Tannehill's college gametape tells me were not using him correctly

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by phinatic1399, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. phinatic1399

    phinatic1399 Diehard Phinatic!

    Joined:
    Dec 2008
    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So last night I was watching some college gametape of Tannehill on youtube. After watching over an hour of film I came away thinking that this kid is extremely athletic and has a tremendous sealing just like all the scouts and experts like mayock and dilfer say he does. But what I also noticed is that most of his success came from outside the pocket and he benefits from his ability to use his legs. I also noticed how gifted of a runner he is and how successful he was running that zone read spread offense. He took it to the house several times off that zone read fake handoff and some of the runs were 30-40 yards long. Look at the game against oklahoma state when he takes it 65 yards off that zone read. That is how he should be used, out on the edge, playaction, bootlegs, zone reads, use his athleticism. We actually have been running some zone reads the last few weeks and they have been some what successful, tanny actually scored a TD against the patriots off a zone read. We should be doing what the 49ers and skins are doing with kapernick and rg3. No, not to the full extent like they do it but we should be playing to the kids strengths and using his mobility and legs. The kid ran 4.5/40 he can definitely scoot. Wilson is used like this too. They get him out on the edge alot.


    But my point is were trying to force him to become a pro-style QB and he is not ready for that yet. He is not ready to be under center and take 3-5 step drops and get rid of the ball. That is not his strength yet plus he doesnt have the weapons to help him yet. Sherman keeps calling plays that dont fit his strengths. I'm so sick of seeing tanny under center and dropping back with no playaction or bootlegs. Sherman rarely calls plays to get him out on the edge where he is dangerous. I eventually do believe he will be able to adapt to a more pro-style dropback scheme but he will never be a tom brady or manning, he is more in the mold of an aaron rodgers. I just feel like were not using him right. I dont undersatnd why his athleticism is not used in the redzone more as well. 1st and goal im calling a playaction bootleg and getting tanny out on the edge and giving him the pass/run option, instead sherman calls a run on first and second down and then the defense knows whats coming on third down. But I just think were not using the kid right. Love his high sealing though. And remember. Tannehill was NOT drafted on what he can do right now. He was drafted on potential and a high sealing, he is not as polished as luck, rg3, and wilson. He is still raw be patient.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2012
    miamiron likes this.
  2. SoCal Finatic

    SoCal Finatic FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Oct 2010
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I agree completely! It makes me wonder why we don't see him on bootlegs or roll out screens. My guess is that our O line is not athletic enough to block for him if he moves around, hell they can barely hold back a flood while he's standing still.
     
  3. phinatic1399

    phinatic1399 Diehard Phinatic!

    Joined:
    Dec 2008
    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    0
    makes no sense bro
     
  4. ANUFan

    ANUFan A True Fan Donator

    Joined:
    Jul 2010
    Messages:
    7,965
    Likes Received:
    135
    Trophy Points:
    63
    See. RG3 most recent out of the game hit. I don't want my Qb using his legs as much as his arms! I'd rather they get him some weapons to avoid him running around.
     
  5. phinatic1399

    phinatic1399 Diehard Phinatic!

    Joined:
    Dec 2008
    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I didnt say he has to be used to that extent but we need to take advantage of his mobility and get him out on the edge more. He is not a pro-style QB just yet.
     
  6. Mr. Day

    Mr. Day Starter

    Joined:
    Aug 2005
    Messages:
    1,642
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    38
    This is the NFL. That means that defensive players are very fast. Very fast defensive players destroy quarterbacks that run willy nilly all over the place. Think about the number of times that Michael Vick has gotten hurt. RG3 has gotten banged up a lot more than Andrew Luck. Tannehill was running away from players that will not be playing football again in their lives after college. Everything that players do in college cannot be replicated in the pros.
     
  7. phinatic1399

    phinatic1399 Diehard Phinatic!

    Joined:
    Dec 2008
    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    0
    He needs to be used like Aaron Rodgers witht the playaction bootleg thats all Iam saying and were not even doing that. And will it kill him to once in a while sprinkle in a zone read play?
     
  8. finitis23

    finitis23 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2009
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I'm thinking that maybe they used this season to work on the things that Tannehill needs to develop (like throwing from the pocket & decision making from the pocket). Philbin & his staff probably saw this year as nothing more than a developmental year for Tannehill. I mean, it makes sense to use this season do make Tannehill a more complete QB, since we don't have enough talent to make signifigant noise in the playoffs. Tannehill is already a gifted athlete & has probably been running zone reads & rollouts for most of his QB life, so maybe the coaching staff figured that this year can be used to just get a head start on developing the things he hasn't had much experience with.

    I know, it's exteme optimism, but hey if this was the logic for them using him the way they are- then I could get behind it.
     
  9. Geordie

    Geordie A True Fan

    Joined:
    Apr 2010
    Messages:
    1,837
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Maybe we should employ one of his college coaches to help with the play calling...oh wait !
     
  10. ANUFan

    ANUFan A True Fan Donator

    Joined:
    Jul 2010
    Messages:
    7,965
    Likes Received:
    135
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I agree about him being used like Aaron Rodgers. But come on man part of the reason those PA work so well for Aaron Rodger and GB is because they have legitimate threats.
     
  11. betadog

    betadog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2010
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The glaring difference is that Rogers can thread a needle with his passes. So far Tannehill's accuracy is back and forth. Not saying I don't agree but the success of running the same type of plays would be different due to skill set.
     
  12. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 2006
    Messages:
    6,416
    Likes Received:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    0
    After almost every game I watch I am left wondering why we do not effectively use screens and the bootleg to maximize RT's abilities.Especially in the Redzone, a playaction (stretch play) bootleg where RT has a run/pass option would be an effective play that is severely under utilized in this offense.
     
  13. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    15,209
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yeah, it's hard to imagine that Sherman, his HC in College (for 4 years) and OC now, would know any more of how to use him that a Phins poster.

    Sorry but C'MON MAN, no way in hell can you be taken seriously.
     
  14. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    15,209
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Have you considered looking at the athleticism of the OL? Just a thought, past Pouncey.
     
  15. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

    Joined:
    Jul 2008
    Messages:
    52,375
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    Trophy Points:
    113
    i would agree with a lot of that...off my tape study last year predraft his ability to throw on the move with paste and accuracy really stood out...and he could do it rolling both to his strong and weakside...something many qbs cannot do...throw while rolling to their weak side with touch and accuracy...

    he threw in the pocket 18 yard comeback routes with ease which tells you his arm is plenty good enough and he's got the arm to make any throw...

    what stood out to me on college tape was his over the top vertical accuracy was not all that there although i attributed a lot of that to having slow scrubs to work with on the outside like jarrett and his pocket play and decision making from the pocket was a little suspect...

    i'm happy to report though that all those things thru week 13 have not been an issue...if anything he needs to climb the pocket against wide rush pressure and become a little more accurate on some of his throws down the field...both of which i believe will get better in the next few years...

    his decision making and the quality of it has by far been his best attribute...the kid does not throw the ball into coverage...he'll keep you in games and in time he'll be winning most of them too...just need some patience people
     
  16. finjim

    finjim Banned Hammered

    Joined:
    Jan 2004
    Messages:
    4,502
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think IIFRC he has run 2 bootlegs on the goal line and scored BOTH times.
     
  17. Mogwai

    Mogwai Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 2006
    Messages:
    6,986
    Likes Received:
    86
    Trophy Points:
    48
    It's difficult to say his former college coach isn't using him as properly as he was used in college. I understand wanting to use that great ability he has to throw outside of the pocket, but I think a concerted effort has been made to keep him in the pocket and learn to be better at it. That's what this is for him, a learning year.
     
  18. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

    Joined:
    Jul 2008
    Messages:
    52,375
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    Trophy Points:
    113
    bootlegs are about seeing on tape a de crashing down to the inside off run action and running down things from the backside when you run stretch and off tackle...they don't work when a de stays home and doesn't respect the action to the opposite side...so you have to be careful when you go to them...you also need a running game that the opposition really respects and must compensate for...of which miami does not have...

    that said there's a lot of things this oc could be doing to give the qb more options and put him in better position to succeed than we've shown thru 13 games...i can tell ya that
     
  19. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

    Joined:
    Jul 2008
    Messages:
    52,375
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    Trophy Points:
    113
    that's a part of the problem also...you need move players and tackles that can cut in space
     
  20. phinatic1399

    phinatic1399 Diehard Phinatic!

    Joined:
    Dec 2008
    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    0
    @3rd and inches. Thats exactly what I'm talking about.
     
  21. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

    Joined:
    Dec 2005
    Messages:
    9,643
    Likes Received:
    304
    Trophy Points:
    83
    You mean like he has used Bush in the passing game?
    or getting the ball in Millers hands?
    Or having Fasano's ypc dropping over 6 yards per catch over last season?
    or another offensive line guru for over 18 years and have no clue with our own offensive line
    not having any creativity to get into the end zone via a pass
    or his questionable play calling(to numerous to mention)

    No,Sherman hasn't proved to me and many others here that he's nothing more than "vanilla at best"
    with this offense

    He may have been his coach in college but if he doesn't wtfu he'll be unemployed...again
     
  22. gdiaz0358

    gdiaz0358 Rookie

    Joined:
    May 2007
    Messages:
    1,407
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I know our running game has been bad lately, but can you imagine how much Tannehill would benefit from bootlegs and rolling out on fake handoffs? I think we are forcing this kid to play a style of QB which he isnt. I see this a lot in college, and the person to blame is the coach not the player...you cant force players to be something theyre not. We need to use this kids tools and adjust to make him shine with what hes good at. until then, he will struggle.
     
  23. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 2005
    Messages:
    7,794
    Likes Received:
    225
    Trophy Points:
    63
    That was a great closing summation. Pure roll outs are not nearly as effective in the pros compared to college. Far too often you are merely cutting off half the field on yourself. You can see it in the quarterback's face when that happens. The design is blown up and he's stuck. He wanders the extra step or two. He knows he shouldn't force it back over the middle but that's the only thing available, other than winging it to the sideline or over everyone's head.

    It's very similar to screens in that respect. With wide hash marks and terrorized unsophisticated defenses, college offensive coordinators can make a living on cheap screen passes and roll outs. Take it up a notch and those plays are often wiped out. I'm not surprised when they are shocked by it and can't adjust in the early going.

    I found out about roll out variance from college to pro in that stats office where I worked for a few years. It was a cupcake job but very enlightening. Frankly, when I was invited to visit I thought I'd be telling them everything. Turned out it was shared enlightenment. The pure stats guys knew angles from a pure strategy standpoint that I had never thought of, while they knew very little about stats related to wagering. I ended up leaning over the shoulder of the sharpest most descriptive guy in the room. He pulled clips of roll outs in pros compared to college. It took perhaps 45 seconds to make the point.

    If we drafted Tannehill based on roll outs, that wasn't especially brilliant.

    However, I did talk to one of my old buddies from the stats office about a month ago. He called after finding out my father died. We chatted for a while and he mentioned a few new developments. One has been hinted at in this thread. Play action off stretch plays is proving extraordinarily successful right now, with well above average completion percentage, yards per attempt, and burst plays. We used to call them burst in that office ("Burst on 12" meant big play unfolding on monitor 12). I guess Billick defines them as explosive plays for his toxic stat. Anyway, my friend says the play is most lethal if the quarterback bounces back into the pocket after the stretch fake, not if he rolls outside. Brady had a long touchdown pass last night on that play. Obviously the better the play action fake the higher the upside. Tannehill should spend countless hours in the offseason working on extending the ball effectively and bringing it back.

    BTW, Robert Griffin is a fascinating case study of whether or not he's being used correctly. I can't stand the guy. Let me put that out there. He's definitely performed better than my biased expectation. Shanahan installed an offense that's brilliantly designed to use Griffin strengths and frustrate NFL defenses, while at the same time exposing Griffin to all the weaknesses and dangers, like poor pocket awareness and inability to avoid the big hit. In evaluating Griffin toward the NFL I never expected we'd see him in an offense like that. Pure roll of the dice. I'm not sure Shanahan would have done it in his younger years. Right now as an older coach with a notoriously impatient owner Shanahan knows he has to produce otherwise he's out the door. A few weeks ago I couldn't believe what I was hearing when Shanahan said he'd use the remainder of the season for evaluation purposes. What? Snyder won't tolerate that, not after such an investment in Griffin and fan frenzy in the region.
     
  24. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    15,209
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    My post was on Sherman's knowing how to use RT. Nothing to do with your reply on others.
     
  25. 1972fins

    1972fins Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2011
    Messages:
    428
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    RGIII is on his way to becoming another Vick, This kid isn't going to last long if he keeps running the way he has.
    I think he's out for his next game.
     
  26. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 2006
    Messages:
    6,416
    Likes Received:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    0
    To run boots and screens on a regular basis like Houston and GB yes but to run them a few more times a game for us it doesn't matter. DE's crash hard on us because there is zero threat of a bootleg or screen. If we were to have that threat it would help slow down the pass rush a little and open up a little more running room.
     
  27. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    15,209
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Think Sherman is doing this to look bad, and get a higher draft pick? LOL
     
  28. footsteps_falco

    footsteps_falco Damn SugarBowl Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2010
    Messages:
    2,150
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    They are not coaching with the mindset that the year is completely developmental or a wash. Every year is a developmental year, that's the game. Every year is one to try and win as well though. Coaches weigh how much time they need to work on:

    what works vs what they need to work on

    I think that practice time is where developing happens, where they experiment.. i can't imagine coaches using what isnt a players strength in a game just to give developmental reps, that's what happens in practice am i right?
     
  29. Bofin

    Bofin Starter

    Joined:
    May 2006
    Messages:
    649
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    We ran some screens recently with some success,, against san fran,,, it was stunning cause we have been sooooo baaaad at them. rg3 is gonna be damaged permanently if he continues to get hit like he has this season,,, thought his dang knee might dislocate on that hit, your qb can't take hits like that, he must slide. the rules are in place to protect qbs and the qb must use them to his advantage.
     
  30. Third Eye

    Third Eye Scout Team

    Joined:
    May 2007
    Messages:
    1,181
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Another Vick? Not so fast bro. The difference is RG III has a brain in his head. And that alone will carry him to a terrific career.
     
  31. Third Eye

    Third Eye Scout Team

    Joined:
    May 2007
    Messages:
    1,181
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    38
    What's funny about this thread is everyone seems to miss the real case study that's out there. Harbaugh benched Alex Smith for Colin Caepernick. Caepernick is doing for the Niners what Tannehill should be doing for Miami.

    Harbaugh knows the upside with Smith is only so high, even with a gaudy QB rating. As a coach he now opens up the play book for many more options. Case in point the pistol read for a 50 yard icing TD last Sunday. plays like this only solidify the decision for Harbaugh. Because deep down he knows, even with a gaudy QB rating, that Smith would have gone 3 and out in the same situation, up 20-13.

    We can only blame Sherman for this because he didn't have the foresight to ease Tanny into the NFL with a playbook that doesn't force Tannehill to be Tom Brady.
     
  32. Third Eye

    Third Eye Scout Team

    Joined:
    May 2007
    Messages:
    1,181
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    38
    This is spot on analysis. Just screaming for rollouts is not generally effective in the NFL. Agree the field is cut off and options become limited. Play action off stretch is huge and Houston for one has lived off it this season. Having an athletic line and a back like Foster surely helps.
     
  33. Da GODfather

    Da GODfather Well-Known Member Donator

    Joined:
    Jun 2007
    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
  34. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

    Joined:
    Jul 2008
    Messages:
    52,375
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    Trophy Points:
    113
    kaepernicks already been exposed belichick is gonna do even more of that this week...shell coverages on the back end...

    kids gonna be the reason the 9ers go home early this postseason
     

Share This Page