabbar, Fletcher, on and on and on....you tell me why I should believe based on these results that they're "knowledge" helps them get it right any more than me?

    I bow down to guys like Pioli and Polian. But not our guys...
     
  43. pb1300

    pb1300 Scout Team

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    Who was Steve Smith when he came out of college? Can you tell me what type of player he was, or what he was projected to be? No you cannot, nor can you tell me that Ginn, at best, will be a Galloway, where as Quinn, at best, could be a franchise QB. Quinn, like Ginn, has flaws in his game that can be corrected, but decision making and accuracy are things that normally cant be corrected (see Daunte). Ginn is an inexperienced wideout, and route running can be a fixable issue, and Ginn has gamebreaking abilities, which he showed in the championship game, while Quinn had his issues in big game situations. Now here are my opinions of the two, but Im not proclaiming one is going to be better than the other, or one is going to be a Galloway and the other a franchise QB. There is just no way that you, like so many others on this board, proclaim that Quinn is so superior to Ginn and that he was the better pick for the Fins.
     
  44. NYPhinFan

    NYPhinFan FinHeaven VIP

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    I think the title of your Thread is the problem.
    If you would have stated this opinion first..alot more people would agree with you and I would be one. Yet when you state that that "we" know more than the FO does...it takes away from your arguement. Have we drafted well in the past few years..no way!. Does that mean that some laymen off the street would do a better job?...lets be realistic. You have every right to have little faith in thier judgement...track record has been iffy at best. Yet I would never assume no matter how much I love football..research it..view it...that I would know someone elses job better than he would.
     
  45. pb1300

    pb1300 Scout Team

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    Mueller and Cam havent been doing this for 7-8 years, they have been doing it for a day! Like you, I would LOVE to have Pioli running this team, but going by Muellers drafts in the past, Im confident in what he can do for this team. I will agree with you about what this team has done wrong in the past few years, but you have to be fair and let them have more than a day to evaluate what direction they put the team in.
     
  46. MadDawg020

    MadDawg020 SmartGuy

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    But now you're just getting into semantics. I define knowledge as being based on results, not just knowing for the sake of knowing; that gets you nothing, as we've learned. It's like getting grades. If some guy keeps getting C's and D's in a class, you conclude he isn't very knowledgeable about teh subject matter correct?

    That's the same situation here. The FO has been getting C's and D's the last decade, yet people still wan't to believe that they are knowledgeable in what they are doing. I don't care about effort, just like teachers don't care about how long you study. It's about results, and as such, how can we reach any other conclusion other than they are NOT knowledgeable?
     
  47. pb1300

    pb1300 Scout Team

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    You pretty much want to blame Clinton's mistakes on Bush (present), Bush's (past) mistakes on Clinton, etc. How can you blame a front office who hasnt been around this organization long enough to help create or destroy it? Mueller had NO decision making last year under Dictator Saban, and this is Cams first offseason with us.
     
  48. craig

    craig Well-Known Member

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    I myself like the picks,esp ginn and beck! Hope this thread is brought back in 3 years..you cant include a career ending injury,so only if they play and have the chance to...Ill bet beck becomes a decent game manager and ginn turns out to be a game changing WR. The dude is fast and he get some experience ,hes gonna score points and blow by people... mark my words.(barring injury ,that puts them out of football) So put me down as one of the happy ones on draft day 07 .
     
  49. Psychosikes

    Psychosikes Ninja

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    MadDawg, I happen to agree with you. While GMs and coaches have a lot of access to the players and people around those players, they also have their personal biases and are succeptable to a lot of misinformation. Do we know more? No! Does anyone really belive that you were saying that we KNOW more? God I hope not. Do our hunches work out better than the FO's based on our ability to look at film and not at 40 times... and our ability to use common sense and deductive reasoning? Sometimes sure, and I think that is really what you were saying.

    Remember when saban was god and could do no wrong? Well, until proven otherwise, Cam n Randy are also dieties. As is Ginn and Beck and Satele and Booker and every new fin has ever been and ever will be. That's what makes fans. That is also what makes sheep. Next year, assuming we lose more than we win, all of the fans standing in line to stroke Candy's junk will crucify them... and you can bring this thread back :)
     
  50. Mogwai

    Mogwai Seasoned Veteran

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    Though aspects of this thread are a little ridiculous, there is one valid point to be made here. Assuming that people who hold a certain title always know best is a dangerous way to think. It just is. With our own history we're very familiar with the fact that experience and training dont always amount to intelligent, perceptive choices
     

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