Stop investing in Complementary pieces.. | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Stop investing in Complementary pieces..

Yes but if you need players at multiple positions you don't leave better players on the board just to chase a qb or linemen because they aren't "complimentry" players. I could maybe see saying the focus should be on finding an elite qb and solidify the lines, but I just don't believe in saying you stop investing in outher positions until you fill the trenches and qb.

Who said anything about stopping altogether on players? Paying someone like Landry 14mil is INVESTING in a complementary player
 
Who said anything about stopping altogether on players? Paying someone like Landry 14mil is INVESTING in a complementary player

The title of the thread os "Stop investing in complimentry players" is it not?
 
I get what the OP is saying here and I don't disagree, but at the same time I think you acquire talent and top tier talent whenever you can no matter the position. The problem however is I don't think Landry is the talent he thinks he's worth. There are only a few Wr's I'd spend that kind of coin on, but he isn't one of them.
 
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Ironically the first thing I notice is how piss-poor the AFC is right now...but more importantly....

You could also find that there is a monster correlation with Points Per Game Defense...

Pitt : 11th
Patriots: 5th
Titans: 19th (worst)
Chiefs: 15th
Jags: 4th
Ravens: 6th

Eagles: 2nd
Vikings: 3rd

Rams: 12th
Saints: 14th
Panthers: 13th
Falcons: 7th

So, while I agree with your premise...there is another story here that I think is more easily correlated and more telling. Only one team in the bottom half of the league when it comes to PPG Defense made it into the playoffs, the Titans (somehow). So, it's safe to assume if you can't get to at least that level of proficiency on defense (top half of league in PPG) you aren't going to make it to the playoffs, or you aren't going to make it very far.

Now let's dig in another layer....the four teams from the Conference Championship Games represent the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th best ranked Defenses (as it pertains to PPG) in the league. That is not a coincidence. Don't let situational play fool you, there was only one elite QB represented in the Championship Games this year...Tom Brady. The others vary from bad to good to very good depending on who you're asking.....Tannehill could easily fall in that wide, wide range.

So while we certainly need to be at worst good in every category on your list...the most glaring correlation here does not lie with the arguable and subjective trench play, QB play, and coaching contributions....it's simply defense, as it always has been and as it always will be.

If you're top 5 in defensive PPG, just looking at 2017 you have an 80% chance at getting into playoffs. This year? If you were top FIFTEEN you got in with a 73% clip.

This is a telling story, and it's a reminder that teams trying to build contenders through offense are going to be constantly treading water. I hope our staff realizes this and continues to relentlessly search for tone-setters, and game-changes on the defensive side of the ball. That is money well-spent.
 
The list of super bowl winning quarterbacks the last 15 years tells me Miami needs to swing for the fences to find a dynamic, elite quarterback. Here's the list.

Super Bowl 51 --- Tom Brady
Super Bowl 50 --- Peyton Manning
Super Bowl 49 --- Tom Brady
Super Bowl 48 --- Russell Wilson
Super Bowl 47 --- Joe Flacco
Super Bowl 46 --- Eli Manning
Super Bowl 45 --- Aaron Rogers
Super Bowl 44 --- Drew Brees
Super Bowl 43 --- Ben Roethlisberger
Super Bowl 42 --- Eli Manning
Super Bowl 41 --- Peyton Manning
Super Bowl 40 --- Ben Roethlisberger
Super Bowl 39 --- Tom Brady
Super Bowl 38 --- Tom Brady
Super Bowl 37 --- Brad Johnson

That list contains a number of quarterbacks who will end up in the Hall of Fame. There are a few that stand out as not really belonging, including Joe Flacco and Brad Johnson. Also, it was a diminished Peyton Manning that won with Denver.

So, I think there are really two ways to win the super bowl. One is to have an elite quarterback. The other is to have an amazing defense.

Seems to me that a great quarterback gives you a bigger window of success. It's hard to keep the defensive pieces together as long.
 
Sigh...I don't you read the post in its entirety.

Can/have the Patriots make/made the playoffs without Gronk or Cooks contributions? The answer is clearly YES! Why?

I'll challenge you this way...If those teams you mentioned don't have at least decent pieces in place at the QB, OL, DL etc spots. Then what the hell are Hill and Kelce and Thielen and DIggs etc going to do bring a playoff berth to their teams?

Hell, I'll ask you the same question another-way..Weren't all of those players you mentioned above playing for their respective teams years prior? Where were the playoff berths?

Wait, so all you’re saying is that consistently advance in the playoffs all we Need is Tom Brady? Thats genius! Lol I hear u dude on the trenches, but it’s not so easy finding a great qb. I am a proponent of drafting one every year though, u never know if u are going to catch lightning in a bottle..
 
I hear you on Ertz+ Jeffrey. But those players aren't the make or break of getting you into the post-season. I think it goes without question... Miami investing Landry money into 2 quality lineman or competent coaching staff etc would have more impact than investing Landry money into Landry.

Alshon Jeffery just signed a big deal.
 
I hear you on Ertz+ Jeffrey. But those players aren't the make or break of getting you into the post-season. I think it goes without question... Miami investing Landry money into 2 quality lineman or competent coaching staff etc would have more impact than investing Landry money into Landry.

Also the coaching staff cost has no bearing on a players contract. Coaching staff is all ownerships money, no salary cap implications.
 
Ironically the first thing I notice is how piss-poor the AFC is right now...but more importantly....

You could also find that there is a monster correlation with Points Per Game Defense...

Pitt : 11th
Patriots: 5th
Titans: 19th (worst)
Chiefs: 15th
Jags: 4th
Ravens: 6th

Eagles: 2nd
Vikings: 3rd

Rams: 12th
Saints: 14th
Panthers: 13th
Falcons: 7th

So, while I agree with your premise...there is another story here that I think is more easily correlated and more telling. Only one team in the bottom half of the league when it comes to PPG Defense made it into the playoffs, the Titans (somehow). So, it's safe to assume if you can't get to at least that level of proficiency on defense (top half of league in PPG) you aren't going to make it to the playoffs, or you aren't going to make it very far.

Now let's dig in another layer....the four teams from the Conference Championship Games represent the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th best ranked Defenses (as it pertains to PPG) in the league. That is not a coincidence. Don't let situational play fool you, there was only one elite QB represented in the Championship Games this year...Tom Brady. The others vary from bad to good to very good depending on who you're asking.....Tannehill could easily fall in that wide, wide range.

So while we certainly need to be at worst good in every category on your list...the most glaring correlation here does not lie with the arguable and subjective trench play, QB play, and coaching contributions....it's simply defense, as it always has been and as it always will be.

If you're top 5 in defensive PPG, just looking at 2017 you have an 80% chance at getting into playoffs. This year? If you were top FIFTEEN you got in with a 73% clip.

This is a telling story, and it's a reminder that teams trying to build contenders through offense are going to be constantly treading water. I hope our staff realizes this and continues to relentlessly search for tone-setters, and game-changes on the defensive side of the ball. That is money well-spent.

That’s why I want Derwin James.
 
That’s why I want Derwin James.

No matter where he plays on the field, Derwin James is going to make a defensive unit better immediately. Day one.

Jared Cook isn't putting up 100+ yard game if James is on him.
 
The list of super bowl winning quarterbacks the last 15 years tells me Miami needs to swing for the fences to find a dynamic, elite quarterback. Here's the list.

Super Bowl 51 --- Tom Brady
Super Bowl 50 --- Peyton Manning
Super Bowl 49 --- Tom Brady
Super Bowl 48 --- Russell Wilson
Super Bowl 47 --- Joe Flacco
Super Bowl 46 --- Eli Manning
Super Bowl 45 --- Aaron Rogers
Super Bowl 44 --- Drew Brees
Super Bowl 43 --- Ben Roethlisberger
Super Bowl 42 --- Eli Manning
Super Bowl 41 --- Peyton Manning
Super Bowl 40 --- Ben Roethlisberger
Super Bowl 39 --- Tom Brady
Super Bowl 38 --- Tom Brady
Super Bowl 37 --- Brad Johnson

That list contains a number of quarterbacks who will end up in the Hall of Fame. There are a few that stand out as not really belonging, including Joe Flacco and Brad Johnson. Also, it was a diminished Peyton Manning that won with Denver.

So, I think there are really two ways to win the super bowl. One is to have an elite quarterback. The other is to have an amazing defense.

Seems to me that a great quarterback gives you a bigger window of success. It's hard to keep the defensive pieces together as long.

Here are what these quarterbacks were considered at the time they won the SB.

Super Bowl 51 --- Tom Brady - Elite
Super Bowl 50 --- Peyton Manning - Not elite
Super Bowl 49 --- Tom Brady - Elite
Super Bowl 48 --- Russell Wilson - Not elite
Super Bowl 47 --- Joe Flacco - Not elite
Super Bowl 46 --- Eli Manning -Not elite
Super Bowl 45 --- Aaron Rogers - Elite
Super Bowl 44 --- Drew Brees - Elite
Super Bowl 43 --- Ben Roethlisberger - Not elite
Super Bowl 42 --- Eli Manning - Not elite
Super Bowl 41 --- Peyton Manning - Elite
Super Bowl 40 --- Ben Roethlisberger - Not elite
Super Bowl 39 --- Tom Brady - Not elite
Super Bowl 38 --- Tom Brady - Not elite
Super Bowl 37 --- Brad Johnson - Not elite

For those keeping score 5 elite, 10 not elite.

Then there is this little fact. No QB has EVER led the league in passing and won the SB in the same year. If Brady wins next week, it will be the first time in the history of the SB. In addition, the three greatest seasons by a QB are Dan Marino - 1984, Manning - 2004, Tom Brady - 2007. None of them won the SB during those seasons. Finally, Both Roethlisberger and Brady won SBs at a higher rate before they became elite (although Brady may break that trend this season).
 
Here are what these quarterbacks were considered at the time they won the SB.

Super Bowl 51 --- Tom Brady - Elite
Super Bowl 50 --- Peyton Manning - Not elite
Super Bowl 49 --- Tom Brady - Elite
Super Bowl 48 --- Russell Wilson - Not elite
Super Bowl 47 --- Joe Flacco - Not elite
Super Bowl 46 --- Eli Manning -Not elite
Super Bowl 45 --- Aaron Rogers - Elite
Super Bowl 44 --- Drew Brees - Elite
Super Bowl 43 --- Ben Roethlisberger - Not elite
Super Bowl 42 --- Eli Manning - Not elite
Super Bowl 41 --- Peyton Manning - Elite
Super Bowl 40 --- Ben Roethlisberger - Not elite
Super Bowl 39 --- Tom Brady - Not elite
Super Bowl 38 --- Tom Brady - Not elite
Super Bowl 37 --- Brad Johnson - Not elite

For those keeping score 5 elite, 10 not elite.

Then there is this little fact. No QB has EVER led the league in passing and won the SB in the same year. If Brady wins next week, it will be the first time in the history of the SB. In addition, the three greatest seasons by a QB are Dan Marino - 1984, Manning - 2004, Tom Brady - 2007. None of them won the SB during those seasons. Finally, Both Roethlisberger and Brady won SBs at a higher rate before they became elite (although Brady may break that trend this season).

I would include Wilson and EManning as 'not elite.' And (gasp) Big Ben - top, but not elite. I'm in a minority, but most of the Pats success is BB. Yes, TOP QBs are important, but QBWINS? Nope
 
I would include Wilson and EManning as 'not elite.' And (gasp) Big Ben - top, but not elite. I'm in a minority, but most of the Pats success is BB. Yes, TOP QBs are important, but QBWINS? Nope

I agree.

I am specifically referring to how they played at the time they won their SBs. Big Ben was efficient, no doubt, but elite? No. QBs that pass for less than 200 yds per game are not elite. In 2005, Pitt was last in the league in pass attempts. They were #1 in the league in rushing attempts. In 2008, he had 17 TDs and 15 INTs. Not elite. Not even very good. Pitt had the #1 defense that season.
 
I agree.

I am specifically referring to how they played at the time they won their SBs. Big Ben was efficient, no doubt, but elite? No. QBs that pass for less than 200 yds per game are not elite. In 2005, Pitt was last in the league in pass attempts. They were #1 in the league in rushing attempts. In 2008, he had 17 TDs and 15 INTs. Not elite. Not even very good. Pitt had the #1 defense that season.

By my count, that's 7 elite QBs in the sample, with 4 being Brady (BB).
 
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